Fish Farming

[Raven]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science....ap/index.html


It would be cool if they did this.....on a mass scale.

[Nebe]

of course b ush backs it. if they go through with that plan, the oil companies wont have to pay to remove them. But hey, if it works and is profitable, more power too them...

I am always the skeptic

[MakoMike]

What bothers me about the whole thing is that it takes 8 pounds of fish meal (for food) to produce one pound of fish. Now where do you think all that fish meal is going to come from?

[Fly Rod]

I seen that some where the other day!!!!

Bad plan!!! It has been proven from other fish farming programs that between the fish meal that does not get consumed and the fish droppings that go to the bottom is not healthy for the area!!!! Creates oxygen depleted areas and spreads alot of disease amongest fish!!!! Case in point is the fish farm off of Maine where hundreds of thousands of pounds of salmon have had to be destroyed!!! Farmed raised fish are better off being raised in concrete pins where they can be scrubbed and disinfected from time to time!!!!!

The place in Maine has gone belly up a couple of times, but seems someone comes along and thinks that they can make it work!!!!

[Raven]

Aquaculture Research Information Sheet: Nutrition Research
One of the main factors limiting the expansion of aquaculture is the development of nutritionally adequate, cost-effective diets. Feed and feeding can contribute up to 70% of total operating costs for fish and prawn farms. The protein source of choice for most aquaculture diets is fishmeal yet this ingredient is only produced in very small quantities in Australia. Global production of fishmeal is static or declining yet demand, especially for aquaculture, is increasing rapidly. This has led to price escalation.

Replacement of fishmeal is a major international research priority. In Australia we have abundant supplies of agricultural proteins, including vegetable and animal meals, and we have been very successful at utilising these ingredients to produce very cheap, cost-effective diets for pigs and poultry. At NSW Fisheries we have now developed high-performance diets without fishmeal for the freshwater native silver perch. Research with snapper is also underway and low fishmeal diets have been successful at a laboratory scale. Collaborative research with other species, eg. barramundi, prawns and salmon has also been successful.

Research is continuing to evaluate and improve alternative ingredients to fishmeal. Some of the most promising ingredients include high protein, low-ash meatmeals, poultry-offal meal, de-hulled lupins and modified wheat gluten products. Oilseeds and other grains are also valuable ingredients. Further processing of some ingredients such as fine grinding and the removal of husks or cooking can increase the use of Australian agricultural ingredients. Defining nutritional requirements is also an important priority. Research in this area on protein requirements at different energy contents has been successfully completed for silver perch and snapper. Work on defining requirements for essential fatty acids has also been completed for silver perch. Requirements must be met for rapid growth and oversupplying essential nutrients is expensive and can increase problems with water quality.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Flyrod; I think part of the reason for using these spots in the open ocean is to eliminate those problems....

MakoMike hit it on the nose... 8lbs of fishmeal = pogies etc..

Bad Idea, support propperly regulated commercial fishing....

[Fly Rod]

And sick, virus contanminated seafarm raised fish that spread the contamination to wild fish either by there feces or escaping and spreading disease = 0 pogies and other wild fish!!!!!!

Now if they are having this problem in the cold waters of Maine and northern Europe, I would think that the problem would be greater in warmer southern waters!!!!

Let's hope I'm wrong about that!!!!
All the scientific data at the moment shows that ocean farming fish is not working!!!!!

They are also farming Giant Bluefin Tuna and they are feeding these fish tons of bait fish!!!! and scientist are worried about the depletion of the bio-mass of bait fish!!!!

They need to find a better way!!!!!

[scoobe]

Did you know that farm raised salmon are more toxic than the wild ones? That's from all the freakin crap in the feed.

[Fly Rod]

Try eating a farmed raised salmon and then spend the extra couple of bucks a pound and eat wild king salmon!!! BIGGGGGG differance!!!

A wild salmon weighs 1lb. at a year old!!! Farm raised weighs 6lbs. at a year old!!! "WHY"!! "CHEMICALS

[Raven]

i watched a show yesterday on Area 51
that i found extremely scary....
concerning the burning of plutonium waste by dousing it
with jet fuel and setting it ablaze in areas the size of a football field
with president clinton signing into law that they are totally exempt of
epa rules or standards so now
any pollution is possible in my mind.

[Bass Babe]

Nevermind the expense, or the eutrophication of the immediate area. Hatcheries in the open ocean could have escapees, effectively peeing in the gene pool. I would explain, but I think this NMFS memo says it better: http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/publicatio...30/leider.html. We should work on conserving our wild fish stocks instead of relying on technology to fix the results of our misuse of resources.

[outfished]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Try eating a farmed raised salmon and then spend the extra couple of bucks a pound and eat wild king salmon!!! BIGGGGGG differance!!!

A wild salmon weighs 1lb. at a year old!!! Farm raised weighs 6lbs. at a year old!!! "WHY"!! "CHEMICALS

Fly Rod, I agree 100%. I used to eat farmed trout and salmon until I had a wild salmon from upstate maine. It blew my mind and I swore I would nerver eat farmed again. I Don't even bother fishing for them any longer. There is some data that farmed fish contain higher doses of mercury, but the farmers will dispute that. Trader Joe's carries wild salmon Made a believer out of my GF!

[zacs]

Originally Posted by outfished

Fly Rod, I agree 100%. I used to eat farmed trout and salmon until I had a wild salmon from upstate maine. It blew my mind and I swore I would nerver eat farmed again. I Don't even bother fishing for them any longer. There is some data that farmed fish contain higher doses of mercury, but the farmers will dispute that. Trader Joe's carries wild salmon Made a believer out of my GF!

I have tried to stay away from this as long as I could, but...

1) I agree, wild salmon is better than farmed salmon. However, outside of The nortwest, good fresh wild salmon is hard to come by, where good fresh farmed is readily available. I thought the wild atlantic salmon was endangered in the North East???

2) Fly Rod, farmed salmon do not grow faster because of chemicals. It is a combination of selective breeding and feed program, combined with inactivity. Immgaine if you just sat on the couch all day with someone constantly throwing fritos at you.

3) There is no data that farmed salmon contian higher levels of mercury. There was a paper that said farmed salmon contained higher levels of PCBs last year, but was later retracted.

4) I agree that there is a problem with fishmeal (ie reduction of wild biomass), but I truly believe that they will be able to use soy protien before the end of the decade.

5) Escapees are a problem that need to be solved

6) Bass babe, they have been farming fish in China for 5000 years, so I don't think that this is a technogical issue. I think that like you said, it should be highly regulated, like comericial fishing.

7) Open ocean fish farming would reduce a lot of the contamination/eutrification issues that are brought up. Unfortunately with current tech, escapees increase.

8) I have been to aquaculture facilities in Maine, Alabama, Missippi, Vancouver, Mexico, Norway, Iceland, Chile, Vietnam, China, Thailand, and Spain. Some are world class and some would make you want to puke.

9) There are several other points that have been made that are off base, but I have to go.

FYI, as a bias disclosure, I am a purveyor of both farm raised and wild caught species of fish and shellfood.

-Zac

[MakoMike]

The escapee problem could be easily solved if they only farmed fish native to the area, for example, red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico. And escapees would just join the wild population. The escapees have only become a problem where they are not native, like farming atlantic salmon the the west coast.

I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to solve the fish meal problem.

[Fly Rod]

Zacs

You must be involved with farm fishing!!!!

Have you ever eaten farm raised fresh water cat fish???? Compared to a saltwater catfish!!!!

When in season, here in gloucester, cape ann, we get Alaskan king salmon flash frozen and shipped next day delivery!!! Out of season it is frozen and then thawed!!!! And the orange color of king salamon is natural, not injected like farmed raised which is a grayish color and then a orange dye is injected!!! When I used the word "chemical", the dye, growth hormones and a dozen types of anti biortics are given these fish and yet they still get disease!!!!

MakoMike!!
I understand your drift about farming native to the area fish, but the problem of these fish passing on disease to wild fish in the area would be a big problem to the wild fish, like a pestilential epidemic disease "plague" !!!!

[outfished]

Think twice about fish farms
http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/salfarprob.html

[MakoMike]

Strikes me that that article is more than a bit boased against fish farms. I don't think they are trouble free, but according to that peice they should be standing shoulder to shoulder with the devil.

[zacs]

OK, there are issues with every industry.
I am only involved in fish farming in that I sell fish, farmed and wild. I happen to know a lot about the industry. As I said earlier, I travel around the USA & world sourcing and selling wild & farmed fish. I have no bias towards fish farming in particular, personally I would rather sell (and eat) wild fish all day long. However, FlyRod, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Have you ever eaten farm raised fresh water cat fish???? Compared to a saltwater catfish!!!!

Yes, but what is the point They are completely two different species of fish. Ocean catfish, AKA Wolf Fish, AKA Lup Du Mer, AKA Anarhichas lupus, is one of the best eating fish in the atlantic. Freshwater catfish, AKA channel cat, AKA Ictalurus punctatus, is pretty nasty, IMO. Farmed is more mild than wild. But unless you were raised on it, they are both prety nasty. I sell a ton of farm raised channel cat. There is really no comerical channel cat industry, outside of some localized stuff around the mississippi river valley.

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

And the orange color of king salamon is natural, not injected like farmed raised which is a grayish color and then a orange dye is injected!!!

WRONG!!! In the feed of salmon is a chemical called astaxanthin. This is the exact same chemical in shrimp's shells that makes them pink or lobster shellls that makes them orange. It is not injected into the fish. They eat it just like they would be eating shrimp in the wild. Does it matter that it was manufactured instead of natural? Not to me. It is certainly not "dye."

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

When I used the word "chemical", the dye, growth hormones and a dozen types of anti biortics are given these fish and yet they still get disease!!!!

So we addressed the "dye", they are not given growth hormones [as far as I know, if I am wrong, please show me some proof], and they are given antibiotics - Aren't you?

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

I understand your drift about farming native to the area fish, but the problem of these fish passing on disease to wild fish in the area would be a big problem to the wild fish, like a pestilential epidemic disease "plague" !!!!

The main problem with escapees in not introduction of a non-native specie, it is pollution of local genetics. If you farm raise a redfish, you will be buying your smolt from a breeder? (not sure of the industry term) that has bred those fish to be fast growing, high yielding fish, through selective breeding. This fish then escapes and breeeds with wild fish, and "pollutes" the local gentics. This is bad. They have created? genetically engineered fish, but it is not approved to use them (yet), and I am upposed to farming genetically engineered "frakenfish."

They do get disseases every now and then, and sometimes it is serious and the fish need to be killed, but I don't think that this has been a big problem spreading to wild populations. I am not sure, though. I will ask some guys that would know.

Flyrod, do you feel the same about the other types of farm raised seafood we eat? Shrimp, scallops, clams, oysters, tilapia, red drum, black drum, etc...??? Shrimp is the most farmed of all. It is almost impossible to get wild shrimp these days. It is also hard to get GOOD farmed shrimp these days. Most of whats at the markets & restaurants is overtreated, chinese, farm raised white shrimp
But give me a good untreated farm raised equadorian black tiger any day

Originally Posted by outfished

Think twice about fish farms
http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/salfarprob.html

I thiink I have said enough, but I will end on this. The health benefeits of eating fish so highly outweigh any of the detriments of fish farming (other than the fishmeal, but like I said, I think that is very short term), that we should encourage all attempts to bring this highly nutrtious source of protien to our nations consumers, and get them off beef, chix, and pork.

-Zac

[Fly Rod]

Yes !!! I'm right about you being involved in the farm raised fishing industry!!!

I understand your bitterness when I or other people like, Outfished and Scoobe, go by scientific data and educational programs!!!

I come from a city that was the "NUMBER ONE FISHING CAPITAL OF THE WORLD"!!!!! and "THE OLDEST FISHING PORT IN THIS COUNTRY!!!!

You must be a fish monger, fish broker!!!!! IF you know all about it like you say you do, you must buy fish, shrimp etc: in large quanities and sell it for a couple of pennies more per pound and make plenty of money in doing so!!!

For those that do not know the industry, a fish monger or broker buys thousands of pounds of fish at a time and unloads it for a couple of pennies more per pound making big bucks which I find nothing wrong in making a buck, completely leagal!!!

99% of all Tiger shrimp are farmed raised as is white shrimp!!! If you are not a fish monger, then I would have to say that my daughter who sells millions of pounds of shrimp a day knows more then you!!!

And futher more, when you buy fresh shrimp or good quality IQFs they are not orange, blue ,green or whatever color, they are not injected with a dye, they are whitish gray and turn orange when boiled and or sauteed which is a natural color!!! "YOU MUST SELL AN INFERIOR PRODUCT"!!! And you must deal with super markets where everything is injected or they rub the fish with a light coating of oil to fool the public!!!!

Back to the subject!!! Farmed raised fish "S--KS"!!!! and carries many pollutents!!!!!

[Fly Rod]

zacs!!!!

One other answer to one of your questions

No I don't take antibiotics not even an aspirin!!!!! Not a pillhead!!!! No wacky tabaky!!!! Don't snort that white stuff !!!! No crack!!!!!!

How about you??????