What’s Putin’s Puppet hiding?

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Trumplicans BEFORE 10 DAYS AGO: Trump has never colluded with any foreign power and there has to be something seriously wrong with you to think otherwise

Trumplicans AFTER 10 DAYS AGO: Uh it's like the president's *job* to collude with foreign powers and if you didn't hate America you'd know it
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It is because he likes the Patriots.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Has Trump and some foreign power cooperated in some illegal action?

Keep believing

Three anonymous officials say Trump ordered a hold on a $400 million aid payment to Ukraine days before the Biden call.

Trump told his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, to hold back almost $400 million in military aid for Ukraine at least a week before a phone call in which Trump is said to have pressured the Ukrainian president to investigate Biden’s son

Giuliani to Hannity: 'I wasn't acting on my own, I was following instructions of the state Department.'

Bolton argued to meet with Ukraine’s president and restore funding as a way to curb Russian aggression. Trump for some time was unmoved. He urged Biden probe. Giuliani urged probe. His aides began to worry move was illegal & GOP senators challenged.

Stunning. Now you can see people are ratting out Trump, leaking and moving the story forward. You’ll see how fast a weak bully goes down.

And just wait till the Russian twist shows up.

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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Keep believing

You said "Trumplicans AFTER 10 DAYS AGO: Uh it's like the president's *job* to collude with foreign powers"

You specifically said "collude." For there to be collusion with a foreign power, the foreign power must reciprocate.

I'll ask again, has Trump and some foreign power cooperated, colluded, in some illegal action?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You said "Trumplicans AFTER 10 DAYS AGO: Uh it's like the president's *job* to collude with foreign powers"

You specifically said "collude." For there to be collusion with a foreign power, the foreign power must reciprocate.

I'll ask again, has Trump and some foreign power cooperated, colluded, in some illegal action?

Spin spin spin


Fox News host Shep Smith on Monday dispelled the deflection President Donald Trump uses whenever he gets confronted about his controversial call with the Ukrainian president, during which Trump reportedly pressured the president to investigate 2020 rival Joe Biden.

“There is no known evidence that Biden did anything wrong,” Smith said following a clip of Trump parroting his baseless claim that Biden had engaged in corrupt behavior in Ukraine.

The Fox host pointed out that the Ukrainian prosecutor at the heart of Trump’s conspiracy theory–that Biden had pushed for the prosecutor’s ouster for investigating a company with ties to Biden’s son–was widely considered corrupt, which led to his ouster.

“The real issue here is the phone call,” Smith said. “The claim that the President pressured a foreign leader to investigate a political rival and the failure to pass the whistleblower complaint to Congress.”
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[Pete F.]

It wasn’t clear why Rudy Giuliani took a day in November 2017 to travel to the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv.


Now, more light has been shed on Giuliani and his oddball Ukrainian associates – according to a new profile of Russian-Ukrainian oligarch Pavel Fuchs, Giuliani is working to “create a U.S. office for supporting investment in the city.” The profile was published Nov. 12 in the Ukrainian magazine Novoye Vremya.

Fuchs – known mainly for negotiating with the Trump Organization for a Trump Moscow project – has arguably been one of Giuliani’s murkiest connections in his global consulting business.

For more than a decade, the former New York City mayor has consulted for unsavory clients around the world, from a recent sojourn to Armenia to a 2004 journey to meet a Russian billionaire in the steel town of Magnitogorsk.

But Fuchs – photographed above in New York with Giuliani in July 2017 – could mark a new low in Giuliani’s foreign consulting career.

Fuchs, a Kharkiv native, has reportedly been under investigation in Ukraine for alleged corruption surrounding a deal to buy $160 million in frozen assets of the country’s former President Viktor Yanukovych, who was deposed in February 2014. Yanukovych was the former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort’s prime Ukraine client for more than a decade. Manafort pleaded guilty to federal criminal charges arising from his Ukraine work and is now cooperating with special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe.
Fuchs built his wealth in Moscow throughout the 1990s and 2000s, amassing investments in energy, banking, and real estate.

In an Al Jazeera profile, Fuchs was quoted as telling a Russian TV host, “when I was young, I beat people up.”

“I don’t like it when someone lies to me,” he added.

Most notably, Fuchs was contracted to build Moscow-City, a complex of skyscrapers in the Russian capital along the Moscow river.

Fuchs’s position as a major real estate developer in Russia brought him into contact with the Trump Organization in June 2008, when the group was in negotiations to franchise its name to one of the towers in Fuchs’s Moscow-City complex.
“We were going to name one of the Moscow-City towers ‘Trump Tower’,” Fuchs recalled in a November 2017 interview. “Donald Trump’s son also wanted to enter the Russian luxury real estate market, he flew to us for negotiations many times.”

By 2017 – the year of Fuchs’s first documented meeting with Giuliani – he had relocated to Ukraine.

Fuchs pops up in photographs with Kharkiv’s mayor, Gennady Kernes, and was named an “honorary citizen” by him in 2014.

Kernes, who flaunts his love of New York City-related apparel on his Instagram account, initially sided with the outgoing Ukraine regime during the 2014 protests. After the revolution, he switched allegiances, but was accused and investigated over allegedly organizing the kidnapping and torture of protestors in his city. That case went nowhere, but accusations of reprisals and grand corruption have continued to dog the mayor.

Kernes’s city hired U.S. lobbyist Shai Franklin in 2016 to represent the city’s economic interests in Washington, though that relationship doesn’t appear from FARA filings to have continued.

By May 2017, Giuliani’s company Giuliani Security had inked an agreement with Kharkiv city government to review the city’s security services. A New York firm called Triglobal Strategic Ventures, a company the New York Times reported as “provid[ing] image consulting to Russian oligarchs and clients with deep Kremlin ties,” too credit in a press release for introducing the Ukraine city and Giuliani’s firm.

The New York City meeting with Fuchs occurred in July 2017, and Giuliani visited Kharkiv in November 2017. Giuliani hosted a delegation from Kharkiv in New York City in March.

It’s not clear whether Giuliani has undertaken any activities to promote Kharkiv – or Fuchs – in the U.S. A review of FARA found no record of Giuliani ever registering as a foreign lobbyist.
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[Pete F.]

Last year, Ukrainian lawmakers admitted that Poroshenko's government halted cooperation with Mueller regarding Manafort/corruption because they didn't want to upset Trump while they were buying US anti-tank missiles. This seems strangely forgotten.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Calling for his removal is one thing. Threatening to withdraw promised money if it was not done is another.

BTW, Mr. Shokin has been interviewed about the matter, and he said that he was investigating Biden's son's actual qualifications and reasons for being hired by Burisma.

“Shokin has not brought any cases of corruption to court involving [ousted] Yanukovich [Paul Manafort’s client & Putin’s man in Ukraine] or his partners. Nor has he prosecuted the hundreds of high-level corruption cases ...brought to his office....”
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[Pete F.]

“Clearly,” said the senior adviser to the Ukraine's interior minister, “Trump is now looking for kompromat to discredit his opponent Biden, to take revenge for his friend Paul Manafort, who is serving seven years in prison.”
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You said "Trumplicans AFTER 10 DAYS AGO: Uh it's like the president's *job* to collude with foreign powers"

You specifically said "collude." For there to be collusion with a foreign power, the foreign power must reciprocate.

I'll ask again, has Trump and some foreign power cooperated, colluded, in some illegal action?

Trump’s treasonous phone call with Zelenskyy goes to the heart of why Putin made him POTUS in the first place: to remove U.S. support for Ukraine and to allow the Russian invasion army to occupy Ukrainian territory beyond Crimea and Donbas.
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[Sea Dangles]

Wow,Pete might be hospitalized with an acute case of TDS. DIZZINESS and INSOMNIA to follow. Get well soon as God needs your help fighting these allegations of wrongdoing.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Wow,Pete might be hospitalized with an acute case of TDS. DIZZINESS and INSOMNIA to follow. Get well soon as God needs your help fighting these allegations of wrongdoing.
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“When I took over the United States.” — Donald J. Trump, Dictator-wannabe, September 23, 2019 (referring at the UN to the start of his presidency).

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[Sea Dangles]

Thank goodness we have a steward that puts America First.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Thank goodness we have a steward that puts America First.
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You are so full of sh*t, Trump is out for Trump and family first. Please explain how extorting a foreign government in order to help his efforts in the 2020 election is good for America. I think you need to loosen the MAGA hit band, clearly it’s lessoning blood flow to brain cells you can ill afford to loss at this point.
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[scottw]

yes...please explain


President Obama defers his authority and says, ‘I'm making Joe Biden my point man in Ukraine. He's going to take care of this crisis. He's going to build out the government, we're going to get this situation dealt with.’ And so Biden starts jumping across the pond and visiting Ukraine on a regular basis, meeting with the president.

“Well, a funny thing happened. Not just a few weeks after Biden takes over the portfolium, a natural gas company called Burisma Holdings in Ukraine, hires Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden to join its board. And that in and of itself is a little suspicious, right? There's no evidence that Hunter Biden had any experience in Ukraine law or Ukraine natural gas, but he's suddenly added to the board. So his son cashes in and gets a great job in Ukraine and it goes on for a couple of years.”

Solomon explained that later Ukrainian authorities began investigating transfers being made to Hunter Biden:

“They have a wide ranging and criminal investigation and they determined in late fall 2015 according to the very records I've seen in Ukrainian court, that they want to interview Hunter Biden. "Why are you taking this money as a board member? What is it for and is there any chance the money is really to influence your father who is a vice president in charge of Ukraine policy?"

“It is at that moment that Joe Biden steps into the picture in a different role. He has a conversation with president Poroshenko, now the Western friendly president, and tells him, ‘I want you to fire the general prosecutor in your country. I want him gone.’

Poroshenko questions, ‘Why? What has he done wrong?’

Biden tells him, ‘Don't worry, he's done something wrong. Just get rid of them.’

Well, the president doesn't oblige and continues to leave that prosecutor general, named Viktor Shokin, in charge for several months. Multiple requests come in from both the vice president and the US embassy demanding that they fire this prosecutor. President Poroshenko doesn't have a reason to fire him.”

Here is where the true scandal is revealed, Solomon explained that Biden continued to pressure the Ukrainian leader. In March of 2016, four months after Joe Biden made the first request for the prosecutor to be fired, Vice President Joe Biden makes a call and says, "If you do not fire that prosecutor, I am going to withhold the next $1 billion in US loan guarantees to the Ukraine."

This is a devastating threat because Ukraine is so cash short. At that point, President Poroshenko finally obliges and fires the prosecutor.

Of course, this has largely gone unreported by the media.


seems like Trump is seeking justice and Biden was trying to prevent justice...family first and all

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

yes...please explain


President Obama defers his authority and says, ‘I'm making Joe Biden my point man in Ukraine. He's going to take care of this crisis. He's going to build out the government, we're going to get this situation dealt with.’ And so Biden starts jumping across the pond and visiting Ukraine on a regular basis, meeting with the president.

“Well, a funny thing happened. Not just a few weeks after Biden takes over the portfolium, a natural gas company called Burisma Holdings in Ukraine, hires Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden to join its board. And that in and of itself is a little suspicious, right? There's no evidence that Hunter Biden had any experience in Ukraine law or Ukraine natural gas, but he's suddenly added to the board. So his son cashes in and gets a great job in Ukraine and it goes on for a couple of years.”

Solomon explained that later Ukrainian authorities began investigating transfers being made to Hunter Biden:

“They have a wide ranging and criminal investigation and they determined in late fall 2015 according to the very records I've seen in Ukrainian court, that they want to interview Hunter Biden. "Why are you taking this money as a board member? What is it for and is there any chance the money is really to influence your father who is a vice president in charge of Ukraine policy?"

“It is at that moment that Joe Biden steps into the picture in a different role. He has a conversation with president Poroshenko, now the Western friendly president, and tells him, ‘I want you to fire the general prosecutor in your country. I want him gone.’

Poroshenko questions, ‘Why? What has he done wrong?’

Biden tells him, ‘Don't worry, he's done something wrong. Just get rid of them.’

Well, the president doesn't oblige and continues to leave that prosecutor general, named Viktor Shokin, in charge for several months. Multiple requests come in from both the vice president and the US embassy demanding that they fire this prosecutor. President Poroshenko doesn't have a reason to fire him.”

Here is where the true scandal is revealed, Solomon explained that Biden continued to pressure the Ukrainian leader. In March of 2016, four months after Joe Biden made the first request for the prosecutor to be fired, Vice President Joe Biden makes a call and says, "If you do not fire that prosecutor, I am going to withhold the next $1 billion in US loan guarantees to the Ukraine."

This is a devastating threat because Ukraine is so cash short. At that point, President Poroshenko finally obliges and fires the prosecutor.

Of course, this has largely gone unreported by the media.


seems like Trump is seeking justice and Biden was trying to prevent justice...family first and all

Channeling Michael Weiner aka Savage?

Removing Shokin was hardly Biden's unique idea. “Everyone in the Western community wanted Shokin sacked,” Anders Aslund, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, told the Wall Street Journal. “The whole G-7, the IMF, the EBRD, everybody was united that Shokin must go, and the spokesman for this was Joe Biden.”

The people of Ukraine wanted Shokin gone as well, and demonstrated for his removal around the time of Biden’s threat. Shortly after that demonstration, Shokin was dismissed.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Channeling Michael Weiner aka Savage?

Removing Shokin was hardly Biden's unique idea. “Everyone in the Western community wanted Shokin sacked,” Anders Aslund, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, told the Wall Street Journal. “The whole G-7, the IMF, the EBRD, everybody was united that Shokin must go, and the spokesman for this was Joe Biden.”

The people of Ukraine wanted Shokin gone as well, and demonstrated for his removal around the time of Biden’s threat. Shortly after that demonstration, Shokin was dismissed.

pete, come on. there is video of biden saying he threatened to withhold aid unless they fired the prosecutor. it’s on video. biden was laughing and bragging, and he’s done. he was then only one with a great chance to beat trump, and he’s done.

this whole thing doesn’t seem suspicious to you?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

pete, come on. there is video of biden saying he threatened to withhold aid unless they fired the prosecutor. it’s on video. biden was laughing and bragging, and he’s done. he was then only one with a great chance to beat trump, and he’s done.

this whole thing doesn’t seem suspicious to you?
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Jim, the reason everybody wanted the prosecutor removed was because he WASN'T FIGHTING CORRUPTION.

You're been duped by a narrative that's 180 degrees to what really happened.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, the reason everybody wanted the prosecutor removed was because he WASN'T FIGHTING CORRUPTION.

You're been duped by a narrative that's 180 degrees to what really happened.

so you don’t think its unusual
for the vice president to withhold huge amounts of aid, unless they fire one prosecutor? we give zillions of dollars to corrupt governments every year. what was so special about this prosecutor in Ukraine that the VP was so concerned he be fired?

so tell me what really happened regarding biden’s son. was he enjoying a lucrative position on an energy company board? how was he qualified? and was he appointed to the board shortly after biden was tapped as obama’s
point man on Ukraine? did biden not only draw a big salary in the board, but also see a lot of ukrainian money flow into his investment firm?

you’re right, i’m not following this very closely. so tell me where i’m
wrong, and what the truth is.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Spin spin spin

Yes, you try spinning your way out of answering my question. You couldn't answer my question because your "Trumplicans AFTER 10 DAYS AGO" stuff is pure crap.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

pete, come on. there is video of biden saying he threatened to withhold aid unless they fired the prosecutor. it’s on video. biden was laughing and bragging, and he’s done. he was then only one with a great chance to beat trump, and he’s done.

this whole thing doesn’t seem suspicious to you?
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A timeline from Ukraine's 2014 revolution to President Donald Trump's push for a Ukrainian probe of former Vice President Joe Biden.

February 2014 Ukraine is thrust into violent revolution, with thousands of anti-government protesters marching on the capital, Kyiv. As a result, the country's government is overthrown and its pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, is removed from office. He remains exiled in Moscow.

April 2014 Vice President Joe Biden leads a U.S. delegation to Kyiv tasked with rooting out corruption and advocating for Ukraine to diminish its reliance on Russian oil. The Obama administration had pledged aid money to support a fledgling Ukrainian administration recovering from a revolution that ousted the country's previous leader.

"You have to fight the cancer of corruption that is endemic in your system right now," Biden told the Ukrainian parliament during the first of several post-revolution visits to the country. "And with the right investments and the right choices, Ukraine can reduce its energy dependence and increase its energy security."

May 2014 Within months of his dismissal from the Navy Reserves after testing positive for cocaine, the vice president's son, Hunter Biden, joins the board of Burisma, Ukraine's premier oil and gas company.

Hunter Biden and his associate at a business entity called Rosemont Seneca Partners -- where Hunter Biden was a managing partner -- both obtained board seats around the same time. According to banking records reviewed by ABC News, Seneca Partners began collecting $166,666 payments each month.

May 2014 The Obama White House deflects questions from ABC News Chief White House Correspondent Jonathan Karl about potential conflicts of interest in light of Hunter Biden's new role at Burisma and the vice president's diplomatic role with Kyiv.

During a daily press briefing, press secretary Jay Carney said, "Hunter Biden and other members of the Biden family are obviously private citizens, and where they work does not reflect an endorsement by the administration or by the vice president or president."

March 2016 Viktor Shokin is fired as prosecutor general, Ukraine's most senior law enforcement position.

The circumstances surrounding Shokin's 2016 dismissal have become central to the debate in 2019 over whether the vice president inappropriately called for Shokin to be fired.

In an interview with ABC News in April 2019, Shokin said he believed Biden pressured the government to fire him because he was leading an investigation into Burisma. But the assertion that Biden acted to help his son has been undercut by widespread criticism of Shokin from several high-profile international leaders, including members of the European Union and International Monetary Fund, who said Biden's recommendation was well justified. Once Shokin was removed, the European Union's envoy to Ukraine, Jan Tombinski, lauded the decision as "an opportunity to make a fresh start."

Dec. 1, 2017 In a press release, Burisma announces that all charges against the company and its president, Mykola Zlochevsky, were dropped by the Ukrainian prosecutor general's office.

Jan. 23, 2018 During an appearance at the Council on Foreign Relations, the former vice president touted his record of fighting corruption by boasting about his threat to withhold a billion dollar U.S. loan guarantee to Kiev if Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko failed to "take action against the state prosecutor" -- referring to Shokin.

"'I'm going to be leaving here in six hours,'" Biden recalled telling Poroshenko. "'If the prosecutor's not fired, you're not getting the money.' Well, son of a bitch, he got fired."

April 2019 Hunter Biden's directorship at Burisma expires and he decides not to renew his seat.

"In this political climate," he said in a statement to ABC News, "where my qualifications and work are being attacked by Rudy Giuliani and his minions for transparent political purposes, I have decided not to renew my directorship."

April 25, 2019 Joe Biden launches his 2020 presidential campaign.

Early May 2019 Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal attorney, announces plans to go and then abruptly cancels a visit to Ukraine to convince the Ukrainian government to reopen an investigation into Joe Biden's role in the dismissal of Shokin.

In a spate of television interviews on Fox News, Giuliani predicted that, "there's no way [Biden] gets from here to the election without this being investigated."

May 16, 2019 Ukraine's prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, tells Bloomberg that he had found no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden or his son, Hunter.

"I do not want Ukraine to again be the subject of U.S. presidential elections," Lutsenko said. "Hunter Biden did not violate any Ukrainian laws -- at least as of now, we do not see any wrongdoing. A company can pay however much it wants to its board."

June 2019 Responding to questions about his son's foreign business dealings, Joe Biden's campaign for president tells ABC News exclusively that if Biden wins the White House he will issue an executive order on his first day in office to "address conflicts of interest of any kind."

July 2019 In an interview with The New Yorker, Hunter Biden said he only had one interaction with his father about joining Burisma: "Dad said, 'I hope you know what you are doing,' and I said, 'I do.'"

In a statement to ABC News a month earlier, Hunter Biden said, "at no time have I discussed with my father the company's business, or my board service. Any suggestion to the contrary is just plain wrong."

Sept. 19, 2019 The Wall Street Journal reported that President Donald Trump pressured Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky, "about eight times to work with Rudy Giuliani on a probe" into Joe Biden.

The July phone call with Zelensky is the subject of a whistleblower complaint filed with the Intelligence Community Inspector General in August, which is now tied up in a dispute between the director of national intelligence and House Democrats about whether Congress should have access to the details of the complaint.

Sept. 21 and 22, 2019 Joe Biden spends the weekend defending himself from Trump. In a statement, the Biden campaign called on the president to release the transcript from his July phone call with the Ukrainian president.

Biden also told reporters that he and his son never discussed Hunter Biden's business with Burisma, despite Hunter Biden's comments to The New Yorker in July that he and Joe Biden had discussed the matter once.

Sept. 23, 2019 During a visit to New York for the U.N. General Assembly, Trump doubles down on the Bidens' actions in Ukraine.

"The one who's got the problem is Biden. If you look at what Biden did, Biden did what they would like to have me do, except there's one problem, I didn't do it," Trump said. "What Biden did is a disgrace, what his son did is a disgrace."

Meanwhile here in Trumplandia, the Trump family business which Trump still controls is working worldwide with foreign governments.
Ivanka Trump gets initial approval from China for 16 new trademarks—including for ‘voting machines’
Trump is the only president for at least 40 years who has not liquidated his business assets or put them in a blind trust.

The Department of Justice has adopted a narrow interpretation of a law meant to bar foreign interests from corrupting federal officials, giving Saudi Arabia, China and other countries leeway to curry favor with Donald Trump via deals with his hotels, condos, trademarks and golf courses, legal and national security experts say.
For 150 years justice department lawyers have interpreted the clause in a way that barred any foreign payments or gifts except for ones Congress approved. But filings by the department since June 2017 reveal a new interpretation that "… would permit the president – and all federal officials – to accept unlimited amounts of money from foreign governments, as long as the money comes through commercial transactions with an entity owned by the federal official."

The justice department stance now closely parallels arguments made in a January 2017 position paper by Trump Organization lawyer Sheri Dillon and several of her law partners. On 11 January 2017, just days before he was sworn in, Dillon said Trump isn’t accepting any payments in his “official capacity” as president, as the income is only related to his private business. “Paying for a hotel room is not a gift or a present, and it has nothing to do with an office,” Dillon said.
A chief focus of critics and the emolument lawsuits has been the Trump International Hotel which has become a mini mecca for numerous foreign delegations – including ones from Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Turkey and the Philippines – who have used it for overnight stays and various meetings.

The hotel is leased from the GSA for 60 years and located on Pennsylvania Avenue just a few blocks from the White House. The IG’s report this January said the lease should have been reviewed again with Trump’s election to determine if it was in violation of the emoluments clause.

Critics of Trump’s ongoing ties to the Trump International and his business empire also note that some countries with major political and business problems in Washington have frequented his properties. “It appears that President Trump may be benefiting from foreign use of his properties designed to influence his decisions,” said the former Republican congressman Mickey Edwards.

Trump claims that profits from foreign influences are being donated, but defines profits in such a way as to launder the money.

[Jim in CT]

cool timeline pete. i didnt for a huge cut and paste. i asked if you thought anything looked suspicious.

of all the corrupt and tyrannical officials in the world, the one biden brags about getting fired , is a ukranian prosecutor who no one has ever heard of, and who was possibly about to question biden’s son.

what are YOUR thoughts in that. i’m not asking you to paste a 10,000 word essay by Rachael Maddow.

Biden is done. he had the best chance by far to beat trump, and he’s done.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

cool timeline pete. i didnt for a huge cut and paste. i asked if you thought anything looked suspicious.

of all the corrupt and tyrannical officials in the world, the one biden brags about getting fired , is a ukranian prosecutor who no one has ever heard of, and who was possibly about to question biden’s son.

what are YOUR thoughts in that. i’m not asking you to paste a 10,000 word essay by Rachael Maddow.

Biden is done. he had the best chance by far to beat trump, and he’s done.
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You think that Biden bragged in public that he got rid of a corrupt prosecutor whom they replaced with another, so that his son would not be prosecuted.
I think he claimed too much credit for it, it was the decision of the US and the European community as a group that made that happen. In those days it was not America Alone.

Here's a more detailed timeline, also not from Rachel Maddow.
https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/t...d-ukrainegate/

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

cool timeline pete. i didnt for a huge cut and paste. i asked if you thought anything looked suspicious.

I think the worst you could say is there was a potential conflict of interest. That being said, I've not seen one shred of evidence that there actually was one nor anything to support the conspiracy theories put forth by Rudy and Trump.

I don't know why you think Biden is done, if anything the odds of impeachment just went way up.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

if anything the odds of impeachment just went way up.

man I hope so!

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You think that Biden bragged in public that he got rid of a corrupt prosecutor whom they replaced with another, so that his son would not be prosecuted.
I think he claimed too much credit for it, it was the decision of the US and the European community as a group that made that happen. In those days it was not America Alone.

Here's a more detailed timeline, also not from Rachel Maddow.
https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/t...d-ukrainegate/

for the second time, pete...of all the evil and corrupt government officials in the world, why did Biden pick this guy, who no one ever heard of, to get rid of? it’s a coincidence and nothing more, that the guy might have been investigating Hunter?

there were no bigger threats to world peace and stability, than a prosecutor in the Ukraine?


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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

for the second time, pete...of all the evil and corrupt government officials in the world, why did Biden pick this guy, who no one ever heard of, to get rid of? it’s a coincidence and nothing more, that the guy might have been investigating Hunter?

there were no bigger threats to world peace and stability, than a prosecutor in the Ukraine?

So I guess you missed the part about the Ukrainian revolution kicking out the Russian puppet and installing a pro European government in 2014? Many countries including the US wanted to support Ukraine's new path but endemic corruption made that risky, hence why most of the democratic world wanted Ukraine's top prosecutor out because he was part of the problem.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

So I guess you missed the part about the Ukrainian revolution kicking out the Russian puppet and installing a pro European government in 2014? Many countries including the US wanted to support Ukraine's new path but endemic corruption made that risky, hence why most of the democratic world wanted Ukraine's top prosecutor out because he was part of the problem.

ok. what specifically did the prosecutor do, that made it reasonable for the executive branch of the US government, to force the ukrainians to fire him?

we give aid to countries led
by murderers. we don’t threaten to withhold aid to pakistan, even though they jailed the doctor who helped us get Bin Laden.

this guy was worse? please explain...i can’t wait.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

So I guess you missed the part about the Ukrainian revolution kicking out the Russian puppet and installing a pro European government in 2014? Many countries including the US wanted to support Ukraine's new path but endemic corruption made that risky, hence why most of the democratic world wanted Ukraine's top prosecutor out because he was part of the problem.

Why wasn't the wonderful Ukrainian revolution not interested in ousting its top prosecutor and being just a puppet, not of the Russians, but of "most of the democratic world" until it was warned that if it did not want to be a puppet it would not get a big loan from the US?

[Jim in CT]

Spence, we give aid to Mexico and Syria. corruption there isn’t part of the problem?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

for the second time, pete...of all the evil and corrupt government officials in the world, why did Biden pick this guy, who no one ever heard of, to get rid of? it’s a coincidence and nothing more, that the guy might have been investigating Hunter?

there were no bigger threats to world peace and stability, than a prosecutor in the Ukraine?


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You complain when I cut and paste, but are incapable of clicking on a link and reading for yourself.

https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/t...d-ukrainegate/

Click and you'll find out what our ambassador, UK, IMF and G7 said about the prosecutor you never heard of. A one sentence answer cannot do six years of history justice, though it works great to incite the uninformed.

Ukraine had played a key role in Russia's success long before President Vladimir Putin rose to power. Ukraine's fertile black-earth farmland had long been a key Russian breadbasket, while the Donbas region is a major locus of heavy industry and mineral reserves. Its Black Sea ports, particularly in Crimea, are crucial to the Russian navy.

Watch now as Russia gets Donbas and sanctions removed, Zelensky sells out his country to get aid from the US and Trump gets manufactured dirt on Biden. Putin's puppet at work.