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| The Scuppers This is a new forum for the not necessarily fishing related topics... |
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08-01-2006, 12:40 PM
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#61
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Homerun04
Okay Spence (Mr. Consultant)....you tell us then....what was the root cause of Jesus' death then...? The Romans? I don't think so....  |
The root cause was Satan as I indicated above.
Judas didn't betray Jesus because he was Jewish, it's because he was guided by evil...the Bible spells this out pretty clearly.
The Jewish leadership that was threatened by Jesus was afraid of his popularity...it was about power, and more Satan.
Granted, the entire thing from birth on up was rigged...which is why I really don't understand all this emotion for the Passion.
-spence |
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08-01-2006, 12:41 PM
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#62
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sick of bluefish
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
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Actually, isnt the root casue of Jesus' death, God? Isnt that the fufillment of God's plan? Without Jesus's death, whats the point? you'd have just another prophet. Christianity, as I understand it believes Jesus died for there sins, no death, no Christianity.
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08-01-2006, 12:47 PM
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#63
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RIJIMMY
Actually, isnt the root casue of Jesus' death, God? Isnt that the fufillment of God's plan? Without Jesus's death, whats the point? you'd have just another prophet. Christianity, as I understand it believes Jesus died for there sins, no death, no Christianity.
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Good point...
But I think God sent Jesus to earth on the assumption that Satan would cause his betrayal.
Given that he or she is omnipotent, they might have been fairly certain of this...but still it was a way to mitigate sin 
-spence |
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08-01-2006, 12:50 PM
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#64
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 3,781
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Who is the Angel of Light and who do many diverse peoples believe rules now?
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Good health and family
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08-01-2006, 12:52 PM
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#65
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skitterpop
Who is the Angel of Light and who do many diverse peoples believe rules now?
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Smells like a #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney tangent 
-spence |
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08-01-2006, 12:54 PM
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#66
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Which Way Did They Go
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Blackstone, MA
Posts: 1,147
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Quote:
The root cause was Satan as I indicated above.
Judas didn't betray Jesus because he was Jewish, it's because he was guided by evil...the Bible spells this out pretty clearly.
The Jewish leadership that was threatened by Jesus was afraid of his popularity...it was about power, and more Satan.
Granted, the entire thing from birth on up was rigged...which is why I really don't understand all this emotion for the Passion.
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True....it was rigged from the very beginning, as it was supposed to be.....Jesus was said to have come here for a very specific pre-determined (your term "rigged") purpose....hence the term "prophecies"......but that DOES NOT leave people with no accountability for their actions....you seem to be saying that the devil made the Jews and Romans do it, so therefore they are not to be held accountable....I believe God gave us free-will to test how strong we would hold up against the temptations of Satan....and to then hold us accountable for our actions. Judas didn't have to betray Jesus no matter how tempted he was to do it. That was a choice.
Please don't say that Satan is the root cause of Jesus' death, because that makes no sense to me.....why would Satan want Jesus dead, when it was Jesus' death and resurrection that would open up the doors of eternal life for all mankind.....Jesus' death is the EXACT opposite of what Satan would have wanted IMO. People wanted Jesus dead, not Satan. |
"You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give"
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08-01-2006, 12:57 PM
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#67
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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But why did "people" want Jesus dead?
-spence
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08-01-2006, 12:59 PM
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#68
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Homerun04
Jesus' death is the EXACT opposite of what Satan would have wanted IMO. People wanted Jesus dead, not Satan.
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I don't think Satan thinks this stuff through...he's a hell raiser (pun intended) simply out to create chaos.
From what I hear he's a lot like Clammer 
-spence |
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08-01-2006, 01:08 PM
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#69
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Which Way Did They Go
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Blackstone, MA
Posts: 1,147
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Quote:
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From what I hear he's a lot like Clammer
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Now THAT is something we can agree upon......  |
"You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give"
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08-01-2006, 01:34 PM
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#70
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sick of bluefish
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
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My Dad always told me, never discuss religion and politics,,,,,now here they are in the same thread!
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08-01-2006, 02:20 PM
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 269
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*Big Claps*
Wow, this is thread is becoming really interesting and fun to read. What a great way to pass through work... So the arguements are here are as, the Jews were possessed by Satan therefore sending Jesus back home. So if we're not to blame the Jews then blame Satan because it is for he who possessed them to sin.
Let me try to apply this to politics...
Let's say terrorists in general are possessed by the Satan so when they terrorize, then they aren't to blame because it is for Satan who possessed them. The same can be applied to psychotic murderers I guess...
eyh, what a Load of b#ll!
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fish when you can is the way I do it man
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08-01-2006, 02:31 PM
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#72
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sick of bluefish
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
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so back to the original point....
If I am tried in court by a jury and sentenced to death, who "killed" me? The jurors?
I would say the state executed me. I believe the same applies to Jesus. His peers (Jews) called for his execution, however the Roman government carried it out. Thus, they killed him.
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08-01-2006, 02:44 PM
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#73
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by stormfish
Let me try to apply this to politics...
Let's say terrorists in general are possessed by the Satan so when they terrorize, then they aren't to blame because it is for Satan who possessed them. The same can be applied to psychotic murderers I guess...
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No, there's a big difference...
The root cause of Jesus' death is part of an allegory meant to provide a moral lesson. Note: I don't take a literal interpretation of the Bible.
And our legal system is heavily influenced by elements of Biblical inspired morality that's detached from the dogma of the Bible.
This isn't to argue moral relativisim, but I can't compare spiritual teaching with reality in a literal sense.
-spence |
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08-01-2006, 02:52 PM
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#74
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 269
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I know spence... I was being outta the element as usual. So, bottomline the Romans are responsible for the killing of Jesus because they carried it out according to Jimmy. But the Jews helped the Romans make the decision because they fear Jesus' power, so they must be made accountable right? I'll give a better example...
Hypothetically, a wife conspiracize with her boyfriend to wack her husband because she fear the consequence of the revelation of her affair. She is to blame to right? If so, then the same can be said for the Jews... (According to the Bible)
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fish when you can is the way I do it man
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08-01-2006, 02:59 PM
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by stormfish
Hypothetically, a wife conspiracize with her boyfriend to wack her husband because she fear the consequence of the revelation of her affair. She is to blame to right? If so, then the same can be said for the Jews... (According to the Bible)
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It depends on your "moral reference frame" to be honest.
Under Roman law I'd wager they had the legal and moral authority to kill just about anyone if the powers that be saw fit.
In the end, they made the decision that killing Jesus was better than the potential social unrest he potentially would deliver if alive. This was their decision.
Certianly Jewish teaching would have forbid murder I'd think, but they seem to have found a loophole in the system.
You could draw a loose parallel to capitol punishment today. As a group we've decided that some are a such a threat to society they must be put to death...yet is there guilt among the jury?
I'd think the answer depends on the person.
-spence |
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08-01-2006, 03:03 PM
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#76
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sick of bluefish
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
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Certianly Jewish teaching would have forbid murder I'd think
And God said to Abraham, take thy only son.....
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08-01-2006, 03:06 PM
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 269
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Loopholes eh? As in a way for eating pork, compared to their Muslim neighbors who don't. As long as you bleed it, I guess it's fine! Jewish people are clever aren't they?
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fish when you can is the way I do it man
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08-01-2006, 03:07 PM
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RIJIMMY
And God said to Abraham, take thy only son.....
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Well, the Bible is full of deeply nuanced contradictions...hence why I don't agree with a literal interpretation.
According to the Bible we should stone gays and people who work on Sunday too
-spence |
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08-01-2006, 03:10 PM
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#79
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Retired Surfer
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sunset Grill
Posts: 9,511
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Who is the Angel of Light?
Edison dude, Edison. |
Swimmer a.k.a. YO YO MA
Serial Mailbox Killer/Seal Fisherman
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08-01-2006, 03:10 PM
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by stormfish
Loopholes eh? As in a way for eating pork, compared to their Muslim neighbors who don't. As long as you bleed it, I guess it's fine! Jewish people are clever aren't they?
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Not all Jews follow tradition, just like most Muslims don't live under Sharia Law.
As for your clever comment, I'd advise not posting drunk...especially at 2:30am  
-spence |
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08-01-2006, 03:12 PM
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#81
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 269
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RIJIMMY
And God said to Abraham, take thy only son.....
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It would suck if Abraham was bi-polar.  |
fish when you can is the way I do it man
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08-01-2006, 03:15 PM
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#82
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by stormfish
It would suck if Abraham was bi-polar. |
It would really suck if GOD were bi-polar!
-spence |
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08-01-2006, 04:05 PM
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#83
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Which Way Did They Go
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Blackstone, MA
Posts: 1,147
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Quote:
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According to the Bible we should stone gays and people who work on Sunday too
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We should only stone bosses who make people work on Sundays.... |
"You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give"
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08-02-2006, 08:42 AM
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#84
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 269
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Efficient?
According to : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14128276/page/2/
'At least 542 Lebanese have been killed since the offensive began, including 468 civilians and 28 Lebanese soldiers and at least 46 Hezbollah guerrillas. The health minister says the toll could be as high as 750, including those still buried in rubble or missing. Fifty-four Israelis have died — 36 soldiers as well as 18 civilians killed in Hezbollah rocket attacks.
The United Nations also warned that the longer a spill of 110,000 barrels of oil is not cleaned up from Lebanon’s coast, the more severe the environmental impact will be. The oil spilled two weeks ago after Israeli warplanes hit a coastal power plant.' |
fish when you can is the way I do it man
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08-02-2006, 08:56 AM
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 3,781
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My great aunt who was an educator taught me not to believe everything you read and to be wary of that which you do believe  |
Good health and family
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08-02-2006, 12:03 PM
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#86
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Newtown, CT
Posts: 5,659
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Look at it this way, if Hezbolla layed down their arms tomorrow, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their arms there would be another holocost. That pretty much sums it up for me.
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08-02-2006, 01:44 PM
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#87
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MakoMike
Look at it this way, if Hezbolla layed down their arms tomorrow, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their arms there would be another holocost. That pretty much sums it up for me.
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Ahhh, that seems to be the Newt Gingrich line that's been floating around the net...
But it's nothing more than self serving rhetoric. The world isn't black and white...
-spence |
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08-02-2006, 03:19 PM
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 269
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MakoMike
Look at it this way, if Hezbolla layed down their arms tomorrow, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their arms there would be another holocost. That pretty much sums it up for me.
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I was thinking of something very simular MM. But I suggested Isreal relocating to the US-Mexican Border. If that be the case then our borders would be safe from illegal Immigrants. |
fish when you can is the way I do it man
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08-02-2006, 06:12 PM
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#89
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Newtown, CT
Posts: 5,659
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spence
Ahhh, that seems to be the Newt Gingrich line that's been floating around the net...
But it's nothing more than self serving rhetoric. The world isn't black and white...
-spence
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Are you saying that its not true? |
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08-02-2006, 10:02 PM
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#90
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MakoMike
Are you saying that its not true?
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Yes, I think it's complete BS intended to present a black or white option...
-spence |
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