Roy Moore / Al Franken

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

a sexually pure Mike Spence

that was great

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually, the record is pretty clear. That you don't see it is disturbing.

yeah...Clinton served two terms, Ted=decades( 46 years)(and there are many more names to be added to that list)...Moore never made it to Washington and Trump hasn't even been there a year...might not make 2 years the way he's going

[scottw]

[QUOTE=detbuch;1133512]It was acceptable 50 years ago to abandon a woman to die in an auto that you had driven into the water?/QUOTE]

well...if you were a democrat...and then you got to run for president...I know...it sounds crazy...right??

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And the cons. just elected a pervert to the most important position in the world when they had many different option and 650K Alabamians voted for a perverted pedophile who was so bad malls banned him. You use 2 examples and I've shown you which states treat woman worse - most are run by conserv. and have voted cons. for years and years. They are responsible for the laws and policies which seems to hurt women more than the states which are run and voted left. Which sample is larger and thus more credible?

The assaults by Clinton and Kennedy took place decades ago, yes. But the willingness of democrat leaders to ignore thisebtransgressions contnued right up until election night of 2016, when the gop elected a reptile and the clintons simultaneously became of zero value. In that second, liberals claimed to care about perversion. If Hilary had won, we would not be having this conversation.

Let’s investigate the claims of trumps accusers. If he did any of it, then we should deal with it, but not until then. I fail to see how that is unfair.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Sorry I'm not buying into your assessment of his performance to date.

I didn't think you would. But that would be the important discussion. This sudden outbreak of sexual accusations are ploys to regain power for the Dems. It doesn't impress me as a reason to vote for who I think will transform this country into something far worse than having lotharios in Congress.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Men of character don't need to bully their way to the top and even if in the back of their minds they still believe men to be superior to women; they would never sexually harass, inappropriately touch or even consider raping a woman. I think any man who can beat a women or child, sexually harass or go so far as rape a woman; are cowards and not men at all.

Shame on either the left or right for contributing to this inappropriate behavior and double shame on those willing to stand by and say nothing or even promote a known abuser to a position where he can do more harm. To see the GOP do the right thing initially by not backing Moore, only to put their tails between their legs, when the poster boy abuser and bully asks them to back Moore is so gutless and lacks vision.

To those that say why now, why bring these up know, this has to be a politically motivated ploy of all made up accusations; I would say you probably don't know anyone who has gone through it at a younger age. I personally know three women who confided in me in their 40's that they were raped as teenagers or young women and not one brought accusations or charges due to the climate, the person involved and the crippling fear nobody would believe them.

It's common place for rape victims to become victims again, they are accused of dressing slutty, or by their actions (usually viewed from a man/pigs perspective) as asking for it and they are traumatized once again. One of these women was and is still to this day scared for life and will never recover due to the circumstances.

The fact that these victims are suddenly now coming forward has much to do with their feeling of community, this metoo movement seems to have empowered women who might not have spoken out, to shed the dark cloud hanging over them for decades. Are there some false accusations out their, there probably are a small percentage, as there would be for any accusations of wrong doing. I believe the majority and while I can't speak for others, any serious accusations on either side of the isle should be looked into and dealt with.

Looking back in the rear view mirror to attempt to judge today's actions based on past presidents, congressmen or senators makes no sense IMHO. Everyone used to own slaves, we grew up and decided that wasn't right and had a civil war over it. It wasn't all that long ago women weren't able to vote, we grew up and changed that. Wasn't long ago it was back of the buss for anyone of color, again we as a society have evolved. Times change and what might have been acceptable in the good old days for our fathers or our grandfathers, just isn't today.

Good strong men of character likely didn't abuse 40 years ago, 20 years ago or ten years from now; those that do shouldn't be elected officials. It was wrong for Ted Kennedy, wrong for Bill Clinton, Bill Cosby and the fact we have a president who likely would fit right into that fraternity is a sad state of the nation.

I agree with much of this, but of course the current liberal concern about sexual harassment is politically motivated. If Hilary had won, the libs would still have a vested interest in protecting her, and I promise we would not be having this conversation. This is only happening because the kennedysbwith double digit IQs are all gone, and the clintons outlived their usefulness, and because of trump.

I don’t like the idea of punishing anyone based on accusations. Investigate trump, if he committed a crime make him face the consequences for once. If Lisa Bloom was trying to help accusers get rich for making accusations, that tarnished the credibility of the accusers. Right or wrong, it does.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm going to just set with this...good lord.

Go cry a river
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

1960s 2017 its that easy


whats was acceptable then and now are not the same but i get it lets throw mud from 50 years ago

Have you actually been paying attention to anything except CNN? The implication that the Democratic Party has been clean for 50 years shows you have drank a lot of kool aid
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[Jim in CT]

Wdmso, as recently as the fall of 2016, most liberals wouldn’t dare to criticize the clintons or the kennedys. Yes, the underlying acts were old, but up until last year, even militant liberal feminists like Gloria Allred defended the clintons and the kennedys. Up until last year, liberals very clearly put party politics ahead of women’s rights, so let’s stop acting like the practice ended decades ago. And if Hilary hadn’t lost, there would not be this fervor about outing abusers of women, and that’s fact. It wasn’t until Hilary lost that the DNC and the media decided that sexual harassment was bad. I’m supposed to believe that’s a coincidence?
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

Still don't. I've spent plenty of time there. Down south in general...have a pretty good read on things.

Sometimes you do, sometimes you think you do. But most people down that way that I know, many good people BTW, would take umbrage to when someone responds to something with "Have you ever been to Alabama?"

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The assaults by Clinton and Kennedy took place decades ago, yes. But the willingness of democrat leaders to ignore thisebtransgressions contnued right up until election night of 2016, when the gop elected a reptile and the clintons simultaneously became of zero value. In that second, liberals claimed to care about perversion. If Hilary had won, we would not be having this conversation.

Let’s investigate the claims of trumps accusers. If he did any of it, then we should deal with it, but not until then. I fail to see how that is unfair.
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How do you prove before an election without trial / investigation by proper law enforcement agencies? How do you handle allegations that are personally or politically motivated? Unfortunately these allegations on a politician must be proven but if they are not proven they can still taint an election and if real and not proven then they unfairly burden the victim. Slippery slope, here is highspeedlowdrag graphite for you rails.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Up until last year, liberals very clearly put party politics ahead of women’s rights, so let’s stop acting like the practice ended decades ago.
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How sure are you this has changed: Up until last year? At least by those at the levers of power?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Sometimes you do, sometimes you think you do. But most people down that way that I know, many good people BTW, would take umbrage to when someone responds to something with "Have you ever been to Alabama?"



How do you prove before an election without trial / investigation by proper law enforcement agencies? How do you handle allegations that are personally or politically motivated? Unfortunately these allegations on a politician must be proven but if they are not proven they can still taint an election and if real and not proven then they unfairly burden the victim. Slippery slope, here is highspeedlowdrag graphite for you rails.





How sure are you this has changed: Up until last year? At least by those at the levers of power?

"How do you prove before an election without trial / investigation by proper law enforcement agencies?"
You don't. You can't. You can't prove guilt or innocence, which is why our country can boast the presumption of innocence. I say if all we have is accusations, let the election proceed, no one should be forced to back out. Then if an investigation/trial shows wrongdoing, they have to resign. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than incentivizing false accusations in every election..

"if they are not proven they can still taint an election and if real and not proven then they unfairly burden the victim. Slippery slope, here is highspeedlowdrag graphite for you rails."

Ugly, ugly business.

"How sure are you this has changed: Up until last year? At least by those at the levers of power"

Now that the GOP elected a possible (likely) pervert as POTIS, and moreso now that the Clintons are suddenly expendable, the liberals and the media can crow about caring.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The assaults by Clinton and Kennedy took place decades ago, yes. But the willingness of democrat leaders to ignore thisebtransgressions contnued right up until election night of 2016, when the gop elected a reptile and the clintons simultaneously became of zero value. In that second, liberals claimed to care about perversion. If Hilary had won, we would not be having this conversation.

Sexual harassment wasn't the same issue it was in the 1990's like it is today. Trump certainly has super charged the movement. As for Clinton, he paid a dear price for his very unethical relationship even back then.

But Bill wasn't running in 2016 and to hold his issues against Hillary wouldn't be fair to her at all.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Sexual harassment wasn't the same issue it was in the 1990's like it is today.

it was for the victims....

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

it was for the victims....

I think you can dig a little deeper than that.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Sexual harassment wasn't the same issue it was in the 1990's like it is today. Trump certainly has super charged the movement. As for Clinton, he paid a dear price for his very unethical relationship even back then.

But Bill wasn't running in 2016 and to hold his issues against Hillary wouldn't be fair to her at all.

It wasn’t the same issue for liberals, last year, as it is today. The difference? The pervert in the Oval Office is a republican, so now all of a sudden, mistreating women is bad. If Hilary had won, your side would still be ignoring this. As with most things, liberal outrage on this issue is very selective, which means it’s fake.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

But Bill wasn't running in 2016 and to hold his issues against Hillary wouldn't be fair to her at all.

Hilary lied to protect Bill ( blaming the cast right wing conspiracy for framing him), and Hilary used her platform as First Lady to slut shame his victims on national tv. True or false?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I think you can dig a little deeper than that.

In other words, he’s got you and you know you can’t respond.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It wasn’t the same issue for liberals, last year, as it is today. The difference? The pervert in the Oval Office is a republican, so now all of a sudden, mistreating women is bad. If Hilary had won, your side would still be ignoring this. As with most things, liberal outrage on this issue is very selective, which means it’s fake.
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it wasn't the same issue for anyone liberal or conservative... But Trump , Harvey Weinstein, bill o'reilly ,roger ailes, Rupert Murdoch. got caught with their pants down now its everyone's issue

and your stuck on Bill Clinton

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

it wasn't the same issue for anyone liberal or conservative... But Trump , Harvey Weinstein, bill o'reilly ,roger ailes, Rupert Murdoch. got caught with their pants down now its everyone's issue

and your stuck on Bill Clinton

curious choice of characters there given the field...Clinton actually had his pants down...when did Trump have his pants down?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

it wasn't the same issue for anyone liberal or conservative... But Trump , Harvey Weinstein, bill o'reilly ,roger ailes, Rupert Murdoch. got caught with their pants down now its everyone's issue

and your stuck on Bill Clinton

No, I am focusing on Hilary now. She lied to protect bill, and she slut shamed his victims on national tv. And the people who supported her and her husband, lecture me about voting for trump. Spare me the fake moral outrage.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

No, I am focusing on Hilary now. She lied to protect bill, and she slut shamed his victims on national tv. And the people who supported her and her husband, lecture me about voting for trump. Spare me the fake moral outrage.
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He won't understand your point
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

He won't understand your point
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He has no point. He is obsessed with the Clintons ( a wife defending her husband and that sprites you) a
He refuses to live in the present . Or accept the reality of who's involved in this current round of bad behavior .. he sees accusers of republicans as conspiracy. But accusers of democratics are truthfull and rightous and prove liberalism is the cause. power is the cause of sexual harassment and assault not party but that's lost on john

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Hilary lied to protect Bill ( blaming the cast right wing conspiracy for framing him), and Hilary used her platform as First Lady to slut shame his victims on national tv. True or false?
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So Monica wasn't coached to not was herbr blue dress ?


http://www.famous-trials.com/clinton/889-lewinskydress

[Sea Dangles]

Thank you for proving my point
Comprehension and context escape you
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

it wasn't the same issue for anyone liberal or conservative... But Trump , Harvey Weinstein, bill o'reilly ,roger ailes, Rupert Murdoch. got caught with their pants down now its everyone's issue

and your stuck on Bill Clinton

I am only surprised it was this quick to get to DJT. I figured they would wait a couple weeks.

For the record, never sexually assaulted or worse anyone. Don't condone it and don't vote (knowingly) for people proven to have. We as a nation need to be real careful about this because people will use this as leverage against legit and innocent people (difficult for me to use politicians as innocent in the same context.

The technology on the near horizon will allow bad guys to impersonate people both audibly and visually blurring reality from technology and the most honest people will be under pressure from this

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So Monica wasn't coached to not was herbr blue dress ?


http://www.famous-trials.com/clinton/889-lewinskydress

Is this what aboutism? Oh, that's right, you've done a bunch of what aboutism on other posts, but it's only bad when other's do it.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

He has no point. He is obsessed with the Clintons ( a wife defending her husband and that sprites you) a
He refuses to live in the present . Or accept the reality of who's involved in this current round of bad behavior .. he sees accusers of republicans as conspiracy. But accusers of democratics are truthfull and rightous and prove liberalism is the cause. power is the cause of sexual harassment and assault not party but that's lost on john

So, is Roy Moore doing his bad sex stuff in the present? Is Trump doing his bad sex stuff in the present?

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I am only surprised it was this quick to get to DJT. I figured they would wait a couple weeks.

For the record, never sexually assaulted or worse anyone. Don't condone it and don't vote (knowingly) for people proven to have. We as a nation need to be real careful about this because people will use this as leverage against legit and innocent people (difficult for me to use politicians as innocent in the same context.

The technology on the near horizon will allow bad guys to impersonate people both audibly and visually blurring reality from technology and the most honest people will be under pressure from this

Your last point highlights one of the most dangerous challenge we all have moving forward, technology allows anyone anywhere to put on the internet whatever message they want; the Russians have known that for years. Now that it might not be as free as it once was, who knows how that is going to factor in, unless the law suits being brought forward are effective in reversing that.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

No, I am focusing on Hilary now. She lied to protect bill, and she slut shamed his victims on national tv. And the people who supported her and her husband, lecture me about voting for trump. Spare me the fake moral outrage.
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...iously-attack/

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by spence

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...iously-attack/

please dont bring facts into this are you crazy!!!