Can you imagine a worse reason to start a civil war?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Favors are a funny thing, once you have a few foreign powers doing you favors, they are going to request you do the same. Most likely those requests will not be in plain sight or public, but could very well impact our national security.
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"Favors" requested through MLAT's are not personal political favors. Wikipedia: "A mutual legal assistance treaty (MLAT) is an agreement between two or more countries for the purpose of gathering and exchanging information in an effort to enforce public or criminal laws . . . for requesting and obtaining evidence for criminal investigations and prosecutions."

Partners in MLAT are obligated to provide assistance in those specific matters. It's not a scratch my back I'll scratch yours situation. It's a treaty obligation.

[Got Stripers]

Spin it however you like, he was asking for help digging up dirt on his 2020 opponent, not buying into your rational. So was his request China do the same dirty work legit too, you guys crack me up, I think some of you got hit in the head while circling the wagons.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Spin it however you like, he was asking for help digging up dirt on his 2020 opponent, not buying into your rational. So was his request China do the same dirty work legit too, you guys crack me up, I think some of you got hit in the head while circling the wagons.
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imagine how much money hunter biden and kerry's step son will make if biden wins in 2020

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Spin it however you like, he was asking for help digging up dirt on his 2020 opponent, not buying into your rational. So was his request China do the same dirty work legit too, you guys crack me up, I think some of you got hit in the head while circling the wagons.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

MLAT'S are not spin. They are fact. I'm not selling you anything. I am stating fact. You can google it. And the US has a similar agreement with China, an MLAA (Mutual Legal Assistance Agreement).

Your framing it as "dirty work" or "dirt" is the spin here. By your spin, Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) should be retitled Mutual Dirt Assitance Treaty, and Mutual Legal Assistance Agreement retitled Mutual Dirt Assistance Agreement.

These Treaties and Agreements are not for digging up dirt. They are obligatory co-operations to assist on various criminal and legal matters in which a Government or private or political entity in that country may have participated or have information on. Digging up any other "dirt" cannot be done via these treaties.

[scottw]

and he keeps ignoring the fact that Zelensky stated he felt no pressure as it relates to United States aid to Ukraine.

but goat strippers, an anonymous whistleblower with third hand information and a bunch or rabid "impeach the mothe*&^*&*r" democrats say he did....soooooo

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

and he keeps ignoring the fact that Zelensky stated he felt no pressure as it relates to United States aid to Ukraine.

Ha did you watch the video? You're going to throw the country giving you weapons to stay alive under the bus?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Spin it however you like, he was asking for help digging up dirt on his 2020 opponent, not buying into your rational. So was his request China do the same dirty work legit too, you guys crack me up, I think some of you got hit in the head while circling the wagons.
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And the 3 democrat senators also asked Ukraine to investigate political adversaries. Those two things can both b acceptable, or they can both be unethical. If you say one is Ok and one is not, then this discussion is political rather than principled.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

And the 3 democrat senators also asked Ukraine to investigate political adversaries. .

Ukraine was the democrats little play land for dirty dealing

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

Ukraine was the democrats little play land for dirty dealing

Reported tody that Hunter may have pocketed multiple millions. Nothing to see there, because getting kicked out of the army for snorting cocaine, obviously prepares you to help run a Ukramian energy conglomerate. And just a coincidence that his dad was (1) VP and (2) Obama's point man on Ukraine.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Reported tody that Hunter may have pocketed multiple millions. Nothing to see there, because getting kicked out of the army for snorting cocaine, obviously prepares you to help run a Ukramian energy conglomerate. And just a coincidence that his dad was (1) VP and (2) Obama's point man on Ukraine.

What did he do wrong Jim?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

What did he do wrong Jim?
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what did who do wrong, hunter? he got rich
off his dads influence. and you tolerate that. amazing.
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[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

what did who do wrong, hunter? he got rich
off his dads influence. and you tolerate that. amazing.
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What are Trump’s kids currently doing? You think Dad’s position and influence help Ivanka’s recent Chinese trademarks?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

What are Trump’s kids currently doing? You think Dad’s position and influence help Ivanka’s recent Chinese trademarks?
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You're one of the few Progressive leaning guys on this forum for whom I have some basic respect when it comes to politics. So, if you believe that the Chinese gvt. is trying to help the Trumps in any way, that is a hopeful sign that the Chinese may actually want to come to some mutually beneficial trade agreement with Trump . . .

Nah . . . I don't think Xi Jinping wants to give Trump political victories. As long as Trump is having trouble getting our government bureaucracy solidly behind his efforts, as long as the establishment powers here are against Trump, Xi would prefer to wait for Trump to be ousted in the next election or be impeached. Then trade negotiations and tariffs will go away and the previous status quo that enabled china to become an economic power at our expense--wealthy enough to sucker the needy third world to become dependent on China through his Belt and Road Initiative. And so become the dominant world power.

On the other hand, if this country and its political parties supported Trump, reassuring his re-election, then China might find it too debilitating to continue the tariff war with Trump. And some temporary kind of more equitable reciprocity might be achieved. Until the Dems got control back.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What did Rudy tell Zelensky's representative?

Don't know what he was saying. He was, for quite some time, asking, investigating. Here is some evidence he came up with:



and:

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

What are Trump’s kids currently doing? You think Dad’s position and influence help Ivanka’s recent Chinese trademarks?
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Did Trump threaten China to get her the trademarks? Ivanka already owned businesses making all kinds of crap. What experience did Hunter have in Ukranian energy?

I agree the Trump family should have divested all that nonsense.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

MLAT'S are not spin. They are fact. I'm not selling you anything. I am stating fact. You can google it. And the US has a similar agreement with China, an MLAA (Mutual Legal Assistance Agreement).

Your framing it as "dirty work" or "dirt" is the spin here. By your spin, Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) should be retitled Mutual Dirt Assitance Treaty, and Mutual Legal Assistance Agreement retitled Mutual Dirt Assistance Agreement.

These Treaties and Agreements are not for digging up dirt. They are obligatory co-operations to assist on various criminal and legal matters in which a Government or private or political entity in that country may have participated or have information on. Digging up any other "dirt" cannot be done via these treaties.

OMG that’s rich, do you really think Trump even is aware those treaties exist, the man is clueless and doesn’t listen to a single advisor who might know. Even on the very and I repeat very remote possibility he was aware, it’s a hey wink, wink, nod, nod, I have a pressing investigation that really has never been resolved haha, spin away.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

OMG that’s rich, do you really think Trump even is aware those treaties exist, the man is clueless and doesn’t listen to a single advisor who might know. Even on the very and I repeat very remote possibility he was aware, it’s a hey wink, wink, nod, nod, I have a pressing investigation that really has never been resolved haha, spin away.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You say here he's clueless. others here say he has the cunning of a mafia don to deliver such an ominous, veiled threat to Ukraine.

Which is it? Is he Don Corleone, or Fredo? You guys want him to be both, he can't be both.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You say here he's clueless. others here say he has the cunning of a mafia don to deliver such an ominous, veiled threat to Ukraine.

Which is it? Is he Don Corleone, or Fredo? You guys want him to be both, he can't be both.

You really with a straight face can say you are confident Trump has a wealth of political knowledge, especially when it comes to past treaties and agreements, I’d suggest you’d be lying if you tried. I never would suggest he is actually cunning enough to pull this madness together as some diabolical plot, he just flys by the seat of his pants, is raw no filter BS non stop. Why do you think the very best people he had to begin with are long gone?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

OMG that’s rich, do you really think Trump even is aware those treaties exist, the man is clueless and doesn’t listen to a single advisor who might know. Even on the very and I repeat very remote possibility he was aware, it’s a hey wink, wink, nod, nod, I have a pressing investigation that really has never been resolved haha, spin away.

You seem to be under the impression that you've said something of substance here. Your opinion about what Trump thinks or knows or is remotely aware of has no substantial importance in this matter. All you've done here is evade the fact that what Trump requested was absolutely legitimate, and replaced that legitimacy with your sarcastic and uninformed opinion. And that is all you could do, in order to maintain some fictitious level of credibility for your previous ignorant comments and opinions.

You not only proclaim that Trump is totally clueless, but must think that the Secretary of State, Trump's lawyers, the State Dept., all Trump advisors, are also clueless. It is their business to know something as basic as to what is legal to do when asking for foreign assistance on ANY matter. These treaties are not some dusty old files hidden in some remote never looked at file. They are paid attention to on a continuing basis when any political or legal matter between countries must be addressed.

When the media sources that you, or the public in general, doesn't tell you what you don't know, you inherently assume there is nothing to know. However, those who expand the variety of media sources are more likely to be informed about things than those who are stuck on their one-sided sources which would rather you didn't know everything you need to know to fully understand an issue. This issue of treaties that allow what Trump asked is probably not discussed by the sources that you get your info from because they would rather that you didn't know and so keep you stuck on the notion that it is illegal or unconstitutional to ask foreign powers to "dig up dirt" on their opponents. That is the preferred level of discussion that gives some appearance of a reason for impeachment.

However, other more honest media have informed those of us who listen to them about the treaties and a great deal of other things that cast a whole different light on the issue.

So it is not that Trump is clueless. It is that you are. Not through any fault of your own, except that your sources are not helping you out.

Your claim that Trump "doesn’t listen to a single advisor who might know" is unsubstantiated nonsense. He has always surrounded himself with "experts" even in his business ventures. He sometimes disagrees with some of them, but he hears them all out. Other sources would have helped you to know some things about Trump that you don't, but your sources would rather that you believe he is all the various boogymen that they've planted in your head.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

what did who do wrong, hunter? he got rich
off his dads influence. and you tolerate that. amazing.
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Are you speaking about Trump
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You seem to be under the impression that you've said something of substance here. Your opinion about what Trump thinks or knows or is remotely aware of has no substantial importance in this matter. All you've done here is evade the fact that what Trump requested was absolutely legitimate, and replaced that legitimacy with your sarcastic and uninformed opinion. And that is all you could do, in order to maintain some fictitious level of credibility for your previous ignorant comments and opinions.

You not only proclaim that Trump is totally clueless, but must think that the Secretary of State, Trump's lawyers, the State Dept., all Trump advisors, are also clueless. It is their business to know something as basic as to what is legal to do when asking for foreign assistance on ANY matter. These treaties are not some dusty old files hidden in some remote never looked at file. They are paid attention to on a continuing basis when any political or legal matter between countries must be addressed.

When the media sources that you, or the public in general, doesn't tell you what you don't know, you inherently assume there is nothing to know. However, those who expand the variety of media sources are more likely to be informed about things than those who are stuck on their one-sided sources which would rather you didn't know everything you need to know to fully understand an issue. This issue of treaties that allow what Trump asked is probably not discussed by the sources that you get your info from because they would rather that you didn't know and so keep you stuck on the notion that it is illegal or unconstitutional to ask foreign powers to "dig up dirt" on their opponents. That is the preferred level of discussion that gives some appearance of a reason for impeachment.

However, other more honest media have informed those of us who listen to them about the treaties and a great deal of other things that cast a whole different light on the issue.

So it is not that Trump is clueless. It is that you are. Not through any fault of your own, except that your sources are not helping you out.

Your claim that Trump "doesn’t listen to a single advisor who might know" is unsubstantiated nonsense. He has always surrounded himself with "experts" even in his business ventures. He sometimes disagrees with some of them, but he hears them all out. Other sources would have helped you to know some things about Trump that you don't, but your sources would rather that you believe he is all the various boogymen that they've planted in your head.

When you’re a Stable Genius you don’t have to worry about that stuff and those guys don’t know how it really works
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

and he keeps ignoring the fact that Zelensky stated he felt no pressure as it relates to United States aid to Ukraine.

but goat strippers, an anonymous whistleblower with third hand information and a bunch or rabid "impeach the mothe*&^*&*r" democrats say he did....soooooo

And in the next days after Trump f’d him and he had no chance what happened in Ukraine
Putin’s a winner
Trump is a #^&#^&#^&#^&ing traitor
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[Pete F.]

Asking a notoriously totalitarian regime that's in the middle of a mass incarceration of religious and ethnic minorities to "investigate" your political rival?

Very presidential, very conservative, so patriotic.
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[Pete F.]

They must have been talking about ordering lunch and everyone does that

Taylor: Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?
Sondland: Call me
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

What are Trump’s kids currently doing? You think Dad’s position and influence help Ivanka’s recent Chinese trademarks?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

as spence would say, I think you need to do a little homework....NRO has a great Hunter Biden timeline...it's pretty remarkable and troubling

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You say here he's clueless. others here say he has the cunning of a mafia don to deliver such an ominous, veiled threat to Ukraine.

Which is it? Is he Don Corleone, or Fredo? You guys want him to be both, he can't be both.

they are just screaming loons...mad about everything...there's not much thinking involved

as bad a trump can be at times, he's still no where near as loathsome as the democrat cast of characters nipping his heels soooo....

Kavanaugh all over again...this is going to be fun!


"The whistleblower who filed a complaint against President Trump that now forms the center of an impeachment inquiry against him is a registered Democrat, according to a report from CNN."

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You really with a straight face can say you are confident Trump has a wealth of political knowledge, especially when it comes to past treaties and agreements, I’d suggest you’d be lying if you tried. I never would suggest he is actually cunning enough to pull this madness together as some diabolical plot, he just flys by the seat of his pants, is raw no filter BS non stop. Why do you think the very best people he had to begin with are long gone?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

he has very little political experience. 98% of the time, i’m totally fine with that. despite his lack of experience, he opened up a major can of whoop ass on his opponent who has eons of political experience, so in my opinion, political experience is vastly overrated.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Asking a notoriously totalitarian regime that's in the middle of a mass incarceration of religious and ethnic minorities to "investigate" your political rival?

Very presidential, very conservative, so patriotic.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

three senate democrats did the same exact thing, and you didn’t whine about it. which necessarily means that your outrage when trump did it, is selective and politically motivated, which necessarily means it’s also fake.

you’re embarrassing yourself. post some more heavily edited articles with everything deleted that helps trumps case.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

they are just screaming loons...mad about everything...there's not much thinking involved

as bad a trump can be at times, he's still no where near as loathsome as the democrat cast of characters nipping his heels soooo....

Kavanaugh all over again...this is going to be fun!


"The whistleblower who filed a complaint against President Trump that now forms the center of an impeachment inquiry against him is a registered Democrat, according to a report from CNN."

nailed it. they say he’s threatening our democracy? it’s the democrats who use superdelegates in their primaries to ignore the will of the voters, its the democrats who are explicitly threatening to restructure the supreme court unless they rule in a way liberals find more agreeable ( so much for separation of powers), its the democrats who dedicated themselves to reversing the 2016 election from the moment that disgusting witch conceded, it’s democrats who constantly silence conservatives for having the temerity to attempt to speak.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’re embarrassing yourself.

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peto is determined