President Obama Dealt a Blow

[Fly Rod]

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Supreme Court dealt a blow to President Barack Obama's high court nominee Sonia Sotomayor on Monday, overturning a ruling by her that it said would illegally deny promotions to white firefighters based on race.

The 5-4 ruling held that the city of New Haven, Connecticut, violated federal civil rights law when it threw out the results of a promotion exam after it yielded too many qualified white applicants and no acceptable black candidates.

Connecticut comes out with new test that is fair to all. See test questions below to be promoted to Captain. Must get all three questions right to pass

1. What color is the plain paper that you are taking the test on?

2. How many flat sides are there on the test paper?

3. Is the 81/2 x 11 inch paper that your test is on Square or rectangle?

[JohnnyD]

How exactly?

The Supreme court decision came in at 5-4, hardly a clear cut decision. That's why there is a *panel* of judges at the last stop for appeal.

[spence]

That joke is pretty racist.

-spence

[Fly Rod]

That test is far from racist. Even women would have to take the above test. The simplicity of it was taken into consideration just in case a Blonde took the test.

[TheSpecialist]

Honestly the town in question sees the racial makeup of the people who passed the test are predominately white, and the throw out the results and that is not racist?

I am glad the Supreme Court New Haven violated their rights. The 4 who dissented need to be replaced.

[Raven]

i think this was a land mark decision and the correct one.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Raven

i think this was a land mark decision and the correct one.

Agreed.

[Raven]

President Obama Dealt a Blow


More like President Obama did allot of blow.....

[TheSpecialist]

What will ptobably happen next is companies, and states will eliminate testing, so they could makea quota more easily obtainable.

[Swimmer]

This was all settled in the 70's when these discrimination and reverse discrimination suits came about. Apparently Sotomayor likes to overturn case law.

I find it uninque to this case though that the lead plaintiff is dyslexic, (learning disabled) hired a tutor, and in other words busted his arse, which everyone else could have and didn't.

The decision by Sotormayor is racism at its worse, not even disguised or camoflaged. If a white judge ever said, only a white person could truly understand what it is to be white, and that white person could only render a decision based on his whiteness, he/she would be fired. Because she is a latino and a woman, she gets a by. Thats how shallow the democrats are. Those democrats in power look at her with the same disdain and trepidation that many of us are, but those in power know she will never rule on anything that has to do with them and thier families.

[Bocephus]

Apparently quite a few cases that she presided over were overturned. So alot of other people thought her decisions were wrong too. But here she is, being presented to the American public, as the self proclaimed product of affirmative action, to be a part of the highest justice system because she earned it???? If I failed at my job, and had been told repeatedly that my decisions werent good, I dont think Id get a raise. In fact, Id probably be out of a job.
Id like to hear Spence's take on this decision reversal, I enjoy hearing his side of things. Seriously, I do. You cant come to informed decisions when the only people you interact with agree with everything you say.
BTW I dont think the original post was racist, because they were talking about white paper, which is ok.

[spence]

Originally Posted by CanalMike

Apparently quite a few cases that she presided over were overturned. So alot of other people thought her decisions were wrong too. But here she is, being presented to the American public, as the self proclaimed product of affirmative action, to be a part of the highest justice system because she earned it???? If I failed at my job, and had been told repeatedly that my decisions werent good, I dont think Id get a raise. In fact, Id probably be out of a job.

Simply because she has had a few cases overturned (which pretty much all appeals court judges have) doesn't mean she's been "wrong". Remember this is about legal interpretation which can be subjective. 4 of the 5 SCOTUS members voted in her favor on this same case, does this mean they're "wrong" as well and are not qualified to sit on the Supreme Court? Of course it doesn't...

As for the idea that her initial ruling was racist, that's just partisan BS by a party looking to rile the base.

What people don't seem to be talking about is what actually happened in the case, that the test was never certified by the civil service panel because they felt it wasn't legal and left them open to lawsuit.

First, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 clearly and plainly states that business practices that have an "adverse impact" on members of one particular race are illegal except when those practices are demonstrably "job related" and consistent with business necessity. A promotion test where an entire racial group fails, no matter if they are all black or all white, violates Title VII. It did not take Sotomayor very long to rule the way she did, for a very good reason: That part of the Civil Rights Act leaves no room for doubt or question.

Secondly, the company that designed the test failed to follow several standard practices for fire department testing. It failed to set a relevant cutoff for a passing score on the exam -- a big miss.

Lastly, the test was never submitted to New Haven fire officials for review to ensure its relevance to the particular conditions and realities of that particular city. Testing officials knew something was wrong when the racially disparate results from this test were so drastically different from the results from previous fire department tests in New Haven.

If those elements are correct, and I don't have any reason to believe they're not, one could see how an appeals court would reject the case as there wasn't sufficient legal grounds to move forward. I'd note that wasn't a "Sotomayor decision", but rather a 3-0 decision by a panel of judges. They simply stated that the law was clear on this issue and they had to follow the law.

5 members of the Supreme Court obviously disagreed, on the basis that the test while it could be flawed, wasn't done so intentionally etc, etc... you can read the majority opinion in the paper.

I think the SCOTUS made the right decision here so as to not set a dangerous precident, but I do see a strong argument from the other side.

What's the net? This case is walking a pretty fine line legally (in my non legal opinion), but as for racism? Nonsense.

Personally I don't have any issue with her on the Supreme Court. She may not be as high caliber as Roberts, but she's a solid pick.

-spence

[Cool Beans]

I vote Spence "off the island" I'm pretty sure he would be perfectly happy in France or Canada. Any 2nds?

Seriously though it seems ridiculous how he can see the beauty in all things Obama. I think he may actually believe that crap.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

Seriously though it seems ridiculous how he can see the beauty in all things Obama. I think he may actually believe that crap.

Are you responding to anything in specific, or did you just hiccup?

-spence

[Fly Rod]

SPENCE
There were 15 positions to be filled. 118 firefighters were tested, 56 passed the test and 19 scored high enough to be eligible for promotion. Of the 62 that failed they were a mixed group of hispanics, blacks and whites. It was not all of one group that failed, it was a mix, and same is true of those that did pass, so I do not see where the civil rights act of 1964 would come into play where a minority group were neglected.

Of the nineteen that did pass two were hispanic and more then likely one or both would have been promoted.

The fire fighter that brought the suit Frank Ricci has a disability, he is dyslexic and placed sixth. Maybe he should come under the American Disability Act.

You must believe in a quota system. A quota system punishes the majority while sullying the achievement of minorities.

[RIROCKHOUND]

This case aside...
I have no idea how this deals Obama a blow?

Have ANY of Roberts opinions before he was on the SC been overturned, ever???
Did that deal Bush a blow (or some blow )

[Fly Rod]

What dealt Bush a blow was the declining economy, war in Irag, Kitmo and no leadership in the Republican Party and that was witnessed when the soft spoken McCain wouldn't come out fighting during the primaries

I am neither a Democrat nor am I a Republican. I am an Independant.

On the other side you have a far left liberal Democrat who wooed the American voters who has gone back on his promises and who is escalating the war in Afkanistan sending in 21 thousand more troops, said that he was not going to tax the middle class and now he is, and has gone back on his comitment at Kitmo and lied about ACORN of which he has been a strong supporter.

The support for this President has gone from the mid 60's percentile to the mid 50 's percent.

From your writing you seem to be a Democrat, at the moment I will say that you are a little left of center but not a far left liberal. You may still have some common since.

By picking Sotomayor drops him another point on his favoritism such as when he was picking people that did not pay their taxes.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

It was not all of one group that failed, it was a mix, and same is true of those that did pass, so I do not see where the civil rights act of 1964 would come into play where a minority group were neglected.

They felt the test was suspect under Title 7 because all of the black candidates failed, while all (but one) of those who qualified for promotion were white. Context is important here as well as the New Haven fire department apparently has a nasty legacy of racism.

You must believe in a quota system. A quota system punishes the majority while sullying the achievement of minorities.

No, I'm simply for equality.

The funny thing is that I'm not even arguing the reverse discrimination case is wrong, you're just making assumptions.

Rather, I've simply stated that there is a rational counter argument, and the SCOTUS ruling in favor of the plaintiff doesn't do any real damage to Sotomayor's qualifications to be on the Supreme Court.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

They felt the test was suspect under Title 7 because all of the black candidates failed, while all (but one) of those who qualified for promotion were white. Context is important here as well as the New Haven fire department apparently has a nasty legacy of racism.

-spence

was the test not given in English? how is the test suspect if the black candidates all failed, sounds like it's the qualifications of the particular black candidates that are suspect, perhaps they expected affirmative action to "give them a little help" and failed to study...maybe they need to give/take the test in Ebonics?(loved the Clinton years and the whacko ideas) ....CONTEXT? a bunch of firefighters took a test, some did well and some failed, their race/color should have no bearing...libs take the opportunity to fan the flames of racism real or invented, what's new?

the newest lib supreme-to-be and the existing libs on the SC all saw it the same way.....pathetic