Wasnt this part of the problem?

[RIJIMMY]

Part of the 75B mortgage plan -

Finally, the plan bolsters the amount of money allocated to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in an effort to keep mortgage rates low and entice new homebuyers into the market, since new buyers are what's needed to drive down the number of extra houses for sale.

So lets lower interest rates so people buy houses which will once again artifically inflate home prices so that the people who are under water in the homes will be ok. Sounds like a plan to me.

We cannot continue to blow air into a bubble, the bubble has burst.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Part of the 75B mortgage plan -

Finally, the plan bolsters the amount of money allocated to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in an effort to keep mortgage rates low and entice new homebuyers into the market, since new buyers are what's needed to drive down the number of extra houses for sale.

So lets lower interest rates so people buy houses which will once again artifically inflate home prices so that the people who are under water in the homes will be ok. Sounds like a plan to me.

We cannot continue to blow air into a bubble, the bubble has burst.

It's spring, alot of basements flood then. Lots of stuff underwater.
I don't get it either.

[spence]

Most markets only work assuming they trend up over time. The problem isn't that the markets grew, it's that they grew in a dysfunctional manner that couldn't sustain the normal cycle.

We need people to be able to buy houses or we can't fix this mess. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fix the dysfunction.

-spence

[JohnnyD]

It has been clearly stated that trying to get people a mortgage is for "qualified buyers." I've heard stories about people applying for a mortgage, been more than qualified with a high FICO and 15% downpayment, and the lender asking for a copy of their 2008 tax return???

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Most markets only work assuming they trend up over time. The problem isn't that the markets grew, it's that they grew in a dysfunctional manner that couldn't sustain the normal cycle.

We need people to be able to buy houses or we can't fix this mess. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fix the dysfunction.

-spence

Im glad that makes sense to you.

[Joe]

The free market answer is to do nothing.
If the boarded up houses drag down property values to the point where no one can sell or improve a home, and the notion owning your own home is transformed into the American nightmare, so be it.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Joe

The free market answer is to do nothing.
If the boarded up houses drag down property values to the point where no one can sell or improve a home, and the notion owning your own home is transformed into the American nightmare, so be it.

Bingo! Same goes for the automotive companies and corporate sector. Enough bailing out every part of our economy. The country cannot function without a financial system and if major national banks collapse, it would disastrous. But it needs to stop there.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Bingo! Same goes for the automotive companies and corporate sector. Enough bailing out every part of our economy. The country cannot function without a financial system and if major national banks collapse, it would disastrous. But it needs to stop there.

You said it. And the worst part is, the govornment then wants to tell them how to run their companies. The post master general makes 800k but they want to set the top pay private sector at 500k

[Joe]

Bingo! That's why you lost.
An economy in crisis needs intervention.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Joe

Bingo! That's why you lost.
An economy in crisis needs intervention.

"You" as in our children?

Blind intervention for the sake of doing something won't work. There is a reason the Dow is tanking to it's lowest point in 6 years. The plan is a fraud. What are you guys hanging on to. Why can't you admit the whole thing is a mistake and they should have torn it up and started over. This time with the American people in mind.

[Raven]

the printing presses can only run so fast....

otherwise they have to pass out gold

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

The free market answer is to do nothing.
If the boarded up houses drag down property values to the point where no one can sell or improve a home, and the notion owning your own home is transformed into the American nightmare, so be it.

I have a good memory. You were out here months ago whining about how Americans cannot afford to live in the same neighborhoods as their parents and that young people are priced out of homes.
Duh, Joe, thats becasue houses were way, way, way overvalued!!!! Their needs to be a correction! Obamas plan is to STOP the correction! Housing prices need to drop drastically. That means some real bad news for the ecomony and families. But a home is an investment, sometimes you lose! Were lending more money to people that couldnt afford it last year or the year before, and now they'll be able to afford it in this economy??????????????????????

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

"You" as in our children?

Blind intervention for the sake of doing something won't work. There is a reason the Dow is tanking to it's lowest point in 6 years. The plan is a fraud. What are you guys hanging on to. Why can't you admit the whole thing is a mistake and they should have torn it up and started over. This time with the American people in mind.

The reason the Dow is tanking is because we're in the depths of a severe Global recession. You seem to be asserting the plan to remedy is the source of the problem.

Be careful with this sort of circular logic. It doesn't make a lot of sense and will get RIROCKHOUND all in a tizzy.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

The reason the Dow is tanking is because we're in the depths of a severe Global recession. You seem to be asserting the plan to remedy is the source of the problem.

Be careful with this sort of circular logic. It doesn't make a lot of sense and will get RIROCKHOUND all in a tizzy.

-spence

I'm saying it is not the solution. Proof is in the Dows reaction

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

I'm saying it is not the solution. Proof is in the Dows reaction

You call that "proof"?

So when it tanked a week ago, or the other week before that, or the months before that...

Was that all hysteria over Obama's plan also?

-spence

[buckman]

I would call it a statement on how Wall St and the investors feel the outcome of this bill will be. They don't buy the "we had to do something" philosophy. I still contend that in the long run, we would have been better off passing nothing. This bill is a joke on the American people. I'm not laughing.

It hase not tanked this bad in over 6 years. Shouldn't spending a TRILLION dollars helped a little?

[RIJIMMY]

Spence, the movements in the markets are a reaction to daily news or announcements. The past 2-3 weeks, they have been reacting directly to Obama's plans. I think its silly how the market reacts to news on a daily basis however its a fact.
The markets reactions are are a reflection of confidence in the economy, based on the plans Obama is announcing.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Spence, the movements in the markets are a reaction to daily news or announcements. The past 2-3 weeks, they have been reacting directly to Obama's plans. I think its silly how the market reacts to news on a daily basis however its a fact.
The markets reactions are are a reflection of confidence in the economy, based on the plans Obama is announcing.

You forgot the part about the huge recession underneath it all.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

You forgot the part about the huge recession underneath it all.

-spence

No, that was responsible for the 40-60% drop in the markets which is already factored in.

[Joe]

"I have a good memory. You were out here months ago whining about how Americans cannot afford to live in the same neighborhoods as their parents and that young people are priced out of homes.
Duh, Joe, thats becasue houses were way, way, way overvalued!!!!"

I have a good memory too - you were suggesting that people get an MBA if they want a middle class lifestyle.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

"I have a good memory. You were out here months ago whining about how Americans cannot afford to live in the same neighborhoods as their parents and that young people are priced out of homes.
Duh, Joe, thats becasue houses were way, way, way overvalued!!!!"

I have a good memory too - you were suggesting that people get an MBA if they want a middle class lifestyle.

If thats what it takes to get ahead, is that a bad thing? thats because an MBA or classes or learning a trade are something YOU control, rather than looking to the government or teh American dream to owe you something. This country grew as a result of people bettering themselves and taking control. Until now that is.
Now the market has changed, real estate prices NEED to plummet. House will be more affordable. In the long term, its a good thing.! Its a good thing if people save 20% for a downpayment!
but if you fluff up the market to increase demand you'll keep prices high while devaluing the dollar.

[Joe]

No, its not a bad thing to get an advanced degree. But if an advanced degree is the ticket to the middle class, then what's been devalued is people, not property.
What's at the crux of the decline and fall of conservatism is this notion that the average worker is valueless simply by virtue of not being a member of the professional class.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

No, its not a bad thing to get an advanced degree. But if an advanced degree is the ticket to the middle class, then what's been devalued is people, not property.
What's at the crux of the decline and fall of conservatism is this notion that the average worker is valueless simply by virtue of not being a member of the professional class.

joe, we've never had conservatism, ever. Bush was the least conservative ever.
And that notion is ridiculous. Home prices were not driven sky high by that. Household incomes HAVE BEEN ON THE RISE FOR YEARS!! read that line again, on the rise for YEARS. the problem is that people bought more and bigger than they could afford, period. In the past retirees would downsize homes, opening up starter home for new families. But empowered by big 401ks and pensions, they actually bucked the trend and bought BIGGER houses and vacation homes. All along raising the prices of homes. Now, those prices are going down, bad for for homeowners, good for people who want to buy a new home. The Obama plan is like pumping money into the dot.com market so that eBay shares can stay at $400 a share!

so how can a guy who started a business out of his home dealing in high end speciality products, post 9/11 and during the evil Bush years be so critical of the free market? No barriers to entry, no extreme taxes and a populace that can afford to buy?

[Joe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

so how can a guy who started a business out of his home dealing in high end speciality products, post 9/11 and during the evil Bush years be so critical of the free market? No barriers to entry, no extreme taxes and a populace that can afford to buy?

I've got nothing against the letting free market forces dictate the economy under normal economic conditions.
I agree with the Keynesian Model which advocates government intervention in times of economic crisis. I disagree stongly with free market purists who believe an economy in crisis will right itself if left to its own devices.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

joe, we've never had conservatism, ever. Bush was the least conservative ever.

Conservatism is a guiding principal, it's not a method of government.

Bush became a neocon, and they are very liberal.

-spence

[EarnedStripes44]

....And Iraq was to be the Neocon's liberal utopia.