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Old 08-04-2019, 10:41 AM   #1
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Someone was listening

When Trump warned we were being invaded at our southern boarder, so he took down twenty Latino’s. Twenty four hours later no condemnation of domestic violence, no urgent plea by our leader to cease and desist, just silence and the minimal god bless.

GOP eliminated a domestic terrorist task force comprised of multiple agencies and I don’t need to beat up the assault rifle and common sense gun legislation. Good people on both sides.
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Old 08-04-2019, 10:46 AM   #2
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Yes, good people on both sides.

Are you saying that Law Abiding Gun Owning Citizens are bad people?

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Old 08-04-2019, 12:31 PM   #3
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So if Trump hadn't used the word "invaded" this shooting would not have happened?

How about if there were not mass illegal . . . oh what shall I say . . . entries in waves by the thousands, and if there had been proper border security (including the wall that was promised by previous administrations), and if there had not been subtle, even obvious, invitations or encouragements to come by various speeches, articles, legislations, which also made it easier to do so, this shooting would not have happened?

Or if some crazy who saw the attention that mass shooters get from the media . . . or this or that . . . maybe the shooting would not have occurred.

But . . . what the heck . . . let's just say it's Trump's fault. After all he uses words like invaded . . . and infested. THAT'S the problem.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:13 PM   #4
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Yes, good people on both sides.

Are you saying that Law Abiding Gun Owning Citizens are bad people?
Absolutely not, but assault weapons in the hands of someone spouting white supremacy and s president using words like an invasion among others is a recipe for what is now the 250th mass shooting this year alone. If that isn’t a signal we need better legislation or better leadership what is?
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:15 PM   #5
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So if Trump hadn't used the word "invaded" this shooting would not have happened?

How about if there were not mass illegal . . . oh what shall I say . . . entries in waves by the thousands, and if there had been proper border security (including the wall that was promised by previous administrations), and if there had not been subtle, even obvious, invitations or encouragements to come by various speeches, articles, legislations, which also made it easier to do so, this shooting would not have happened?

Or if some crazy who saw the attention that mass shooters get from the media . . . or this or that . . . maybe the shooting would not have occurred.

But . . . what the heck . . . let's just say it's Trump's fault. After all he uses words like invaded . . . and infested. THAT'S the problem.
I’m not stupid, but his words matter and the white supremacy movement has embraced Trump. Takes multiple steps to solve this, but it starts at the top.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:32 PM   #6
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When Ronald Reagan was president, conservatives made much of how words can change the world.

Now Trumplicans say it doesn’t matter what Trump says, it’s just words.

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Old 08-04-2019, 03:48 PM   #7
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I’m not stupid, but his words matter and the white supremacy movement has embraced Trump. Takes multiple steps to solve this, but it starts at the top.
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You're not stupid, but you're not being reasonable. The "top" has been around since the beginning of this illegal immigration problem, way before Trump. And the top, which is not just the President, has been botching it all along. Much of that failure has not been merely ineptitude, but intentional. Much of it has been political rhetoric which many have "listened" to a la in the title of your thread--including the immigrants who saw legislation and heard words that encouraged, not dissuaded, them to keep coming.

To blame this shooting on the use of a word that honestly described the situation is beyond being merely myopic. It is political disingenuousness--a minor factoid stretched into a big lie.

Not to recognize the real problem with illegal immigration, not to recognize that there has been a concerted effort to avoid a solution to it, and then to jump to the conclusion that Trump's word caused the shooting, is made-up stuff rather than rational thinking. When honest use of language re immigration becomes the supposed cause for a mass shooting, then we have gone too far down the rabbit hole of political opposition to have a rational discussion.

It is obvious that there is political opposition to solving the immigration problem, other than actually continuing the flow. And there is finally one guy who is actually trying to stop it. And it is obvious that this guy is a threat to the greater agenda of his opposition. And it is obvious that Trump is, therefor, being characterized as the most evil being possible, falsely smearing him as a racist, homophobe, misogynist, xenophobe, Nazi, Fascist, conspirer with the enemy, hater, inspirer of killers, whatever label can be concocted in order to destroy him.

So someone was listening alright, a lot of folks were, millions of them. Millions came here illegally because of what they heard. And millions are hearing about Trump being the devil incarnate. They are hearing that his words which accurately describe situations are actually dog whistles, code, triggers to violence. That his words, not the ineptitude, the lying, the deceit of our political class--that his words like "invasion" and "infested" are the problem--that such words, rightly used, are the cause of violence.

And your characterization that the White Supremacy movement has embraced Trump is a false connection to him. He has condemned them. But that connection is one of the concocted labels used to destroy him. As in his Charlottesville quote in which he said that there were good people on both sides. His opposition falsely, intentionally, twisted it into him saying that the white nationalists were good people. Trump specifically said that he was not referring to them, that very day. But they kept repeating the lie, and they still are, and people, perhaps like you, are listening to that lie And believing it.

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Old 08-04-2019, 04:06 PM   #8
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You're not stupid, but you're not being reasonable. The "top" has been around since the beginning of this illegal immigration problem, way before Trump. And the top, which is not just the President, has been botching it all along. Much of that failure has not been merely ineptitude, but intentional. Much of it has been political rhetoric which many have "listened" to a la in the title of your thread--including the immigrants who saw legislation and heard words that encouraged, not dissuaded, them to keep coming.

To blame this shooting on the use of a word that honestly described the situation is beyond being merely myopic. It is political disingenuousness--a minor factoid stretched into a big lie.

Not to recognize the real problem with illegal immigration, not to recognize that there has been a concerted effort to avoid a solution to it, and then to jump to the conclusion that Trump's word caused the shooting, is made-up stuff rather than rational thinking. When honest use of language re immigration becomes the supposed cause for a mass shooting, then we have gone too far down the rabbit hole of political opposition to have a rational discussion.

It is obvious that there is political opposition to solving the immigration problem, other than actually continuing the flow. And there is finally one guy who is actually trying to stop it. And it is obvious that this guy is a threat to the greater agenda of his opposition. And it is obvious that Trump is, therefor, being characterized as the most evil being possible, falsely smearing him as a racist, homophobe, misogynist, xenophobe, Nazi, Fascist, conspirer with the enemy, hater, inspirer of killers, whatever label can be concocted in order to destroy him.

So someone was listening alright, a lot of folks were, millions of them. Millions came here illegally because of what they heard. And millions are hearing about Trump being the devil incarnate. They are hearing that his words which accurately describe situations are actually dog whistles, code, triggers to violence. That his words, not the ineptitude, the lying, the deceit of our political class--that his words like "invasion" and "infested" are the problem--that such words, rightly used, are the cause of violence.

And your characterization that the White Supremacy movement has embraced Trump is a false connection to him. He has condemned them. But that connection is one of the concocted labels used to destroy him. As in his Charlottesville quote in which he said that there were good people on both sides. His opposition falsely, intentionally, twisted it into him saying that the white nationalists were good people. Trump specifically said that he was not referring to them, that very day. But they kept repeating the lie, and they still are, and people, perhaps like you, are listening to that lie And believing it.
The REAL problem is the WRONG people getting weapons that can inflict so much death in so little time, but Trumps words DO matter.
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Old 08-04-2019, 04:21 PM   #9
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100 round clips in both, why are those weapons not either better regulated or illegal?
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Old 08-04-2019, 04:32 PM   #10
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Trump didn’t create the problem but his behavior is exacerbating it. His near refusal to address these issues as a leader is disturbing to say the least and I think is seen as an endorsement by some.

Quit making excuses, we’re better than glossing over domestic terrorism.

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Old 08-04-2019, 06:01 PM   #11
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President Donald Trump warned Saturday that “consideration is being given” to declaring antifacist protesters — Antifa — a “terror” organization. He issued the threat even though Antifa followers haven’t been linked to a single killing, while the death toll of far-right extremists is surging. C@P

many in Tumps base still just sees these shooting's the actions of a single person (aka Crazy) no matter the reason .. even if the shooter themselves tells us why.. or its a false flag operation

but mention Antifa to the Trump faithful and OMG
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Old 08-04-2019, 08:25 PM   #12
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A few trump lies, cons and yes racism
Let’s start with birtherism
Trump tweets in 2012
Let's take a closer look at that birth certificate. @BarackObama was described in 2003 as being "born in Kenya."
Or maybe Ted Cruz
Feb 24, 2016 06:45:06 PM
Why would Texans vote for "liar" Ted Cruz when he was born in Canada, lived there for 4 years-and remained a Canadian citizen until recently [Twitter for Android]
Maybe you can block blacks from renting your apartments
https://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs...-0024-0034.pdf
Just start a fake university
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...65053544613528
Use a false identity to get into Forbes
And here’s a recording
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...65053679571602
A modeling agency
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...65052256280687
Jeffrey Epstein modeled his after it, he was so impressed.
Draft dodging
Tax scams
There’s a reason he hides his taxes
He even hid his high school grades
Claims to be top of his class at Wharton, funny he’s not listed as such in the graduation program
His whole life is built on lies
And his Presidency is no different from only the best to I won’t have time for golf
Everything is a facade, a reality tv show and he’s in charge
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
A few trump lies, cons and yes racism
Let’s start with birtherism
Trump tweets in 2012
Let's take a closer look at that birth certificate. @BarackObama was described in 2003 as being "born in Kenya."
Or maybe Ted Cruz
Feb 24, 2016 06:45:06 PM
Why would Texans vote for "liar" Ted Cruz when he was born in Canada, lived there for 4 years-and remained a Canadian citizen until recently [Twitter for Android]
Maybe you can block blacks from renting your apartments
https://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs...-0024-0034.pdf
Just start a fake university
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...65053544613528
Use a false identity to get into Forbes
And here’s a recording
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...65053679571602
A modeling agency
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...65052256280687
Jeffrey Epstein modeled his after it, he was so impressed.
Draft dodging
Tax scams
There’s a reason he hides his taxes
He even hid his high school grades
Claims to be top of his class at Wharton, funny he’s not listed as such in the graduation program
His whole life is built on lies
And his Presidency is no different from only the best to I won’t have time for golf
Everything is a facade, a reality tv show and he’s in charge
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Amazing. You wrapped up his whole life in a few nasty sentences. Nothing about his life is true and good.

Actually, that is why I can't take you seriously.

I knew very little about him before he ran for President. I watched an episode of his "Apprentice" TV program and didn't like it. He annoyed me with his hand gesture when he said your fired. That was it, except for some positive and glowing remarks about him on some talk shows and reviews of his TV program. He was, for me, at that time, a bit annoying along with a bit of self-importance in his TV character who could dismiss someone with a funny hand motion.

When he ran for President, anything that had been positive about him was turned into a nightmare person. He suddenly was transformed from a respected, successful, somewhat philanthropic person into a nightmare filled with everything that is bad.

OK, that's politics. But the continuous and ridiculous and untrue piling on annoyed me far, far, more than his peculiar "your fired" hand thing. The endless cascade and avalanche of outlandish and unfounded labels and characterizations he was pelted with went, for me, from feeling a little sorry for him to actually beginning to like him. Especially after it all caused me to search more information about him. The people and press that once liked and respected him turned about face and bitterly, nastily, despised him. And that grew into actual hatred and fear of him.

The before and after was not only too different, the after was filled with obviously false accusations.

So you can repeat all the negative labels and testimonials, and videos your hating heart desires. Your endless and irrational streams of abuse actually creates the opposite effect on many of us than you intend.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:25 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Got Stripers View Post
The REAL problem is the WRONG people getting weapons that can inflict so much death in so little time, but Trumps words DO matter.
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Trump has said nothing that would cause a rational person to kill a bunch of people. Censuring legitimate speech under the pretense of not provoking irrational or stupid people is a terrible idea. It is a method of thought and speech control.
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Old 08-05-2019, 02:15 AM   #15
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Amazing. You wrapped up his whole life in a few nasty sentences. Nothing about his life is true and good.
What of the list I posted is a lie?
The indictments?
The testimonials?
His own tweets?
Keep believing the “Stable Genius”

Trump’s paid for over 2200 adds on Facebook since May 2018 with “Invasion” in them.
No connection there

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Old 08-05-2019, 03:14 AM   #16
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Clearly the greatest president of our lifetime.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:18 AM   #17
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Trump has said nothing that would cause a rational person to kill a bunch of people, he has however since he started his 2016 campaign promoted violence (he will pay your legal fees) and empowered the hate filled white supremacy groups to attack those evil invaders.
Fixed it for you. Sure Trump has freedom of speech as we all do, but his words are heard by an entire country and the hate filled speech and the words not spoken matter. In his recent rally a participant yelled out shoot them in response to Trump stating I don’t know how to stop them and in typical Trump fashion he jokes that only in the pan handle can you do that. No condemnation of violence, no insistence chance must be peaceful and thru legislation, just a joke making it clear hey I can’t tell you not to.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:43 AM   #18
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latest meme making the rounds on FB ... I said this yesterday

Tumps base still just sees these shooting's the actions of a single person (aka Crazy) no matter the reason
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:52 AM   #19
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Violent video games

I wonder if the shooter thought he was helping to stop an "infestation"?
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:03 AM   #20
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here we go again, the libs blame trump (the dayton shooter appears to have been a democrat), the right pretends that the availability of high capacity magazines and things like that play no role whatsoever. the purist extremes in both sides circle
the wagons.

Guns don’t make people want to kill. but once someone snaps that way, high capacity magazines help many of them maximize the body count. and i’d bet
my life that the appearance of some of these rifles fuels the fantasies of the small number of very sick folks were talking about. Conservatives refuse to concede any of that.

But the gun is only the tool. The root cause is lack
of humanity. Everyone in North Dakota has guns, yet there’s almost no gun crime. There’s a very, very valuable lesson there, and it has to do with family values. Also, why didn’t we see this carnage in the 1950s? is it because our laws were better? or is it because family values were more traditional? Liberals refuse to concede
any of that.

we need to talk about bump sticks and high capacity magazines ( which don’t cause shootings but increase the body count). And we need to ask ourselves if obama calling people
in North Dakota bitter clingers, and Hilary calling them deplorable, is the right way to describe people
who embrace an old fashioned culture that despite whatever flaws come with it, embraces the notion that we view each other with some
humanity, and that we admit a higher purpose to our brief lives than pursuit of what pleases the self.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:44 AM   #21
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Leaders never pull the trigger themselves

But your attemp to change the topic isn't working
North Dakota ranks 30th in gun violence

Mass ranks 50th.

When adjusted for the population size, five of the deadliest 10 states are in the South, and six are among the 10 poorest U.S. states.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:49 AM   #22
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Violent video games

I wonder if the shooter thought he was helping to stop an "infestation"?
Newsweek had an article stating in the past year or so Trump has bought over 2200 facebook ads mentioning an "invasion" and nearly all about immigration.

But...but...but Clinton said deplorable! Give me a break.

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Old 08-05-2019, 08:52 AM   #23
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Cesar Sayoc to be sentenced today

Words don't matter and anyways it's the medias fault.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
The Media has a big responsibility to life and safety in our Country. Fake News has contributed greatly to the anger and rage that has built up over many years. News coverage has got to start being fair, balanced and unbiased, or these terrible problems will only get worse!
7:32 AM · Aug 5, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

Does this mean "give me media coverage that I like or my followers will slaughter people?"


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Old 08-05-2019, 08:56 AM   #24
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Leaders never pull the trigger themselves

But your attemp to change the topic isn't working
North Dakota ranks 30th in gun violence

Mass ranks 50th.

When adjusted for the population size, five of the deadliest 10 states are in the South, and six are among the 10 poorest U.S. states.
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wdmso, and what populations in the south, are committing the violence? is it born again christians with strong nuclear families?

i’m not changing the topic, i’m being honest about the topic. look at gun ownership versus gun crime.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:04 AM   #25
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Fixed it for you. Sure Trump has freedom of speech as we all do, but his words are heard by an entire country and the hate filled speech and the words not spoken matter. In his recent rally a participant yelled out shoot them in response to Trump stating I don’t know how to stop them and in typical Trump fashion he jokes that only in the pan handle can you do that. No condemnation of violence, no insistence chance must be peaceful and thru legislation, just a joke making it clear hey I can’t tell you not to.
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No, you didn't fix it for me, you fixed it for yourself. Which is exactly the trick the left is playing when it "fixes" things Trump says by falsely accusing him of saying something other than what he said--in order to fix it for themselves, to make him the evil that they will "fix."

I have actually watched some of his rallies, and, no, his campaign does not "promote" violence. I saw the context of what was said that you object to. The intent and motivation were not what you claim. What you've been fed is a pattern of "fixing."

But his campaign does promote a lot of other things that are good and necessary. And he appears to be one who actually tries to fulfill his promises, unlike the typical pols that preceded him.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:07 AM   #26
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Newsweek had an article stating in the past year or so Trump has bought over 2200 facebook ads mentioning an "infestation" and nearly all about immigration.

But...but...but Clinton said deplorable! Give me a break.
Sounds like an attempt to "fix" what Trump said. I have used the word infestation many times. I guess I've been fixed into a racist.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:16 AM   #27
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What of the list I posted is a lie?

I didn't read your list. Your lists have reached a point where to me they are worse than crying wolf too much. There doesn't seem to be enough connection between them and reality, so no chance that there will be the sudden surprise that one will finally be something dangerous.

Trump’s paid for over 2200 adds on Facebook since May 2018 with “Invasion” in them.
No connection there
Nope. No connection. Invasion is a very good and useful word. When I have seen Trump use it, it was spot on. So, is there a certain number of times you can use the word "invasion" without becoming a racist?

How many times have you used the word? Bet you don't know.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:36 AM   #28
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Newsweek had an article stating in the past year or so Trump has bought over 2200 facebook ads mentioning an "infestation" and nearly all about immigration.

But...but...but Clinton said deplorable! Give me a break.
she did say deplorable. and is she in the oval
office at the moment?

Spence, why didn’t we see this level of carnage (mass shootings and garden variety gang violence) in the 1950s? Is it because we had better laws back then? Were guns not available back then? Did Eisenhower single
handedly suppress violence? Or is it all Trumps fault?

Or is violence correlated with the breakdown of the nuclear family?

Have fun answering that. You can’t, not in a way that doesn’t take a big dump all over your worldview.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:50 AM   #29
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Nope. No connection. Invasion is a very good and useful word. When I have seen Trump use it, it was spot on. So, is there a certain number of times you can use the word "invasion" without becoming a racist?

How many times have you used the word? Bet you don't know.
In a speech, never.

Perhaps in a discussion about ticks.

I worry more about the attitudes that Trump promotes with his fear-mongering than any of the racist smokescreen.
Plenty more Trump invasion claims here:
https://factba.se/search#invad

and then you have his tweets

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order. Most children come without parents...
11:02 AM · Jun 24, 2018·
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Many Gang Members and some very bad people are mixed into the Caravan heading to our Southern Border. Please go back, you will not be admitted into the United States unless you go through the legal process. This is an invasion of our Country and our Military is waiting for you!
10:41 AM · Oct 29, 2018·Twitter for iPhone
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
The Mayor of Tijuana, Mexico, just stated that “the City is ill-prepared to handle this many migrants, the backlog could last 6 months.” Likewise, the U.S. is ill-prepared for this invasion, and will not stand for it. They are causing crime and big problems in Mexico. Go home!
1:42 PM · Nov 18, 2018·Twitter for iPhone
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Humanitarian Crisis at our Southern Border. I just got back and it is a far worse situation than almost anyone would understand, an invasion! I have been there numerous times - The Democrats, Cryin’ Chuck and Nancy don’t know how bad and dangerous it is for our ENTIRE COUNTRY....
11:04 AM · Jan 11, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
More troops being sent to the Southern Border to stop the attempted Invasion of Illegals, through large Caravans, into our Country. We have stopped the previous Caravans, and we will stop these also. With a Wall it would be soooo much easier and less expensive. Being Built!
9:52 AM · Jan 31, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Senate Republicans are not voting on constitutionality or precedent, they are voting on desperately needed Border Security & the Wall. Our Country is being invaded with Drugs, Human Traffickers, & Criminals of all shapes and sizes. That’s what this vote is all about. STAY UNITED!
12:54 PM · Mar 6, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
....and renovated, with MUCH MORE to follow shortly. Tens of thousands of illegals are being apprehended (captured) at the Border and NOT allowed into our Country. With another President, millions would be pouring in. I am stopping an invasion as the Wall gets built. #MAGA
5:13 PM · Mar 9, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
...travesty that is taking place in allowing millions of people to easily meander through their country and INVADE the U.S., not to mention the Drugs & Human Trafficking pouring in through Mexico. Are the Drug Lords, Cartels & Coyotes really running Mexico? We will soon find out!
4:37 PM · Jun 1, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
People have been saying for years that we should talk to Mexico. The problem is that Mexico is an “abuser” of the United States, taking but never giving. It has been this way for decades. Either they stop the invasion of our Country by Drug Dealers, Cartels, Human Traffickers....
7:44 AM · Jun 2, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

and his speech

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:58 AM   #30
PaulS
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Trump and his wife Ivanka both condemned wife Nationalism - good for them. finally.

I feel sorry for the police having to rush in w/no body armour and pistols to help protect us when there up against military style weapons.
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