Is this true??

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I think his 10B claim has been shot down. He also inherited a support structure that influenced his ability to make that money work.

I'm not sure if that says he's successful or just not self destructive.

Here's the real issue. I was talking to my son today about what Trump brings to the table that makes him want to be a better American. His response, nothing, he's kind of annoying. Didn't he say something mean about someone's Mexican wife?

Exactly.

It's all on how you're raised . I was raised by Roman Catholic Irish Democrats . They all vote Republican now .
You need to turn MSNBC off the TV at home
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[Nebe]

Maybe they should turn off the Fox News as well.
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[Nebe]

Think long and hard about why the GOP is always trying so hard to defund education.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Think long and hard about why the GOP is always trying so hard to defund education.
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Says who?

I want to stop funding insane teacher pensions, because they are stupidly expensive and they don't help kids perform better in school.

Here is a true question...if the democrats care so much about "choice", and they care so much about education, why are they so opposed to school choice? Why do democrats force poor people, mostly blacks, to continue to go to horrific, failing schools?

Answer - democrats care a lot more about placating the teachers unions, than they care about choice or about education.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Here's the real issue. I was talking to my son today about what Trump brings to the table that makes him want to be a better American. His response, nothing, he's kind of annoying. Didn't he say something mean about someone's Mexican wife?

Exactly.

bet he also thinks Hillary has an 'impressive resume", is honest and trustworthy and looks really hot in a pant suit

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Think long and hard about why the GOP is always trying so hard to defund education.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

as usual you get it part right and that's an incredibly disingenuous statement......some in the GOP would like to end Federal involvement in education....think about it Eben, if States didn't have to send the money to the Feds to then be filtered through many grabbing hands before making it's way back to the State...the States might have more money for education..I wonder how much "corporate welfare" is handed out through the Department of Education http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...e/257456/..the... pensions that Jim referred are part of the massive unfunded liability that the States currently enjoy, I don't see how you unfund something that is already unfunded

By LYNN O'SHAUGHNESSY MONEYWATCH January 28, 2015, 5:15 AM

Teacher pensions: The math adds up to a crisis

Teacher pension plans from across the country are staggering from a half-trillion dollars in debt. Put in perspective, that's more than $10,000 worth of debt for every student in the nation's primary and secondary schools.

In 2014, state teacher pension systems had a total of $499 billion in unfunded liabilities, which has risen $100 billion in just two years, according to a new report from the National Council on Teacher Quality, a nonpartisan research and policy group dedicated to restructuring the teaching profession.

The report card on teacher pensions found that 70 cents of every dollar contributed to state pension systems pays for this massive debt rather than covering current employees' future retirement benefits.

"The math on state teacher pension policy doesn't add up," suggested Sandi Jacobs, the organization's vice president. "The funding crisis is staggering, yet the structure of most states' pension systems isn't giving teachers what they need.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

It's all on how you're raised . I was raised by Roman Catholic Irish Democrats . They all vote Republican now .
You need to turn MSNBC off the TV at home
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Morning Joe is about the only MSNBC I watch at home...
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

It's all on how you're raised . I was raised by Roman Catholic Irish Democrats . They all vote Republican now .
You need to turn MSNBC off the TV at home
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Bingo. If you want an idea of how the Democratic party has changed (radicalized) in the last 50 years, look at the party agenda throgh the eyes of a Catholic. In my parents' time, it was assumed that Catholics would vote Democrat. A Catholic was elected President as a Democrat, for Pete's sake! Granted, he wasn't what you would call a model Catholic (what with the affairs, and the mafia hits and all...)...but can you imagine a Catholic running for President as a Democrat today? The Democrats, at the national level, absolutely despise Catholicism. The Catholic catechism is unchanged during that period. What happened is that the Democrats embraced San Francisco-style liberal ideology.

So today, democrats have "progressed" to the point where it's bourgeoise to say that boys should use the boys' locker room and girls should use the girls' locker room. To Democrats, only Archie Bunker still clings to such neanderthalic, hateful bigotry.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Morning Joe is about the only MSNBC I watch at home...
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So where do you get your news, from the North Korea TV station?

I get mine from watching Hee Haw re-runs.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

...but can you imagine a Catholic running for President as a Democrat today? The Democrats, at the national level, absolutely despise Catholicism. The Catholic catechism is unchanged during that period. What happened is that the Democrats embraced San Francisco-style liberal ideology.

You mean like VP Joe Biden or Martin O'Malley?

According to Pew, a majority of Catholic voters supported Gore, Kerry and Obama twice in the Presidential elections.

Additionally, right now there are nearly as many Dem Catholics as Rep's in the House (68-70) and a majority Dem Catholic in the Senate (15-11).

[PaulS]

Spence, why don't you tell Jim about the Repubs. in the past who supported amnesty, or tax increases or environmental regulation in the past. Those would never happen now.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You mean like VP Joe Biden or Martin O'Malley?

According to Pew, a majority of Catholic voters supported Gore, Kerry and Obama twice in the Presidential elections.

Additionally, right now there are nearly as many Dem Catholics as Rep's in the House (68-70) and a majority Dem Catholic in the Senate (15-11).

Sorry, allow me to clarify...imagine if a Catholic, who wasn't deserving of excommunication for being pro-abortion (therefore being anti-Catholic) ran for President.

I'm not talking about phonies who call themselves Catholic on Sunday because they want that vote, then go to pro-abortion rallies on Monday because they also want that vote.

You cannot be Catholic and be pro-abortion. You can call yourself Catholic and be pro-abortion, just as I can call myself a vegan but win a rib eating contest.

VP Joe Biden's executive branch has been the subject of several suits on behalf of the Catholic Church (another one, from Little Sisters Of The Poor, is at the Supreme Court now). I forgot what a swell Catholic he is that he has been sued by the church. He's a disgrace to his church.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Spence, why don't you tell Jim about the Repubs. in the past who supported amnesty, or tax increases or environmental regulation in the past. Those would never happen now.
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Repubs are opposed to all environmental regulation? I must have missed that. I am conservative, and I support all reasonable environmental legislation.

I have no problem with tax increases that are necessary. With all the useless fat that could be trimmed right now, we should cut all that first before we talk about tax increases. Fair enough?

The National Endowment of the Arts subsidizes opera tickets for multi-millionaires. Same for tax rebates for electric cars, which are tax breaks for the wealthy, as poor people don't buy a Prius or a Tesla. Cut stupid spending first. Then, if we clearly need more revenue, we can raise taxes. Is that unreasonable?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You mean like VP Joe Biden or Martin O'Malley?

According to Pew, a majority of Catholic voters supported Gore, Kerry and Obama twice in the Presidential elections.

Additionally, right now there are nearly as many Dem Catholics as Rep's in the House (68-70) and a majority Dem Catholic in the Senate (15-11).

"a majority of Catholic voters supported Gore, Kerry and Obama twice in the Presidential elections."

A majority of people who identify as Catholics, as opposed to actually being Catholic, voted for those rabidly pro-abortion democrats. I don't know how many true Catholics voted for them. I'd guess zero true Catholics voted for them, but if you knew anything about the Catechism, you'd know that.

Again, I addressed your questions (tough, probing, and fair questions) head-on, as best as I could. Any chance you could show me the same courtesy?

How about telling me why Hilary's lies don't make her a liar, in your eyes? Give it a shot.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Spence, why don't you tell Jim about the Repubs. in the past who supported amnesty, ..Those would never happen now.
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I guess I'm not sure what you mean by amnesty? I believe Trump is the only candidate saying he would deport all of them, and 75% of GOP voters don't support Trump. Can you clarify? By amnesty, do you mean make them citizens? Hell, no. They can stay if they don't break any more laws. Citizenship should be a reward for people who play by the rules, and endure additional hardship because of it.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm not talking about phonies who call themselves Catholic on Sunday because they want that vote, then go to pro-abortion rallies on Monday because they also want that vote.

Martin O'Malley

- Attended a parish elementary in Bethesda, Md., and Jesuit-run Gonzaga College High School in Washington, D.C.
- Earned his undergraduate degree at the Catholic University of America in Washington
- He’s a pray-every-morning, church-every-Sunday (St. Francis of Assisi in Baltimore) believer who sent all four of his kids to Catholic schools.

i.e. Phony

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

Martin O'Malley

- Attended a parish elementary in Bethesda, Md., and Jesuit-run Gonzaga College High School in Washington, D.C.
- Earned his undergraduate degree at the Catholic University of America in Washington
- He’s a pray-every-morning, church-every-Sunday (St. Francis of Assisi in Baltimore) believer who sent all four of his kids to Catholic schools.

i.e. Phony

Jim and I went around on this previously; apparently (and I didn't know the dogma well enough), being pro-choice is grounds for ex-communication.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Jim and I went around on this previously; apparently (and I didn't know the dogma well enough), being pro-choice is grounds for ex-communication.

Have they?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Martin O'Malley

- Attended a parish elementary in Bethesda, Md., and Jesuit-run Gonzaga College High School in Washington, D.C.
- Earned his undergraduate degree at the Catholic University of America in Washington
- He’s a pray-every-morning, church-every-Sunday (St. Francis of Assisi in Baltimore) believer who sent all four of his kids to Catholic schools.

i.e. Phony

And what's O'Malley polling at, exactly?

Biden is a phony. He has routinely championed legislation that spits in the face of what he claims to be his religious beliefs. If you want to explain that with something other than "apples and oranges" be my guest. So do phonies like Nancy Pelosi.

[Jim in CT]

Spence, Catholicism requires Catholics to be opposed to abortion. It's not optional.

Now, how does the DNC typically describe people who are anti-abortion? Does the DNC roll out the red carpet for pro-life folks? Or do we get accused of being anti-choice, of waging war on women, and of attacking women's health?

You tell me. I'm all ears.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Martin O'Malley

- Attended a parish elementary in Bethesda, Md., and Jesuit-run Gonzaga College High School in Washington, D.C.
- Earned his undergraduate degree at the Catholic University of America in Washington
- He’s a pray-every-morning, church-every-Sunday (St. Francis of Assisi in Baltimore) believer who sent all four of his kids to Catholic schools.

i.e. Phony

He's also pro abortion. Meaning, his beliefs are outside of what's allowed for Catholics.

So yes, phony.

Catholicism is made up of binding beliefs (have to go to Church, have to believe Jesus is the son of God), and non-binding beliefs (which are suggestions, but not mandatory, like saying the rosary and being opposed to the death penalty.

Opposition to abortion is a binding belief. You are not Catholic if you are pro-abortion. I can go to vegan meetings, I can say the vegan oath 10 times a day, I can do all kinds of things to outwardly appear like a vegan. But guess what Spence? If I eat steak, I'm not a vegan. It doesn't matter what else I do.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Have they?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Whether or not a pro-abortion politician actually gets ex-communicated is up to their local bishop. Some have been. All are subject to it. There's no ambiguity around whether or not their beliefs subject them to excommunication. Unfortunately, there's no rule that requires the bishops to do it.

[Sea Dangles]

I have a solid fact for you. The real catholic church is happy to take the money of anybody who calls themselves catholic. And trust me when I tell you that the more they give,the more they are welcome.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I have a solid fact for you. The real catholic church is happy to take the money of anybody who calls themselves catholic. And trust me when I tell you that the more they give,the more they are welcome.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

can't disagree with that....my biggest disappointment with the church beyond the scandals is the incessant fundraising apparatus.....I have piles of envelopes at my house from multiple church's requesting donations for everything under the sun, newsletters telling you how much of your "time, talent and treasure" that you "should" be contributing...everything has a fee attached to it...not unlike government except that it's still voluntary(if you want to get to heaven)

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I have a solid fact for you. The real catholic church is happy to take the money of anybody who calls themselves catholic. And trust me when I tell you that the more they give,the more they are welcome.
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Not sure you're speaking from experience or hearsay , but I'm pretty sure that can be said of most religions . One thing I do find ironic about the whole abortion thing on this site. Some would defend the commercial harvesting a baby body parts but lambaste the commercial harvesting a striped bass .
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[Sea Dangles]

I guess I havent noticed that
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I have a solid fact for you. The real catholic church is happy to take the money of anybody who calls themselves catholic. And trust me when I tell you that the more they give,the more they are welcome.
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More of that happens than I would care to admit.

What do they do with that money? Any guesses?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

More of that happens than I would care to admit.

What do they do with that money? Any guesses?

It goes to bribe Saint Peter to let you into heaven and to forget about all those sins you (the one giving all that money to the church) racked up over the years.

Oh wait. It's going to all the males who were sexually abused / raped by those who called them selves messengers of gods will and word.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

It goes to bribe Saint Peter to let you into heaven and to forget about all those sins you (the one giving all that money to the church) racked up over the years.

Oh wait. It's going to all the males who were sexually abused / raped by those who called them selves messengers of gods will and word.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Whatever.

Last night Nebe, some of your fellow citizens received a free meal at a Catholic soup kitchen, free healthcare at a Cathoilic hospital, free boarding at a Catholic shelter, adoption services at a Catholic entity, and subsidized education at Catholic schools. None of that stuff is free.

Liberals claim that conservatives don't care about helping the
poor, then Sea Dangles acts like the church needs to be called out for aggressive fundraising to do just that. Can't win.

And everyone involved in the sexual abuse, should be in jail.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Whether or not a pro-abortion politician actually gets ex-communicated is up to their local bishop. Some have been. All are subject to it. There's no ambiguity around whether or not their beliefs subject them to excommunication. Unfortunately, there's no rule that requires the bishops to do it.

What about all the pro-choice Catholic organizations? They're all fake as well? Why not get the bishops to push them all out, I mean they're not really Catholics right?

Is it possible the Church's position isn't really that black and white because they need the people or to Dangles point because they want the money?

If the Church is willing to compromise a fundamental tenant what does that say about it's faith?