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Old 11-14-2017, 03:48 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by spence View Post
In that case the beer is the emotional issue and the car the weapon. Hence why we have laws against drunk driving regardless if you hurt another person or not.
We have laws against shooting people too, both are about equally as effective. Keeps the people who know better from doing it.
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:01 PM   #182
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Semi-auto detachable magazine rifles -- sometimes refereed to as "assault weapons"-- are NOT machineguns under any applicable law . . . Which again forces me to ask, why are you bringing full-auto guns into the conversation?
Because a court finding for an individual right doesn't validate anything and certainly doesn't justify inaction on solving a very real public health issue.

You can cut and paste all day long, the problem is just getting worse as you spin around and around.
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:43 PM   #183
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Because a court finding for an individual right doesn't validate anything and certainly doesn't justify inaction on solving a very real public health issue.

You can cut and paste all day long, the problem is just getting worse as you spin around and around.
Doing something about health problems is either preventing them or curing them. So, since you frame gun deaths as a health issue, what should be done to cure or prevent the even greater "very real public health issue" of gun deaths and injuries due to hand guns?
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:29 PM   #184
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Doing something about health problems is either preventing them or curing them. So, since you frame gun deaths as a health issue, what should be done to cure or prevent the even greater "very real public health issue" of gun deaths and injuries due to hand guns?
It's just like fisheries management. Need a systems driven solution. The problem is the true believers would rather kill the debate than level up and drive any change.
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:31 PM   #185
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Hey . . . wdmso, you don't like verbal gymnastics . . . how about this doozie provided by Spence?:

"In that case the beer is the emotional issue and the car the weapon. Hence why we have laws against drunk driving regardless if you hurt another person or not."
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:35 PM   #186
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Ooops . . . wdmso . . . you gotta like this one!! should be worth a 10 on the Olympic verbal gymnastics scale (again, provided by the ever reliable Spence):

"It's just like fisheries management. Need a systems driven solution. The problem is the true believers would rather kill the debate than level up and drive any change."
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:42 PM   #187
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We have laws against murder also. If those were prosecuted and sentenced accordingly, then maybe it would help as a deterrent but murderers go free and law abiding citizens have the screws put to them.

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:44 PM   #188
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Spence , you are not going to solve the human condition with that kind of wordsmithing.

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:04 PM   #189
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We have laws against murder also. If those were prosecuted and sentenced accordingly, then maybe it would help as a deterrent but murderers go free and law abiding citizens have the screws put to them.
Extreme hyperbole.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:07 PM   #190
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Spence , you are not going to solve the human condition with that kind of wordsmithing.
Expand on the human condition in this context.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:19 PM   #191
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Ooops . . . wdmso . . . you gotta like this one!! should be worth a 10 on the Olympic verbal gymnastics scale (again, provided by the ever reliable Spence):

"It's just like fisheries management. Need a systems driven solution. The problem is the true believers would rather kill the debate than level up and drive any change."
Takes gymnast to recognize a gymnast
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:29 PM   #192
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Takes gymnast to recognize a gymnast
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In one brief stroke of the keyboard you admit that Spence is a verbal gymnast AND that you also are one since you recognize gymnasts AND that you are also a hypocrite who calls out someone for the very thing you are.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:36 PM   #193
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In one brief stroke of the keyboard you admit that Spence is a verbal gymnast AND that you also are one since you recognize gymnasts AND that you are also a hypocrite who calls out someone for the very thing you are.
Pot meet kettle.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:46 PM   #194
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Pot meet kettle.
Right back at ya. I was already identified as a kettle or pot by another kettle or pot--so welcome to the huddle. You can be a pot or a kettle. Or both--meet yourself--look in mirror.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:54 PM   #195
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Right back at ya. I was already identified as a kettle or pot by another kettle or pot--so welcome to the huddle. You can be a pot or a kettle. Or both--meet yourself--look in mirror.
You sound a lot like Jeff Sessions testifying before Congress today.
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:30 PM   #196
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OK, so the Mini-14 is safe then

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Old 11-14-2017, 07:54 PM   #197
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OK, so the Mini-14 is safe then
at this time, for now

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:40 PM   #198
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Didn’t take long for another nut with a semi auto rifle to add to the death toll for November’s carnage. I guess we can all this one a “mini” mass murder, I guess he’s just a bad shot or not good under pressure.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:27 PM   #199
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Because a court finding for an individual right doesn't validate anything and certainly doesn't justify inaction on solving a very real public health issue.
That's a peculiar phrasing. It demonstrates a profound ignorance of the law.

I'm not arguing the "individual right" determination validates anything or that it justifies inaction. I argue that it invalidates the BS theories that justified gun control action. Whatever inaction is forced is simply respecting the limits of governmental power inherently demanded by the Constitution.

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You can cut and paste all day long, the problem is just getting worse as you spin around and around.
How pathetic.

No matter how you spin it, me proving you to be wrong is not perpetuating the problem of criminal gun use.

You can denigrate my proof as mere cut-n-paste, you can call it spin, but that doesn't change the fact that you are wrong, irreconcilably wrong on the law. It's past time to admit you have no argument that the Constitution or the law supports you or your gun control agenda.

You need to come up with solutions that do not implicate the right to arms . . . Or you need to come clean and admit that you don't give a crap about the Constitution and you would eagerly vote for people who would violate their oaths to uphold it.

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Allowing an illegal border crosser to stay in the US with amnesty and start the legal immigration process
is like allowing a bank robber to go free and keep the money as long as he fills out a loan application.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:37 PM   #200
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Didn’t take long for another nut with a semi auto rifle to add to the death toll for November’s carnage. I guess we can all this one a “mini” mass murder, I guess he’s just a bad shot or not good under pressure.
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The point being a "Mini" doesn't look like a black effing gun so people leave it alone.

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Old 11-14-2017, 10:44 PM   #201
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Didn’t take long for another nut with a semi auto rifle to add to the death toll for November’s carnage. I guess we can all this one a “mini” mass murder, I guess he’s just a bad shot or not good under pressure.
California has nearly every law on the gun controllers wish-list.

Permit to buy then a 10 day waiting period to take possession of the gun, full gun and owner registration, "assault weapon" and hi-cap magazine ban, restricted carry laws, universal background checks / no private sales.

All those laws but no actual people with the balls to actually get guns out of the hands of bad people who are legally forbidden to own them.

It's so much easier to pass another law that only impacts those least likely to do anything wrong with a gun . . .



Allowing an illegal border crosser to stay in the US with amnesty and start the legal immigration process
is like allowing a bank robber to go free and keep the money as long as he fills out a loan application.
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Old 11-15-2017, 07:48 AM   #202
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California has nearly every law on the gun controllers wish-list.

Permit to buy then a 10 day waiting period to take possession of the gun, full gun and owner registration, "assault weapon" and hi-cap magazine ban, restricted carry laws, universal background checks / no private sales.

All those laws but no actual people with the balls to actually get guns out of the hands of bad people who are legally forbidden to own them.

It's so much easier to pass another law that only impacts those least likely to do anything wrong with a gun . . .


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Old 11-15-2017, 08:23 AM   #203
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California has nearly every law on the gun controllers wish-list.
And last time I checked had one of the lowest firearm death rates of any state.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:37 AM   #204
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That's a peculiar phrasing. It demonstrates a profound ignorance of the law.
It's an application of the thought process to justify an outcome...or lack of one thereof.

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No matter how you spin it, me proving you to be wrong is not perpetuating the problem of criminal gun use.
Ha, OK Jim. Are you dressed all in white as well?

Quote:
You can denigrate my proof as mere cut-n-paste, you can call it spin, but that doesn't change the fact that you are wrong, irreconcilably wrong on the law. It's past time to admit you have no argument that the Constitution or the law supports you or your gun control agenda.

You need to come up with solutions that do not implicate the right to arms . . . Or you need to come clean and admit that you don't give a crap about the Constitution and you would eagerly vote for people who would violate their oaths to uphold it.
If the law was so clear there would be no debate. The bigger issue is that the idea of "arms" is not a monolithic thing...yet it's treated as one by some to maintain a divine sensibility intended to kill all progression.

First, you have to admit there's a problem you want to change.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:46 AM   #205
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And last time I checked had one of the lowest firearm death rates of any state.
and Yet.....

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/1...in-california/

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Old 11-15-2017, 09:02 AM   #206
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Certainly not immune...the rate of mass shootings is going up nationwide.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:06 AM   #207
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...gs-in-america/

"Twenty-seven percent of the mass shootings occurred in workplaces, and 1 in 8 took place at schools. Others took place in religious, military, retail and restaurant or other locations. California has had more mass shootings than any other state, with 21. While some locations have simply become shorthand for the tragedies that occurred there, others have added tragic phrases to the national vocabulary."

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Old 11-15-2017, 09:31 AM   #208
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Laws are already in place should have prevented the last two mass shootings....texas murderer should not have been allowed to purchase firearms by law. and the other murderer from ca had a restraining order against him, was arrested for stabbing a woman in January and supposedly was recently firing many rounds in his neighborhood - I think there were many laws on the books to keep this chithead from possessing firearms. what would more unenforced laws on the books do?

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Old 11-15-2017, 09:48 AM   #209
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State firearm death rates, 2013. Rate per 100,000 population. National firearm death rate is 10.64.[2][3]

Alabama 17.79
Alaska 19.59
Arizona 14.20
Arkansas 16.93
California 7.89
Colorado 11.75
Connecticut 4.48
Delaware 10.80
Florida 12.49
Georgia 12.63
Hawaii 2.71
Idaho 14.08
Illinois 8.67
Indiana 13.04
Iowa 8.19
Kansas 11.44
Kentucky 14.15
Louisiana 19.15
Maine 11.89
Maryland 9.75
Massachusetts 3.18
Michigan 12.03
Minnesota 7.88
Mississippi 17.55
Missouri 14.56
Montana 16.94
Nebraska 8.99
Nevada 14.16
New Hampshire 7.03
New Jersey 5.69
New Mexico 15.63
New York 4.39
North Carolina 12.42
North Dakota 11.89
Ohio 11.14
Oklahoma 16.41
Oregon 11.76
Pennsylvania 11.36
Rhode Island 5.33
South Carolina 15.60
South Dakota 9.47
Tennessee 15.86
Texas 10.50
Utah 11.69
Vermont 10.37
Virginia 10.46
Washington 9.07
West Virginia 15.10
Wisconsin 9.93
Wyoming 17.51
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:59 AM   #210
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Who compiled that list?
Illinois is below average while Alaska and Montana are double the average, something seems fishy.
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