Sincere ? on walls

[Jim in CT]

So Trump mentioned in his speech last night, that walls have proven very effective in San Diego, in El Paso, in Yuma.

So here is my question to Spence, Pete, WDMSO, Nebe, etc...why wouldn't Trump's proposed expanded wall, work as well as walls have worked in the past? Why did all the prominent democrats support the wall in 2006 and 2013?

Please note, pointing out cases of people getting around walls, might show that walls aren't perfect, but it doesn't show that walls don't help.


A wall will not eliminate illegal crossings. But where walls have been built, they have reduced illegal crossings, significantly.

You're also not refuting my point by suggesting that we need other forms of security (more agents at ports of entry, drones, cameras), because Trump is asking for that, too. No one is saying the wall is all we need. We are saying that as a component of a broader security package, walls help.

Other than partisan resistance, I see no point or logic behind the resistance to the wall.

[Pete F.]

Illegal crossings on the southern border have gone down 76% since 2000
Must be those walls
If Trump stopped shouting WALL, he could get a bipartisan agreement that would do something about border security. But when you have the far right saying DACA can't be permanent what else can you give the Democrats to get what you want. A skilled negotiator could come up with a comprehensive immigration solution and likely nobody would get exactly what they wanted.
The solution is more than WALL

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Illegal crossings on the southern border have gone down 76% since 2000
Must be those walls
If Trump stopped shouting WALL, he could get a bipartisan agreement that would do something about border security. But when you have the far right saying DACA can't be permanent what else can you give the Democrats to get what you want. A skilled negotiator could come up with a comprehensive immigration solution and likely nobody would get exactly what they wanted.
The solution is more than WALL

"The solution is more than WALL"

Name one person of influence, who says that the entire solution is a wall. Again, you can't go two seconds, without responding to something, that no one has ever said.

"Must be those walls"

Did walls work in San Diego, Yuma, and El Paso? Yes or no?

"A skilled negotiator could come up with a comprehensive immigration "

So when Pelosi refuses to budge, that's all Trump's fault. But you're not biased, no sir.

You dodged, and I mean you completely avoided, the points I made and the questions I asked. Instead, you pretended that conservatives are saying all we need is a wall.

This is what one does, when one has lost, but can't admit it.

WALLS WORK. I never said that walls always work, nor did I ever say that nothing else ever works. I said that walls help. You stated absolutely nothing to contradict that.

You hate Trump so much, you can't admit that barriers work.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"The solution is more than WALL"

Name one person of influence, who says that the entire solution is a wall. Again, you can't go two seconds, without responding to something, that no one has ever said.

It is questionable if he is a person of influence.
But he does keep shouting WALL

Donald J. Trump
‏
Verified account

@realDonaldTrump
Feb 5
More
Tremendous numbers of people are coming up through Mexico in the hopes of flooding our Southern Border. We have sent additional military. We will build a Human Wall if necessary. If we had a real Wall, this would be a non-event!
Donald J. Trump
‏
Verified account

@realDonaldTrump
Jan 31
More
Lets just call them WALLS from now on and stop playing political games! A WALL is a WALL!

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It is questionable if he is a person of influence.
But he does keep shouting WALL

Donald J. Trump
‏
Verified account

@realDonaldTrump
Feb 5
More
Tremendous numbers of people are coming up through Mexico in the hopes of flooding our Southern Border. We have sent additional military. We will build a Human Wall if necessary. If we had a real Wall, this would be a non-event!
Donald J. Trump
‏
Verified account

@realDonaldTrump
Jan 31
More
Lets just call them WALLS from now on and stop playing political games! A WALL is a WALL!

Trumps plan calls for more than a wall. You know this.

[Sea Dangles]

He said it last night,if you were paying attention PeteF. His plan,as noted,DOES include a wall. You seem to interpret this as meaning exclusively; a wall. Listen to ALL the words PeteF. and become enlightened. It shouldn’t be too hard to digest this information and come to a reasonable conclusion.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Trumps plan calls for more than a wall. You know this.

Not sure he understands that

Dec 23, 2018 11:05:26 PM
The most important way to stop gangs, drugs, human trafficking and massive crime is at our Southern Border. We need Border Security, and as EVERYONE knows, you can’t have Border Security without a Wall. The Drones & Technology are just bells and whistles. Safety for America! [Twitter for iPhone]
Dec 23, 2018 09:17:54 AM
The only way to stop drugs, gangs, human trafficking, criminal elements and much else from coming into our Country is with a Wall or Barrier. Drones and all of the rest are wonderful and lots of fun, but it is only a good old fashioned Wall that works! [Twitter for iPhone]

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It is questionable if he (Trump) is a person of influence.

Says the guy who starts 5 threads a day attacking the man. He has influenced you to go completely off the deep end...

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

He said it last night,if you were paying attention PeteF. His plan,as noted,DOES include a wall. You seem to interpret this as meaning exclusively; a wall. Listen to ALL the words PeteF. and become enlightened. It shouldn’t be too hard to digest this information and come to a reasonable conclusion.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Having a plan is one step in our governmental process.
The president proposes a budget, Trumps last one included 1.6 billion for barriers.
Congress is not just a rubber stamp, so Step 2 is getting the legislative bodies to agree to something that accomplishes your goal. This typically requires negotiation and rarely is just based on a demand.
He may have done step one but now he needs to learn how to do step 2.
It's doubtful that he will negotiate, so far all he has done is offer retreads of previously rejected items as attempts at negotiation.
Now if the far sides of the political spectrum had less influence, including several fools in the WH, the members of Congress could come up with bipartisan solutions and something could happen but both sides seem to be stuck and Trump is not helping by going WALL.
It's not about what is needed for the country to him, he just needs to win period and that very likely will not work.
Pelosi and Coulter have him by the cojones and he has no clue how to get out of their grip, or deal with Congress.

[Jim in CT]

Pete, did barriers work in San Diego, El Paso, and Yuma?

That's a yes or no question.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Pelosi and Coulter have him by the cojones and he has no clue how to get out of their grip, or deal with Congress.

Which explains why he never wins or gets anything done.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Which explains why he never wins or gets anything done.

And it will get worse unless he learns to negotiate.

His party controlled both houses for the first two years of his term and
according to GovTrack, Trump has signed 176 bills since his inauguration. That’s about on par with Barack Obama at this point in his presidency (174), and slightly behind George W. Bush (187). But both Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush far surpassed those numbers in the pieces of legislation signed in their first 100 days, 262 and 309 bills, respectively.

But what about those post office namings and “National Country Music Day” designations? NBC News counted each piece of legislation passed under Trump and the previous four presidents and removed those that simply named, commemorated, awarded or appointed an individual, group or cause.

Under that count, Trump is also about on par with his previous two successors. Of the 176 bills he has signed into law, 132 are classified as substantive, compared to 118 for Obama and 133 for George W. Bush. But George H.W. Bush and Clinton are far ahead of all three, clocking in at 170 and 177.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Having a plan is one step in our governmental process.
The president proposes a budget, Trumps last one included 1.6 billion for barriers.
Congress is not just a rubber stamp, so Step 2 is getting the legislative bodies to agree to something that accomplishes your goal. This typically requires negotiation and rarely is just based on a demand.
He may have done step one but now he needs to learn how to do step 2.
It's doubtful that he will negotiate, so far all he has done is offer retreads of previously rejected items as attempts at negotiation.
Now if the far sides of the political spectrum had less influence, including several fools in the WH, the members of Congress could come up with bipartisan solutions and something could happen but both sides seem to be stuck and Trump is not helping by going WALL.
It's not about what is needed for the country to him, he just needs to win period and that very likely will not work.
Pelosi and Coulter have him by the cojones and he has no clue how to get out of their grip, or deal with Congress.

PeteF. ,this is a clever response to nothing I said. Well played.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

And it will get worse unless he learns to negotiate.

His party controlled both houses for the first two years of his term and
according to GovTrack, Trump has signed 176 bills since his inauguration. That’s about on par with Barack Obama at this point in his presidency (174), and slightly behind George W. Bush (187). But both Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush far surpassed those numbers in the pieces of legislation signed in their first 100 days, 262 and 309 bills, respectively.

But what about those post office namings and “National Country Music Day” designations? NBC News counted each piece of legislation passed under Trump and the previous four presidents and removed those that simply named, commemorated, awarded or appointed an individual, group or cause.

Under that count, Trump is also about on par with his previous two successors. Of the 176 bills he has signed into law, 132 are classified as substantive, compared to 118 for Obama and 133 for George W. Bush. But George H.W. Bush and Clinton are far ahead of all three, clocking in at 170 and 177.

Oh, so what matters is how many bills there are, not what those bills actually do.

Low unemployment, high GDP, high stock market, ISIS on the run, more women working, more blacks working, crime reform bill.

But let's ignore all that, because they don't send the message you want to send.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Says the guy who starts 5 threads a day attacking the man. He has influenced you to go completely off the deep end...

One of the most honest and true comments to date!!!

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Says the guy who starts 5 threads a day attacking the man. He has influenced you to go completely off the deep end...

Said the guy who's daily threads are how he and his hero are victimized by liberals.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Pete, did barriers work in San Diego, El Paso, and Yuma?

That's a yes or no question.

Asked and answered, just search thru previous threads and you can find your gratification.
You, like Trump, keep harping on the same subject, in the same way, insisting you are right and wondering why you don't get what you want.
Didn't work for my kids when they were throwing a tantrum either.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Asked and answered, just search thru previous threads and you can find your gratification.
You, like Trump, keep harping on the same subject, in the same way, insisting you are right and wondering why you don't get what you want.
Didn't work for my kids when they were throwing a tantrum either.

no you did not answer that question. please do so?

when your beliefs get annihilated by such a simple question, perhaps it’s time
for some new beliefs.

i keep harping in the same subject? isn’t past experience with walls , worth discussing, when talking about expanding the wall?

i don’t get what i want? which party currently holds
more elected offices?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

You guys crack me up, all these posts over a problem that really is minor when you consider Syria, Iran, Venezuela, nuclear arms agreements. They TRUMP the wall by a margin that makes this thread stupid imho. Trumps ability to mess with foreign policy to the point really exceptional people leave because they can’t in good conscience carry out orders by this POTUS. But hey keep beating up the pros and cons of the fing wall to dramatically slow the problem that has been slowing itself for a decade and is only a part of a much larger immigration policy issue.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You guys crack me up, all these posts over a problem that really is minor when you consider Syria, Iran, Venezuela, nuclear arms agreements. They TRUMP the wall by a margin that makes this thread stupid imho. Trumps ability to mess with foreign policy to the point really exceptional people leave because they can’t in good conscience carry out orders by this POTUS. But hey keep beating up the pros and cons of the fing wall to dramatically slow the problem that has been slowing itself for a decade and is only a part of a much larger immigration policy issue.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Is anyone saying ignore Syria or Iran? We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

There are at least 12 million people living here, and we don't know who they are. Is that minor?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

no you did not answer that question. please do so?
I’ve answered it before but it’s fun to watch your head spin, yes peaches work, though a steel fence is better
when your beliefs get annihilated by such a simple question, perhaps it’s time
for some new beliefs.

i keep harping in the same subject? isn’t past experience with walls , worth discussing, when talking about expanding the wall?

i don’t get what i want? which party currently holds
more elected offices?
It doesn’t work like that, part of the plan is you need more seats to do whatever you want
So to do what you want you need to negotiate
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

See above
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You guys crack me up, all these posts over a problem that really is minor when you consider Syria, Iran, Venezuela, nuclear arms agreements. They TRUMP the wall by a margin that makes this thread stupid imho. Trumps ability to mess with foreign policy to the point really exceptional people leave because they can’t in good conscience carry out orders by this POTUS. But hey keep beating up the pros and cons of the fing wall to dramatically slow the problem that has been slowing itself for a decade and is only a part of a much larger immigration policy issue.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You’re right but some love that WALL
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

There are at least 12 million people living here, and we don't know who they are. Is that minor?

and the majority are visa overstayers but your hung up on the wall


OMG the horror I dont know who lives 5 houses down from me let me call ICE

Fear is a horrible thing...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

and the majority are visa overstayers but your hung up on the wall


OMG the horror I dont know who lives 5 houses down from me let me call ICE

Fear is a horrible thing...

i’m relying on what the border agents and obama’s head of
border patrol are saying. how could a politician possibly know more than a true subject matter expert?

i keep asking you if walls workedmin san diego, yuma, and el paso, and you keep dodging.

i can logically and reasonably explain my position. i support walls because (1) history has shown they add value, and (2) the actual experts are saying we need to expand it.

all you can do to defend your position, is lib insults. you can’t answer a yes/no question.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[DZ]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i’m relying on what the border agents and head of
border patrol are saying. how could a politician possibly know more than a true subject matter expert?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yep, they should have the most weight in determining if a wall is effective. If they say it's needed and effective we should be funding it.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i keep asking you if walls workedmin san diego, yuma, and el paso, and you keep dodging.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This has been asked a dozen times by you and answered. Is the terrain the same in san diego or el paso as it is in the middle of the desert?

And it makes no sense to go only by the word of a border guard who is responsible for a small slice of the border versus a rep. who knows info. about many many times the length of what a border guard knows. All the reps. say there is no need for a fence from coast to coast.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

This has been asked a dozen times by you and answered. Is the terrain the same in san diego or el paso as it is in the middle of the desert?

And it makes no sense to go only by the word of a border guard who is responsible for a small slice of the border versus a rep. who knows info. about many many times the length of what a border guard knows. All the reps. say there is no need for a fence from coast to coast.

"This has been asked a dozen times by you and answered."

I don't see your answer, so instead of saying "this has been answered", can you just answer it again?

"Is the terrain the same in san diego or el paso as it is in the middle of the desert? "

I don't know. Is the terrain identical in San Diego, and Yuma, and El Paso? Is the terrain that much different where Trump wants to expand them? If the terrain is different, why did all the dems still support expanding the wall in 2006 and 2013?

Why does the Israeli southern wall, on the desert, help stop illegal immigration?

"And it makes no sense to go only by the word of a border guard "

How about Obama's head of the Border Patrol? He was responsible for the whole border, he was appointed by Obama and fired by Trump, so he has no reason to lie to make Trump look good. Does he know anything?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

All the reps. say there is no need for a fence from coast to coast.

Then I have good news for you. Trump also isn't asking for a wall from coast to coast, not even close. Just where he thinks it makes sense.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"This has been asked a dozen times by you and answered."

I don't see your answer, so instead of saying "this has been answered", can you just answer it again?So are prob. the most prolific poster here and either miss responses or choose to ignore them but complain that people aren't responding to your question and you wonder why they don't respond to each and every question.

"Is the terrain the same in san diego or el paso as it is in the middle of the desert? "

I don't know. Is the terrain identical in San Diego, and Yuma, and El Paso? Is the terrain that much different where Trump wants to expand them? If the terrain is different, why did all the dems still support expanding the wall in 2006 and 2013?

Why does the Israeli southern wall, on the desert, help stop illegal immigration?

BC Isreal is different and there are spots where you can walk out of your house go 50 yards and cross the border - same as SD or EP. That isn't the case in middle of the desert or on the Rio Grande.

By your logic since there are flood control walls on the naugatuck river in Ansonia and Derby we need to put another 70 miles of flood control walls on the remainder of the river since they have also flooded in the past.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

BC Isreal is different and there are spots where you can walk out of your house go 50 yards and cross the border - same as SD or EP. That isn't the case in middle of the desert or on the Rio Grande.

By your logic since there are flood control walls on the naugatuck river in Ansonia and Derby we need to put another 70 miles of flood control walls on the remainder of the river since they have also flooded in the past.

So I'll ask you then, did walls work in San Diego, Yuma, and El Paso?

If the remaining terrain is so un-fit for expanded walls, why did dems approve it, in 2006 and in 2013?