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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

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Old 03-10-2011, 03:12 PM   #61
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You too smart for satire? Please contradict on of my points in more than 4 words and I can respond. Actually say something, then
satire is what you call it?...you have yet to make an intelligent point, it's not me, or being too smart or not........it's you
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:19 PM   #62
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this is from forbes in reference to the 2009 tax year

"HOUSTON -- As you work on your taxes this month, here's something to raise your hackles: Some of the world's biggest, most profitable corporations enjoy a far lower tax rate than you do--that is, if they pay taxes at all.

The most egregious example is General Electric ( GE - news - people ). Last year the conglomerate generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion.
Article Controls

Avoiding taxes is nothing new for General Electric. In 2008 its effective tax rate was 5.3%; in 2007 it was 15%. The marginal U.S. corporate rate is 35%. "

When people talk about corporations paying 35% or 39% tax rate, it isn't usually the truth.

No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:20 PM   #63
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satire is what you call it?...you have yet to make an intelligent point, it's not me, or being too smart or not........it's you
colbert is satire. That is what anyone would call it. Try to keep up

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Old 03-10-2011, 03:24 PM   #64
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satire is what you call it?...you have yet to make an intelligent point, it's not me, or being too smart or not........it's you
I am waiting for you to say something of content. RIJimmy I could at least sit around and have a good discussion with since he actually makes points. You don't say anything? Oh yeah, except that Colbert isn't satire and I don't make intelligent points. At least I am making points. Tell what is wrong with my points on the tax rate for business? You don't like that I didn't say 224 years since we ratified the constitution. Ok, you are right. What came before that was not actually the United States. What about corporate taxes? What else you have to say.

No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:19 PM   #65
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You don't say anything? Oh yeah, except that Colbert isn't satire .
I said this when?...you constantly create your own narrative just making things up as you go along what's the point
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:18 PM   #66
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Wow, this was fun playing catchup - now gotta go back to work.

BTW - who screwed up the quotes?

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Old 03-10-2011, 05:24 PM   #67
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I am waiting for you to say something of content. RIJimmy I could at least sit around and have a good discussion with since he actually makes points. You don't say anything? Oh yeah, except that Colbert isn't satire and I don't make intelligent points. At least I am making points. Tell what is wrong with my points on the tax rate for business? You don't like that I didn't say 224 years since we ratified the constitution. Ok, you are right. What came before that was not actually the United States. What about corporate taxes? What else you have to say.
Corporate taxes have a lot of arguments that go both ways. One could argue the following points for the government giving corporations a tax break:
Increased corporate taxes could reduce corporate revenue to a point that stock performance would suffer, that would reduce capital gains taxes collected by the government.
Earnings would be reduced and corporations would then increase prices in which place the consumer would pay higher prices.
Corporations would cut costs in the form of jobs to offset the additional taxes they have to pay.

The list could go on and on. I'm not saying a company like GE shouldn’t be paying their fair share of taxes. I'm just saying there is a lot involved here. Much of it is way beyond my knowledge.

I guess fundamentally I think differently. To me the answer isn’t who can we tax or where can we find more tax money. My thoughts are, let’s cut all the waste and frivolous spending going on right now. Taxes are like a drug to our Government and when they need money, they look at increased taxes before anything else. They need to look in the mirror and cut the fat. Like I said, taxes to are like a drug and our government (or most parts of it) are addicted

"I know a taxidermy man back home. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him!"
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:03 PM   #68
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Pesc. I am pretty much right in line with you on what you said. Only thing I want to add is that non-defense discretionary spending is under 500 billion. When party leaders say publicly they are going to cut 1trillion from the budget, but not cut military spending, they can't explain how to do that. Again, it is something that sounds good, but it isn't possible. they aren't going to cut 500 billion, as that is all non-defense discretionary spending and they certainly aren't going to be able to cut 1trillion from the budget. The deficit is going to grow and tax loopholes for big business are one thing that needs to be fixed. You make good points about how the taxes can affect other revenues, but from a true competitive free market standpoint, it is an uneven playing field that benefits certain companies and industries more than others. I believe the groups with true independent or libertarian leaning should want this problem fixed as much as they worry about some of the other stuff.

No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:44 PM   #69
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Pesc. I am pretty much right in line with you on what you said. Only thing I want to add is that non-defense discretionary spending is under 500 billion. When party leaders say publicly they are going to cut 1trillion from the budget, but not cut military spending, they can't explain how to do that. Again, it is something that sounds good, but it isn't possible. they aren't going to cut 500 billion, as that is all non-defense discretionary spending and they certainly aren't going to be able to cut 1trillion from the budget. The deficit is going to grow and tax loopholes for big business are one thing that needs to be fixed. You make good points about how the taxes can affect other revenues, but from a true competitive free market standpoint, it is an uneven playing field that benefits certain companies and industries more than others. I believe the groups with true independent or libertarian leaning should want this problem fixed as much as they worry about some of the other stuff.
Defense spending is expected to be cut between 5-10% per year for the next 5 years. The actual cuts will be deeper as many programs that were maturing to IOC have been cut or moved to the right. Major programs.

Not to mention these programs were "jobs programs" that many congressfolk are trying to keep.

As for the free market, how is the playing field level? China plays with their currency, the EU subsidizes Airbus and other programs. I could go on.

WE, the USA, have a spending problem and we have a buying problem. We spend more than we take in, and as consumers we buy too much from overseas.

Big business fighting for the bottom line ships jobs overseas. Big workers keep their pay and benefits at very high levels. Big population is addicted to government handouts. This is not sustainable. Something has to give.

One of my clients, good people, union shop. Awful lot of foreign cars in their parking lot. I'm driving my creaky old Ford.

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Old 03-10-2011, 08:48 PM   #70
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we've had over 400 people cut from long term defense programs over the last 4 months, because of the budget not being funded.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:02 PM   #71
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I'm driving my creaky old Ford.
Unfortunately, Ford is now the Mexican, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Argentinian, English, Brazilian American Truck company. Want an American car these days, you have to buy a Honda. People buy stuff from china because it is cheap since they can pay their workers $100 a month. I know so many Walmart fans and Walmart has been the biggest proponent of the cheap and disposable chinese goods mentality. Same people complain about jobs going over seas. It is hard though, as it is almost impossible to avoid it. Most of the good US products were union made ... with the unions, the companies had trouble competing, without the unions the workers couldn't afford to purchase stuff. The reality probably has more to due to transportation. Once trade started occuring there was no going back. People weren't going to pay more for US made and workers weren't going to work for wages similar to what people in asia would. It definitely isn't simple.

No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:46 AM   #72
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. Most of the good US products were union made. Once trade started occuring there was no going back. People weren't going to pay more for US made and workers weren't going to work for wages similar to what people in asia would. It definitely isn't simple.
Americans have opted for foreign made products, in many cases, that are not only less expensive but in many cases just as good and the "good US union made products"

yes, "once trade started"(?? do you have a date for this also...dont say 400 years) Americans could no longer get those quality union made products, like the American cars of the 70's and 80's ...when has it ever been suggested that American workers need to or would need to work for the same wages that Asian workers do in order to be competitive?

"without the unions the workers couldn't afford to purchase stuff" really?, how is it then, that non-union workers "purchase stuff"?

"The reality probably has more to due to transportation" OK?

Unions and their political colleagues have created their own monsters, they have built armies of lazy dependents(much like the democrat party), have chased their own jobs out of this country through demands and support of suffocating regulation and members have been told all the while by their thugocracy that they are the best...and the brightest...when neither has been true...and for those reasons, the benefits that have been leveraged through thuggish means in many cases or through political graft are somehow both deserved and earned...when neither is true...Union dependents demand "a share" when times are good but conceed little or nothing when times demand otherwise....companies leave the US(and relocate from state to state) to escape burdensome regulation and taxation, union demands, to find more productive workers who may work for far less but may be living in huts and appreciate the opportunity to earn a wage rather than scouring for food for their next meal and in the end may take more pride in their work than the average union employee...



Conrad Black wrote a great article the other day describing it this way...

"In an era when the work force and the management, lenders and shareholders all have effectively the same interest — productivity and quality of work — organized labor has been sliced back to the least efficient, least necessary, least competent sector of the entire labor market: the public-service unions. This is the withered detritus of such great men as Samuel Gompers, George Meany, and Lane Kirkland.............the teachers’ unions that have propagated ignorance where education long prevailed; and the unindustrious anthills of paper-pushers and issuers of insulting and erroneous ukases on behalf of the agencies of the immense infestation of government riveted on America’s back. In identifying itself wholly with the ethos, work habits, and intellectual effervescence of this group, the Obama Democratic party has engaged in a romantic trek to its sources."

I'll give the union workers one thing...they sure have plenty of time to show up and protest and trash state capitols and threaten those that disagree with them...in that regard, they are quite efficient and productive..and probably undercompensated. you may want to differentiate between public sector and private sector unions but I'm not sure that they do ...you might even say that the public sector unions are doing great damage to the "Union Lable" currently

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Old 03-11-2011, 07:01 AM   #73
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back to Jimmy's original point, NPR and the rest of the MSM are little more than a bull horn for the left in this country..ideaology trumps intellectual honesty for the activists that populate it, I flipped through the big three yesterday morning and it was the same at every stop..."journalist" seething at the unbelieveable and illegal actions of the Wisconsin Republicans....not a word about the drooling rabble screaming around the capitol...they are, afterall, the good guys and are justified in whatever they do, the evil Republicans however, they hate people and want you to die...it would be funny if it weren't so serious....the MSM simply repeats the story and spin that the left wants propogandized each day.....it's not liberal bias to liberals because they enthusiastically believe this crap

just compare the treatment and characterization in the media of the Tea Party protesters and the union thug rent-a-mobs...this NPR guy was just perpetuating the talking points

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Old 03-11-2011, 07:23 AM   #74
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Scott,

Many of the protesters are students or "out of staters" sent in by the unions. I am not defending either side in this argument. I can, however, say that if you look at the current economic situation in southern states (North Carolina is a good example) the average worker makes squat. Why? Becuase there is no union group to set an eaxample for what is the baseline. Good or bad, the unions have helped out non-union workers by establishing baseline salaries. Do you really think hourly wages woudl be where they are without at least one union getting a contract that establishes the standard for what is fair? If so, you are kidding yourself. Without that corporate greed would take hold (as is the case with humanity). On the flip side, unions are filled with greed on the other side wanting more than their share in return for nothing.

As far as bias, Fox spins enough to the right to counteract the left spin. I prefer the BBC since Bosnia-free radio jumped off the fence in the 90's.
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:33 AM   #75
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As far as bias, Fox spins enough to the right to counteract the left spin.

Many of the protesters are students or "out of staters" sent in by the unions.(rent-a-mob)
I get basic cable...don't get Fox News(except local) but do get NBC, ABC,CBS,PBS...please, as much as FOX is a demon and target for the left and admittedly leans right, it hardly counteracts the leftward spin of all of the others....never mind the one-sided subtleties and activism that Jimmy mentioned in outlets like NPR
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:43 AM   #76
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Scott,

I can, however, say that if you look at the current economic situation in southern states (North Carolina is a good example) the average worker makes squat.
must be terrible there


N.C. population grew 18.5 percent, Census

By Barb Barrett and Matt Ehlers - Staff writers
WASHINGTON -- North Carolina's population grew 18.5 percent over the past decade, according to 2010 numbers released Tuesday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

The Old North State was home to 9,535,483 people on April 1, 2010. The state has seen tremendous growth during the past 20 years: in 1990, the population was about 6.6 million.

“It is no coincidence that the states gaining population the fastest over the last 10 years have lower tax rates and, consequently, stronger economies,” said McHenry, who is ranking member of the Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census and National Archives
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:05 AM   #77
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dude, it was the search for gold. The tobacco and fur trade came after they got here. You ignore the entire protestant movement, the pilgrims, the puritans, the quakers, the pennsylvania dutch who came here for freedom of religion. Yes people came because of the other resources, but Virginia co. came for gold.That is what I meant by your narrow focus. The pilgrims got sponsored, but they came here because of James
my argument is over. If you think the "Pennsylvania Dutch" came for freedom of religion and this country is 400 yrs old, I give up.
I bet the Pennsylvania Dutch were stoked when they named the state after them........

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Old 03-11-2011, 09:47 AM   #78
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my argument is over. If you think the "Pennsylvania Dutch" came for freedom of religion and this country is 400 yrs old, I give up.
I bet the Pennsylvania Dutch were stoked when they named the state after them........
I am pennsylvania dutch. It includes Moravians, mennonites, amish, brethern, lutherans (among lots of others). Most have connections to the reformed church. I know that my relatives came in 1702. It was certainly partially because of the farmland, but the divide between the anabaptists also gave them incentive to come here and set up communities where they were free to worship as they wished. My point wasn't that they only came here for religion or only came here for wealth. You made the statement that they all came here because of money. Harvard university turned 375 years old this year. Based on a literal measurement it was not part of this country, but I included the early years as part of how long this place we live has been great. Use it to discredit me if you want, but it would be better if you could discredit my facts about corporate tax rates and the like. So you are right, not all people came here for freedom. The constitution wasn't ratified 400 years ago. But I am also right there was alot of important history that shaped this country before ratifying the constitution and as a matter of fact, Virginia co. didn't come here for tobacco and furs as you stated. Corporations typically don't pay 35% (or the old rate, 39%, which you stated) so I guess I shouldn't bother discussing this with you either since your facts aren't so great.

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No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:00 AM   #79
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But I am also right there was alot of important history that shaped this country before ratifying the constitution and as a matter of fact, Virginia co. didn't come here for tobacco and furs as you stated. .
You stated this country is 400 yrs old and based that on the Jamestownt settlement. You stated Jamestown was settled based on "principles". Jamestown was settled asan investment in the new world. I never once read that gold was a part of that. the purpose was to set up an outpost and explore opportunites. It was a race against the Spanish. Very soon after the settlement both fur and soon after tobacco became the profitable ventures.

there was no "pennsylvania" when the dutch came, thats why its funny you said the Pennslyvaia dutch settled here. Another history error of yours.

I never once said that there isnt an amazing history prior to the forming of our country, but the reality is our country wasnt formed until the constitution was ratified. Your just trying to explain your mistake. And it is interesting you say our country is 400 yrs old based on the first WHITE settlers coming here. Interesting to note that people where living here for over 10,000 yrs. People with an amazing history and culture. When the 101st airborned attached during D-day, they did not cut their hair like the puritans, they cut it like Mohawks.

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Old 03-11-2011, 10:13 AM   #80
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my argument is over. If you think the "Pennsylvania Dutch" came for freedom of religion and this country is 400 yrs old, I give up.
I bet the Pennsylvania Dutch were stoked when they named the state after them........
I keep reading this and IT is unbelievable. You are saying you can't continue because none of the Pennsylvania Dutch came for religious freedom? You are factually wrong. I feel like I could show some of the people in this thread an orange and they would argue it is a banana. "...they were stoked after they named the state after them"? wtf? The groups that are considered the Pennsylvania dutch came from mostly Germany, Switzerland and Alsace. As a group they were called the dutch when they arrived and now they are called the PA dutch settled in south central PA. Where the h do you come up with that last line? Apparently I know my ancestral history a bit better than you.

How many times do I have to repeat that the constitution was not ratified 400years ago. I stated that I think this is the best place on Earth and has been for 400 years and all you and that scott guy can do is repeat that the country isn't 400 years old over and over? For awhile I thought you were able to have a conversation w/out the Scott type idiocy. Too bad it got to this point. I enjoy the relatively reasonable discussion to which many people have been able to reasonably contribute.

No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:14 AM   #81
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there was no "pennsylvania" when the dutch came, thats why its funny you said the Pennslyvaia dutch settled here. Another history error of yours.

.
THEY WEREN"T DUTCH! holy h... and I am the one who doesn't know what he is talking about....

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Old 03-11-2011, 10:16 AM   #82
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When the 101st airborned attached during D-day, they did not cut their hair like the puritans, they cut it like Mohawks.
Thanks for the info... my grandfather was airborne in ww2

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Old 03-11-2011, 10:39 AM   #83
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I keep reading this and IT is unbelievable. You are saying you can't continue because none of the Pennsylvania Dutch came for religious freedom? You are factually wrong. I feel like I could show some of the people in this thread an orange and they would argue it is a banana. "...they were stoked after they named the state after them"? wtf? The groups that are considered the Pennsylvania dutch came from mostly Germany, Switzerland and Alsace. As a group they were called the dutch when they arrived and now they are called the PA dutch settled in south central PA. Where the h do you come up with that last line? Apparently I know my ancestral history a bit better than you.

How many times do I have to repeat that the constitution was not ratified 400years ago. I stated that I think this is the best place on Earth and has been for 400 years and all you and that scott guy can do is repeat that the country isn't 400 years old over and over? For awhile I thought you were able to have a conversation w/out the Scott type idiocy. Too bad it got to this point. I enjoy the relatively reasonable discussion to which many people have been able to reasonably contribute.
when did I say no one came for religious freedom? Its the adjective "pennslyvania" I have a problem with. Sure many religious people came here.
you're really missing my point, which was meant to be humorous, however factual. Not one single person that settled here was called "pennsylvalia" dutch. get it? there was no pennslyvnia when they came here. they were just dutch.

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Old 03-11-2011, 10:40 AM   #84
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THEY WEREN"T DUTCH! holy h... and I am the one who doesn't know what he is talking about....
they were dutch (or german or whatever), just not pennsyvania dutch. get it?
When they got on the boat to come here, they did not refer to themselves as "Pennsylvania".

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Old 03-11-2011, 11:01 AM   #85
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what brought people here was $.
Furs, sugar, tobacco, slaves. Principles had nothing to do with it.You need to learn your history.
point 1

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Old 03-11-2011, 11:17 AM   #86
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I am pennsylvania dutch. It includes Moravians, mennonites, amish, brethern, lutherans (among lots of others). .
moronvians?
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:39 AM   #87
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Interesting to note that people where living here for over 10,000 yrs. People with an amazing history and culture.
And I bet from their point of view....the country went to hell in a hand-basket about 400 years ago.

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Old 03-11-2011, 11:43 AM   #88
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the pilgrims, the puritans, the quakers, the pennsylvania dutch who came here for freedom of religion.
You are right, it wasn't pennsylvania until the 1680's. The pennsylvania dutch came in the decades following that. you apparently thought the Dutch traders from Holland and the Pennsylvania Dutch are the same. Also, to be clear, the pilgrims originally weren't called pilgrims, the mohawks weren't called mohawks etc. etc. What is true is that many Americans came here for religious regions and you specifically stated it was for money.

No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:44 AM   #89
zimmy
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Scott, am I right to assume you are a teenager? If so I will give you a pass and I am sorry if you have a dad on this site. No offense to them if I have been taking you for an adult.

No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:00 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy View Post
Scott, am I right to assume you are a teenager?
yes, that's correct, I'm skipping school to enjoy this warped history lesson from an apparent lunatic hoping that it will lead somewhere...sometime, but I'm chuckling with each new post from you...please continue
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