Guide Weights: Torzite vs Alconite KW

[Fergal]

For any one that might care, all weights in grams.

Torzite
30 - 5.77
25 - 4.00
20 - 2.22
12 - 0.83
8 - 0.39
Entire set: 30-25-20-12-8x4 = 14.43

Alconite
30 - 11.09
25 - 7.43
20 - 3.95
12 - 1.57
8 - 0.67
Entire set: 30-25-20-12-8x4 = 26.71

[chefchris401]

Good info

What's the price per set ?

If I remember correctly the torzites are 2 to 3 times the price

1/2oz over an 11ft rod doesn't seem like much difference
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[Fergal]

Pricey, not I do not think it would matter.

[numbskull]

Are those titanium Torzites vs SS alconites or are both frames the same material?

1/2 oz does matter, although how much depends on the blank's weight and action. Put them on a Harnell and you'd not notice, put them on a Loomis steelhead blank and you'd have a totally different rod.

Hang a 2 oz plug on a rod and hold it out straight. How much does it bend......not much, right? Now look at the shape of the rod during a cast with the same 2 oz plug. How much does it bend.......a lot, right?
How much weight do you need to put on a rod held out strait to bend it as much as 2oz during a cast? Turns out is around 3-5lbs. So those 2 oz are magnified 15-20X during a cast. In other words during peak load on the blank that extra 1/2 oz turns into the equivalent of 1 pound In actuality the load is less because the extra weight is spread along the blank rather than hung from the tip but you get the idea

The rod has to unload against and accelerate this extra mass so 1/2 oz of extra guide weight reduces the maximum potential distance of the cast for any given effort. You have to accelerate that extra pound as well so if you put a maximum effort into the cast you can not move the rod as fast (think how much harder it is to cast a 4 oz plug vs a 3oz plug and you get the idea). Additionally, that extra mass stays on the rod after you release your cast and increases reverberation which can cost distance.

Finally, there is the issue of rod balance. An extra 1/2 oz out the rod requires either a longer butt or heavier reel to balance, or it requires your arm muscles to work harder to counteract the increased tip weight. If you retrieve with the rod straight up and down it is less of an issue, but if you work plugs with the rod off to the side it adds up quick.

Basically, there is no downside other than cost to light guides. For a soft blank like a 1201L using light guides makes a huge difference. For a stiffer rod like a 1205, not so much.

One closing note. You can also cut guide weight by using smaller rather than expensive lighter guides. A surf rod built 25H-12H-8m-8's with alconite will probably fish as light as one built 30-25-20-12-10's with more expensive guides.

[chefchris401]

George your post are always very informative!

Guess I should have been clearer on the 1/2oz not making a difference.

Does make a huge difference on lighter blanks or lighter rods, wasn't sure what size rod/model he was planning on using them on.

I've been using a 25 as my first guide and doing size 6 runners where I can, only an issue when/if I have to restring on a rock in the surf

I had the torzite titaniums on my 11ft cts and that rod weighed nothing, too bad it broke and their CS sucks but that's another story
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[Fergal]

I have used them(torzite) on a few rods.I have a 10' 1-3 CTS VT, the 30 and 25 are double foots, singles the rest of the way. It seems to make a difference on that rod. I have also used them for the runners on other rods. For instance alconite 30-25-20 then torzite the rest of the way. My thought process being that lighter guides out near the tip might make a bit of a difference. Now that I see the actual weights, don't think its that much. Probably not a difference on a 2-6 type rod, and maybe but still probably not a difference on a 1-4 rod.

[pbadad]

I've been waiting for the RV guides to come in an affordable material. They have torzite and alconite now but still ti frames. No SS. I guess their waiting to sell more high end frame guides b/4 offering SS. Building a 1-3 Lami Infinity 10'. KT 8's for runners torzite and reduction in rv and Km frame.

[pbadad]

I got to find me an inexpensive scale that weighs grams to the hundreds.

[chefchris401]

Originally Posted by pbadad

I got to find me an inexpensive scale that weighs grams to the hundreds.

Most gas stations carry em now, for "mailing" usually near the "tobacco" pipes

That's where I got mine $20-25 does grams,oz and two other weights
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[pbadad]

i have 2 but they don't weigh to the tenths or hundreds, i.e. kt8 doesn't even register on my scale. i have to put a few on then divide to find an average weight. i'll check that out.

[Fergal]

Originally Posted by pbadad

I got to find me an inexpensive scale that weighs grams to the hundreds.

try amazon. mine was ~$13 i think.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Fergal

For any one that might care, all weights in grams.

Torzite
30 - 5.77
25 - 4.00
20 - 2.22
12 - 0.83
8 - 0.39
Entire set: 30-25-20-12-8x4 = 14.43

Alconite
30 - 11.09
25 - 7.43
20 - 3.95
12 - 1.57
8 - 0.67
Entire set: 30-25-20-12-8x4 = 26.71

Out of curiosity I priced these sets out.

Titanium torzite = $268
SS Alconite = $44

I'm not implying any judgement here.

[ed morini]

Boy does that put things in perspective. I think I will try some LAG guides for weight reduction.
I must confess that I did build George's 120 1L lowrider, for me only (2011 I think)with a couple of mods, it was expensive for me, but man what a set up. very light running section and a great performer. The lighter tip section was a real eyeopener.

[numbskull]

RV Torzites 25-16-KW10m-KW8x7runners = 12.2 grams
Cost about $320

[pbadad]

Originally Posted by numbskull

RV Torzites 25-16-KW10m-KW8x7runners = 12.2 grams
Cost about $320

George just think, it's still cheaper than a boat! LOL

[numbskull]

Got a set, Billy, to build a gift rod for a generous friend. I simply can't believe how light they are. Pick up the whole set and it feels like nothing (actually weigh less than 1/2 oz). Gonna be spoilers for sure
.

[pbadad]

Let me know how the 10M matches the choke guide . I did a rod last year bought both 10 &12 M 's. Ended up using the 12m. Not rapid choke but a NGC layout. All ti's. RV25, 16, 12M K8 runners. Low weight for sure. Casted and fished excellent.