Can you hear me now?

[justplugit]

I heard on the news today there were 1.2 million peaceful demonstrators on Saturday voicing their opposition to to Big Gov. HC, and Cap+Trade.

Washington shouldn't pay attention though, they were just a bunch of rebel rousing Astro Turfs.

[Raven]

i heard that number was over stated by 900,000 people

[JohnR]

I hear the number was more like 600,000.

Interesting though, a large group of people demonstrating that you didn't have pick up loads of litter or deal in scuffles.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I hear the number was more like 600,000.

Same. But it would be out of character for something like facts to not get spun by those reporting.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I hear the number was more like 600,000.

Interesting though, a large group of people demonstrating that you didn't have pick up loads of litter or deal in scuffles.

Unless they are all out there protesting in real nasty weather

like quai chang kane standing outside the monastery waiting to be let in.... it won't continue to get press coverage.

i loved the sign with nancy pelosi on it with the Pinocchio Nose

an umbrella company with a tea party logo on the top could make a small fortune if they had any brains

BAD CHANGE

[buckman]

I just heard it from you guys.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Same. But it would be out of character for something like facts to not get spun by those reporting.

Absolutely, kinda like with HC it's 50 million are without insurance,
or no it's 47 million, no it's 27 million no it's 20 million or is it 5 million?

NYT said the Park Police in Washington didn't count those that were there.

The demonstrators were hoping for 35-50,000 in Washington but the Fire Dept. counted and estimated 75,000.

BTW- JR -they were brought up in a time when people looked down
on "Litter Bugs".

[Fishpart]

Interestingly enough 50,000 show up for a Million Man March that gets coverage for weeks and it is still a Million Man March. 100,000 Patriots show up in Washington peacefully protesting policy and it is dismissed as a few thousand and not even covered by the media.....

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Absolutely, kinda like with HC it's 50 million are without insurance,
or no it's 47 million, no it's 27 million no it's 20 million or is it 5 million?

Agreed. The lack of a harder estimated number without HC is ridiculous. I too would like to know who's included in that estimated 20-50 million. A 150% margin of error is less than helpful. (It's like the seal estimates of 5-12 thousand.)

Originally Posted by Fishpart

Interestingly enough 50,000 show up for a Million Man March that gets coverage for weeks and it is still a Million Man March. 100,000 Patriots show up in Washington peacefully protesting policy and it is dismissed as a few thousand and not even covered by the media.....

Or most people see these "tea parties" as a joke and some fad of the Conservatives to rile up the base. I would be willing to bet a minimum of 3/5 people at these things couldn't effectively represent what specific aspects of HC they disagree with and why - outside of regurgitating the talking points of Rush and friends. As fishbones has said in the past, even people that very actively follow the debate have difficulty sorting out what is actually in the bill and what is just propaganda.

As I have been saying consistently, there are major issues with the HC bill but Republicans are allowing the Dems to pass whatever they want because the Conservatives would rather fling sh!t than address the issues like grown ups.

[buckman]

JD, are you insane? Just dismiss 3/5 conservatives because why again? You think their just using talking points? Over 50% disagree with the HC bill. People are willing to give up their time, maybe because they feel the cause is worth the effort.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

JD, are you insane? Just dismiss 3/5 conservatives because why again? You think their just using talking points? Over 50% disagree with the HC bill. People are willing to give up their time, maybe because they feel the cause is worth the effort.

Dismissing 3/5 people that attend those teaparties. As I said, I would bet 3/5 don't have an educated clue.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I would be willing to bet a minimum of 3/5 people at these things couldn't effectively represent what specific aspects of HC they disagree with and why

JD, your selling the American people short.

I would say that might have been true 3 months ago, but after seeing all these take overs ,
spending programs and HC trying to be pushed on them, the American people have taken notice and are fast learners.
Like they say:
"Ya can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time."

I would bet however ,when it comes to Obama and Congress 3/5 don't know all that's in, or could fully explain what's in the HC proposals.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

JD, your selling the American people short.

I would say that might have been true 3 months ago, but after seeing all these take overs ,
spending programs and HC trying to be pushed on them, the American people have taken notice and are fast learners.
Like they say:
"Ya can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time." I would bet however ,when it comes to Obama and Congress 3/5 don't know all that's in, or could fully explain what's in the HC proposals.

As many here know, I have very little faith in the Average American. People that state they don't have time to fully evaluate the issues before voting for president, people that simply vote by party, people that don't even know what exactly they're voting for.
Working very intimately with people from all walks of life for the last 15 years in a significant variety of fields and jobs as taught me one thing: the average person is an idiot.

If you want to contest it, just go for a 10 minute drive, or sit at the RMV for 30 minutes, fly, go to a high-end retail outlet or simply go order some coffee. When it comes to encounters with "the average American", more people are completely out of their minds than not.

Call me a cynic, but work in Emergency Medicine for over 6 years, and you'll see.

If the people drafting the bill, championing for it or petitioning against it are unsure what is actually in the bill, how can your average American know?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

As I have been saying consistently, there are major issues with the HC bill but Republicans are allowing the Dems to pass whatever they want because the Conservatives would rather fling sh!t than address the issues like grown ups.

Perhaps you have not noticed that the Republicans have proposed alternative ideas. (Which might be due to lack of media coverage.) Tort reform certainly has been a "conservative" idea. But even if, as you say, the "Conservatives" would rather fling feces, wouldn't it be more to the point to criticize the Dems for passing "whatever they want" rather than rebuking the Repubs for "allowing" them to do it?

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

As many here know, I have very little faith in the Average American. People that state they don't have time to fully evaluate the issues before voting for president, people that simply vote by party, people that don't even know what exactly they're voting for.
Working very intimately with people from all walks of life for the last 15 years in a significant variety of fields and jobs as taught me one thing: the average person is an idiot.

If you want to contest it, just go for a 10 minute drive, or sit at the RMV for 30 minutes, fly, go to a high-end retail outlet or simply go order some coffee. When it comes to encounters with "the average American", more people are completely out of their minds than not.

Call me a cynic, but work in Emergency Medicine for over 6 years, and you'll see.

If the people drafting the bill, championing for it or petitioning against it are unsure what is actually in the bill, how can your average American know?

Must suck going through life always being the smartest guy in the room. How dare the common man delay your license renewal... board the same plane... or slow your morning coffee stop? I can only imagine the cross you bear wading through the idiots every day.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

As many here know, I have very little faith in the Average American. People that state they don't have time to fully evaluate the issues before voting for president, people that simply vote by party, people that don't even know what exactly they're voting for.
Working very intimately with people from all walks of life for the last 15 years in a significant variety of fields and jobs as taught me one thing: the average person is an idiot.

If you want to contest it, just go for a 10 minute drive, or sit at the RMV for 30 minutes, fly, go to a high-end retail outlet or simply go order some coffee. When it comes to encounters with "the average American", more people are completely out of their minds than not.

Call me a cynic, but work in Emergency Medicine for over 6 years, and you'll see.

If the people drafting the bill, championing for it or petitioning against it are unsure what is actually in the bill, how can your average American know?

You have seen the world beyond the average American, learned more and know more.
You have become liberal elite. Congrats

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by detbuch

wouldn't it be more to the point to criticize the Dems for passing "whatever they want" rather than rebuking the Repubs for "allowing" them to do it?

I do. Which is worse, the animals who run rampant or those that allow them. The Repubs are allowing unbuffered legislation to be drafted by spinning the contents of the bill in an effort to tarnish the Dems, as opposed to educating the public (without political, polar bias).

I agree with some of the Repub position, but I think their tactics as of late are allowing the Dems demonize them.

[JohnR]

JohnnyD - I partially agree with you which is why we on slightly different sides of the center. Part of the problem is that in addition to a large segment of the populace not knowing what the issues are is electing a large segment of our representation that could give a rat's behind on the issues are

Another reason I'm a centrist - both party's suck.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Bronko

Must suck going through life always being the smartest guy in the room. How dare the common man delay your license renewal... board the same plane... or slow your morning coffee stop? I can only imagine the cross you bear wading through the idiots every day.

It's terrible.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Another reason I'm a centrist - both party's suck.

Couldn't agree more. The worst part about the election process is trying to choose the "least worst candidate" for a given position.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I do. Which is worse, the animals who run rampant or those that allow them. The Repubs are allowing unbuffered legislation to be drafted by spinning the contents of the bill in an effort to tarnish the Dems, as opposed to educating the public (without political, polar bias).

The Republicans have been proposing health insurance reforms and proposals for some time, well before this current debate. For whatever reason, their ideas get no serious consideration, no traction. You may blame them for not being aggressive enough, for considering poll numbers, for being cowards afraid of losing the next Senate or House seat, but don't blame them for not proposing buffers. And their proposals were not meant to tarnish but to implement.

I agree with some of the Repub position, but I think their tactics as of late are allowing the Dems demonize them.

The Dems don't need the Repubs permission to demonize them. They are experts and have a long standing tradition of success in doing so.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Call me a cynic, but work in Emergency Medicine for over 6 years, and you'll see.

First JD, let me thank you for your EMT work in the inner city. Takes a special
kind of person to do that work under those conditions.
Having worked in the inner city for 32 years, i understand your
frustrations.

Your ideas and feelings of the inner city were formed from your experience,
and therefore wisdom to know how many of these give away programs
are useless in helping the people, if I've read some of your posts correctly.

The same with the American people, especially the ones that have been around for 40 or more years, see the failure of the politicians,
and their government nanny programs, and how they have put us in debt.
From that experience they have formed the wisdom to know these programs are stop gap measures and are not permanent solutions.

They may not know every nuance of the bills, but their experience and wisdom,
like yours, says enough is enough,they don't work.

We have all these so called intelligent libertine thinkers and think tanks working on these programs with very little experience in the real world outside of Washington, and therefore not the wisdom to come up with permanent solutions.


When it comes to people in general, it's more important to me that they have
character and wisdom than what degree they hold, or how smart they are or
aren't. A lot of good solid people in this country and they have taught me a lot.

[scottw]

I heard Charlie Gibson, a "BIG THREE" anchor say, when asked about the Acorn tapes and scandal comment this morning, "I haven't heard anything about that"....tapes now from Baltimore, DC, NYC and LA that are revolting, also heard George Stephanopolus with a host recently who read to him quotes from Van Jones, Holdren and a number of other Obama appointees state, " I've never heard any of this"....the mainstream media is complicit in protecting and promoting Obama at all costs and in doing so are a danger to this nation...are these the really smart and informed individuals that JD is referring to?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

First JD, let me thank you for your EMT work in the inner city. Takes a special
kind of person to do that work under those conditions.
Having worked in the inner city for 32 years, i understand your
frustrations.

I would never be one to call myself wise. There are many with decades more wisdom than I will ever have. I do greatly appreciate your words though.

Sometimes (or quite often rather) the work makes you quite jaded. Working unprotected, one-on-one with people in the streets of Hartford provided me a lot of insight into another world I never would have seen otherwise, along with experiences I never would have had (and many I wish I had never had - assaulted by a crackhead patient for one, and 100 feet from a gang shootout as another).

I have another job now, but keep my medical credentials current. Not only as a just in case, but also because I overall enjoyed the work even with the negatives.

Don't thank me, as I am not worthy of it. Thank those like Swimmer and the other LEOs on the site along with the Firefighters that work everyday to keep us safer than we could ever be without them.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I would never be one to call myself wise. There are many with decades more wisdom than I will ever have. I do greatly appreciate your words though.

Sometimes (or quite often rather) the work makes you quite jaded. Working unprotected, one-on-one with people in the streets of Hartford provided me a lot of insight into another world I never would have seen otherwise, along with experiences I never would have had.

Don't sell yourself short JD, your experience has helped to make you wise
just as the American peoples experience with failed programs and high
taxes over time, have made many wise too.

At the present, imho, Washinton is lacking both experience and wisdom.

Oh and BTW, the fact you acknowledge hat others have more wisdom than you is wise in itself.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Oh and BTW, the fact you acknowledge hat others have more wisdom than you is wise in itself.

It's called " backpedaling"

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

It's called " backpedaling"

Haha... I wish I knew how to use smilies with my cell phone.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Haha... I wish I knew how to use smilies with my cell phone.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Not meant to be derogatory, JD, just part of the process.
Something like when a person becomes humble, they realize that as much as they think they know,
there is so much more that they don't, and can see the intelligence of others.