Iran

[Got Stripers]

Ironic that in 2011 Trump warned the Republican Party that Obama would attack Iran in order to get re-elected and he may have just done exactly that. No argument that the General was one evil SOB and while I trust our military, I question the current appointed head and I don’t trust the judgement of Trump. He wanted to avoid war, well I think he may have just guaranteed an escalation and potential for a larger conflict.

[JohnR]

Not a fan of Trump.

He did say for Iran to get their people away from our Embassy.

Iran has been fueling the fires of the region, from AFG to Yemen, to Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Israel. Soleimani was the mastermind running all those board games. He is responsible for the death and maiming of a thousand Americans and probably over 100 thousand others. If you know an American Military member that lost a limb or suffered TBI in Iraq - Soleimani had a significant hand in that.

Going to be a rocky road ahead

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Ironic that in 2011 Trump warned the Republican Party that Obama would attack Iran in order to get re-elected and he may have just done exactly that. No argument that the General was one evil SOB and while I trust our military, I question the current appointed head and I don’t trust the judgement of Trump. He wanted to avoid war, well I think he may have just guaranteed an escalation and potential for a larger conflict.

when did Trump “attack Iran?”

again, Trump was supposed
to do nothing when Iran assisted in the murder of a US citizen? if he did nothing, Pete would be attacking him for that. It literally doesn’t matter what he does...

i’m not saying we not be very thoughtful where Iran is concerned. But it’s a big stretch to say he attacked Iran.
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[Pete F.]

Our country has, quite self-consciously, given one person, the President, an enormous sprawling military and enormous discretion to use it in ways that can easily lead to a massive war. That is our system: one person decides.

I think Floridaman is an incompetent conman, in way over his head, who has systematically dismantled a large tranche of support, both within his government and from other nations. Based on his record in office, I fear that the people who typically would and that we as a country need to help shoulder the load will approach this like they would any madman with a gun. Very warily and unwilling to destroy their careers or endanger their countries for someone who will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat.

Now Jim will as always jump to his defense.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

when did Trump “attack Iran?”

again, Trump was supposed
to do nothing when Iran assisted in the murder of a US citizen? if he did nothing, Pete would be attacking him for that. It literally doesn’t matter what he does...

i’m not saying we not be very thoughtful where Iran is concerned. But it’s a big stretch to say he attacked Iran.
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If the shoe was on the other foot and Iran took out the head of our military while overseas with a strategic strike to do just that, don’t you think every single president past, present or future wouldn’t characterize it as an attack on America. Come on let’s get real.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

If the shoe was on the other foot and Iran took out the head of our military while overseas with a strategic strike to do just that, don’t you think every single president past, present or future wouldn’t characterize it as an attack on America. Come on let’s get real.

The head of our military wouldn't be in another country committing acts of terror. Slight difference.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Our country has, quite self-consciously, given one person, the President, an enormous sprawling military and enormous discretion to use it in ways that can easily lead to a massive war. That is our system: one person decides.

I think Floridaman is an incompetent conman, in way over his head, who has systematically dismantled a large tranche of support, both within his government and from other nations. Based on his record in office, I fear that the people who typically would and that we as a country need to help shoulder the load will approach this like they would any madman with a gun. Very warily and unwilling to destroy their careers or endanger their countries for someone who will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat.

Now Jim will as always jump to his defense.

"I think Floridaman is an incompetent conman"

No sh*t.

"who has systematically dismantled a large tranche of support, both within his government and from other nations"

Please provide some evidence, any evidence, that the world supports us less now, than they did in 2016. Mexico is, for the first time in a long time, putting troops on its southern border to stem the tide of illegals from Central America. Mexico did that for Trump, not for Obama, not for Bush. Trump pulled that off.

We recently signed a new trade agreement with Canada & Mexico that was well received. Canada & Mexico didn't refuse to come to the table because of Trump.

Huge numbers of the world's poor and desperate still want to come here. The Hong Kong protesters were waving the American flag for God's sake. So where is the evidence that our standing on the international stage, has taken a meaningful hit, because Trump is a jerk? You can shriek it as many times as you want. That doesn't make it so. The evidence doesn't support your claim.

"Now Jim will as always jump to his defense"

Everyone here knows that is a crock, a pathetic, desperate attempt by you to make me appear to be a thoughtless, braindead defender of Trump. I'm nothing close to that. He is truly a morally bankrupt egomaniac. That doesn't mean he's not a good executive.

You like to claim, correctly, that Obama inherited an economic mess. And he responded well. Similarly, Trump has inherited the godawful mess in the middle east, at a time when China and Russia are really on the rise (which advanced significantly under Obama's watch, not that I'm sure he could have stopped it). Let's see what Trump does. I have no problem with the original airstrike, nor do I have a problem with how quickly he sent Marines to defend the embassy. While I won't mourn the passing of the Iranian leader we killed, I'm not saying we should have done it. I don't know yet. But right now, our country is better off that this guy is dead.

I wish Mattis was still there.

[wdmso]

death and maiming the US has done its share

But how many Americans ever heard of this General and theses these atrocities
How many Americans are asking if he was so evil why now ?

how many Americans are saying Now Trump believes his intelligence community he was planning attacks against diplomats,

2019 Trump administration labels them a terrorists group.. is this the new way around targeted killings well call them or anyone a terrorist , and we are good to go

Trumps rolling the dice on this one , with the markets , American lives which in my view he has now put at greater risk than they were yesterday, totally told Iraq to f off by ignoring their sovereignty ,, Iraqis can see this clearly

I appreciate President @realDonaldTrump's bold action against Iranian aggression. To the Iranian government: if you want more, you will get more," Graham tweeted.

Just another example of Republicans willingness to concede their responsibility and enable Trumps vision of executive power

Sadly there is no upside if it dosen't escalate Trumps will see his choice as validation to his genius and he will broaden these actions , if it does escalate Trump and his supporters will blame Iran

What would Americans think if Iran called the joint chief of staff a terrorist and they killed him and others in their motorcade in a 3 rd country they were visiting?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"I think Floridaman is an incompetent conman"

No sh*t.

"who has systematically dismantled a large tranche of support, both within his government and from other nations"

Please provide some evidence, any evidence, that the world supports us less now, than they did in 2016. Mexico is, for the first time in a long time, putting troops on its southern border to stem the tide of illegals from Central America. Mexico did that for Trump, not for Obama, not for Bush. Trump pulled that off.

We recently signed a new trade agreement with Canada & Mexico that was well received. Canada & Mexico didn't refuse to come to the table because of Trump.

Huge numbers of the world's poor and desperate still want to come here. The Hong Kong protesters were waving the American flag for God's sake. So where is the evidence that our standing on the international stage, has taken a meaningful hit, because Trump is a jerk? You can shriek it as many times as you want. That doesn't make it so. The evidence doesn't support your claim.

"Now Jim will as always jump to his defense"

Everyone here knows that is a crock, a pathetic, desperate attempt by you to make me appear to be a thoughtless, braindead defender of Trump. I'm nothing close to that. He is truly a morally bankrupt egomaniac. That doesn't mean he's not a good executive.

You like to claim, correctly, that Obama inherited an economic mess. And he responded well. Similarly, Trump has inherited the godawful mess in the middle east, at a time when China and Russia are really on the rise (which advanced significantly under Obama's watch, not that I'm sure he could have stopped it). Let's see what Trump does. I have no problem with the original airstrike, nor do I have a problem with how quickly he sent Marines to defend the embassy. While I won't mourn the passing of the Iranian leader we killed, I'm not saying we should have done it. I don't know yet. But right now, our country is better off that this guy is dead.

I wish Mattis was still there.

Obama managed to box in and economically strangle both Russia and Iran without ever firing a shot.

Trump has singlehandedly undone all of that; resuscitated their influence; and endangered American interests in return for absolutely nothing.

[Pete F.]

If you think there is no problem, just book a room at a Trump property for the next month.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

death and maiming the US has done its share

But how many Americans ever heard of this General and theses these atrocities
How many Americans are asking if he was so evil why now ?

how many Americans are saying Now Trump believes his intelligence community he was planning attacks against diplomats,

2019 Trump administration labels them a terrorists group.. is this the new way around targeted killings well call them or anyone a terrorist , and we are good to go

Trumps rolling the dice on this one , with the markets , American lives which in my view he has now put at greater risk than they were yesterday, totally told Iraq to f off by ignoring their sovereignty ,, Iraqis can see this clearly

I appreciate President @realDonaldTrump's bold action against Iranian aggression. To the Iranian government: if you want more, you will get more," Graham tweeted.

Just another example of Republicans willingness to concede their responsibility and enable Trumps vision of executive power

Sadly there is no upside if it dosen't escalate Trumps will see his choice as validation to his genius and he will broaden these actions , if it does escalate Trump and his supporters will blame Iran

What would Americans think if Iran called the joint chief of staff a terrorist and they killed him and others in their motorcade in a 3 rd country they were visiting?

'death and maiming the US has done its share "

In the modern era, we don't start wars of aggression.

"But how many Americans ever heard of this General "

Not the least bit relevant. Too many people watch re-runs of 'Friends' instead of the news, that doesn't mean the guy isn't guilty as hell.

"if he was so evil why now ?" Either because this is the first time this target was somewhere where we could get him, or because we now have a president who won't allow others to murder Americans with no response.

"2019 Trump administration labels them a terrorists group.. is this the new way around targeted killings well call them or anyone a terrorist , and we are good to go"

Trump isn't the first person to label this guy a terrorist, not even close. Can you ever be honest?

"Trumps rolling the dice on this one "

Very, very true.

Why is Graham's statement to Iran, a "concession" of his responsibility? He's warning Iran not to target Americans, and you criticize him for that? I think most Americans are OK with a US Senator warning Iran that there may be grave consequences if they try to target Americans. But you think Graham is conceding responsibility for saying that?

Trump can't declare war with Iran by himself. Only Congress can do that.

[wdmso]

Is One Man’s Terrorist Another Man’s Freedom Fighter?


How one decides which is which depends on what end of the gun your on

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Obama managed to box in and economically strangle both Russia and Iran without ever firing a shot.

Trump has singlehandedly undone all of that; resuscitated their influence; and endangered American interests in return for absolutely nothing.

"Obama managed to box in and economically strangle both Russia and Iran without ever firing a shot."

I don't know what planet you happen to live on, but here on Earth, Obama sent Iran a jillion dollars in cash in the middle of the night. That's your idea of "economic starvation"? Is there any lie you won't tell to show that liberal=good, conservative=bad?

I gave Obama good marks on the economy and killing terrorists. He was a complete flop at reigning in adversarial heads of state. As you claim that Trumps bullying will make the world hate us, you and Obama feel that apologizing to and appeasing the bullies would make them like us more. That's not a theoretical speculation anymore, Obama did it for 8 years, and we know how it played out, the empirical evidence is right there. It didn't work well.

You are now at the point, where you literally aren't even worth reading or responding to.

Obama starved Iran economically. That's a good one.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Is One Man’s Terrorist Another Man’s Freedom Fighter?


How one decides which is which depends on what end of the gun your on

We don't target civilians. We go out of our way to avoid harming them (you can't always do so, especially when dealing with enemies who use women and children as shields). If you can't see that, you're beyond clueless.

[spence]

Seems like a vanity play, very risky, Iraq is close to falling apart anyway and Trump does this? I don’t buy the defensive argument.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Obama managed to box in and economically strangle both Russia and Iran without ever firing a shot."

I don't know what planet you happen to live on, but here on Earth, Obama sent Iran a jillion dollars in cash in the middle of the night. That's your idea of "economic starvation"? Is there any lie you won't tell to show that liberal=good, conservative=bad?

I gave Obama good marks on the economy and killing terrorists. He was a complete flop at reigning in adversarial heads of state. As you claim that Trumps bullying will make the world hate us, you and Obama feel that apologizing to and appeasing the bullies would make them like us more. That's not a theoretical speculation anymore, Obama did it for 8 years, and we know how it played out, the empirical evidence is right there. It didn't work well.

You are now at the point, where you literally aren't even worth reading or responding to.

Obama starved Iran economically. That's a good one.

Obama returned THEIR money as part of a bilateral agreement that Floridaman has broken without the agreement of our allies. He did not give them our money.
The current rise in oil prices will help Russia tremendously and Putin is ecstatic to see what is happening in the ME in the last year with Floridamans incompetence.
Don't worry Floridaman might just kill NATO with this horrorshow, nobody really wants to have to be on his side.
Maybe he should just send Rudy to round up some help.

[Jim in CT]

Pete, Obama boxed in Russia? Tellthat to Ukraine and Crimea.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Pete, Obama boxed in Russia? Tellthat to Ukraine and Crimea.
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You support Floridaman and you are worried about Ukraine and Crimea?
He's not and never has been, just why do you think the Ukrainian ambassador wrote an Op ed when Floridaman was intimating that Russia should just take over Crimea.
The right wing spin on Ukraine and Obama is uninformed at best.
Ukraine had and has tremendous corruption issues and just giving them missiles without training would have been useless. Look at the record of what was done, not the spewed baloney.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

'death and maiming the US has done its share "

In the modern era, we don't start wars of aggression. Not really the point was it

"But how many Americans ever heard of this General "

Not the least bit relevant. Too many people watch re-runs of 'Friends' instead of the news, that doesn't mean the guy isn't guilty as hell.

very relevant we kill someone then say how evil he was not all American are on a Trump IV drip


"if he was so evil why now ?" Either because this is the first time this target was somewhere where we could get him, or because we now have a president who won't allow others to murder Americans with no response.


if you believe this is True refer back to IV drip


"2019 Trump administration labels them a terrorists group.. is this the new way around targeted killings well call them or anyone a terrorist , and we are good to go"

Trump isn't the first person to label this guy a terrorist, not even close. Can you ever be honest?

again you missed the point

"Trumps rolling the dice on this one "

Very, very true.

Why is Graham's statement to Iran, a "concession" of his responsibility? He's warning Iran not to target Americans, and you criticize him for that? I think most Americans are OK with a US Senator warning Iran that there may be grave consequences if they try to target Americans. But you think Graham is conceding responsibility for saying that?

Trump can't declare war with Iran by himself. Only Congress can do that.

Trumps not trying to declare war hes is trying to start one but he doesn't think he is .

Otto Warmbier death , President Trump officially announced re-listing North Korea as a State Sponsor of Terrorism.

why didn't we kill Kim or his generals with air strikes for otto ? Trump gave him 2 summits

this is the issues with our current foreign policy, do you even have one that coherent

[Jim in CT]

wdmso, you said that only those in a trump IV drip would
agree this guy was evil. I completely disagree. But you say it, because it makes Trumps actions seem inappropriate. is John R on the Trump IV drip? because he knew about this guy.

you people will
say anything, anything, to make him look bad. you’ll ignore any fact, make up any fiction.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

We don't target civilians. We go out of our way to avoid harming them (you can't always do so, especially when dealing with enemies who use women and children as shields). If you can't see that, you're beyond clueless.

no kidding , but to think enemies who use women and children as shields is the reason we have killed civilians is a sad, that is classic

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

no kidding , but to think enemies who use women and children as shields is the reason we have killed civilians is a sad, that is classic

gibberish.
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[Pete F.]

An article by a smart Iranian refugee and it is a short read.

I am concerned that Floridaman does not have the patience, temperament, skill or support to put what Katiri thinks is a possible outcome together and it will end as another concession to Russia.


Early Friday morning, a U.S. drone strike killed Qassem Soleimani, the head of Iran’s Quds Force, as he rode in a convoy at Iraq’s Baghdad International Airport.

It couldn’t have happened to a better guy. But the question is: What comes next? Because unlike the killing of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, which was a capstone operation, the decision to kill Soleimani is likely to have significant downstream consequences.

The spectrum of possible scenarios is too wide, but the likely outcomes sit closer to the mean, which is continuing escalation from Iran, which would in turn require further escalation from the United States. The good news is that America holds all the good cards and has the opportunity to shape the region’s domestic and international politics.

https://thebulwark.com/killing-solei...nd-its-allies/

[Jim in CT]

I saw Chris Murphy crying that Trump didn't work with Congress on this.

(1) the democrats in congress have been saying for 23 years that Trump is Russian agent, a criminal, a racist, the second coming of Hitler. And then they act surprised that Trump didn't reach out to them? The democrats have made it clear they don't want a working relationship with Trump, and this is what not having a relationship looks like.

(2) Obama didn't consults Congress about the Bid Laden raid until after it happened, as far as I recall. Chris Murphy didn't cry about it.

Lindsey Graham (who I'm not a big fan of) was 100% correct when he tweeted today that if Iran responds by seeking mass American casualties, they can kiss their oil fields good-bye. Iran doesn't respond to presidents trying to appease them. It didn't work for Carter, and it didn't work for Obama.

Might be time to put 50% of my IRA in cash. I don't like the vibes that are being given here...

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I saw Chris Murphy crying that Trump didn't work with Congress on this.

(1) the democrats in congress have been saying for 23 years that Trump is Russian agent, a criminal, a racist, the second coming of Hitler. And then they act surprised that Trump didn't reach out to them? The democrats have made it clear they don't want a working relationship with Trump, and this is what not having a relationship looks like.
Tough #^&#^&#^&#^&, nobody made Birtherman King
Right wing media has been amplifying any and all comments re Floridaman's real or perceived transgressions. He hears everything bad anyone says about him every am watching Faux. It certainly looks like the converse is true of Floridaman as well, perhaps you missed Floridaman's behavior, tweets and rhetoric.

(2) Obama didn't consults Congress about the Bid Laden raid until after it happened, as far as I recall. Chris Murphy didn't cry about it.

Obama notified the gang of eight prior to the OBL sanction, which was carried out under the auspices of the CIA. This looks like it was done by the DOD. Different rules apply.

Lindsey Graham (who I'm not a big fan of) was 100% correct when he tweeted today that if Iran responds by seeking mass American casualties, they can kiss their oil fields good-bye. Iran doesn't respond to presidents trying to appease them. It didn't work for Carter, and it didn't work for Obama.

Might be time to put 50% of my IRA in cash. I don't like the vibes that are being given here...

It will be several years before we know the effect of this on the ME.
And now is when we need diplomats skilled in the ME, we'll see if this can be pulled together by Floridaman's best............. Tillerson and Pompeo have decimated the State Department with Floridamans approval.

[Jim in CT]

Pete, if trump is required by law to notify congress and he didn’t, let’s have another impeachment vote. If he’s not required, than the democrats haven’t earned the right to any niceties.
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[wdmso]

US Homeland Security Acting Secretary Chad Wolf has released a statement praising the air strike against Soleimani

Awful lot of cheerleading going on .. as if it was bin laden
Trying to put a postive spin on this targeted assasination... or should it be called a murder?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Pete, if trump is required by law to notify congress and he didn’t, let’s have another impeachment vote. If he’s not required, than the democrats haven’t earned the right to any niceties.
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Last I knew, a functioning democracy is not a nicety in this country and they were all elected to participate in governing.
The problem is Floridaman doesn't know how government works and thinks he can do what ever he wants.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

death and maiming the US has done its share

But how many Americans ever heard of this General and theses these atrocities
How many Americans are asking if he was so evil why now ?

If you have paying attention since before 9/11, you know the name.

Originally Posted by wdmso

Trumps rolling the dice on this one , with the markets , American lives which in my view he has now put at greater risk than they were yesterday, totally told Iraq to f off by ignoring their sovereignty ,, Iraqis can see this clearly

Like Obama and Pakistan?

Lots of Iraqis celebrating in the streets too

Originally Posted by wdmso

What would Americans think if Iran called the joint chief of staff a terrorist and they killed him and others in their motorcade in a 3 rd country they were visiting?

I have seen this take a bunch of times. We do not have an equivalent to Soleimani or the Quds Force and you know this. He was more an d equivalent to a Waffen SS / Stasi / Republican Guard commander all rolled up into one, with pinches of SOC and CIA.

Originally Posted by wdmso

Is One Man’s Terrorist Another Man’s Freedom Fighter?


How one decides which is which depends on what end of the gun your on

Which one is he to you?

Originally Posted by spence

Seems like a vanity play, very risky, Iraq is close to falling apart anyway and Trump does this? I don’t buy the defensive argument.
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Very risky, but leaving him alone and delivering pallets of cash did not work either.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Very risky, but leaving him alone and delivering pallets of cash did not work either.

It did put a hold on their nuclear program though. Always wondered how Trump’s fragile ego might blunder us into another war. We could be witnessing it live.
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