Wonderbread paint finish?

[numbskull]

Build to fish, the rest will take care of itself.

[Slipknot]

The subject is not going away and will continue to come around, I guess it's just the nature of these forums,the opportunity it provides, and it's free flowing way of info and ability to post pictures of ones work. I can write all night about this but I won't bore you all.

Some good points have been made here. I hope everyone can come to a conclusion here and realize what goes on, if not, I'll spell it out the best I can.

I'm not here to pick any fights either.
I seem to be the only one with balls enough to say something because I've have had enough and seen enough of the calling out of certain members who salty suspected of some wrong doing as far as the rules of the forum pertaining to commercial selling/spamming. This isn't SOL, their policies and what they allow over there don't apply here. It's pretty clear that without pretty convincing proof that someone went from hobby builder to commercial and wasn't paying the fed. fishing excise tax, that those accusations are pretty much unjustified unless you work for the IRS or the person admits to some kind of spamming or something. Another words, just because someone has a website where they post their own pictures of plugs and also have some plugs posted on the forum or just happens to have plugs for sale someplace, doesn't mean they didn't go thru all the proper channels like paying the excise tax due. ( I also have a sub-website on my own website where I have plugs posted and those same pictures were on here at one time also, that doesn't make me a spammer or a cheat I hope. I have not added to it in years but just thought that might be relevant. I don't sell plugs.
And even if they are not a sponsor, John can only allow just so many sponsors anyway, maybe they asked. There is other possible explanations to things other than jumping to conclusions about spam. Let John decide. Like John says, if anyone(like a sponsor or other) suspects a member of spamming, to contact him rather than commenting with a How much? sarcastic remark type thing.

Striperknight , hopefully there is some happy medium, I don't know where that is but we certainly don't want to get someone mad. Here lies another problem, the lucky few who are paying sponsors have the right to speak up about any others who don't follow the spamming rules, and like I said, that should be done directly with John, not on the forum where it gets ugly.

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

hey Bruce you want it public here it is! I sent you a pm because I didn't feel this belonged online. Since your a moderator and said post it here then hey why not I got NOTHING to hide.

Why should I or Bigfish or Afterhours pay to be a sponsor of this site when guys like Smitty, Sporty, Fishdoc, Charleston, Baystalker, and many many more continually post pictures on here when they're doing nothing but trolling for sales?

Let's take smitty for instance. Every single post he's had with pictures here recently HAS been posted somewhere else including his own website with pictures of the same plugs in packages and for sale. So it's fair to everyone on here for this to keep happening time and time again? We been through this before and it's a sticky at the top of the forum. Not only is it against the site's policy of giving these guys free advertising in some cases these guys are in shops in plain package wrappers, or selling on other private forums here BLATANTLY and also doing it via private messages.

I've seen enough of this bs to last a lifetime. And when I do I'm going to say something. Why anyone would have a problem posting pictures of something if they're not selling or have nothing to hide is beyond me, nor can I understand why you feel it drives people away. I don't even post pictures here anymore because I've heard enough crap about being spam spam spam etc myself.

NO holier than though attitude. MY attitude is if your gonna sell then PAY to be a sponsor, PAY your frickin taxes-state, federal, and excise! Why should any of these guys get to make more money than any advertiser here!

Bruce you or anyone else can flame all you want I couldn't care less. Not one of these guys affects what I do every day but I'm tired of paying through the frickin nose every day when these guerilla marketers play cheat the system behind the scenes.

IT'S NOT FAIR to ANYONE who supports this site. The difference is I got the balls to say it publicly.

RANT OFF

I didn't bother to answer your rant Scott, because it was just that, a rant and a lot of exaggeration and hearsay. The how much comments didn't belong on here either. I think if you opened your eyes, you'd know how I'd answer, but tunnelvision is hard to see the big picture.
Nope, spam is not fair to any of us here just as the accusations of spam or other stuff without real proof being written on the forum instead of pointed out to John like what was spoken about years ago. It does drive people away and some don't want to be falsely accused so they don't post, don't need the hassle. And just as Nebe says, people don't want their ideas stolen and used so they don't post either. I don't blame them.
The forum is about building plugs to fish with like Numbskull said, I hope we can get back to that.

Karl, I'd post some plugs if I made any, but I have not. Hopefully soon.

I'm not a babysitter, hopefully we can all be adults here. Thanks

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Diggin Jiggin

I like wonder bread when it's done very lightly like on the old pearl bombers.

Here's one I did last year that I haven't fished yet.

Nice Dave, that's the wonderbread I like

[redneck24]

its like friggin romper room, im so glad i am out of this business. its childish crap like this that makes it not worth it. its friggin fishing lures, and the little children in the business do nothing but piss and moan, and point fingers. you can have all this crap, good luck. and as far as the forum being dead, THIS IS THE REASON! its all gotten out of hand, people dont even fish plugs anymore, they collect them, and sell them for some stupid price because they are pretty, they dont give a damn if they work, because they never fish them. people make lures to catch fish, that what this forum should be about, and until people realize that, it will just continue to suck.

[sorethumb]

I don't even build the damn things I think this is all a bunch of grown up BS!This is the second time I came back to the forums and as you can see 7 posts I'm done Adios to all the normal people.It's always about money unless it is just a competition you all do nice work too bad you all just can't get along.Later.

[Raven]

of the "toned down paint scheme" there...

i remember talkin with kevin Vandam... years ago about his
theory of spinner bait speed and how he burns em by fish really fast
at times so they barely see the bait...

and i asked him about why plugs with worn off paint sometimes become favorites...
because of how well they catch...like the plugs that are now bone color
....or the under-finish color... or more subtle paint schemes... ect.

[Grapenuts]

You have paying sponsors here....when any comm. builder post their wares in any form it is spam and any sponsor has the right to sound off.....owner/mod's need to do their homework and keep up with whos doing what outside of their site.

[BigFish]

I think this forum has suffered greatly the past few years, and I also think that maybe we need to lighten up and put the fun back in this forum?! It is, after all, about building plugs! So why not just let folks post their work as long as it is in the spirit of this forum and in the spirit of goodwill and sharing! I learned how to build plugs from this forum and am happier for it! I had never even dreamed of building my own plugs before I stumbled in here! I had long admired the amazing, beautiful and incredible work that was done by so many of the folks who posted here and that was what inspired me to learn to build my own....and I have so many folks here to thank for their help and I have never forgotten them! My selfish pleasure is looking at pictures of all the other builders work.....the creative talents of everyone never ceases to amaze me and also inspire me! I am a builder sure but first and foremost I am a lover of all plugs handmade! If the fun gets squashed by all the BS then that is a shame. I have made many friends here, and would not trade one of them for a buck! With a New Year on the horizon.....lets commit to changing things in here for the better??

[Pete F.]

I told John R once that I never get into arguments on the Internet, well almost never.
Some plug builders are forgetting, or perhaps not realizing, that the fascination with wooden plugs today was not driven by a bunch of guys standing around talking. The Internet drove it, I believe mostly thru the plugbuilding forums. If you drive all the small time custom builders out of the forums a lot of interest will be lost.
I don't believe that there are many NEW inventions in the plugbuilding world. Just look at the line below my sig, that book was written right around the time I was born.
This was by far the best plugbuilding forum on the web. I hope it will be so again.
Now I need to think about cleaning my shop so I can build some plugs this winter.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Grapenuts

.....owner/mod's need to do their homework and keep up with whos doing what outside of their site.

You expect people who work for free to put in extra time to research what members here do when they're not on this site? I think that's a lot to ask of people who are just trying to help make this an enjoyable site for all of us. Would you want to spend your time researching what everyone who posts pics here is doing when they're not on this site?

While I agree that commercial plugbuilders shouldn't be allowed to "spam" the forums, I don't think the moderators or John R should be looking into what people are doing outside of this site.

[Slingah]

the only way I see to resolve this is to not allow posts from commercial plug builders...sponsors or not...hobbyists only forum....
it would be nice to see this forum get back to what is once was..

[BigFish]

Well how does that make things better Slingah??!! The people who do pay to be on here are not allowed to post?? Now that would not be right!

[NIB]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Well how does that make things better Slingah??!! The people who do pay to be on here are not allowed to post?? Now that would not be right!

Many Hobbyist have taken the step to become commercial builders due to what they have learned on this site.To go back guys like Bernzy and Ryan,I remember Salty's dive into building and even Larry himself..I think to have them sharing their creations would be a great inspiration to the young at heart aspiring builder..
Just think of what could be learned if Metal Lip posted more.He knows lots of what went on as far as th creations of many plugs.I think not allowing commercial builders to post their creations and talk about them is doing the service a great diservice..Those who have chosen to sponsor the site should do so out of their own generosity.They get privileges to sell their wares where others don't.I think thats great.I think it is wrong when they have a problem with those who do not sponsor the site put up a few pics..It really seems so minor to me.The way I see it all of the sponsors can't keep up with the demand as it is already..

It's plug Building plain and simple..Not for nutin I like to see the nicer plugs.I am not enthralled or feel compelled to lie to someone on their first attempts when the look like my ass.Get good then post have some pride.The level needs to be set higher.Guys Like Tagger and Thank God For Numby and his X-rays....They are a great inspiration to make plugs that actually work.Reworking old but true designs.And that Boat guy with the beautiful off center jointeds.Guys who add like Lou.There are so many others..This place is priceless but it could be so much better.
IMO..

BTW I prefer a fogged over wonder bread.I think the soft blend of colors mimics that iridescent hue all baitfish have..

[Slingah]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Well how does that make things better Slingah??!! The people who do pay to be on here are not allowed to post?? Now that would not be right!

nothing against you guys Larry and I don't think it would be fair either..I'm just saying that is what would stop that reason for fighting...it would take it out of the equation. it seems to me that money is the issue.... someting has to give.

[ProfessorM]

Like my mother always said worry about yourself. So many people are worried about what the other guy is doing. I say mind your own business and if you are bothered by something see a moderator not stick it in here and bore the crap out of the guys who are asking questions and are interested in the actual building of plugs. Maybe we need a commercial builders community forum and a hobby forum. Separate. I really think the ball busting, innuendo, wise ass comments, needs to stop. I have really lost all respect for a few of the guys here by their childish bullsh&%*$t. Grow up and have some fun. I also feel if you have nothing positive to say than keep it to yourself or send a PM. Constructive criticism is different. The world is too full of negative comments. It is just plugs and the talking about plugs. IMO if you don't like it change the channel and be gone. Don't ruin it for the ones who enjoy the banter of plug building.

[angler229]

I should probably just stay out of this but this issue really pushes my buttons. What I think is crazy about this, is #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& is saying that because he is a sponsor he has the right to control the content on this forum. It is absolutely ridiculous and it does members here a great disservice, by driving people away who could potentially add a great deal. The other sponsors of this website at least deal with issues in a private manner and and don't deter people from posting. Also, are you so insecure about your own business that you feel the need to attack anyone that sells a plug. It seems you would be much better served spending that time working and improving your own product than bashing others.

[BigFish]

Bingo both NIB and Professor! How can we give back if we can't participate?? Also.....Professor nailed it....people in all walks of life need to worry less about what others do and more about themselves!

[NIB]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Also.....Professor nailed it....people in all walks of life need to worry less about what others do and more about themselves!

I could not agree more Larry..

[NIB]

[quote=BigFish;649691]Bingo both NIB and Professor! How can we give back if we can't participate?? [quote]


I also think it is up to the members not to solicit plugs In a illicit manner..Especially from guys who don't support the site.Show some respect and have some normal decency..
Or in other words don't be a F'n scumbag..

[smitty919]

well i was about to make a long post over this but changed my mind as i dont want this to go any farther than it needs to so with that said he is rite i have no place to post any pics and wont end of story......

the site is all yours salty

[NIB]

Originally Posted by angler

I should probably just stay out of this but this issue really pushes my buttons. What I think is crazy about this, is #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& is saying that because he is a sponsor he has the right to control the content on this forum. It is absolutely ridiculous and it does members here a great disservice, by driving people away who could potentially add a great deal. The other sponsors of this website at least deal with issues in a private manner and and don't deter people from posting. Also, are you so insecure about your own business that you feel the need to attack anyone that sells a plug. It seems you would be much better served spending that time working and improving your own product than bashing others.

I think this comes down to a familiar problem..Salty seems to take great umbrage with other aspiring plugbuilders.Way to much energy expended on this issue if you ask me.Unfortunately this is a building consensus among fellow surfcasters..From Mass Thur NJ..
I like Salty,I think He's a good guy.Really..He has put a ton of work and money into his company in short time.He builds a good plug for decent money...He's doing all the right things on that front.His plug specials are awesome.Hard to find anything of his quality for the money he sells em off at..
But..there's always a but..
He does seem to go out of his way on some issues and it is becoming a real turnoff...If you ask me, I think it is greatly affecting his sales.Not just my opinion...I think if he tweaked a few designs and worked on his people skills a little, he could very easily be the biggest producer/seller of wooden lures out there.I think the basic structure of his company is that good.It's a shame for him to have some of his ideological differences holding him back..
People reward kindness and remember cruelty.

[Karl F]

in case nobody else noticed...

[BigFish]

Was that a collective sigh I just heard???

[tattoobob]

Wow talk about beating a dead horse

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

Wow talk about beating a dead horse

I disagree the horse needs to be beat every once in a while so something constructive comes out of it and everyone is on the same page and we can go back to having fun and not a soap opera.

[Striperknight]

Originally Posted by NIB

I think this comes down to a familiar problem..Salty seems to take great umbrage with other aspiring plugbuilders.

I disagree with this statement. He does have a problem with "Guerilla
spammers" and people not paying the manufacturing tax (which hurts us all)

I have seen him give demos to aspiring plug makers at a couple of plugfests. Last year at plugfest he gave anyone his time to show how to make tail loops. He has given away tons of wood to all these newbies to the hobby. Lastly he has contributed to this forum and has been trying to get interest going with trivia questions I have no clue on how to answer.

Do I agree with his methods?... no... but he gets you fired up and thinking instead of tip toeing around the issue.

[NIB]

Like I said there would be no Guerrilla's in the mist if there where no one to buy em.The blame has to be laid on those who support that type of action as much as it does the spammer.One way would be to disable email references from our profiles.You want a email you have to make a PM, they can be monitored.I know it's a PITA for those who have to deal with it but it is one way around it.
You can also say what you want.I truly believe with his actions he is hurting himself in the long run.
My dad used to say one Oh sh!te wipes out ten attaboys..
It's not my intention to make these statements in detriment to Scott.I am doing this so perhaps he can see the forest from the trees..Mow them down and make lures out of em.I have witnessed him go thru the ranks.He one of the older guys doing this now.I remember when he would spray fix a tif on the painted plugs in effort to make a better bond for his epoxy top coat..

[Karl F]

as was mentioned, you can do the wonderbread 2 different ways..




or this way, not that there is anything wrong with either way...

[Charleston]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

hey Bruce you want it public here it is! I sent you a pm because I didn't feel this belonged online. Since your a moderator and said post it here then hey why not I got NOTHING to hide.

Why should I or Bigfish or Afterhours pay to be a sponsor of this site when guys like Smitty, Sporty, Fishdoc, Charleston, Baystalker, and many many more continually post pictures on here when they're doing nothing but trolling for sales?


IT'S NOT FAIR to ANYONE who supports this site. The difference is I got the balls to say it publicly.

RANT OFF

Trolling for sales? You will never change Scott. You'll talk crap about anyone as long as it promotes your agenda. Do me a favor, leave me out of your pissing and moaning.

[Nebe]

This thread is all apples and oranges...

apples is that scott called one out for posting a picture of a lure that the guy sells some where else.. I think thats wrong as the guy didnt mention anything about selling or being contacted to sell..

oranges is about personal responsibility. Those that do sell should post respectfully and those who dont should do the same..