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Old 08-14-2020, 02:14 PM   #1
Jim in CT
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Durham report

sources say that a senior FBI lawyer will be pleading guilty to making false statements. Supposedly, he altered an email to say that Carter Page was not working with the CIA, when the email said he was.

The FBI says it relies on that email when applying to get a FISA surveillance warrant on Page.

IF true ( might not be), this would
be proof that the DOJ lied in order to spy on an American citizen.

nothing to see here.
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:23 PM   #2
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It was a jr line attorney, we've known about this for over a year now I think. IG said the warrant was valid anyway. Guy was probably just sloppy and will get a slap on the wrist.
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:26 PM   #3
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It was a jr line attorney, we've known about this for over a year now I think. IG said the warrant was valid anyway. Guy was probably just sloppy and will get a slap on the wrist.
we knew he was going to plead guilty for a year? my bad, i had no
idea.

probably just altered the email out of sloppiness.

funny thing, all these honest mistakes that liberals make, and the media makes...all of those
mistakes help democrats. i mean, being a data guy, id assume
that honest mistakes would help each side roughly half of the time. but they don’t. just a coincidence, obviously.

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Old 08-14-2020, 02:33 PM   #4
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It was Horowitz that made the criminal referral.

Horowitz also said the FISA warrant was sufficiently predicated without this lie.

Question for you and Barr: how are Flynn’s confessed lies to the FBI (repeated to the VP) not a crime, but Clinesmith changing an email (the full version of which he also sent to DOJ) is?
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:49 PM   #5
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It was Horowitz that made the criminal referral.

Horowitz also said the FISA warrant was sufficiently predicated without this lie.

Question for you and Barr: how are Flynn’s confessed lies to the FBI (repeated to the VP) not a crime, but Clinesmith changing an email (the full version of which he also sent to DOJ) is?
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Clinesmith wasn't under a phony investigation for the purpose of removing him from a position in the Trump administsration and when found to have done nothing wrong was coerced under duress into a process crime, perjury trap, "lie," which he later denies and fought against in court. But that served the original purpose of getting rid of him.

Rather, Clinesmith committed an uninstigated, unforced, uncoerced crime that was not strictly and only a result of the process of convicting him, but was the causal, willful. conscious, and intentional committing of a crime for the specific purpose of illegally affecting an investigation in order to bring down a presidency.

Clinesmith's "lie" was not a statement or plea deal to avoid some penalty, it was an act of unprovoked sabotage. Flynn had committed no crime before his coerced process "lie." Clinesmith "lie" was not a lie of process but the original act of deliberate sabotage. And your framing it as a lie is a semantic way of trying to create some sort of equivalence.

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Old 08-14-2020, 03:15 PM   #6
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Nobody forced Flynn to lie, he made that choice.

You and the rest of the Tweety's henchmen are the predictable ones. Russian active measures for Tweety have been proven. Tweety's campaign actively trying to capitalize on Russian efforts AND obstruction of justice also proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The FBI attorney is pleading guilty today to precise conduct described in IG report, which we already knew was basis of criminal exposure and which in no way supports the Tweetyworld claim of a Deep State conspiracy.

See Page 250 of the IG report. Nothing in this is new, nothing suggests that this is implicating others to save himself. It is just the identical facts and you are pretending as if it's a shocking revelation.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf

Rand Paul?: A Kentucky man has died in a car accident. He was wearing his seatbelt, which raises questions about their effectiveness — and whether the federal government has curtailed freedom too much. Patriots will resist seatbelt tyranny!

One important note, while some voters are frustrated with Biden, very few regretted their vote against Trump.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:24 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
sources say that a senior FBI lawyer will be pleading guilty to making false statements. Supposedly, he altered an email to say that Carter Page was not working with the CIA, when the email said he was.

The FBI says it relies on that email when applying to get a FISA surveillance warrant on Page.

IF true ( might not be), this would
be proof that the DOJ lied in order to spy on an American citizen.

nothing to see here.
Junior attorney. We’ve known about this for 13 months.

Our tax dollars at work.

Thanks Billy Buttboy
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:36 PM   #8
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Nobody forced Flynn to lie, he made that choice.

I didn't say he was forced. I said he was coerced. Coercion doesn't necessarily denote or imply force.
Coercion: The intimidation of a victim to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of psychological pressure, physical force, or threats.


You and the rest of the Tweety's henchmen are the predictable ones. Russian active measures for Tweety have been proven. Tweety's campaign actively trying to capitalize on Russian efforts AND obstruction of justice also proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The FBI attorney is pleading guilty today to precise conduct described in IG report, which we already knew was basis of criminal exposure and which in no way supports the Tweetyworld claim of a Deep State conspiracy.

See Page 250 of the IG report. Nothing in this is new, nothing suggests that this is implicating others to save himself. It is just the identical facts and you are pretending as if it's a shocking revelation.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf
Oh, but that's all old news. No big deal. We already knew that stuff. And some of it is fake like "obstruction of justice also proven beyond a reasonable doubt."
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Old 08-14-2020, 05:22 PM   #9
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Trumps personal attorney Barr is pulling the strings and a guy (Durham) who had a decent reputation will go the way of many in this administration; they come in smelling like a rose and go out covered in s*it and the stink of this corrupt White House.
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:45 PM   #10
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Trumps personal attorney Barr is pulling the strings and a guy (Durham) who had a decent reputation will go the way of many in this administration; they come in smelling like a rose and go out covered in s*it and the stink of this corrupt White House.
If Durham is the guy they say he is I think the report will just formalize a few things we already know with no new revelations. There will be a lot of squak on the right but nothing of substance.
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Old 08-14-2020, 08:06 PM   #11
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didn't say he was forced. I said he was coerced. Coercion doesn't necessarily denote or imply force.
Coercion: The intimidation of a victim to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of psychological pressure, physical force, or threats.
Oh, but that's all old news. No big deal. We already knew that stuff. And some of it is fake like "obstruction of justice also proven beyond a reasonable doubt."
So it’s kinda like what Tweety did to Zelensky, just a quid pro quo
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Old 08-14-2020, 10:26 PM   #12
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So it’s kinda like what Tweety did to Zelensky, just a quid pro quo
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No
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Old 08-15-2020, 08:30 AM   #13
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TREY Gowdy was filling in for Hannity and was suggesting the whole Fbi and deepstate was in on it. Also had Graham chiming on things making claims about the Rule of law....

Jim what will be your postion when the biden administration AG dismiss the case or Biden pardons the lawyer.

Let also talk about Timing
What other supposed Republican bombshell will be Dropped in the next 80 days ..

Ps if he forged documents he should be charged and he plead guilty. Maybe he was forced to like Flynn was forced to plead guilty
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Old 08-15-2020, 11:24 AM   #14
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The Russian Pro Trump Operation was so effective, it went back and made a FBI "Resistance" Lawyer (one of Mueller's Probe's Core Team) and change the source evidence to initiate a FISA warrant (and follow on warrants).

Damn they are good!!

Quote:
Mr. Clinesmith was among the F.B.I. officials whom Mr. Mueller removed from the Russia investigation after Mr. Horowitz found messages they had exchanged expressing political animus against Mr. Trump. Shortly after Mr. Trump’s election victory, Mr. Clinesmith texted another official: “I honestly feel like there is going to be a lot more gun issues, too, the crazies won finally. This is the tea party on steroids. And the GOP is going to be lost.”


In another text, he wrote, “viva le resistance.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/u...stigation.html

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Old 08-15-2020, 11:47 AM   #15
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The Russian Pro Trump Operation was so effective, it went back and made a FBI "Resistance" Lawyer (one of Mueller's Probe's Core Team) and change the source evidence to initiate a FISA warrant (and follow on warrants).

Damn they are good!!
It’s amazing, considering the FBI is primarily made up of deep state democratic pedophiles, the fact that they’ve been able to only make a few mistakes exposing their vast conspiracy to destroy America is remarkable.
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Old 08-15-2020, 03:30 PM   #16
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It’s amazing, considering the FBI is primarily made up of deep state democratic pedophiles, the fact that they’ve been able to only make a few mistakes exposing their vast conspiracy to destroy America is remarkable.
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And you probably think Clinesmith accidentally copied and pasted "not a source" onto the FISA warrant request and then three more times neglected to change his mistake.

Quote:
"Supervisory Special Agent 2," who swore to an affidavit for all three FISA renewals against Page in 2017, told Horowitz's investigators that on the third renewal he wanted "a definitive answer to whether Page had ever been a source for another U.S. government agency before he signed the final renewal application."

While in contact with what was reportedly the CIA's liaison, Clinesmith was reminded that back in August 2016, predating the first Page warrant application in October 2016, the other agency informed the FBI that Page "did, in fact, have a prior relationship with that other agency."

An email from the other government agency's liaison was sent to Clinesmith, who then "altered the liaison's email by inserting the words 'not a source' into it, thus making it appear that the liaison had said that Page was 'not a source' for the other agency" and sent it to "Supervisory Special Agent 2," Horowitz found.

"Relying upon this altered email, [Clinesmith] signed the third renewal application that again failed to disclose Page's past relationship with the other agency," Horowitz wrote.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...another-agency

Last edited by JohnR; 08-15-2020 at 03:51 PM..

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Old 08-15-2020, 08:37 PM   #17
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Meanwhile Tweety had deals in Russia and denied it
Was funded by dirty Russian money that he cleaned up and more.
When this #^&#^&#^&#^& finally hits the sunlight, you’ll be amazed.
The NY AG is deep into Tweety’s finances and it’s looking indictable
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Old 08-15-2020, 10:04 PM   #18
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile deviceMany people are saying that the President is not really legitimate. I have never seen Trumps original birth certificate. I know his mom was born in Scotland. People seem to be wondering where he was really born. I guess the question needs to be asked because he seldom tells the truth.
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Old 08-16-2020, 04:36 AM   #19
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile deviceMany people are saying that the President is not really legitimate. I have never seen Trumps original birth certificate. I know his mom was born in Scotland. People seem to be wondering where he was really born. I guess the question needs to be asked because he seldom tells the truth.
you've been wrong about everything for 4 years so why not add yet another to your resume'

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Old 03-18-2021, 07:26 AM   #20
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Today marks the 675th day of the Durham investigation into the origins and conduct of the investigation that became the Mueller investigation. That means Durham’s investigation has lasted one day longer than the entire Mueller investigation, which Republicans complained lasted far too long.

The single solitary prosecution Durham has obtained in that span of time in which Mueller prosecuted George Papadopoulos, Mike Flynn, Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, Richard Pinedo, Alex Van der Zwan, Michael Cohen (for his lies about Trump’s Trump Tower Moscow deal) was the guilty plea of Kevin Clinesmith, based on conduct discovered by DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz.

In addition to those prosecutions, Mueller referred further Cohen charges to SDNY, Sam Patten for prosecution to DC, and Bijan Kian for prosecution in EDVA. Mueller charged Roger Stone and handed that prosecution off to DC. He further charged Konstantin Kilimnik, 12 IRA trolls, Yevgeniy Prigozhin, and 12 GRU officers. He referred Paul Manafort’s influence peddling partners, Republican and Democratic alike, for further investigation, leading to the failed prosecution of Greg Craig. Mueller referred 12 other matters — most still sealed — for further investigation, along with the Egyptian bribery investigation originally started in DC.

Meanwhile, Durham has never released a public budget, though by regulation he had to submit a budget request to DOJ in December.

Say what you will about Mueller’s investigation. But it was an investigation that showed real results. Durham, meanwhile, has been churning over the work that DOJ IG already did for as long as Mueller’s entire investigation.
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Old 09-16-2021, 11:14 AM   #21
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Today marks the 857th day of the Durham investigation into the origins and conduct of the investigation that became the Mueller investigation.

Prosecutor John Durham has told a cyber lawyer -- who works for the firm that repped Clinton campaign -- that he wants to indict him on suspicion of lying about who he repped when he told F.B.I. in '16 about potential ties b/w Trump and Russia. https://nytimes.com/2021/09/15/us/po...mp-russia.html

The incredibly weak facts underlying this potential charge of making a false statement (compare with, e.g., Flynn’s lies) tells you how desperate Durham is to find something to throw to the Trump crowd before he runs screaming and contemplates how he’s ruined his reputation

Rand Paul?: A Kentucky man has died in a car accident. He was wearing his seatbelt, which raises questions about their effectiveness — and whether the federal government has curtailed freedom too much. Patriots will resist seatbelt tyranny!

One important note, while some voters are frustrated with Biden, very few regretted their vote against Trump.
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Old 09-17-2021, 02:31 PM   #22
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I just had to drop in to see the PeteF spin . . . No surprise!

The lie was that Sussmann claimed he was supplying the information to the FBI as a private citizen, having no affiliation with any political entity nor was he working for any client.

In fact, the information, which the indictment describes as, “non public data” from a “federal government research contract” came from a "contractor" that fits the role Fusion GPS had, and the abuse of NSA databases discovered by NSA Director Rogers and then reported in multiple FISA Court orders.

The indictment discusses the involvement of "Tech Executive- 1" who was working for the Clinton campaign (Glen Simpson) intimately involved in developing and then sharing this information with Sussmann and Sussamann's contacts with Simpson.

Maybe you should read the indictment and then go back and read my posts here about the spying being done in 2016 and how the Russia Hoax©® was really just the cover-up for all the illegal spying and then to get a FISA warrant on Carter Page . . . to try to get the illegal spying on some retroactive plausibly legal footing.

There are too many references to actions and events in the indictment that speak directly to the illegal harvest and use of NSA FISA §702 data, to allow one to think Durham's goal is just the false statement by Sussmann about his affiliations with those persons / entities that developed and shared the info.


Just keep thinking there's no there there.



.



You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you are capable of great violence.
If you are incapable of violence, you are not peaceful, you are just harmless.
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:15 PM   #23
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Just keep thinking there's no there there.



.
There can't be any there there, because Hilary is a democrat.
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:32 PM   #24
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Happy Constitution Day

We will see, it's a pretty sketchy single 1001 charge, the feds' bread and butter charge, often (and fairly) criticized as a tool to generate charges when no substantive charges can be found.

It's based on a face-to-face oral statement with one government witness, Baker who took no contemporaneous notes. The notes referred to are hearsay.

The 27-page indictment is, to my reading, performative and seemingly focused on delivering a narrative of Trump-as-victim rather than a necessary exposition about Sussman's alleged crime. It's a one-count 1001; that usually doesn't require so much verbiage.

A few legal issues of note: the statute requires the gov’t to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Sussman knew the statement was false & made it with an improper purpose, that the statement was actually false & that it was “material.” Can’t convict without all of that. And bad facts make bad law & that has happened with this statute in the past, 1st courts added a materiality requirement & more recently that defendant knew lying to agents was a crime. Given inconsistent treatment of Sussman & Mike Flynn, lots of risk on appeal to the gov’t.

Rand Paul?: A Kentucky man has died in a car accident. He was wearing his seatbelt, which raises questions about their effectiveness — and whether the federal government has curtailed freedom too much. Patriots will resist seatbelt tyranny!

One important note, while some voters are frustrated with Biden, very few regretted their vote against Trump.
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Old 09-18-2021, 01:43 PM   #25
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I read most of the indictment, not a lot there. A single comment not recorded and witnessed by a single person. Good luck with that.
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Old 09-20-2021, 08:53 PM   #26
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I think they have Durham running cover for the news coming out


Longtime GOP operatives charged with funneling Russian national’s money to Trump, RNC
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Old 09-22-2021, 11:02 AM   #27
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"John Durham is the Jim Jordan of Ken Starrs"

Headline of the Year award goes to... @emptywheel
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Old 09-22-2021, 02:36 PM   #28
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https://www.lawfareblog.com/special-...chael-sussmann

A good analysis of the recent indictment.
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Old 09-22-2021, 07:59 PM   #29
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I do like the last paragraph

Indeed, none of what we think of as the fruits of the Russia investigation had anything to do with Clinton-world opposition research efforts. Not the Papadopoulos matter. Not the Michael Flynn investigation. Not the investigation of Paul Manafort and his business relationship with the Russian intelligence officer Konstantin Kilimnik. Not the indictment of Russian intelligence officers for hacking and dumping Democratic emails—all with the public endorsement of Donald J. Trump. Not the investigation of Roger Stone. And not the indictments of other Russian operatives for social media manipulations. The extensive findings of the Mueller report depend not a whiff on Perkins Coie or Fusion GPS.

Not even if Michael Sussmann lied to Jim Baker about his clients.
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Old 09-23-2021, 06:47 AM   #30
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Durhams investigation will be a great success in MAGA circles just by using Hillary Clinton in a sentence..

It’s cat nip for the Trump cult
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