Mistake?????

[justplugit]

Repubs want to work on recinding Health Care as their first
order in Congress. I realize 70% of the people don't want it but
the #1 priority should be the Economy.

Obama's biggest mistake was making HC his first priority rather than
the economy. Good for him, bad for the country.

Better to work on the economy first while there may be some bi-partisan
cooperation with the new congress and get into HC later in mho.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Short answer, yes, a mistake.

I think it will restart the washington bickering, and even if it gets through the House, it won't clear the senate.

[RIJIMMY]

just curious, what to do folks think the government CAN do for the economy?

I honestly have no idea. The only ideas proposed or acted upon are "stimulus" which is borrowing money to give to us or create jobs, not a sustainable approach. I am curious what people want the government to do. They only thing I am aware of that the government has done to create jobs is go to war.

[justplugit]

[QUOTE=RIJIMMY;824068]just curious, what to do folks think the government CAN do for the economy?

[QUOTE]

Stimulus didn't work, all those shovel ready jobs went up in smoke.
Were never there in the first place.

The long term answer is bringing spending under control so taxes can be
reduced on business and so they can hire and the general public can spend.
Takes time to do this and it would take a true leader to have the courage
to do it.
Everyone needs to be willing to make sacrifices. Not an easy thing
for the "I'm entitled generation".

[RIROCKHOUND]

[QUOTE=justplugit;824074Everyone needs to be willing to make sacrifices. Not an easy thing
for the "I'm entitled generation".[/QUOTE]

This isn't easy for ANY generation.

[justplugit]

Your right RRH, but past generations were willing to sacrifice
for a cause because they were more patriotic and a lot less materialistic.

Having lived through WW II I saw every families father in my neighborhood
working after a full days job work in the war factories at night,
using limited food and gas tokens to buy and buying war bonds to
help.

Yup, it was sacrifice well worth the cause, and I think sacrificing at this
time for our children and Grandchildren to be able to live a decent life
is worth it too.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Your right RRH, but past generations were willing to sacrifice for a cause because they were more patriotic and a lot less materialistic.

So what sacrafice should we make? More money to the government? What was the tax rate Post WWII? 50percent?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

just curious, what to do folks think the government CAN do for the economy?

I am by far very well informed on the grand scheme of the economy but, as a layman, I've always wonder...

- Raise tariffs on imported goods (hopefully spur more domestic production)

- Work towards raising the value of the dollar (encourage foreigners to invest in US businesses)

- Work towards eliminating the National Debt by attacking it from both ends, prohibition on earmarks and not renewing the Bush Tax cuts. Yeah, it's going to suck for some time because people want immediate fixes, but the government keeps putting band-aids on broken bones.

- Limit non-war related Defense Spending to under 3% of GDP. This would equate to a 25% cut based on Defense being about 4% of GDP this year. Then, as we become more prosperous Defense spending can increase in a relative fashion.

- Require the non-disabled group of people who receive social services to work. Instead of the massive Agricultural Subsidies that the government gives out, provide farmers with "Subsidized Labor". This would reduce the incentive to hire illegals, displace the government's financial burden and hopefully reduce overall costs.

- Most importantly, ignore the Politically Correct bull$@#@ and Red Tape that prevents both parties from taking the most effective, appropriate action due to mitigating fallout cause by upsetting an ignorant, poorly informed public.

I'm sure there are huge holes and consequences I haven't considered above.

[RIJIMMY]

interesting thoughts and I am enjoying having a civil discussion. It seems when people say "economy" they really mean unemployment. As someone currently employed, things arent so bad on a day to day basis. Stock Market is cranking, prices arent too bad. On the negative side, Health care costs are really becoming a headache, my familys are up about 40% this year! Im worried about the deficit and future higher taxes. I really dont want to pay a higher tax rate. We make a lot of sacrifices to have the careers we do, I dont mind paying my fair percentage, but not a higher percentage of those who dont sacrifice as much.

Or...is this just a cycle? We had big up periods for most of my working life but I remember the 70s, lay offs, strikes, gas lines. We rebounded. Do we need the government to do anything? Will things just recover by themselves?

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

So what sacrafice should we make? More money to the government? What was the tax rate Post WWII? 50percent?

No, less money to the government by cutting all programs
across the board so everyone sacrifices but the end result being
more $$ in everyone's pocket.

5o% for the top wage earners? What ever the % it was it was too much.

An additional trillion in US debt in the last 7 months is a bit much too.

No different than attacking your household budget. Either cut back and save
some $$ to buy when you have it, or borrow money to get what you
want and may have to pay it back at a time when you can't.

[RIROCKHOUND]

[QUOTE=justplugit;824126]No, less money to the government by cutting all programs across the board so everyone sacrifices but the end result being more $$ in everyone's pocket.QUOTE]

OK.
What programs to cut? They cut food stamps and I don't suffer.. they cut education and my son (in a couple of years) might suffer. Cut transportation, my truck suffers....


this is the common rhetoric, cut taxes, cut spending. few in Congress on either side are actually doing it!

[UserRemoved1]

oh come on! They erected hundreds of thousands of signs proclaiming all they were doing to rebuild the country. Don't tell me it was all a FARCE

[QUOTE=justplugit;824074][QUOTE=RIJIMMY;824068]just curious, what to do folks think the government CAN do for the economy?

Stimulus didn't work, all those shovel ready jobs went up in smoke.
Were never there in the first place.

The long term answer is bringing spending under control so taxes can be
reduced on business and so they can hire and the general public can spend.
Takes time to do this and it would take a true leader to have the courage
to do it.
Everyone needs to be willing to make sacrifices. Not an easy thing
for the "I'm entitled generation".

[justplugit]

[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;824143]

Originally Posted by justplugit

No, less money to the government by cutting all programs across the board so everyone sacrifices but the end result being more $$ in everyone's pocket.QUOTE]

OK.
What programs to cut? They cut food stamps and I don't suffer.. they cut education and my son (in a couple of years) might suffer. Cut transportation, my truck suffers....


this is the common rhetoric, cut taxes, cut spending. few in Congress on either side are actually doing it!

I agree RRH, few have the courage to do it. Like I said it would take a true leader.

Gov. Chris Christie of New Joisey is doing it, cutting across the board and after a year in office still has a 50% favorable rating, not bad for a liberal state like Joisey.
He takes no prisoners.

The only alternative would be bankruptcy.

[buckman]

Level fund everything for the next 5 years. Don't cut anything.

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

just curious, what to do folks think the government CAN do for the economy?

RIJIMMY I can answer that very good question on a state level:

IF you live in RI you could've voted for Stinc Chaffee.

First Stinc will allow contractors doing business with the state to hire illegal immigrants to work for them through an executive order nullifying E-Verify.

Second Stinc will add a 1% tax to food and clothing.

That WILL do something to the economy.SOMETHING NEGATIVE!!!

To anyone who voted for Stinc...I hope you die a slow death, because Stinc is going to be the knife in our backs that slowly kills RI.
Hope your proud of your vote for Stinc.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I am by far very well informed on the grand scheme of the economy but, as a layman, I've always wonder...

- Raise tariffs on imported goods (hopefully spur more domestic production)

I kinda like reflexive policies. If Japan wants to have lotsa Japanese cars in the US market, than they should have comparable import taxes on our stuff as theirs. Ditto with China.

- Work towards raising the value of the dollar (encourage foreigners to invest in US businesses).

Is the dollar weak because of our spending? How much (little) will investment help if we continue to spend 40% more annually than we take in?

- Work towards eliminating the National Debt by attacking it from both ends, prohibition on earmarks and not renewing the Bush Tax cuts. Yeah, it's going to suck for some time because people want immediate fixes, but the government keeps putting band-aids on broken bones.

I would be OK with paying more taxes, on a temporary basis, if they were used to cut deficits but the amount we pay in taxes won't have the long term benefit of cutting spending. We have to cut spending. This has not been done since Clinton AND a R congress. Interesting, ain't it. (and no, I don't think Obama has the testicular fortitude to do it).

- Limit non-war related Defense Spending to under 3% of GDP. This would equate to a 25% cut based on Defense being about 4% of GDP this year. Then, as we become more prosperous Defense spending can increase in a relative fashion.

Things won't be prosperous for a long time if ever if we don't reverse course and take a hard look at what we are doing.

As a percentage of GDP we are spending less (non war-related) than we have at any time since the great depression. Some might remember how that turned out (Brewster Buffalo -v- the A6M Zero anyone?). This is is important because some seem to indicate that we are in an oddly familiar time of history, much like the 10s and 20s of the century before.

Perhaps we should look less at cutting at a dollar level and instead look at what are commitments are and cut those back first. Wars aside, we are wearing out a lot of people and equipment by overextending them with commitments all over the world. Some of our commitments in Germany, UK, Japan, Korea allow THOSE countries to spend less in defense spending by GDP as they fall under our protective umbrella.

If we are going to pull back and be less committed across the world than we need to focus on what we are and what our strengths are. We are a maritime nation. Our nation relies on trade (at least until we outsource that too), we need a strong Navy. We need a smaller expidtionary capability, Marines. And we need to be able to reach out and touch someone, Air Force. If we look at our long term prospects of trouble that is likely in Asia and we likely are not going to be invading China (a monumentally stooopid thing to do). A reduction in heavy mechanized forces? So we can probalby cut the Army in half and we'll be OK until its too late and we need a strong Army. Screwed any way you slice at.

We probably won't do what we really need to do and that is the less sexy stuff that supports these forces like replenishment ships and tankers.

Right now we have a big procurement problem. Lockheed Martin is designing / building lots of gold plated under-performing CRAP (as are many other companies) example F-35 and LCS programs. We are not getting good bang for the buck. Our service people are not getting good bang for the buck. Taxpayers are not getting a good bang for the buck.

Where do we cut as for our biggest spending areas? Social Security, Welfare, Medicare? Think it is tough now? The Baby Boomers are retiring en masse, living longer, not paying into the system we're having trouble financing now.

- Require the non-disabled group of people who receive social services to work. Instead of the massive Agricultural Subsidies that the government gives out, provide farmers with "Subsidized Labor". This would reduce the incentive to hire illegals, displace the government's financial burden and hopefully reduce overall costs.

Somehow, though this will *cost* other Americans jobs.

- Most importantly, ignore the Politically Correct bull$@#@ and Red Tape that prevents both parties from taking the most effective, appropriate action due to mitigating fallout cause by upsetting an ignorant, poorly informed public.

How do we come up with smart regulations? There is so much red tape and Nimbyism that people that want to do things that will create jobs can't. Why does 300K in fees, economic, environmental impact statements have to happen on 500K projects? How is there a cheaper way to do it that both sensibly protects and does not hamper stimulation?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by basswipe

To anyone who voted for Stinc...I hope you die a slow death, because Stinc is going to be the knife in our backs that slowly kills RI.Hope your proud of your vote for Stinc.

I didn't agree with Bush or Carcieri in the last two elections, but those that voted for him don't get a death wish. Classy.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I didn't agree with Bush or Carcieri in the last two elections, but those that voted for him don't get a death wish. Classy.

Yea cause you voted for the stinc.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea cause you voted for the stinc.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Well of course. I couldn't shove it for Caprio, and we don't need another term of Carcieri-light.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by basswipe

RIJIMMY I can answer that very good question on a state level:

IF you live in RI you could've voted for Stinc Chaffee.

First Stinc will allow contractors doing business with the state to hire illegal immigrants to work for them through an executive order nullifying E-Verify.

Second Stinc will add a 1% tax to food and clothing.

That WILL do something to the economy.SOMETHING NEGATIVE!!!

To anyone who voted for Stinc...I hope you die a slow death, because Stinc is going to be the knife in our backs that slowly kills RI.
Hope your proud of your vote for Stinc.

did her really nullify e-verify.
WTF

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by basswipe

RIJIMMY I can answer that very good question on a state level:

IF you live in RI you could've voted for Stinc Chaffee.

First Stinc will allow contractors doing business with the state to hire illegal immigrants to work for them through an executive order nullifying E-Verify.

Second Stinc will add a 1% tax to food and clothing.

That WILL do something to the economy.SOMETHING NEGATIVE!!!

To anyone who voted for Stinc...I hope you die a slow death, because Stinc is going to be the knife in our backs that slowly kills RI.
Hope your proud of your vote for Stinc.

did her really nullify e-verify.
WTF


and your sort of making my point, I think govt can only make it worse. We need business to turn it around. I got my daughter an "AMerican Girl" doll for Christmas. It was made in China. I almost crapped.
Obamas fault? Consumers fault? Company's fault?
I dont know. Do we have to penalize people for manufacturing overseas? How can we be cheaper here?
Anything that "improves" the economy will be another bubble - tech, stocks, housing, - no real value, just investment money flowing in. We need something big to turn it around

[RIJIMMY]

wow - chafee inaugural address

“Tomorrow I will rescind the so-called E-Verify executive order. However well-intentioned it may have been, it has caused needless anxiety within our Latino community without demonstrating any progress on illegal immigration … an issue I strongly believe must be solved at the federal level,” said Chafee on the steps of the Statehouse Tuesday, reiterating a campaign promise.

Needless anxiety? I bet breathalizer tests make drunk drivers anxious! He should be dragged from the statehouse and tarred and feathered. Bry, how could you?

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by JohnR

- Raise tariffs on imported goods (hopefully spur more domestic production)

I kinda like reflexive policies. If Japan wants to have lotsa Japanese cars in the US market, than they should have comparable import taxes on our stuff as theirs. Ditto with China.

- Work towards raising the value of the dollar (encourage foreigners to invest in US businesses).

Is the dollar weak because of our spending? How much (little) will investment help if we continue to spend 40% more annually than we take in?

- Work towards eliminating the National Debt by attacking it from both ends, prohibition on earmarks and not renewing the Bush Tax cuts. Yeah, it's going to suck for some time because people want immediate fixes, but the government keeps putting band-aids on broken bones.

I would be OK with paying more taxes, on a temporary basis, if they were used to cut deficits but the amount we pay in taxes won't have the long term benefit of cutting spending. We have to cut spending. This has not been done since Clinton AND a R congress. Interesting, ain't it. (and no, I don't think Obama has the testicular fortitude to do it).

- Limit non-war related Defense Spending to under 3% of GDP. This would equate to a 25% cut based on Defense being about 4% of GDP this year. Then, as we become more prosperous Defense spending can increase in a relative fashion.

Things won't be prosperous for a long time if ever if we don't reverse course and take a hard look at what we are doing.

As a percentage of GDP we are spending less (non war-related) than we have at any time since the great depression. Some might remember how that turned out (Brewster Buffalo -v- the A6M Zero anyone?). This is is important because some seem to indicate that we are in an oddly familiar time of history, much like the 10s and 20s of the century before.

Perhaps we should look less at cutting at a dollar level and instead look at what are commitments are and cut those back first. Wars aside, we are wearing out a lot of people and equipment by overextending them with commitments all over the world. Some of our commitments in Germany, UK, Japan, Korea allow THOSE countries to spend less in defense spending by GDP as they fall under our protective umbrella.

If we are going to pull back and be less committed across the world than we need to focus on what we are and what our strengths are. We are a maritime nation. Our nation relies on trade (at least until we outsource that too), we need a strong Navy. We need a smaller expidtionary capability, Marines. And we need to be able to reach out and touch someone, Air Force. If we look at our long term prospects of trouble that is likely in Asia and we likely are not going to be invading China (a monumentally stooopid thing to do). A reduction in heavy mechanized forces? So we can probalby cut the Army in half and we'll be OK until its too late and we need a strong Army. Screwed any way you slice at.

We probably won't do what we really need to do and that is the less sexy stuff that supports these forces like replenishment ships and tankers.

Right now we have a big procurement problem. Lockheed Martin is designing / building lots of gold plated under-performing CRAP (as are many other companies) example F-35 and LCS programs. We are not getting good bang for the buck. Our service people are not getting good bang for the buck. Taxpayers are not getting a good bang for the buck.

Where do we cut as for our biggest spending areas? Social Security, Welfare, Medicare? Think it is tough now? The Baby Boomers are retiring en masse, living longer, not paying into the system we're having trouble financing now.

- Require the non-disabled group of people who receive social services to work. Instead of the massive Agricultural Subsidies that the government gives out, provide farmers with "Subsidized Labor". This would reduce the incentive to hire illegals, displace the government's financial burden and hopefully reduce overall costs.

Somehow, though this will *cost* other Americans jobs.

- Most importantly, ignore the Politically Correct bull$@#@ and Red Tape that prevents both parties from taking the most effective, appropriate action due to mitigating fallout cause by upsetting an ignorant, poorly informed public.

How do we come up with smart regulations? There is so much red tape and Nimbyism that people that want to do things that will create jobs can't. Why does 300K in fees, economic, environmental impact statements have to happen on 500K projects? How is there a cheaper way to do it that both sensibly protects and does not hamper stimulation?

I'm all for this John.
How about some force consolidation? Do we really need 2 Armies?
Most Armed Service don't even have consolidated Data Centers, what?
IA controls are outta control, 50 pct of acquistion build/deployment activitiesi is IA?
70 pct of DoD acquisition is non-build deployment paperwork?
There's alot that could be done to consolidate and streamline.
But that's someone's rice bowl and its not going to happen without a major disruption.
What happened to the Gates proclamation?


Neither does

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by striperman36

I'm all for this John.
Most Armed Service don't even have consolidated Data Centers, what? Single point of failure??? Different Bases have different IT Needs so there is a need for locational data centers.

IA controls are outta control, 50 pct of acquistion build/deployment activitiesi is IA? Security needs to be the chief concern in the DOD

I will say there are plenty of other places that the DOD needs to look at to save money......just don't think those are 2 of them

[Raven]

Most of these Politicians\lawmakers
don't have the slightest clue what real health is

health care.......... isn't really about health
it's about repairing the damage already done
and at an completely outrageous PRICE

that our Citizens cannot ever afford.

True health care would be to change how we
view health altogether and act preventably

but the scientific community is too busy arguing
over the details to make any progress

not to mention that the pharmaceutical companies
have WAY to tight a grip on the political establishments BALLS.

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

just curious, what to do folks think the government CAN do for the economy?

I honestly have no idea. The only ideas proposed or acted upon are "stimulus" which is borrowing money to give to us or create jobs, not a sustainable approach. I am curious what people want the government to do. They only thing I am aware of that the government has done to create jobs is go to war.

I want them to put money kiosh's on every street corner and give us our personal pin number.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

I want them to put money kiosh's on every street corner and give us our personal pin number.

I believe they already have. It's called a the Social Services Office.

[justplugit]

Good to see the Repubs first attempt to recind Obamacare wil be
an up or down vote on a 2 page bill next week.
Will force all to show their cards.

The silent majority,will be watching.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

I realize 70% of the people don't want it but the #1 priority should be the Economy.

Do you mean to say that 70% oppose the Health Care Bill?

I've never heard that.

-spence

[justplugit]

Yes, if my memory serves me right, there was a poll out that showed
68-70% of the people polled either opposed it completely or parts
of it.
IMHO it needs to be repealed and re-written in a true bi-partisan bill
which includes Tort Reform, Interstate competition among insurers,and
give Congress the same choices as the American people, not their own special HC.