CT School Shooting

[BigFish]

Guns are not the problem...people are the problem....as usual!

[BigFish]

Gun control! People rail on about it after every incident such as this? While I agree that assault weapons have no place in the public's hands and should be banned......they have been tightening gun laws for years after these things happen.....and yet......they continue to happen and with greater frequency......and with greater body counts sadly. Its not guns that are the problem....it is a sick mind that is the problem! A mind sick enough to be willing to undertake such evil....will do anything to achieve that goal be it with guns, knives, explosives, gasoline......I can name a hundred ways to take a life off the top of my head. And a mind sick enough to hatch such a plot will do whatever they have to do to execute such a plan. Sad but true!

[justplugit]

Beyond all humanity. The only solace I can find is praying for
the parents. Can't even imagine how they must feel.

[BigFish]

Horrible....just horrible. A young girl who was killed, her Father just spoke......you just want to hug the man and cry.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by BigFish

While I agree that assault weapons have no place in the public's hands and should be banned......

Since gun control has been a major topic of the past 24 hours, I would like to clarify one thing... "assault weapon" is an arbitrary term created by politicians who drafted an impotent law that would not prevent or reduce the damage done in any of the recent atrocities. The media incorrectly dubs any long gun with a synthetic stock as an assault weapon.

In Massachusetts, say I own an AR-15 (btw, the "AR" in AR-15 stands for "ArmaLite" the original manufacturer, not "Assault Rifle" as the media frequently misinforms the public). If my AR-15 has a bayonet lug and a collapsible stock, it's considered an assault weapon. If you remove the bayonet lug, it's no longer an assault weapon. If I remove the bayonet lug and collapsible stock and then put a grenade launcher on it (yes, a grenade launcher), it's perfectly legal and does not fall under the 'assault weapon' definition. People throw around the term "assault weapon" without actually knowing what the term means mostly because the media has completely muddied the waters as to what the term actually means.

The following link is an infographic that very clearly explains terms like assault weapon and assault rifle and when something is does not fall within that category.
http://i.imgur.com/5SZ8x.jpg

Please, please keep in mind that I mean no disrespect and there's no intent to be demeaning. There is a ton of misinformation crafted by the media and my hope is that we can have a meaningful conversation if people have clarity as to what arbitrary political terms like "assault weapon" actually mean.

[Nebe]

The shooter didn't even use an assault rifle. He had 2 hand guns if my memory is correct.
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[JohnnyD]

Looks like 3 weapons in the school and one in his vehicle:
Conn. school shooter had 4 weapons - CBS News

As an example of the misinformation created by the media:
"A law enforcement source told CBS News that Adam Lanza had three weapons with him during the attack: Two handguns (a Sig Sauer and a Glock), and a Bushmaster .223 assault rifle; spent shells were found in the school."

The Bushmaster .223 is a semi-automatic AR-15. Assault rifles by definition have select-fire capability (burst or fully automatic). As such, not an assault rifle.

[ProfessorM]

ME said all the children were shot twice and by a rifle, not hand gun.

[BigFish]

Yup!

[Squid kids Dad]

Multiple times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Raider Ronnie]

This thing is unimaginable !
Shooting little kids, WTF
Can't imagine being one of those parents of the 20 kids.

[RIJIMMY]

still no therory on motive. Looks like the earlier reports that the shooters mom was a teacher are not true. I have no clue what the link to the school was.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

still no therory on motive.

My theory is that most of these mass murderers have normal intelligence but have social issues. Lanza was a loner who walked the halls with his head down and sat in the back of the class never talking to anyone. He was smart enough to know that no one bothered w/him and he didn't have normal friendships. He eventually got angrier and angrier and finally snapped - deciding to get back at society. The best way to get back at society would be to kill innocent people. Different from other attacks, he realized that the killing that would do the most harm would be of our most vulnerable -- our babies.

The first funeral is today in my town - right up the street.

[piemma]

I don't want to start a debate but I'm sure my position will.

Banning all the guns in this country will not solve the problem. What WILL solve the problem in schools at least, is put an armed security person in the school full time. And I mean armed. Not with pepper spray of a Tazer. Give him a Glock of Sig sidearm and an M4. Orders are someone coming into the school illegally, shoot to kill. End of story.
No more problem.

[Nebe]

IMO. We should ban any media coverage of shootings lime this. The shooter should die a mystery. Fame is all they want and the media gives it to them in spades.
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[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by piemma

I don't want to start a debate but I'm sure my position will.

Banning all the guns in this country will not solve the problem. What WILL solve the problem in schools at least, is put an armed security person in the school full time. And I mean armed. Not with pepper spray of a Tazer. Give him a Glock of Sig sidearm and an M4. Orders are someone coming into the school illegally, shoot to kill. End of story.
No more problem.

I dont have a problem with that. But man its a sorry day when we have to do that in this country

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Nebe

IMO. We should ban any media coverage of shootings lime this. The shooter should die a mystery. Fame is all they want and the media gives it to them in spades.
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YEP
don't give them a thing

kind of like not negotiating with terrorist, simply do not give in.
no mention of what his name is - nothing, refer to them as the assailant.

evil should not get any press


the media is in it for themselves, they should not be allowed to give any publicity to the murderer.


very sad

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

still no therory on motive. Looks like the earlier reports that the shooters mom was a teacher are not true. I have no clue what the link to the school was.

Here is my theory, you have a 20 year old man with anger, and developmental problems who was pissed at his mother for any number of reasons. He killed her, then decided to kill her students who he probably felt she loved more, because in his eyes it was their fault she didn't love him enough. As a result many innocent bystanders were tragically killed.

The only way to stop this stuff is high security entrances to schools. Replace all glass in all doors to the entrance and classrooms with bulletproof glass. Create a sort of holding area at the entrance come in first set of doors, then walk through metal detectors, then through next set of doors, only way in is to be buzzed in. Alarm all other exterior doors so no one can open one without it being detected, doing so would prevent someone from sneaking in with help. All classroom doors locked , but emergency latches on the inside to allow for emergency egress. As soon as you hear anything remotely like a gun shot, every room, and I mean every room in the school should go into lockdown, police should be called immediately. If you are not armed there is no reason to go out and check on what is going on, keep the threat out of the rooms where the majority are, let them roam the hallways aimlessly until the police arrive. I am sorry but school security is a joke, at most of the schools I have worked in or even my daughters.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I dont have a problem with that. But man its a sorry day when we have to do that in this country

The world changes and if you don't change with the world you get run over unfortunately...

They allow parents, an grandparents to get training with the Army in Israel so that they can guard schools, an chaperone trips carrying automatic weapons, they have not had an incident since they started doing this. The Israelis don't #^&#^&#^&#^& around and neither should we. Get tough on all gun crime, no more plea bargains for lighter sentences.
Boston has a gun court, because of the amount of gun related crimes, and, most of them are pled out because it's cheap and quick.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Here is my theory, you have a 20 year old man with anger, and developmental problems who was pissed at his mother for any number of reasons. He killed her, then decided to kill her students who he probably felt she loved more, because in his eyes it was their fault she didn't love him enough.

Mis-information by the media. She wasnt a teacher and had no connection to the school at all. Thats why I wonder why he targeted the school.

as a father of 2 elementary school kids, Im not so sure I want armed guards at my kids school. is that the America you want, really? Why not address the problem at the source. Where are our values? Kids today are raised in isolation, barely play outside and get coddled every step of the way. Back when I was a kid, we had fear of our parents, fear of the police, fear of bullies. Now every f'in thing is some orchestrated event for kids. Let kids get beat up, let them get bullied. Let them win or lose on their own. It builds character. Maybe let a little religion in school. Let kids have a christmas play or choir concert. let kids see some of the beauty in this world instead of Halo or Call of Duty. The problem is society. The problem is the parents. there were weapons when I was a kid yet this stuff was unheard of, WHY?

[piemma]

The Israelis don't #^&#^&#^&#^& around and neither should we.

AMEN!!! You may not like it Jim, but if it would keep your kids safe then it should happen. If the principle had been armed the dirt bag would have been dead before he could have killed any kids. She went at the kid unarmed. It's BS of the highest order. She should not have to give her life because she isn't armed or there isn't an armed security guard in the building.

Remember: "never bring a knife to a gun fight. You'll loose!" Scum want to come into my school with a gun I am shooting to kill!

[RIJIMMY]

so we need armed guards at
- daycares
- preschools
- public schools
- priovate schools
- sporting events
- schools plays
- school craft fairs
- cub scout meetings

Life in the suburban ghetto

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

so we need armed guards at
- daycares
- preschools
- public schools
- priovate schools
- sporting events
- schools plays
- school craft fairs
- cub scout meetings

Life in the suburban ghetto

birthday parties too.
quick! call blackwater!

sad subject, sad incident. i refuse to take part in any political debate on this. anything said will just fuel the arguments on one side or another. there's just no clear cut answer to any of what just happened other than "straight up effing horrible".

[piemma]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

so we need armed guards at
- daycares
- preschools
- public schools
- priovate schools
- sporting events
- schools plays
- school craft fairs
- cub scout meetings

Life in the suburban ghetto

Jimmy, I'm not making the rules. I'm just stating a fact of life in the world we live in. There are plenty of unemployed servicemen and women who could be certified.
I'm not in favor of a police state but I served this country to keep it free and I'm not about to let a bunch of 20 year old neo-nazi punks kill my children. We need to do what is necessary to protect our children and grandchildren.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by likwid

birthday parties too.
quick! call blackwater!

sad subject, sad incident. i refuse to take part in any political debate on this. anything said will just fuel the arguments on one side or another. there's just no clear cut answer to any of what just happened other than "straight up effing horrible".

looks like we agree for once!

Still looking for some answer on motive and why he targeted the school.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

looks like we agree for once!

Still looking for some answer on motive and why he targeted the school.

We may never know the real reason why, but I think he knew that killing innocent children would be about as impactful as it gets and he was looking to leave a mark so people would remember him. Clearly, he wasn't thinking like a normal, sane person thinks.

[Sea Dangles]

RIJ, you seem to be missing the point here.
The man was not sane,he was caught lighting himself on fire....are you expecting a motive from a nut job? Loughner was the same so don't expect anything cognizant from that camp either. That would be like wondering why EZ Ed misinterprets everything he reads.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

RIJ, you seem to be missing the point here.
The man was not sane,he was caught lighting himself on fire....are you expecting a motive from a nut job? Loughner was the same so don't expect anything cognizant from that camp either. That would be like wondering why EZ Ed misinterprets everything he reads.

not missing the point, just interested in the trail and the why. Most of these nutjobs leave some trail, web postings, hints to friends, etc. There is usually some reasoning, although twisted. This kid went from relative obscurity to killing his mom and then the school. I am just wondering what the police will piece together and what the story is, nothing more. I havent head about him lighting himself on fire, those are some of the details I am intersted in.

[Saltheart]

Nothing can be done about the nuts. When a person goes nuts he's dangerous , that's the nature of humans , they are dangerous. Nothing in the world is deadly than a human who has decided to kill.

I think the arming of people has a lot of merit. These psychos are basically cowards. They go after defenseless people because they are easy targets who are not going to shoot back. As soon as anyone with a weapon arrives at the scene they nuts kill themselves because they are afraid to be taken alive and have to face the punishment. So if they know or even think there may be armed people to face , they will stay away because they are cowards.

How do you go about arming the good people without giving more nuts the oppurtunity to be in amongst the sheep when they go haywire? I was once at a college dance/Beer party where a rent a cop , pulled out his handgun because a student walked out of the party with a beer. This guy was waving his gun all around within a crown of about 100 people all just standing on the walkways outside the dance. Without a doubt he was the most dangerous person there but he was purposely hired to be there to protect people. Anyway , you get the point that having armed peole around could backfire in many more circumstances than the rare event they are supposed to prevent.

I am not a gun control type. In fact I lean way the other way in the direction of arming everyone but you have to be careful about purposely planting wolves amongst the sheep. Most would agree that it would have been great if even one armed person had been there to empty their weapon into this nut but will there be a net gain or lose in safety by planting armed gunmen in all these public places?

I do like the idea of some more rigorous security features for school entry. People will figure out ways to bypass them but it may discourage some of the borderline nut cases.

The other thing that comes to my mind is the glorification of mass violence in todays movies and games. just 50 years ago a TV show had a white hat good guy and a black hat bad guy. Despite trying all ways to avoid a confrontation , the good guy was eventually forced to shoot the bad guy. Now movies start out with the supposed good guys wiping out a hundred unknowns just to get the action scenes rolling. Its now part of the culture kids grow up with to see mass murders taking place every day on TV and at the movies. All this teaching of killing as an insignificant thing gets imbedded into the minds of kids and then when they get older and go off the deep end , they act out. All this violence sells movie tickets and TV advertising. So for the sake of earning a few bucks , we create ticking timebombs.

Bottom line is that society has lost its moral values and the value of life is greatly discounted. For the most part the cowardly nuts do go after the easiest and softest targets. I don't think there is much that can be done about it in the short term . In the long term I think we need to get back to teaching that the hero is the person who stands up , even when alone , to injustice and not the super hero paramilitary who along with his gang of ex military go aroung killing hundreds of people at once and are considered a hero for doing it.

[Nebe]

Couldn't agree more
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