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Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating Build Stuff: Custom Plug & Lure Building, Rod Building Rod Building

Rod Building So, you've landed a nice fish on a plug you made, eh? Now, the next step, building your own RODS!

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Old 02-04-2010, 09:41 AM   #1
Crafty Angler
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Mike P - Can You Render An Opinion On A Lami S-Glass Rod?

Mike, since it seems we're both fans of the same rod and it's a res judicata, what blank would you recommend to base a replacement on for the old school Lami S-glass eeling rod I broke season before last?

My old favorite was a 132 3M cut down to 10'6" - I spent some time on the Google last night and reread a few of your archived posts - including an oldie from WMI in 2000 - on S glass blanks

Bottom line is, would you recommend a 132 3M cut back or just go with a 121 3M as is?

I did pick up a pre-owned 108 3M in beautiful shape yesterday wrapped by CMS ......and while I'm looking forward to using it, it made me want to have another 10 to 10'6" eeling rod wrapped for this year while I'm still young enough (barely) to enjoy it

I found an old school 11' S glass in great shape last year but it's just overkill for the spots I fish most often

What do you think?

"There is no royal road to this heavy surf-fishing. With all the appliances for comfort experience can suggest, there is a certain amount of hard work to be done and exposure to be bourne as a part of the price of success." From "Striped Bass," Scribner's Magazine, 1881.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:09 AM   #2
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Also meant to add if any builders out there have an opinion, please feel free to weigh in

Thanks in advance...

"There is no royal road to this heavy surf-fishing. With all the appliances for comfort experience can suggest, there is a certain amount of hard work to be done and exposure to be bourne as a part of the price of success." From "Striped Bass," Scribner's Magazine, 1881.
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:10 AM   #3
JohnR
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I've been debating (for years) a glass eeling rod myself...

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Old 02-05-2010, 09:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
I've been debating (for years) a glass eeling rod myself...
Once I figure out which blank to have it wrapped on, you can try mine, John - the only problem may be taking the Long Walk as opposed to the Short one to fully appreciate it...

I'll quote Mike (the Sultan of S-Glass...) himself from his 2005 post here:

"Comfortable casting range starts around 2 oz. This is a slow-loading fiberglass rod that's perfect for slinging big eels, as the slow load keeps you from tearing eels loose if you have to drive your cast...Fantastic for the biggest plugs, and you can whip a fish on this rod faster than the guys around you would ever believe. ... Being fiberglass, it stands up well to rocks and you can lean into fish to get them away from the junk. If I could only have one rod to fish with, this would be it."

Great rod, but fishing glass again may feel a little weird at first. Perfect for big pencils, too, like a Habs 3.5 oz Canal special - when you shake it, the S-Glass vibrates in a parabolic arc and you can't get that parabolic shake with graphite like the GSB's. Just got a 108 3M for rigged Sluggos, smaller pencils and smaller eels - it's big brother is just a great big water/big fish set-up

Just trying to figure out if lopping off that much from a 132 will stiffen it too much

Maybe Saltheart or Seawolf will chime in on it

Last edited by Crafty Angler; 02-05-2010 at 09:21 AM..

"There is no royal road to this heavy surf-fishing. With all the appliances for comfort experience can suggest, there is a certain amount of hard work to be done and exposure to be bourne as a part of the price of success." From "Striped Bass," Scribner's Magazine, 1881.
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:39 AM   #5
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since you asked...

first off, you said "132 3m". no such animal from lami. you probably meant the sb1363m e-glass or ssb1363m s-glass models from lami. their gsb1321m or 1L are in the "132"/11' range if you got confused.

for what it is worth, glass has a limited use today in the surf in my opinion. if you need to custom build a rod for a certain application, such as a large, heavy pluggin' rod, then maybe glass, but glass overall is heavy. after fishing for graphite for so many years, it's hard to go back and their are plenty of options for fit a multitude of purposes. with that said, it's really hard to beat the lami gsb1201m (10') or gsb1321m (11') graphite blanks in general and for eeling rods. they are relatively inexpensive, proven, and pretty durable. both are good up to 4 ounces and 5 if you need to lob a little extra. every customer i've built either of these rods for has been more than happy with their choice. of course, my favorite all around jetty blank is still the glass sb1213m at 10'. glass does rule on a jetty, but under 10'

if you want something a little closer to glass, you could look at the L versions of either blank, but both start to really top off at 3 ounces. another option gaining popularity is the super seeker baby ulua. it's 10', composite s-glass/graphite and bends all the way to the butt w/ a lot of power in the butt. it loads real soft. it's a very popular pencil popper rod. but, this blank can push in price up to that is a lami super surf.

personally, i think the sb1083m is almost useless in the surf, except for throwing small rebel like plugs. i usually make the boat version of this blank into a boat spin rod and cut a lot off the tip. the lami graphite 9' blanks are much better options.
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Old 02-05-2010, 11:22 AM   #6
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Thanks, Dave - then it would have been the 136 my old favorite was based on, but the 121-3M is starting to sound like the blank of choice for me. The super seeker composite sounds interesting but I'm looking for that soft-loading characteristic at a reasonable price-point

Yup, I'm familiar with the GSB's, I've been using a 120-1L locally as my primary stick since '99 and like it a lot but it gets dicey at 3 oz - used a 120 1m this fall, but it's not high on my immediate list right now

I know DZ uses the 1L with the tip slightly trimmed back as an all purpose rod for eels, riggies and plugs and we talked about it again last week - I may try that on my older 120 this season

I'll see what happens with the 108 3M early this spring - worst case scenario, I'll cut 2' off the butt and make it a freshie rod for plastics or 2' off the tip and use it for blackfish off the boat next fall...

Thanks again

"There is no royal road to this heavy surf-fishing. With all the appliances for comfort experience can suggest, there is a certain amount of hard work to be done and exposure to be bourne as a part of the price of success." From "Striped Bass," Scribner's Magazine, 1881.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:49 PM   #7
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just note that the 1213m is a lot stiffer than the 1363m. the 136 has a lower low end and the 121 has a higher high end for weights.

2" off the tip of the sb1083m changes almost nothing.

DZ's 1L has 1", maybe 2" cut off the tip. i measured it when i fixed it a couple years ago.

just a reminder, cutting a lami blank voids the warranty if you ever plan on needing it.

i still think the gsb1201m or gsb1321m is your best bet. the 120M is not that much more money than the glass blank. they handle larger eels, load well and still offer a great plugging rod if you ever plan on doing that with it. talk to "bobcat" this weekend if you go to the show.

i'm not sure if you are fishing braid or mono, but if you are fishing braid the single best piece of advice i can give you on a slow action rod, like the glass ones mentioned, is using fuji's new guide concept. your rod tip won't bounce.
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaWolf View Post
just note that the 1213m is a lot stiffer than the 1363m. the 136 has a lower low end and the 121 has a higher high end for weights.

2" off the tip of the sb1083m changes almost nothing.

DZ's 1L has 1", maybe 2" cut off the tip. i measured it when i fixed it a couple years ago.

just a reminder, cutting a lami blank voids the warranty if you ever plan on needing it.

i still think the gsb1201m or gsb1321m is your best bet. the 120M is not that much more money than the glass blank. they handle larger eels, load well and still offer a great plugging rod if you ever plan on doing that with it. talk to "bobcat" this weekend if you go to the show.

i'm not sure if you are fishing braid or mono, but if you are fishing braid the single best piece of advice i can give you on a slow action rod, like the glass ones mentioned, is using fuji's new guide concept. your rod tip won't bounce.
Thanks again, Dave - didn't realize the difference in the high and low end ratings between the 1213M and the 1363M

I'll look up the bobcat if I can make it to the Edge on Sat.

Oh, on the 108 I was talking about trimming off 2 feet, not 2 inches - actually Russ Bassdozer did an article about cutting a 108 down to 6 1/2 or 7' (cut from the butt) for spooks, topwaters and plastics - although I don't think I'll want to do that to a nicely wrapped rod

I'll probably just make it an anniversary gift for Mrs Crafty when she fishes her 'gummy bears' (shads and plastics)...

And yeah, I'll be using mono on the rod - I guess there still are a few things you can't teach an old dog like me...

Thanks again

Cheers...

"There is no royal road to this heavy surf-fishing. With all the appliances for comfort experience can suggest, there is a certain amount of hard work to be done and exposure to be bourne as a part of the price of success." From "Striped Bass," Scribner's Magazine, 1881.
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Old 02-05-2010, 11:34 PM   #9
Mike P
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If I could get my hands on an old SSB 136 3M, I would take it over a 121 3M. The SSB was my go-to beach spinning rod for a lot of years, from the mid-1980s almost until the turn of the century (remember when that term referred to the changeover from the 19th to the 20th?).

For eels, I would probably take all the trimming from the butt.

But in a perfect world with a bigger budget, I would take an XRA 1205 over any glass rod.

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Old 02-06-2010, 04:47 PM   #10
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I also think graphite is way better. If you get a graphite rod with a slow taper , it will perform like a glass rod but be much lighter.

One big issue I alway see if that people want just a little more range on the lure weights than the blanks offer. This is human nature. You could have a thousand more blank models available and people would still want one that will do 1 oounce more or 1 ounce less than the rod can really do!

Crafty , I would look at the Lami CSB series. Its got several rod that do about what you are describing.

Here a quick explanantion I have posted before on the SOL rodboard but maybe not here that will help in rod selection

The rod modulus is comprised of two parts. The materials modulus of elasticity and the rods cross section modulus called its moment of initia. It can have a crosswise component and a lengthwise component.

The material modulus is often quoted by the manufacturer as a rod attribute like the higher modulus graphite used in the XRA models , its a material property. However , that material modulus can be super high and not effect the rod much or it can be super low and you can still have a very fast action rod. The missing part is the rods modulus caused by its geometry.

In general , if a rod has a big difference between its tip and butt diameter , the rod will have fast action and will stack up quickly as its flexed. The more you flex it , the further down the bend goes but as the bend goes down the rod length the cross sectional modulus gets very high because the diameter increases. That's why it "stacks up".

When you look at the glass rods , you are seeing a big effect of the materials elastic modulus because there is a big difference between the modulus of elasticity in gless and graphite rods. graphite of course being way higher. If you only consider the material , you need to go to the low modulus glass. What you are looking for in the glass rods can be found in the grafite rods by looking for rods with a small change between the tip and butt diameters. Now the other thing that contributes to the sectional modulus is the thickness of the wall of the blank. So in addition to looking for a small taper in the rod , you want to also look for rods with thinner walls and low materials modulus.

A great rod to show the effects when both factors are high is an Allstar 1209. The rod has a big taper and a thick wall. Therefore its a pool cue. A good example of the other extreme is steelhead rods like the GSH Lami series. They have some 11 1/2 feet long but there is very little difference between the tip and but diameter and they bend gradually all the way down their length.

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Old 02-08-2010, 12:45 AM   #11
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Thanks, Saltheart...

I never really knew much about the physics behind the blanks, just which characteristics I liked in certain situations based on personal experience

I looked around on the Lami site and saw the Triflex Surf Series for those CSB blanks - the only 1 piece I saw was a 10' rated at 1-4 if memory serves - composite may be the best of both worlds



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
If I could get my hands on an old SSB 136 3M, I would take it over a 121 3M. The SSB was my go-to beach spinning rod for a lot of years, from the mid-1980s almost until the turn of the century (remember when that term referred to the changeover from the 19th to the 20th?)...

But in a perfect world with a bigger budget, I would take an XRA 1205 over any glass rod.
A friend just PM'd me the other day that he has exactly the 136 3M I was looking for in brandy new shape that he wants to sell since he's thinning out the herd - so it looks like I'm set for this season, anyway...

I do know several guys who have the XRA - I'll have to test drive one with a bag full of eels

And yeah, I know about the perfect world scenario - I've already resolved to live my next life with considerably more money...

Thanks again, men...

"There is no royal road to this heavy surf-fishing. With all the appliances for comfort experience can suggest, there is a certain amount of hard work to be done and exposure to be bourne as a part of the price of success." From "Striped Bass," Scribner's Magazine, 1881.
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