It's time to..........

[Flaptail]

Wall off Mexico. Billion dollar smuggling trade routes. Mexican army personnel providing cover for drug smugglers. Illegal immigration putting a strain on our Welfare systems. MS13 the largest and most powerful gang ever known in the US. Mexican military regurlarly crossing into the US despite a buffer zone. What the F*&^ is Bush waiting for? Screw El Presidente' Fox, no more looking the other way and being taken adavantage of. And for that matter with Canada now saying we cannot send our subs through "their"territorial waters to patrol the artic seas put one up there too. Might as well get used to the idea that's what the world is coming to. From now on it should be America First!

[BigFish]

I agree...if we don't take care of business now.....we may not be able to later!

[Nebe]

i think its time to legalize it

use the tax $$$ for better education and open everyones minds to the madness that goes on in the name of greed.


this world is F-ed up

Flap we need to fish sometime and bitch about bush

[spence]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

What the F*&^ is Bush waiting for?

The Hispanic vote

-spence

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by spence

The Hispanic vote

-spence

Spence hit the nail on the head. You didn't see Clinton addressing the problem either - nor do you see any Dem's pushing real shut-offs now. They are all afraid of losing the votes of the fastest growing population in this country.

We need guys on both sides of the aisle to get some guts and address this head on together. Throw out all criminal - illegals ("crim-aliens" as one of my favorite conservative talk show hosts calls them) and cut the flow off 100% now.

Instead we have Massachusetts using your tax $$ to pay for the education of illegals there. Give me a break!

I think Senator McCain is the best choice to get this job done.

[Pete_G]

This country is isolationist where it shouldn't be and isn't where it should. Close the borders...

[scoobe]

If they are all kicked out expect to see much higher prices for the produce grown in this country. Paying legal workers will mean higher prices, no doubt.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by spence

The Hispanic vote

-spence

Damn you Spence i have to agree with you on this one! There's no question about it. This is one of the few things i dissagree with W on. The Hispanic vote yes, and he will be grilled as a racist. Just look at the minutemen down there trying to patrol the border and help out. They are ripped apart by Hispanic groups and called racists on a daily basis.

But, the Dems will never do anything either. They would be even worse on the border issue. They'd probably open 'em up and let eveyone come in! I believe W is sending more border guards down soon. Its something, but it really wont help the overall situation much.

That worker exchange program could be a good idea...sounds kinda risky but it might be worth trying. But if the borders arent shut it makes no sense i guess to go ahead with that.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Nebe

i think its time to legalize it

use the tax $$$ for better education and open everyones minds to the madness that goes on in the name of greed.


this world is F-ed up

Flap we need to fish sometime and bitch about bush

Please Nebe no smoking that funky stuff. You scare me enough when your not smokin the wacky stuff!

[chris L]

has any president EVER address the mexican border issue ? NO
thats why its as bad as it now . sure they will window dress it but the only thing a politition wants to know about mexicans is "do they do windows and will they take care of their snot nosed kids . while we send our kids to war in far off border disputes and democracy in countries that have no idea what it is anyway .
its just another rep and dem failure towards the American citizen .
granted they come here and do jobs NO American would do for the money .

"smoking that funky stuff" he must be smoking that mexican stuff .

[Raven]

Originally Posted by JoeP

. Throw out all criminal - illegals ("crim-aliens" as one of my favorite conservative talk show hosts calls them) and cut the flow off 100% now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK here's a MAP of the USA proportionally with Massachusetts copied and pasted into the state of California 10 times
and there's room for a couple more ...I did this to give you
some perspective of HOW BIG california is... for those that have never been there i think its difficult for them to comprehend it's size.

[Raven]

Among the members of the board i have a unique perspective in that i've worked side by side with illegal aliens.... day in and out for many years ok... i understand them perfectly... i have even smuggled them to L.A. too, many years ago.... just to get by....it was either that or starve. I've had a hard life you might say. but I'm a tough old bastard.
I've raised my shotgun in the air and fired it sending twenty or more
on their way too! when i discovered their camps at maximum risk to myself, but
not knowing them (at all) i couldnt take the chance over night.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
there is no friggan way to eliminate the use of illegal aliens in our present day agricultural system because it is to reliant on them for the planting and harvesting of the crops. If we did it would cause a much bigger problem than we already have...although i agree with some of what Jay Severin says... he's clueless as are many democrats in massachusetts as to how dependant we are on them
to work in the fields harvesting our food crops each year because Americans simply won't do the job's themselves. Most Americans are to lazy to grow even a single tomatoe bush ....

[Raven]

the reason the drugs are such a lucrative buisness is because of their
illegal status... which bumped up its intrinsic value almost ten times.
in the early 70's you could buy an ounce of marijuana for 10 bucks
in sandiego california. Now that price has escalated to $100 -$ 500
depending on what it is... but it's the same old crap.

So if you legalized it.....you let all the air out of that profit baloon
and then its simply not worth smuggling anymore. Now i dont suggest we do that with all drugs.... just marijuana... because it's less harmful (compared to tobacco for one and safer than alcohol too when your behind the steering wheel)
than the media or government will admit and then that will again open the doors to the growing of the non- drug variety hemp for fiber, paper , tons of by products....
and most importantly bio deisel production from the oils found in the seeds themselves. The taxes applied to its sale would easily pay off the national debt in no time... we have the tobacco model to use for its control and regulation...
all the other drugs i think should remain illegal. the borders need
attention because of terrorists entering america...not mexicans.
they are more resourcefull than americans ...the imigration (known as the meegra) would
round them up and take them back to mexico and the next afternoon they'd be back with big smiles on there faces. its just way too easy.

[ThrowingTimber]

An imposed tax woud be like imposing a tax on folks who grow tomatoes in their home gardens. Very hard to keep track of everyone growing, difficult to tax, and if the tax was voluntary no one would pay it any ways. Dont go getting all pissy about drugs guys, if the demand were'nt HERE the product would not be moving. Not saying its right just expressing a dif. view. Carry on.

[spence]

Raven, we both know the solution to illegal immigration is in carbon fibre nano-technology

-spence

[Raven]

when you replace steel with something ten times as strong
with a much thinner diameter then you can make many new things.
the mexicans are the most ingenius race of people on earth next to the japanese....and both have belief systems that hold back their progress...but thats their history. The problem is....were not making the terrorist situation their problem. if we made finding terrorists the M13 gangs buisness (with rewards) then no terrorist would dare set foot in america.

personally i get really fired up as you may have noticed about this whole issue..mainly because they lump to many things together
into a shepards pie that eventually becomes to complex to discuss rationally.

They desperately need to divide and conquer the individual problems. YOU say pot it becomes drugs you say drugs it becomes
the smuggling at the border you say border it becomes an issue of terrorists entering America and then it goes round and round like water going down a toilet never to be seen again....

[SBASS1]

Before the current fences went up the illegal workers went home to mexico. It was that easy to get in and out. Now with the fences and the cost to get into the country (ie. smuggling or a walk thru the desert) The Illegals STAY HERE! That is why we have the problems that we do...

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by ThrowingTimber

An imposed tax woud be like imposing a tax on folks who grow tomatoes in their home gardens. Very hard to keep track of everyone growing, difficult to tax, and if the tax was voluntary no one would pay it any ways.

But How many americans actually grow there own tomatoes, most go to the supermarket to buy them. They don't want to take the time, or have the patience, to do that.

Take beer for example everybody can make it tax free at home, but most people would just rather run to the packy and pick up a case....and pay the tax in the process.....than to take the time to make it themselves.

The tax would have to be mandatory, and knowing the government, it would be. Just like it is on Alcohol, tobacco, and Gasoline.

Unfortunately Americans are always in a hurry to be lazy.

[Raven]

but the demand isnt going anywhere....

its here to stay...it's human nature ...not politics..
unless your gonna electroprod ( ECT electroshock)
the the whole population into compliance....
for every bad habbit they have.
theres more americans addicted now to prescription drugs
than illegal ones.... we've become a country of druggies
and the farther we move away from self -agriculture the worse
we'll get.
Soon they'd be saying
hey ya know ...you fish too long! too hard !and to often......


christ thats the mentality if a replacement drug doesnt work...
if you dont believe me...heres a link to being electroshocked for
snoring no less...
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadge...per-039824.php

better fences are not the answer..either really
because they'll find a way...
just look at the cubans making boats out of pickup trucks...
that willpower is unstopable

electronically though we might be able to authenticate
people to the point we can achieve some control

but like a suggestion (proposed idea) i just read about....i was horrified
to contemplate this...concerning barn yard animals
being retrofitted (implanted) with a rfid tag so that proper identification
(theyre doing it with pets and cars and cell phones)
of all fowl could be controlled due to the threat of the bird flu
to which we have little or no resistance to.

we'll all have these tags implanted if this goes on.
we are already numbered!
with a SS tag
a phone number tag
a drivers license tag
a license plate tag
.a boat registration tag
....so whats next.... the body tag?

[Pete_G]

Sometimes Howard Stern makes a lot of sense. His solution is to shoot illegal aliens crossing the borders. You have to admit it would discourage most. Once word got out about a few shootings the border crossing would slow right down. Then again, Cubans risk their lives to get here all the time.

I'm just kidding btw, for the most part....

[Raven]

i can just imagine the mexicans joining up with the muslims
to kick our ass....we wouldnt stand a chance....
glad you were only kidding...
they just want to be able to earn a living...is all.
not blow up the usa and kill americans

and their own country's government
is too blind
to figure out how to do that....
and it's right in front of their faces too....
makes me ill to even think about it.

[SAXATILUS]

So if you legalized it.....you let all the air out of that profit baloon
and then its simply not worth smuggling anymore. Now i dont suggest we do that with all drugs.... just marijuana... because it's less harmful (compared to tobacco for one and safer than alcohol too when your behind the steering wheel)

Raven for President

[cheferson]

Working in restaurants my whole life ive worked with many hispanics,some legal, and alot that were not. I have no problem with them working in my country legal or not. After talking to them about their diffucult journey here to the states, i have even more respect for them. Theres a great documentary on this called Chasing El Norte. You wouldnt believe what they go through-gangs robbing them, raping there women, the amount of $$$ paid to smugglers to get them accross the border. All they want is a better life for there families and them selves. Then once here there paid sub-standard wages for menial jobs most LAZY americans want nothing to do with anyway. If i had to chose between working with a bunch of lazy american high school kids or illegal hispanic workers, id take the hispanic workers every time. Americans work ethic is non-existant. One of my best friends is hispanic, he came here illegally 9 years ago and started work as a dishwasher. Now he is a sous-chef at a busy gourmet market/deli, speaks fluent english,has a family w/2 kids, has 2 cars, and now is a legal american citizen and pays taxes. Also i fail to see how illegal imigrants tax the welfare system? Ive never known any illegal hispanic that got ANY public assistance. Most hispanics ive known personally work 2-4 jobs, pulling 100+ hours a week.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

But, the Dems will never do anything either. They would be even worse on the border issue.

Given that Bush has done nothing, while 9/11 was supposed to have "changed everything"...

...I really can't imagine the Dems doing worse.

-spence

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by spence

Given that Bush has done nothing, while 9/11 was supposed to have "changed everything"...

...I really can't imagine the Dems doing worse.

-spence

I guarantee you that if W came out and said i want to build a fence on our border the Dems would go nuts....they are oh so predictable!

[MoroneSaxatilis]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

Sometimes Howard Stern makes a lot of sense. His solution is to shoot illegal aliens crossing the borders. You have to admit it would discourage most. Once word got out about a few shootings the border crossing would slow right down. Then again, Cubans risk their lives to get here all the time.

I don't think it would make a difference, Pete. I've fished (for scallops) with many Mexicans, and they tell me that they are already dodging bullets from THIER side of the border in order to get here. On the way home one trip they were watching a Mexican-made español movie on DVD which had a scene depicting this exact thing. They told me it was not rare.

[Swimmer]

The illegals who work at various jobs in Massachusetts and probably elsewhere use phony social security numbers and/or the owners of the businesses they work for use them in an attempt to make the illegal employment look legit. They have taxes taken out of thier pay checks just as we do and sent in to the DOR by the company owners. Eventually that money must get sent back to the company owner after the DOR figures out that the SS #'s are phony. I had someone explain to me exactly how that happens, but I can't recall the terms the DOR guy used. So no taxes get paid on what Mr. Brazilian or Mr. Mexican earns. When they get laid off they cannot collect because the SS #'s used are no good. They never get overtime like we do because if they complain they get fired. They cannot collect after getting fired because they have no social security number. I have dealt with a number of very nice Brazilians illegals who had no idea about overtime. After I explained overtime to either the person I was talking to or a Brazlian interpreter they all went back to the restaurant and talked to the owner. I don't know what happen but I got a visitfrom someone I knew who asked me to mind my own business. My reply wasn't polite. I keep in my business different forms of ID and one of them is pay stubs to put in my reports. The person who asked me to mind my own business asked me for the pay stub back. Guess what? F H. So while we all complain about the illegals we all support them too. We just had some people buy a gas station in the town I work and I don't believe anyone of the new owners have a license to drive in this country even though they all have a vehicle registered to themselves. They paid 1.4 for the station. At least thats what the total mortgage was taken out for. How lilleagls are treated is much the same way our decendents were treated. But the difference is we were hear legally. Its a huge mess that I don't see getting any better. I admire the people who do the citizen patrols though.

Hey NEBE when someone invents the marijuanalyzer you might find some states willing to legalize.

[MoroneSaxatilis]

Originally Posted by Skip N

I guarantee you that if W came out and said i want to build a fence on our border the Dems would go nuts....they are oh so predictable!

I'm WAY more Jackass than Elephant and I'd have NO problem constructing an Imperatrable Wall with ARMED Watchtowers around the entire country. I'm serious.
Probably the only difference between me and some Reps, is that I'd be willing to raise taxes to pay for it rather than cut fuel assistance and medical benifits.

[Raven]

that would be like trying to stop people entirely from going to
all of the new england seashore....could they errect it....yes
would it stop us ---absolutely not.....
i'd steal what ever i had to
to drive right through it
and so would you....
so it doesnt make any sense to
talk fences....its hog wash...
still...it keeps getting proposed.
rediculous
the mexicans are growing weed
in our national parks now instead
of importing it... remove the profitability
and end of smuggling.... and there's only
one way to do that.
prohibition wont work anymore than it
worked for alcohol...look at the violence
that went on while alcohol was illegal.
Just heard a story ( RUMOR has it) that
twenty dudes at Bose just got fired as all of them
were using the same social security number.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by MoroneSaxatilis

I'm WAY more Jackass than Elephant and I'd have NO problem constructing an Imperatrable Wall with ARMED Watchtowers around the entire country. I'm serious.
Probably the only difference between me and some Reps, is that I'd be willing to raise taxes to pay for it rather than cut fuel assistance and medical benifits.

Im not saying Dems like yourself. The ones in office will NEVER go for a fence. Thats not even debatable! We all now how the dems work, If Bush proposes an idea they shoot it down. Same thing would happen with a fence.