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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
03-17-2014, 09:52 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Gays and the St Patricks Day Parade
I gather that the mayors of NYC and Boston boycotted their St Patricks Day Parades.
I hate to interrupt a good, foaming-at-the-mouth liberal rant with some facts. but here goes (and remember that I support gay marriage, but I don't like homosexual militant activists).
Guess what? Did you know that gays can absolutely march in the St Patricks Day parade? I bet many of you didn't know that. They just can't march under a "gay" banner, for the simple reason that the St Patricks Day holiday, and the parade, have nothing to do with sexuality. You can look up the meaning of St Patrick, but it's a celebration of affinity and acceptance.
The parade organizers want to keep sex and politics out of it. Is that asking so much? It's not persecution of gays. Similarly, I would not be allowed to march with a banner that says "marriage is between a man and a woman", because that has no business in a St Patricks Day parade.
A gay banner has no more business in a St Patricks Day parade than it has in a Super Bowl parade or in a Memorial Day parade. Does every single public gathering, every single one, have to include an affirmation of acceptance of every group that has been anointed with "victim" status by the left?
Get the facts, and lighten up. We have enough real problems that need addressing, without fabricating claims of hate. I realize that some on the left have made a career out of pointing to anybody who disagrees with them about anything and saying "HATE CRIME"!, but it gets really tiresome.
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03-17-2014, 10:47 AM
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#2
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President - S-B Chapter - Kelly Clarkson Fan Club
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rowley
Posts: 3,781
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You make a valid point, it's not supposed to be a political fight, but it's too late for that, both sides have already politicized it. It's on a public street, they should let both sides march.
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03-17-2014, 12:07 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockport24
It's on a public street, they should let both sides march.
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Both sides can march. They are just supposed to do it without drawing attention to sexuality. If no one is allowed to draw attention to their sexuality, why is that discriminatory? It's only discriminatory if you allow one group to promote their sexual agenda, but not another group. If all sexual groups are treated equally, as they are in this case, that's not discriminatory.
Where does this stop? Where do we draw the line?
If Petco has an animal adoption event in a public parking lot, do they have to have a big sign that says "we love gays"? If the Red Cross has a blood drive at a public school, do they have to set aside space for gay rights activists? Do the caribou that migrate through the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, have to have signs on their antlers that say "gays have rights, too"?
Of course there is a time and a place to discuss this issue. Does it need to get rubbed in my face every time I set foot on public property?
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03-17-2014, 12:42 PM
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#4
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President - S-B Chapter - Kelly Clarkson Fan Club
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rowley
Posts: 3,781
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it's a good point and not disagreeing with you, but as long as they feel victimized (I'm not sure how they are victimized in Mass, however since they can do whatever they want), they are always going to take every opportunity to speak out.
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03-17-2014, 04:58 PM
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#5
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........
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Of course there is a time and a place to discuss this issue. Does it need to get rubbed in my face every time I set foot on public property?
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i agree wholeheartedly
SAME thing can be said for the DEA (propaganda)
and all these goody two shoes
that talk about alcohol ...and then they'll say
do we really need another drug out there?
as a way to denounce the cannabis issue
next they'll say: what about the children?
followed by.... Then why don't we just make all drugs legal?
same ole sh it different day
gateway drug crap
total hogwash
schedule one crap
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03-17-2014, 06:05 PM
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#6
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Maybe they should let the Westboro Baptist Church march in the Gay Pride parade....you know....equal access for everybody. Lets see how that rubs them...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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03-17-2014, 07:34 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Maybe they should let the Westboro Baptist Church march in the Gay Pride parade....you know....equal access for everybody. Lets see how that rubs them...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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That's right. I've never heard of Christians suing gays for being gay. But there are lots of cases of gays suing Christians for being Christian. This is not about tolerance. It's about 'agree with me or else'.
I support gay marriage. I don't need that agenda shoved in my face everywhere I go.
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03-17-2014, 08:00 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
I support gay marriage. I don't need that agenda shoved in my face everywhere I go.
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What is "that agenda?"
-spence
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03-18-2014, 05:03 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
What is "that agenda?"
-spence
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The agenda is, "I'm gay, and you better accept that or else". Not many advocacy groups are as in-your-face. And as you can imagine, it bothers me when they sue folks who are simply practicing their religion, when they can easily use another baker/photographer/whatever. It would be nice if the militant activists would display a little bit of the tolerance and empathy that they are demanding from the rest of us.
There is no reason, none whatsoever, for them to be in a tizzy over the St Patricks Day Parade. Why must they express their sexuality at every single podium that is available? Is there nothing else to their entire existence, beyond their sexuality? This is the "agenda" I was referring to, their insistence that every single public event has to have a BIGALA banner. When I march in a parade as a vet, I don't feel the need to carry a sign that says "I'm heterosexual AND YOU BETTER LIKE IT"! I don't need to make my sexuality the main issue every time I leave my house.
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03-18-2014, 06:39 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
What is "that agenda?"
-spence
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I'm shocked you aren't aware of this
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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03-18-2014, 09:37 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
The agenda is, "I'm gay, and you better accept that or else". Not many advocacy groups are as in-your-face. And as you can imagine, it bothers me when they sue folks who are simply practicing their religion, when they can easily use another baker/photographer/whatever. It would be nice if the militant activists would display a little bit of the tolerance and empathy that they are demanding from the rest of us.
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I love it "militant activists"
One of the groups that wanted to march was comprised of gay veterans. Yea, really...
Quote:
There is no reason, none whatsoever, for them to be in a tizzy over the St Patricks Day Parade. Why must they express their sexuality at every single podium that is available? Is there nothing else to their entire existence, beyond their sexuality? This is the "agenda" I was referring to, their insistence that every single public event has to have a BIGALA banner. When I march in a parade as a vet, I don't feel the need to carry a sign that says "I'm heterosexual AND YOU BETTER LIKE IT"! I don't need to make my sexuality the main issue every time I leave my house.
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It's not about sexuality it's about identity. You seem to have this characterization about gay people like they're all running around in ass-less PVC chaps throwing condoms at little kids.
Perhaps if you had to spend most of your life hiding who you really were you'd think differently.
-spence
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03-18-2014, 09:50 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,204
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As cute as I am, I suprised more gays don't try throwing their agenda in my face. I hope "agenda" isn't a code word.
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03-18-2014, 11:52 AM
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#13
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
One of the groups that wanted to march was comprised of gay veterans. Yea, really...
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Why didn't they just march with the Veterans group that was already marching...are they a bunch of Hetero-Phobes
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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03-18-2014, 11:57 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
I love it "militant activists"
One of the groups that wanted to march was comprised of gay veterans. Yea, really...
It's not about sexuality it's about identity. You seem to have this characterization about gay people like they're all running around in ass-less PVC chaps throwing condoms at little kids.
Perhaps if you had to spend most of your life hiding who you really were you'd think differently.
-spence
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"One of the groups that wanted to march was comprised of gay veterans.
Then I have good news for them, they could have marched. I giuess you didn't read the original post. Anyone can march, no one is excluded because of sexuality. They just can't march under a gay banner, as a St Patricks Day parade is not about affirming your personal sexuality.
If you think "militant" is inaccurate, tell that to the Christian business owners who are being persecuted, simply for wanting to act in accordance with their beliefs.
I have great empathy for gays, and I recognize their predicament. But if a St Patricks Day parade asks everyone, including both homosexuaks and heterosexuals, to leave the sexual identity out of it for a couple of hours, then no one is being discriminated against. If I can't hold a sign saying "hooray for heterosexuals", and gays can't hold their own banner, how in God's name is that discriminatory? We're all being treated exactly the same way. A St Patricks Day parade is not a celebration of anyone's sexual identity.
The parade asked all marchers to leave their sexual identities out of it. Only one group had a problem with that.
My "characterization" is that they can't let this one facet of their identity on hold for an hour. That's militant, just like Al Sharpton can't stop seeing racism everywhere he looks. It's tiresome, and it hurts the cause in the long run.
The ironic thing is, St Patrick is celebrated specificlly for his tolerance and acceptance.
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03-18-2014, 11:58 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Why didn't they just march with the Veterans group that was already marching...are they a bunch of Hetero-Phobes
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Because they are "militant". They couldn't just march with veterans, and call themselves "veterans" for an hour. God forbid...
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03-18-2014, 12:00 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Why didn't they just march with the Veterans group that was already marching...are they a bunch of Hetero-Phobes
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I would assume they wanted to self identify and were denied.
-spence
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03-18-2014, 01:08 PM
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#17
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
I would assume they wanted to self identify and were denied.
-spence
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Why do they need to....I'm positive that nowhere on my DD-214 does it list my sexuality.....it just lists my veteran status.
When people ask me what I was in the Navy, I don't say "Hetero-sexual"....I say "Data Systems Technician".
Face it...they are just doing it to be a bunch of A-Holes
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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03-18-2014, 01:54 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
I would assume they wanted to self identify and were denied.
-spence
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Well, if any heterosexual groups wanted similar self-validation based on their sexuality, they were also denied. Therfore, there is exactly zero discrimination involved.
Try making that wrong.
If these people want self-identification based entirely on their sexual orientation, there are places and times to do that. There should also be places and times when people who don't give a rat's azz about sexual identity, should not be forced to have it shoved in their faces.
It doesn't need to be front and center, every single second, especially at an event when clearly nobody is being discriminated against, and the underlying theme has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality. As I said, if they can hijack a St Patrick's Day parade, why not demand a gay pride banner at a Red Cross blood drive? What's the difference?
Al Sharpton never, ever stops talking about race. It gets tiresome after a while.
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03-18-2014, 02:02 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Why do they need to....I'm positive that nowhere on my DD-214 does it list my sexuality.....it just lists my veteran status.
When people ask me what I was in the Navy, I don't say "Hetero-sexual"....I say "Data Systems Technician".
Face it...they are just doing it to be a bunch of A-Holes
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Agreed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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03-18-2014, 02:04 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Why do they need to....I'm positive that nowhere on my DD-214 does it list my sexuality.....it just lists my veteran status.
When people ask me what I was in the Navy, I don't say "Hetero-sexual"....I say "Data Systems Technician".
Face it...they are just doing it to be a bunch of A-Holes
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Or, they're doing it to change the norm. Jim wouldn't likely be as tolerant as he is if many gay rights advocates hadn't taken risks and pushed for tolerance and inclusion over the past 30 years.
Gay groups want to identify themselves as such not to promote the act of sex, but rather celebrate that they're able to openly be proud of who they are...not what they do. Heterosexuals don't have to worry about this...
You're conflating the act of sex with the identity of sex and as such your analogy sort of blows
-spence
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03-18-2014, 02:26 PM
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#21
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Idiot
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 2,287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Both sides can march. They are just supposed to do it without drawing attention to sexuality. If no one is allowed to draw attention to their sexuality, why is that discriminatory? It's only discriminatory if you allow one group to promote their sexual agenda, but not another group. If all sexual groups are treated equally, as they are in this case, that's not discriminatory.
Where does this stop? Where do we draw the line?
If Petco has an animal adoption event in a public parking lot, do they have to have a big sign that says "we love gays"? If the Red Cross has a blood drive at a public school, do they have to set aside space for gay rights activists? Do the caribou that migrate through the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, have to have signs on their antlers that say "gays have rights, too"?
Of course there is a time and a place to discuss this issue. Does it need to get rubbed in my face every time I set foot on public property?
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I have to say that having a "No Sexual Orientation" rule in their "code of conduct" pretty much says "No Openly Gay Demonstrations." I'm as open minded as the next, but when your code of conduct allows motorcycles with girls on the back seats and politicians to walk through touting signs all over the place, then I think you can safely infer that having a strange rule like not being able to outwardly identify your sexuality is forwarding an agenda. You can't have rules that say you are trying to keep sexuality and politics out of a fun day of celebration while openly inviting sexuality and politics for just the stuff you are comfortable with supporting.
I think the advocacy groups and media outlets probably made a bigger deal out of it than they should have, but come on... this "rule" has a purpose.
I personally don't see how a group of homosexual veterans (who more than likely lived their lives in an military culture that forced them to hide their identity) wanting to march in a parade to express their pride and the progress they have made is any different than the politicians who marched with banners saying "Happy St Patricks Day from Congressman blah blah blah."
If they had said they were going to be wearing bikinis and blasting YMCA up and down Broadway while girating on unwilling spectators, I would have approved the rescinded invitation, but they just wanted to march behind a banner and wave at a bunch of happy people, like a lot of other people were allowed to do that day.
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The artist formerly known as Scratch59.
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03-18-2014, 02:28 PM
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#22
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Nah.....I'm sticking with my opinion that they are just being A-Holes.
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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03-18-2014, 02:30 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
I have to say that having a "No Sexual Orientation" rule in their "code of conduct" pretty much says "No Openly Gay Demonstrations." I'm as open minded as the next, but when your code of conduct allows motorcycles with girls on the back seats and politicians to walk through touting signs all over the place, then I think you can safely infer that having a strange rule like not being able to outwardly identify your sexuality is forwarding an agenda. You can't have rules that say you are trying to keep sexuality and politics out of a fun day of celebration while openly inviting sexuality and politics for just the stuff you are comfortable with supporting.
I think the advocacy groups and media outlets probably made a bigger deal out of it than they should have, but come on... this "rule" has a purpose.
I personally don't see how a group of homosexual veterans (who more than likely lived their lives in an military culture that forced them to hide their identity) wanting to march in a parade to express their pride and the progress they have made is any different than the politicians who marched with banners saying "Happy St Patricks Day from Congressman blah blah blah."
If they had said they were going to be wearing bikinis and blasting YMCA up and down Broadway while girating on unwilling spectators, I would have approved the rescinded invitation, but they just wanted to march behind a banner and wave at a bunch of happy people, like a lot of other people were allowed to do that day.
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All great points. You must be a very handsome man.
The ironic thing is that openly gay signs and floats are more than welcome at the parade in Ireland.
-spence
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03-18-2014, 02:33 PM
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#24
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
I personally don't see how a group of homosexual veterans (who more than likely lived their lives in an military culture that forced them to hide their identity) wanting to march in a parade to express their pride and the progress they have made
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They are free to organize their own parade if they want.....364 other days to choose from....
for a group that is fighting for inclusion they sure as hell are trying to seperate themselves from everybody else....
Perfectly fine Veterans group willing to let them march with them if they want.
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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03-18-2014, 02:51 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Nah.....I'm sticking with my opinion that they are just being A-Holes.
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I think you meant militant a-holes.
Fine to get stumbling drunk and pass out on the sidewalk as long as you patronize a local establishment.
But this? Really? Good thing my kids aren't around to witness the sexuality. I don't know how to explain it...Dad, why are those people holding hands on the sign Dad?
-spence
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03-18-2014, 03:02 PM
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#26
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Doesn't bother me....they are still A-Holes
Or can only Heterosexuals be called A-Holes.....maybe this is their way of forcing acceptance in to the Storied History of A-Holes in America....
The issue isn't that they are gay...the issue is they are trying to force an issue that shouldn't even be an issue in a St Paddy's day Parade.
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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03-18-2014, 03:05 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gloucester Massachusetts
Posts: 2,678
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Jim, U hit the nail on the head with this blog....being a vetran if I can not march with my heterosexual sign Y should gays?.....Spence, I'm only trying to identify myself.
They were not denied ...only request was no signage they refused...to bad
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03-18-2014, 03:12 PM
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#28
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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You wanna know the Saddest part.....
There was a contingent of Marathon Survivors that also had an MIT police cruiser trailing it in rememberance for Fallen Officer Sean Collier.....and nobody is saying boo about it.
Sad...
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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03-18-2014, 03:13 PM
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#29
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Idiot
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 2,287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Nah.....I'm sticking with my opinion that they are just being A-Holes.
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I think there is some of this going on too, but given the history of intolerance and the recent victories their movement has gotten, I think they felt tired of not being #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s, figured they'd give it a shot... and as far as attention is concerned, it seems to have worked. And not just in Boston.
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The artist formerly known as Scratch59.
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03-18-2014, 03:14 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
I think you meant militant a-holes.
Fine to get stumbling drunk and pass out on the sidewalk as long as you patronize a local establishment.
But this? Really? Good thing my kids aren't around to witness the sexuality. I don't know how to explain it...Dad, why are those people holding hands on the sign Dad?
-spence
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Answer this...
Why couldn't they just march with the vets, as vets? Why do they have to make a statement about their sexuality? What harm does it do to leave that aside for one afternoon?
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