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Old 07-09-2017, 07:01 PM   #1
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G20 Summit

Really Trump wants to form a joint cyber terrorist task force with Putin? Talk about inviting the fox into the hen house. All the focus on Trump and Putin takes away from the real issues. Putin of course is eating it up like candy, his nations economy isn't strong, doubt they are even in the top ten, so this type of attention and the US forced to deal with his crap plays right into his hands.

The real issue IMHO is the US stepping back from leading and adopting a policy of isolation; the west against the east rhetoric is a dangerous path. Dig out your knight armor boys, Trump is going on a crusade. I get that we need strong borders. I get that most of these nut jobs are coming from Muslim countries, but the dangerous crap coming out of his mouth at times just blows my mind. I've said it before the radicals need only cut and past from Trumps speeches and tweets to get all the recruiting advertising they want.

I'd be more concerned about North Korea than Russian any day of the week. That situation is going to get out of hand.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:02 AM   #2
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Really Trump wants to form a joint cyber terrorist task force with Putin? Talk about inviting the fox into the hen house. All the focus on Trump and Putin takes away from the real issues. Putin of course is eating it up like candy, his nations economy isn't strong, doubt they are even in the top ten, so this type of attention and the US forced to deal with his crap plays right into his hands.

The real issue IMHO is the US stepping back from leading and adopting a policy of isolation; the west against the east rhetoric is a dangerous path. Dig out your knight armor boys, Trump is going on a crusade. I get that we need strong borders. I get that most of these nut jobs are coming from Muslim countries, but the dangerous crap coming out of his mouth at times just blows my mind. I've said it before the radicals need only cut and past from Trumps speeches and tweets to get all the recruiting advertising they want.

I'd be more concerned about North Korea than Russian any day of the week. That situation is going to get out of hand.
Putin is clobbering the **** out of ISIS in Syria. It's a complicated part of the world. Putin hates jihadists...not for the right reasons, perhaps, but he hates them.

"the radicals need only cut and past from Trumps speeches and tweets to get all the recruiting advertising they want."

They recruited plenty when Obama was POTUS. You can't construct national security policy around the goal of being so nice to terrorists, that they need to create their own propaganda for recruiting. Obama killed plenty of terrorists, with plenty of collateral damage, with drone strikes. You don't think they used that for recruiting?
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:44 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Got Stripers View Post
Really Trump wants to form a joint cyber terrorist task force with Putin? Talk about inviting the fox into the hen house. All the focus on Trump and Putin takes away from the real issues. Putin of course is eating it up like candy, his nations economy isn't strong, doubt they are even in the top ten, so this type of attention and the US forced to deal with his crap plays right into his hands.
Yes - that was particularly dumb - joint cyber task force. Beyond stupid on the surface. What would happen is each would send their best people to gather info and their people least likely to share anything valuable.

In all fairness, some "joint" centers for yadayaydayada are beneficial .

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The real issue IMHO is the US stepping back from leading and adopting a policy of isolation; the west against the east rhetoric is a dangerous path. Dig out your knight armor boys, Trump is going on a crusade. I get that we need strong borders. I get that most of these nut jobs are coming from Muslim countries, but the dangerous crap coming out of his mouth at times just blows my mind. I've said it before the radicals need only cut and past from Trumps speeches and tweets to get all the recruiting advertising they want.
The real issue is the US is stepping back? Leading from behind? Abdicating a leadership role in the world?


And I suppose this started in January 2017?

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I'd be more concerned about North Korea than Russian any day of the week. That situation is going to get out of hand.
NORKs really suck but they do know that if they nuke us they die.

Russia is the existential threat and has been since the 1960s. Gee - looks like Romney was right and Obama wrong. Had a few more people voted for him we might not be in these problems today and we wouldn't have Trump. Wonder if any media reflect on that.

Russia might not have much to lose. They aren't a top 10 economy. They have a GDP per capita 1/7 of ours. China with a billion poor has almost as much GDP per capita. Russia has the economic might of Mexico but with 10,000 nukes.

They have a declining population, dying younger every year, rampant drugs, alcohol, and disease.

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Putin is clobbering the **** out of ISIS in Syria. It's a complicated part of the world. Putin hates jihadists...not for the right reasons, perhaps, but he hates them.
Errr, Putin is clobbering the crap out of Anti-Asad fighters and calling them "ISIS" but he is not focusing on ISIS as we are.

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"the radicals need only cut and past from Trumps speeches and tweets to get all the recruiting advertising they want."
Jim - this only happens when Republican governments do it. After bush, for 8 years, there was no recruitment. BOOM in January it started again.


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They recruited plenty when Obama was POTUS. You can't construct national security policy around the goal of being so nice to terrorists, that they need to create their own propaganda for recruiting. Obama killed plenty of terrorists, with plenty of collateral damage, with drone strikes. You don't think they used that for recruiting?
Just didn't get reported so it didn't happen.

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Old 07-10-2017, 09:02 AM   #4
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Errr, Putin is clobbering the crap out of Anti-Asad fighters and calling them "ISIS" but he is not focusing on ISIS as we are.

Jim - this only happens when Republican governments do it. After bush, for 8 years, there was no recruitment. BOOM in January it started again.


Just didn't get reported so it didn't happen.
Correct, John, he is killing ISIS fighters to help his pal Assad, not because it's the right thing to do. You are 100% correct. But I think some of the people Putin is fighting, really are ISIS, no? Some of them are non-terrorists who want to get rid of Assad, but some are genuinely ISIS I thought?

"Jim - this only happens when Republican governments do it. After bush, for 8 years, there was no recruitment. BOOM in January it started again"

It really is amazing that anyone could say that with a straight face. The POTUS is supposed to be cordial to terrorists, so that they can't use his speeches as recruiting tools.

Here's all the recruitment that they will ever need...we let our women go to school, we don't force them to dress like ninjas, we don't mutilate their genitals. That's all they need.

Obama claimed that his softer tone would make them hate us less. Jimmy Carter though the same exact thing with his pacifism. They were both wrong.
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:43 AM   #5
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Correct, John, he is killing ISIS fighters to help his pal Assad, not because it's the right thing to do. You are 100% correct. But I think some of the people Putin is fighting, really are ISIS, no? Some of them are non-terrorists who want to get rid of Assad, but some are genuinely ISIS I thought?
Sadly the majority Putin is killing is Anti-Asad people. He calls them ISIS in order to taint world opinion against the anti-Asad folks. Syria is Game of Thrones in real life. ISIS was not in Allepo

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/w...e-working.html

ISW has perhaps the best and most unvarnished reporting of what is happening in Syria

http://iswresearch.blogspot.com/search/label/Syria

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"Jim - this only happens when Republican governments do it. After bush, for 8 years, there was no recruitment. BOOM in January it started again"

It really is amazing that anyone could say that with a straight face. The POTUS is supposed to be cordial to terrorists, so that they can't use his speeches as recruiting tools.
The /sarc was silent, understood

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Old 07-10-2017, 06:36 PM   #6
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Does anyone really think Trumps West vs East rhetoric is directed solely at terrorists? It's us against them and by them I suspect any country, religion or ideology that doesn't match trumps is probably what he truly believes. Some of his speeches, like his opening one, clearly are written for him and don't really reflect how that man really thinks. How he really thinks is what is scary and you can see it in the question answer sessions or God help us, the endless can't sleep so I'll tweet sessions.

Do these radical nut jobs need recruiting videos supplied by Trump, certainly not, but when he shrinks his "circle of trust" to use a line from a Fockers movie and alienates half the globe that doesn't meet his criteria, I think we are going in the wrong direction. We need allies in these countries to assist us in the war on terrorism. I just think he is poorly choosing his words, the message he wants to send and doesn't see the forest through the trees lining the global stage we are supposed to be leading.

It appears that the only country really happy with Trump is Russia, doesn't that bother people? Seems like a lot of the major leaders (our allies) are not to happy with him or the back peddling he seems to be doing on climate accords, NATO, trade agreements and probably more that I'm not even aware of.

Russia isn't the issue or threat they used to be, but inviting him in to be our buddy is dangerous to say the least. We probably let more Russian spies and intelligence agents into this country than potential terrorists.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:32 AM   #7
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We are constantly reminded that the terrorists kill far more Muslims than anybody else. How does what Trump or Obama say motivate the terrorists to kill all those Muslims? How does it motivate the terrorists to kill all those non-Muslims in France and Germany and Britain and Spain?

It seems that there must be a whole lot of different people saying a lot of various things motivating the recruits to join ISIS.

Or, maybe we just don't want to admit what the real and basic motivation is.
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:46 PM   #8
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The problem with having a narcissist as president is that he has no idea of what a joke he has become and what a laughing stock he has become to the rest of the world.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:35 AM   #9
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The problem with having a narcissist as president is that he has no idea of what a joke he has become and what a laughing stock he has become to the rest of the world.
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wouldn't this describe the last 4 in the eyes of so many?...alternating, depending on your point of view...the world must have really been laughing at Lyndon Johnson, Teddy Roosevelt and Andrew Jackson, FDR and JFK

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-s-presidents/
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:57 AM   #10
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feckless leader (where did i hear that before ) he talks a good game .. but what came of the G20 besides a 2hr meeting with 4 people then again claiming it wasn't the russians or Putin hacking but in the meeting with mexico it was full of staff? and his Daughter taking his seat during the meeting ... odd to say the least...

and as always Terrorism the excuse to keep Americans afraid .. so Government can do as they wish.. in the name of security
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Old 07-11-2017, 06:12 AM   #11
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feckless leader (where did i hear that before ) you are hearing your echo

but what came of the G20
he got an 11 out of 10......

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/10/opinio...ord/index.html
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Old 07-11-2017, 06:39 AM   #12
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What makes you think pulling out of the climate change agreements or the trade deals makes America great again? I think the jury is out on whether 3 years down the road, those decisions make us stronger and better or just put us in a weaker position at the global bargaining table.
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Old 07-11-2017, 07:12 AM   #13
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I'm saying not everyone feels that those decisions are good ones for future economic benefits, or the health of the long term environment, time will tell.
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Old 07-11-2017, 07:31 AM   #14
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I'm saying not everyone feels that those decisions are good ones for future economic benefits, or the health of the long term environment, time will tell.
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I know right?...I'm still waiting for the Obama Russia strategy that Spence claimed was so brilliant no one(except the Oluminatti) could even recognize it's incredible brilliance to pan out....
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Old 07-11-2017, 10:30 AM   #15
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Agreed, which is why you get a better sense of how Trump really thinks in the question and answer sessions or in the daily tweets. Frankly Trump alienating the media isn't my concern, he isn't the first Potus to do so, I'm more concerns about the impact to our relationship with our allies.
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Old 07-11-2017, 12:31 PM   #16
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there is so much noise and panic every time he blinks an eye...it's hard to tell what is really going on which is as you point out likely by design
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Old 07-11-2017, 02:03 PM   #17
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there is so much noise and panic every time he blinks an eye...
It is incredible, how much energy the media is devoting to making him out to be a James Bond villain. If the subsequent congressional special elections are any measure, it's not having the desired effect.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:48 PM   #18
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It is incredible, how much energy the media is devoting to making him out to be a James Bond villain. If the subsequent congressional special elections are any measure, it's not having the desired effect.

Thats funny he and he alone is the reason for the coverage .. Trump it's not having the desired effect.

here we go with the media is out to get Trump .. More fake new I guess Trump Jr emails show Russia communication


More like Trumps make America great again plan it's not having the desired effect.
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Old 07-11-2017, 04:03 PM   #19
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here we go with the media is out to get Trump .. More fake new I guess Trump Jr emails show Russia communication
There doesn't appear to be anything illegal once again . Maybe you could've recommended he delete emails instead of releasing them ...
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:26 AM   #20
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Thats funny he and he alone is the reason for the coverage .. Trump it's not having the desired effect.

here we go with the media is out to get Trump .. More fake new I guess Trump Jr emails show Russia communication


More like Trumps make America great again plan it's not having the desired effect.
Trump is not having the desired effect? There have been 4 special elections since he took over. Two of them, the democrats and the media said were going to be a referendum on trump. Do you know what the results were?

I have said many times he's not a good guy, and he brings much of the criticism on himself. But not all of it. The media is out of the news business and in the "let's get trump" business.

If you think I am a trump apologist, think again, I dislike him. but if he ran against Hilary tomorrow, I'd vote for him in a second
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Old 07-11-2017, 02:00 PM   #21
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I'm more concerns about the impact to our relationship with our allies.
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That is absolutely worth discussing and maybe worth being concerned about.

However, Obama was supposed to be the one that would make the whole world love us (by telling everyone that we aren't anything special), and I don't know that it worked. So if Obama's message of "America isn't any better than anyplace else" didn't make the world love us, hopefully Trump's message of "we rule, you suck" won't create many more enemies.

I don't think too many countries pledge loyalty to the US because of who happens to be in the Oval Office. I have to think that most countries choose to be our allies, because they know it's in their interest to do so, and hopefully that doesn't depend upon how big of a jerk is in the Oval Office. Right now, it's a really big jerk.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:15 PM   #22
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How many times have people associated with the Trump admin lied about their contacts with the Russians so far? Witch Hunt lol
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Old 07-13-2017, 04:01 AM   #23
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http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/12/...ampaign=buffer


DOJ Settled Massive Russian Fraud Case Involving Lawyer Who Met With Trump Jr.

Also the attorney representing the Russian companies in the DOJ case, Veselnitskaya, is the same one who organized a meeting with Donald Trump, Jr. and top Trump campaign officials in June 2016 to offer material that could “incriminate” Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

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Old 07-13-2017, 08:18 AM   #24
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So lets get this straight... Obama was a socialistic and a communist but never hung out with them

But Trump and his circle hang out with socialistic communists and Conservatives insist there is nothing to See... that Just Amazing

Huh?

Dude, you are making me defend Trump here - not something I aspire to do. FDact is I am waiting to see if there is a sleight of hand, a last millisecond shift from the meatball driving right down the sweet spot of the plate.

Obama was a socialistic and a communist but never hung out with them

Obama is well know for associating with communists / socialists / radicals


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Old 07-13-2017, 05:43 PM   #25
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Huh?

Dude, you are making me defend Trump here - not something I aspire to do. FDact is I am waiting to see if there is a sleight of hand, a last millisecond shift from the meatball driving right down the sweet spot of the plate.

Obama was a socialistic and a communist but never hung out with them

Obama is well know for associating with communists / socialists / radicals

Simple concept did canaditate Obama meet with praise the Russians or his campaign people?... No

Did canaditate Trump meet with or praise the Russians or his campaign people yes

Hence hung out with
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:48 PM   #26
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Simple concept did canaditate Obama meet with praise the Russians or his campaign people?... No

Did canaditate Trump meet with or praise the Russians or his campaign people yes

Hence hung out with
Obama started out with praise for Putin (ibtimes 1/9/17):

President Barack Obama first met Russian President Vladimir Putin in July/2009 at Putin’s Dacha, or country home, outside of Moscow, and in spite of the tensions between the two leaders, the men spoke optimistically of a new relationship between their countries.
Obama told Putin, who was then serving as prime minister under his handpicked presidential successor Dmitry Medvedev, that he was aware of “the extraordinary work that you’ve done on behalf of the Russian people,” and that “We think there’s an excellent opportunity to put U.S.-Russian relations on a much stronger footing.” Putin responded to Obama that, “With you we link all our hopes for the furtherance of relations between our two countries.”

There was even a "reset" in relations with Russia during the Obama Presidency handled by his SecState Hillary.

Things changed in the relationship as relations are wont to do. The same will probably happen between Trump and Russia. There are signs they already have. Among other things, Trump's speech in Poland most certainly was not welcomed by Putin.

Get all the facts together, don't just cherry pick or, as you put it, "deflect."
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:05 PM   #27
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Simple concept did canaditate Obama meet with praise the Russians or his campaign people?... No


Hence hung out with
"HANGIN' OUT"

President Obama got caught in private conversation with a hot mic today in Seoul, South Korea, telling outgoing Russian president Dmitry Medvedev that Vladimir Putin should give him more "space" and that "[a]fter my election I have more flexibility."

Jake Tapper has the exchange:

President Obama: "On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space."

President Medvedev: "Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…"

President Obama: "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

President Medvedev: "I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir, and I stand with you."
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:21 AM   #28
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Huh?

Dude, you are making me defend Trump here - not something I aspire to do.
that's the "Trump Effect".....it hurts, it's not in your nature, you really don't want to... but the left and media have gone so full speed whacko that they make you shake your head(have you seen Eben's posts lately?) and he comes out of each debacle looking much better than he otherwise should

if Wayne is looking for some talking points with which to bash Trump he should frequent the National Review website(Conservative bible)...no shortage of articles hammering the President and his team and there actions on a daily basis

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...e-hard-believe

not only was the left and media responsible for the election of Trump...they are responsible for his longevity as well

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Old 07-14-2017, 07:27 AM   #29
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Simple concept did canaditate Obama meet with praise the Russians or his campaign people?... No

Did canaditate Trump meet with or praise the Russians or his campaign people yes

Hence hung out with
And he didn't do it on a Thursday after eating a Reuben. Simple: he met, praised, and respected Communists and Socialists for most of his life - before and during his presidency.



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I don't understand the treasonable thing it's not treason don't know what to call it until they conclude the investigation and unlike some on both sides I will accept the outcome

Muller hiring 15 more lawyes? ? For a nothing burger .....
Ohh, there is something wrong, possibly even criminal. But we have half the country on the fainting counch or grabbing torchesd and pitchforks. You have supposedly smart people calling "Treason". Know the definition of Treason? None of this reaches that. Period. Prove Me Wrong.

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that's the "Trump Effect".....it hurts, it's not in your nature, you really don't want to... but the left and media have gone so full speed whacko that they make you shake your head(have you seen Eben's posts lately?) and he comes out of each debacle looking much better than he otherwise should
No - he does not look better - he has not looked better other than tiny brief periods. Hardly has he looked good.

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Old 07-13-2017, 09:03 AM   #30
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http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/12/...ampaign=buffer


DOJ Settled Massive Russian Fraud Case Involving Lawyer Who Met With Trump Jr.

Also the attorney representing the Russian companies in the DOJ case, Veselnitskaya, is the same one who organized a meeting with Donald Trump, Jr. and top Trump campaign officials in June 2016 to offer material that could “incriminate” Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

conservatives
If you want to present facts, first get ALL of the facts.

http://theresurgent.com/breaking-tha...trump-dossier/

Read the whole article. It provides in depth information on ties Dermocrats had with the Russians. But here is a smaller portion re the meeting Trump Jr. had with Veselnitskaya:

"Prevezon, which is a Russian group, hires Fusion GPS and Rinat Akhmetshin to generate negative press coverage on a British citizen. Prevezon also hires as legal counsel both Baker Hostetler and Natalia Veselnitskaya.

"Rinat Akhmetshin also puts Natalia Veselnitskaya on the payroll.
Rinat Akhmetshin, who works in collaboration with Fusion GPS at the time it is preparing the Trump dossier, is an admitted “Soviet counterintelligence officer” who specializes in “subversive political influence operations often involving disinformation and propaganda.”
While all of this is going on, Fusion GPS is working on the opposition research dossier on Donald Trump using a foreign agent. Are we really supposed to believe that it is completely coincidental that Natalia Veselnitskaya just so happens to be the Russian lawyer who got access to Donald Trump, Jr.? Are we to believe that there is no direct relationship between Veselnitskaya and Fusion GPS?

"It is remarkable how she gets a PR agent to urge Trump, Jr. to meet with her by promising Russian information about Hillary Clinton’s emails as the Clinton email server story is blowing up. And then it is remarkable how she gives a perfect performance to NBC News two days ago claiming she only talked with Trump about the Magnitsky Act, but assured the press that the Trump team was hoping for dirt on Hillary.

"It is also really remarkable that this all happens as Fusion GPS is prepping its opposition dossier and a New York Times reporter who has been following the story admits it was a year ago, at that time, that someone tipped him off about the meeting.

"Add to all of that two more nuggets. Natalia Veselnitskaya had been denied a visa into the United States. She had been given temporary parole, allowing her to enter the country with an expired visa, but it has been revoked by 2016. Still, Veselnitskaya was able to enter the US anyway to meet with Trump, Jr. in the middle of 2016. It is my understanding this could have only happened in one of two ways. First, she could have argued she was the sole lawyer of representation for her client, but Baker Hostetler also represented Prevezon. She could also have been allowed into the country if she had a collaborative relationship with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. You know, the organization that was considering paying Christopher Steele for his Trump dossier work prepared for Fusion GPS.
Also, Ms Veselnitskaya, on her Facebook page, purportedly had several pro-Hillary Clinton posts and anti-Trump posts.
There are three questions reporters should be asking right now.
What is the relationship between Glenn Simpson, Fusion GPS and Natalia Veselnitskaya?"
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