Will Obama just let Fargo drown?

[buckman]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090326/...dwest_flooding

Were the hell is the Federal govenment?

[RIROCKHOUND]

It's a red state... so yeah. thats the plan

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Were the hell is the Federal govenment?

What do you expect them to do?

Looks like the Red Cross and a few thousand National Guard troops are already on the scene. The entire state was declared a Federal Disaster Area last week.

Doesn't seem like there's a big risk of life, mostly property. Obama can get out his pen but you're not going to stop a river.

Crazy situation though, at least when Cedar Rapids flooded last year it wasn't 20 freaking degrees!

-spence

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by spence

What do you expect them to do?

Looks like the Red Cross and a few thousand National Guard troops are already on the scene. The entire state was declared a Federal Disaster Area last week.

Doesn't seem like there's a big risk of life, mostly property. Obama can get out his pen but you're not going to stop a river.

Crazy situation though, at least when Cedar Rapids flooded last year it wasn't 20 freaking degrees!

-spence

And yet Bush was to blame for New Orleans.........
He offered help, long before the governor excepted it. But it was all blamed on Bush who made none of the mistakes on the ground, like sending busses to the wrong place. or having the rescue helicopter fly to his residence to get personal items vice rescue people.

Seems like republicans get blamed for the bad, while democrats accept the blame for things gone right.

Example, first 2 months of Obama's presidency stock market loses 1/3 of its value (not his fault) and yet it has a small rebound and Obama is credited by the drive-bys for it.. Total rubish

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

And yet Bush was to blame for New Orleans.........
He offered help, long before the governor excepted it. But it was all blamed on Bush who made none of the mistakes on the ground, like sending busses to the wrong place. or having the rescue helicopter fly to his residence to get personal items vice rescue people.

Seems like republicans get blamed for the bad, while democrats accept the blame for things gone right.

Apples and oranges. You're just trying to make hate.

-spence

[Nebe]

Bush started that flood from the snow fall of 'o8.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Bush started that flood from the snow fall of 'o8.

You are a funny bastard Nebe
I just thought it was a contrast to see the Fargo folks working together to protect what they can. New Orleans.... don't listen to the warnings and then blame someone else for the situation.

[bssb]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

And yet Bush was to blame for New Orleans.........
He offered help, long before the governor excepted it. But it was all blamed on Bush who made none of the mistakes on the ground, like sending busses to the wrong place. or having the rescue helicopter fly to his residence to get personal items vice rescue people.

Seems like republicans get blamed for the bad, while democrats accept the blame for things gone right.

Example, first 2 months of Obama's presidency stock market loses 1/3 of its value (not his fault) and yet it has a small rebound and Obama is credited by the drive-bys for it.. Total rubish

hey, your as crazy as I am. your just on the wrong side

[Cool Beans]

Apples and oranges. You're just trying to make hate.

-spence

Not really, It does seem to happen pretty often. If I am somehow looking at the world upside down and Republicans are all to blame, I'll apologize when proven wrong. Until then this is just my opinion.

[RIROCKHOUND]

See... now your lumping the real wing bats in with the people that think the administration, including Bush, but certainly extending into FEMA botched the handling of Katrina, where Nagin and the Govenor wanted help or not...
I don't think any rational people think GWB was down at the levee wiring explosives himself...



the CIA did it for him

[striperman36]

This is what we pay taxes dollars for IMO, to help those in need.
But neither one , Katrina nor ND, with get anything.
go outside of NOL, its still Afghanistan out there.

[spence]

Originally Posted by striperman36

This is what we pay taxes dollars for IMO, to help those in need.
But neither one , Katrina nor ND, with get anything.
go outside of NOL, its still Afghanistan out there.

Don't know why you'd say that. The entire state of ND has been declared a disaster area which means they're legally entitled to Federal Funds and assistance.

As bad as Fargo is, and it's pretty bad, this is not even close to Katrina.

-spence

[striperman36]

go to La. you tell me, I've been there. I've nailed 2x4s in houses that had been under 20' of water, I've walked on slabs of concrete that had everything that was on it in piles of sorted %$%$%$%$ in the neighborhood streets waiting for months for the EPA to get rid of it. Those piles existed only because of volunteer groups that paid for their own efforts to come and assist in the cleanup because our government didn't have the wherewithal to see outside of the metro area and help their fellow citizens

Fargo has topped the all time recorded flood level of 40.1
with 42' above flood stage and stay there thru Wednesday night. That's worse than katrina. The only thing that makes it anyway near better is that less people live there.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by striperman36

with 42' above flood stage and stay there thru Wednesday night. That's worse than katrina. The only thing that makes it anyway near better is that less people live there.

I don't know if I'd judge the two based on flood height alone...

[spence]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Fargo has topped the all time recorded flood level of 40.1 with 42' above flood stage and stay there thru Wednesday night. That's worse than katrina. The only thing that makes it anyway near better is that less people live there.

Worse under what measurement, that the water was higher? That makes no sense.

When you look at the entire situation, Katrina is much worse in terms of net destruction and suffering.

The population makes a big difference here, as does the slow rise of the river which gives the National Guard, who are on the job, a good amount of lead time to manage the situation.

Sure if your life is upturned it sucks personally, but the thread is about why Obama isn't fixing the situation, which is just a bull%$%$%$%$ argument to fake outrage. Buck and Beans are sounding more and more like Air America every day...

-spence

[buckman]

Obama's going to use this as more proof we need to carbon credits (taxes)

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/235048/

[bssb]

if I remember correctly there were dead bodies in the streets of NO. I'm not sure that the two are comparable. I think the right is just looking for something to blame something on Obama. 9/11, Katrina, Iraq, the economy, all results of republican policies. It would be nice if they had something to blame on the new guy.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by bssb

if I remember correctly there were dead bodies in the streets of NO. I'm not sure that the two are comparable. I think the right is just looking for something to blame something on Obama. 9/11, Katrina, Iraq, the economy, all results of republican policies. It would be nice if they had something to blame on the new guy.

So now 9/11 was the result of Republican policies????

I mean we all know the Republicans caused Katrina

[bssb]

Originally Posted by buckman

So now 9/11 was the result of Republican policies????

I mean we all know the Republicans caused Katrina

Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US was the President's Daily Brief given to U.S. President George W. Bush on August 6, 2001. The President's Daily Brief (PDB) is a brief of important classified information on national security collected by various U.S. intelligence agencies given to the president and a select group of senior officials. The brief warned of terrorism threats from Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda over a month before the September 11, 2001 attacks.[1]

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by bssb

Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US was the President's Daily Brief given to U.S. President George W. Bush on August 6, 2001. The President's Daily Brief (PDB) is a brief of important classified information on national security collected by various U.S. intelligence agencies given to the president and a select group of senior officials. The brief warned of terrorism threats from Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda over a month before the September 11, 2001 attacks.[1]

You're kidding right? Do you realize how many credible threats the president hears each day in his "security briefings".

"Good morning Mr. President, today we have a unstable situation in Venezuela, we also have a destabilization problem in Iran, we've got threats from Iran, Russia, Pakistan, and just this morning, Kim Jong Il, said he "wants to make a pudding from the bones of Americans."

[bssb]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

You're kidding right? Do you realize how many credible threats the president hears each day in his "security briefings".

"Good morning Mr. President, today we have a unstable situation in Venezuela, we also have a destabilization problem in Iran, we've got threats from Iran, Russia, Pakistan, and just this morning, Kim Jong Il, said he "wants to make a pudding from the bones of Americans."

wow, didn't realize you were in on the classified daily security briefings.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

You're kidding right? Do you realize how many credible threats the president hears each day in his "security briefings".

"Good morning Mr. President, today we have a unstable situation in Venezuela, we also have a destabilization problem in Iran, we've got threats from Iran, Russia, Pakistan, and just this morning, Kim Jong Il, said he "wants to make a pudding from the bones of Americans."

Yes, and how many of these threats had pretty good intel stating intent to attack within the United States?

Perhaps highlighting how they dropped the ball was Rice's statement that "had we had any idea" when there were memos from months previous. Talk about spin...

Now I believe that Clinton can and should have done more against Bin Laden, but the rate at which Bush simply ignored the issue...and then used 9/11 as an excuse to do a complete 180 has given this Country a terrible case of whiplash we're going to be recovering from for at least another decade if not longer.

-spence

[Cool Beans]

The big difference I see here is local leaders took charge, made right decisions, and most importanly, the people arent sitting on their butts waiting for Uncle Sam to save them, they are hip deep in freezing water, working together to save what they can. And when it is all over they will put those same values and ethics to work, and rebuild it a lil better than it was before. The mindset of someone in most of the midwest and mountain states is totally different that that of the east coast. If they have a problem, they will work "together", not riot and loot each others homes..... That alone caused alot of the additional property and human casualties from Katrina. That and many of the cops and firemen, leaving. A good friend of mine is a cop there and he was left with 1/2 his guys, doing 10 times more work,, alot of it trying to prevent or stop looters as they didnt have a boat to rescue people, they tried to protect people and property. from looters. I guarantee you will not find a single case of looting a neighbors home in North Dakota.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

The big difference I see here is local leaders took charge, made right decisions, and most importanly, the people arent sitting on their butts waiting for Uncle Sam to save them, they are hip deep in freezing water, working together to save what they can. And when it is all over they will put those same values and ethics to work, and rebuild it a lil better than it was before. The mindset of someone in most of the midwest and mountain states is totally different that that of the east coast. If they have a problem, they will work "together", not riot and loot each others homes..... That alone caused alot of the additional property and human casualties from Katrina. That and many of the cops and firemen, leaving. A good friend of mine is a cop there and he was left with 1/2 his guys, doing 10 times more work,, alot of it trying to prevent or stop looters as they didnt have a boat to rescue people, they tried to protect people and property. from looters. I guarantee you will not find a single case of looting a neighbors home in North Dakota.

Well put.

[Nebe]

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

[striperman36]

heineken in bottles tastes like crap anyway

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

The big difference I see here is local leaders took charge, made right decisions, and most importanly, the people arent sitting on their butts waiting for Uncle Sam to save them, they are hip deep in freezing water, working together to save what they can. And when it is all over they will put those same values and ethics to work, and rebuild it a lil better than it was before. The mindset of someone in most of the midwest and mountain states is totally different that that of the east coast. If they have a problem, they will work "together", not riot and loot each others homes..... That alone caused alot of the additional property and human casualties from Katrina. That and many of the cops and firemen, leaving. A good friend of mine is a cop there and he was left with 1/2 his guys, doing 10 times more work,, alot of it trying to prevent or stop looters as they didnt have a boat to rescue people, they tried to protect people and property. from looters. I guarantee you will not find a single case of looting a neighbors home in North Dakota.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that the normal crime rate in Fargo, ND is dramatically lower than New Orleans, which I believe had the highest murder rate in the USA not all that long ago.

To assert that the people of Mayberry would repond differently to a natural disaster than say Gotham is quite an astonishing observation don't you think?

Funny thing is I grew up in Cedar Rapids, IA which was suffered greatly in the epic floods of last summer. They said the exact same thing about no looting there as well, up until the point when there was some looting.

Most of those still suffering are from the lower income housing that was gutted, and yes, the Public Library is a goner...but there was never a chance of 1000+ dead. 500 year floods don't do that, it has to rain for weeks and you have plenty of warning.

But no, it's easier to claim parity because it highlights a social gap responsible only by socialist policy that's entitled the poor and destroyed their sense of civic duty...right?

-spence

[EarnedStripes44]

If it were up to lake ponchartrain, civil engineering not withstanding, vast swaths of New Orleans would be underwater anyway, storm surge or no storm surge. It was a disaster waiting to happen and it could have been even worse. This leaves even greater reason to fault local & federal officials. They just should have known better.

The nature of epic flooding in the Red River of the North is a different situation given its infrequency and geography.

Equivocating the two scenarios is a stretch.

[bssb]

The declassified intelligence report said the FBI had detected "patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings."

Former counterterrorism aide Richard Clarke had testified before that the White House had ignored warnings about bin Laden's terrorist organization. Clarke said the Bush administration, including Rice, was aware of al Qaeda threats but did not treat them as "urgent."