System three marbelizing - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Back Beach · 03-25-2010, 08:03 AM

Been using system three for a top coat and notice some of my plugs get a marbelized look when the epoxy dries. I'm giving the system three a good 7-10 days hanging next to my furnace, which is around 75-80 degrees.

The only explanation I can come up with is the very small batches I'm mixing up don't allow for any errors in the mixing ratio and the stuff isn't fully curing. Do I need to mix up a lot more product to lessen the odds of this happening or is it something else?

Slipknot · 03-25-2010, 08:28 AM

That's possible
but try not putting it on heavy, go with thin light coats

it should dry in one day in those conditions

Back Beach · 03-25-2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot

but try not putting it on heavy, go with thin light coats

I think that's my problem, I'm putting it all on in one coat to save time, but it likley needs mulitple light coats, just like a fishing rod.

The stuff is drying but still seems a bit soft, even after several days. Will try the mulitple coat method.

I thought my epoxy was coming out pretty decent until those rascals Numbskull and ProfessorM gave me a couple of their plugs.

I remain, the ding dong.

Nebe · 03-25-2010, 09:12 AM

how are you mixing it? try a digital scale- if your pouring into measuring cups, then pouring into a second cup, things can go wrong

Back Beach · 03-25-2010, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe

how are you mixing it? try a digital scale- if your pouring into measuring cups, then pouring into a second cup, things can go wrong

I'm mixing in the small aftcote plastic mixing cups. Been putting in 2 drams of resin and 1 dram of hardener right into the cup, one after the other and no transferring from other sources. Been doing one plug at a time until I get a better drying system setup.

I do have my digital scale I can use to precisely measure the stuff...pretty sure Numby already suggesed I do this, but I forgot.

eastendlu · 03-25-2010, 09:45 AM

Yep sounds like the mix is off i use syringes to meter out the system 3 and it never fails.You can pick up a pair at any drug store mark one hardner and you are all set.

Slipknot · 03-25-2010, 10:25 AM

I use syringes also, a lot more accurate for small batches.

pouring by measurements I would guess need to be about 1 to 3 ounce batches for consistent accuracy.

also be sure to mix long enough, i use a dowel to lessen air bubbles

Grapenuts · 03-25-2010, 11:37 AM

no go on wood sticks...worst thing u can do....use plastic drink sticks......which ever you put in last in your mix is the first thing that gets sucked into the wood and your ratio is now off.

Canalman · 03-25-2010, 12:43 PM

Mike,

Do the plugs feel soft and sticky? Can you sink your thumbnail into the finish? Epoxy takes the same time to cure no matter how thick it is applied, it's a chemical cure, it doesn't dry like paint. I don;t think curing is your problem.

It sounds to me like the mixture of your basement being wet (from all the recent rain) and the fluctuations in temperature from your furnace turning on and off have caused an amine blush to form. (I have had this happen before). Try washing the plugs with warm water with a little bit of dish soap. I bet the weird-looking finish washes away.

Try it.

-Dave

Back Beach · 03-25-2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canalman

Mike,

Do the plugs feel soft and sticky? Can you sink your thumbnail into the finish? Epoxy takes the same time to cure no matter how thick it is applied, it's a chemical cure, it doesn't dry like paint. I don;t think curing is your problem.

It sounds to me like the mixture of your basement being wet (from all the recent rain) and the fluctuations in temperature from your furnace turning on and off have caused an amine blush to form. (I have had this happen before). Try washing the plugs with warm water with a little bit of dish soap. I bet the weird-looking finish washes away.

Try it.

-Dave

Check out the pics below and you can see it.

Nebe · 03-25-2010, 01:20 PM

ah. I bet your tail wrapping after you paint, but before you clearcoat.. that is oil from your hands not allowing the epoxy to stick to the paint- Use latex gloves when you tail wrap, and give a light wipe with isopropal alcohol before you epoxy-

Back Beach · 03-25-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe

ah. I bet your tail wrapping after you paint, but before you clearcoat.. that is oil from your hands not allowing the epoxy to stick to the paint- Use latex gloves when you tail wrap, and give a light wipe with isopropal alcohol before you epoxy-

I think you're onto someting here...only thing is I do my tail wraps after clearcoating, which is when the marbling occurs. The plugs seem to feel a bit tacky when I use my bare hands versus gloves. Perhaps the marbling is actually my palm prints.

This would make it impossible for anyone to ever hawk one of my plugs and claim it as their own creation...they're encrypted!

In all seriousness I think you may have nailed it, Eben.

eastendlu · 03-25-2010, 03:28 PM

So you are handeling the plugs before the epoxy is fully cured?

thefishingfreak · 03-25-2010, 05:29 PM

use the 2 cup system.
However you mix it, pour the mixed batch in a second clean cup and then use it from that cup.
If you look in the first cup after it cures, I bet the bottom corners are still liquid.

it's impossible to fully mix anything with only one cup.

numbskull · 03-25-2010, 06:01 PM

I had trouble with silicone in syringes
Small batches of system 3 are very fussy. Weigh it 4.3:10 ratio.
Wood sticks absorb hardner, use metal/plastic and wipe it and your cups with alcohol first.
Add resin to hardner, not vice versa. The resin is lighter and you get a better mix.
Heat it when drying. 90-100 degrees is good. The stuff will harden colder, but it takes several days and usually you can't stand to wait that long to finish them.
Pray.

fumifish · 03-25-2010, 06:48 PM

i knew plugs are tough to make but fark!!

props to all the basement plug shops and the com guys. thank you

jkswimmer · 03-25-2010, 10:17 PM

I like the look of the blue one.

Back Beach · 03-26-2010, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastendlu

So you are handeling the plugs before the epoxy is fully cured?

Been giving it about one week before I handle them, at least. I assembled a few last night with nitrile gloves on and the marbling wasn't as bad.

eastendlu · 03-26-2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Been giving it about one week before I handle them, at least. I assembled a few last night with nitrile gloves on and the marbling wasn't as bad.

If the finish was not hard after 72 hours then the mix ratio was not correct as the finish should of been cured. You can lightly scuff one of those plugs and mix a new batch of epoxy and put on a thin coat over it.

Back Beach · 03-26-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastendlu

If the finish was not hard after 72 hours then the mix ratio was not correct as the finish should of been cured. You can lightly scuff one of those plugs and mix a new batch of epoxy and put on a thin coat over it.

The system three is much more fickle than aftcote or any of the rod builder's stuff I've used, for sure.

The finish isn't bad enough to want to mess with it any further, but I will use a digital scale to get ratios exact from now on.

ProfessorM · 03-26-2010, 09:46 AM

I think the term used is Amine blush. It does happen from time to time with that product but I don't fret too much. It is kind of rare and I have not had it happen this year, yet. I don't change anything I do I just chalk it up to the PIA that epoxy is. You can recoat but I just fish them, especially if they are for me. Like stated don't touch your paint with a naked hand before you coat. I handle my plugs with paper towels and rubber gloves as i install all grommets before epoxy, wire after.

The Epoxy Blush / Amine Blush Page - Progessional Grade Marine Epoxies

Canalman · 03-26-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Check out the pics below and you can see it.

That's blush all the way, 100% positive

Amine Blush is water soluble and can be simply wiped away using warm, soapy water and a rag.

Back Beach · 03-26-2010, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canalman

That's blush all the way, 100% positive

Amine Blush is water soluble and can be simply wiped away using warm, soapy water and a rag.

I wiped one down last night with soap and warm water...it did alleviate most of the cloudiness. Thanks again.

Swimmer · 03-26-2010, 01:23 PM

I use the red stirrir sticks from Dunks. Grab a handful once in awhile and that should suffice.

Back Beach · 04-07-2010, 05:42 AM

Took a bunch of the good advice here and employed it with much better results:

1. Nitrile gloves worn for assembly instead of bare hands.

2. Precision mixing and bigger batches.

3. Kept plugs in warm room after finishing, but away from furnace.

4. Plastic stirrer instead of popsicle stick.

Stuff is hard as a rock after 72 hours with no obvious marbling. Will wait until they go in the water before I declare victory as much of the marbling was occurring after I dunked the plugs.