Disaster

[The Dad Fisherman]

Yes, they’re everywhere, can’t swing a dead cat without hitting one.

I bet you there’s one under your bed right now.

The summer of love and calls to defund the police wouldn’t have anything to do with it.
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[Pete F.]

A little perspective on Afghanistan. For example more than 20000 people have been evacuated from there without a single loss of an American life. At same time 5000 Americans have died from Covid and 500 have died from guns.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

A little perspective on Afghanistan. For example more than 20000 people have been evacuated from there without a single loss of an American life. At same time 5000 Americans have died from Covid and 500 have died from guns.
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this is obviously because there are no unvaccinated armed white nationalists are running around in Afghanistan....

[Pete F.]

Latest Afghanistan evacuation numbers from the White House this morning: From 8/22 at 3a ET to 8/23 at 3a ET, 28 US military flights evacuated ~10,400 people from Kabul and 61 coalition aircraft evacuated ~5,900 people. That brings the total to ~37,000 ppl evacuated since 8/14.

The win is that we are getting out, and getting people out, and by getting out freeing ourselves to defend our national interests in a manner where the means match the ends, and the ends match our interests.

Zero US casualties in the Afghanistan withdrawal. Zero.

Now tell me the alternate scenario, given that the State Department advised Americans to leave Afghanistan months ago, before the fall of Kabul & closure of the airport, what exactly is it that Biden should have done to force them to leave?

And one should think that after 20 years, if we haven’t inspired 89 million Afghans to oppose 100 thousand Taliban, what more can we do? We can’t stay forever; Afghan people need to determine their future, and we are evacuating what might be the strongest opposition.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Latest Afghanistan evacuation numbers from the White House this morning: From 8/22 at 3a ET to 8/23 at 3a ET, 28 US military flights evacuated ~10,400 people from Kabul and 61 coalition aircraft evacuated ~5,900 people. That brings the total to ~37,000 ppl evacuated since 8/14.

The win is that we are getting out, and getting people out, and by getting out freeing ourselves to defend our national interests in a manner where the means match the ends, and the ends match our interests.

Zero US casualties in the Afghanistan withdrawal. Zero.

Now tell me the alternate scenario, given that the State Department advised Americans to leave Afghanistan months ago, before the fall of Kabul & closure of the airport, what exactly is it that Biden should have done to force them to leave?

And one should think that after 20 years, if we haven’t inspired 89 million Afghans to oppose 100 thousand Taliban, what more can we do? We can’t stay forever; Afghan people need to determine their future, and we are evacuating what might be the strongest opposition.

You making up those numbers or your got a source to back them up ?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

You making up those numbers or your got a source to back them up ?
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https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...n-afghanistan/
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For those who love to make historical comparisons, many of whom know nothing about history, the US military evacuated around 7k people from Saigon. The US military has already evacuated 37k people from Afghanistan. Bet you haven't read or seen that.

[detbuch]

We should not have occupied Afghanistan to begin with. If they had Osama and wouldn't turn him over to us, we should have just carpet bombed that country and left a message on top of the rubble for the survivors and leaders that we would be back with more if they messed with us. I said that here on the forum way back then.

Having not done that, but intruding ourselves into their wonderful Islamic nation, we should only have done it after totally defeating the Taliban, totally wiped it out, then peacefully cleaning up the mess we made, and offer them assistance in rebuilding and occupying for a while.

We needed to leave. Maybe there was a better way. No opinion on that. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned. Islam is not peaceful. Nor is it compatible with our culture nor with democracy. Reforming it so that it would be compatible with Western values would be making it something totally different than it actually is.

[Pete F.]

So genocide would have been your solution, glad to know where you stand.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

So genocide would have been your solution, glad to know where you stand.

Glad to make you glad. We committed genocide on the Nazis of WWII. It worked pretty well.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Glad to make you glad. We committed genocide on the Nazis of WWII. It worked pretty well.

We didn’t commit genocide in the Second World War, you’re as astute a history student as the Stable Genius.
The Taliban troops comprise about eighty thousand of the 38 million people living in Afghanistan.
The Stable Genius also was a proponent of genocide, birds of a feather ain’t ya
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

We didn’t commit genocide in the Second World War, you’re as astute a history student as the Stable Genius.

Genocide: "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

We killed a large number of Nazis in Germany with the aim of destroying that group. And we did.

The Taliban troops comprise about eighty thousand of the 38 million people living in Afghanistan.

The 38 million are under a similar forced or complicit loyalty to the Taliban as the German population was to the Nazis. The collateral killing of many German citizens, as in Dresden, was considered necessary to wipe out the Nazis. Our ally, Russia, was also good at killing Nazis and collateral other Germans. The German population did not disavow or rebel against the Nazis, but supported them. The Afghan people will support the Taliban. As they did before we occupied their country. Totally wiping out the Taliban, as was done with the Nazis, should have been done if our goal was to nation build there.


The Stable Genius also was a proponent of genocide, birds of a feather ain’t ya
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No, I'm not a bird of a feather with Trump, I'm a bird of a feather with constitutionalists and anti-Progressives.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

No, I'm not a bird of a feather with Trump, I'm a bird of a feather with constitutionalists and anti-Progressives.

Over and over again, through history, you find the Right embracing violence and eventually dictatorship when the political tide turns and democracy is no longer in their favor.

That’s what we’re watching now. A rejection of institutions and a lust for authoritarianism.

Genocide which you claim is a solution will be the next step, perhaps you can explain just which other humans besides Muslims you think should be exterminated.
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[wdmso]

I am still puzzled when people insist there must have been a better way? when there clearly was a plan and it was told to the whole world Aug 31st .. we would be out! then the Afghan army cut and ran away throwing things into disorder It’s call the fog of war… Sure it’s ugly to watch but let’s be realistic if the Afghan army hadn’t ran we wouldn’t be in this situation, and it’s not our military might that is allowing us to keep removing people it’s the Taliban who is controlling it.. 5 well placed mortar rounds on the runway can stop everything..

the right keeps changing what upsets them 1st it was the optics ! then it was the fate of the poor Afghan women and young girls and translators! then it became equipment left behind which was the Afghan army’s equipment not ours ! then they are upset that same Afghans they were worried about leaving are coming to America ! And now they are upset we are speaking and dealing with the Taliban to insure Americans safety .. yet they cheered the last guy’s efforts..

You would think Republicans would be supporting what ever efforts are required to secure Americans and as many Afghans as we can.. but it seems they are more interested in doing what they do best complaining while providing no solution…. Other than drop bombs on foreheads and acting disappointed that there hasn’t been mass casualties
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

let’s be realistic if the Afghan army hadn’t ran we wouldn’t be in this situation

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victim shaming.....

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

victim shaming.....

Wow a 300k army are victims amazing
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

the right keeps changing what upsets them …. Other than drop bombs on foreheads and acting disappointed that there hasn’t been mass casualties

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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

the right keeps changing what upsets them
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damn right-wingers!

Former prime minister Tony Blair, slammed President Biden’s chaotic withdrawal from the country on Sunday.

“The abandonment of Afghanistan and its people is tragic, dangerous, unnecessary, not in their interests and not in ours,” Blair wrote in a statement published on his organization’s website.

Blair’s comments come after Biden denied at a press conference Friday that America’s reputation has been damaged and that U.S. allies have lost faith in our ability to conduct foreign policy amid the botched Afghanistan pull-out.

The former prime minister criticized the U.S. departure from Afghanistan as a politically motivated appeasement to constituents.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

damn right-wingers!

Former prime minister Tony Blair, slammed President Biden’s chaotic withdrawal from the country on Sunday.

“The abandonment of Afghanistan and its people is tragic, dangerous, unnecessary, not in their interests and not in ours,” Blair wrote in a statement published on his organization’s website.

Blair’s comments come after Biden denied at a press conference Friday that America’s reputation has been damaged and that U.S. allies have lost faith in our ability to conduct foreign policy amid the botched Afghanistan pull-out.

The former prime minister criticized the U.S. departure from Afghanistan as a politically motivated appeasement to constituents.

Maybe the Brits should have stayed after 2014, but remember when Sherlock Holmes met Dr Watson in the 1800s, the Dr had just returned from the war in Afghanistan.
Fiction but historically correct.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

damn right-wingers!

Former prime minister Tony Blair, slammed President Biden’s chaotic withdrawal from the country on Sunday.

“The abandonment of Afghanistan and its people is tragic, dangerous, unnecessary, not in their interests and not in ours,” Blair wrote in a statement published on his organization’s website.

Blair’s comments come after Biden denied at a press conference Friday that America’s reputation has been damaged and that U.S. allies have lost faith in our ability to conduct foreign policy amid the botched Afghanistan pull-out.

The former prime minister criticized the U.S. departure from Afghanistan as a politically motivated appeasement to constituents.

And what’s your point he’s not even American. And how was anything I mentioned not true
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

And what’s your point he’s not even American.

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so?

[Slipknot]

When this began and thousands of people were left to fend for themselves, I knew somehow, some way someone would step up to the plate and go in there. These guys deserve a helluva lot of gratitude and respect, so do those in the military there that defied orders. I pray they make it home safe. Evil exists.

http://mailer.bytesignal.com/ga/clic...71b-8ec56ef40b


Veterans of the United States special forces have “secretly rescued” hundreds of members of Afghanistan’s Special Forces and their families in recent days — allies who had been “left for dead” by the Biden administration, according to the Daily Mail.
The operation, codenamed “Pineapple Express” involved a “group of special op soldiers including retired Green Berets and SEAL Team commanders” who were inspired to taken matters into their own hands “after one of the Afghan commandos they served with contacted them to say he was on the run from the Taliban. His visa had not been approved when the Taliban took over on August 14 and thousands ran for the airport,” the Mail said Friday.
“The special ops soldiers first devised a system with US troops at the airport where they sent their comrades to a gate and told them to identify themselves with the password ‘pineapple’ to be put on a plane by the Marines on the ground. Some also showed the troops pictures of pineapples on their phones,” the outlet continued.
After getting their former colleagues out of Afghanistan, they began venturing outside the U.S. military perimeter around Hamid Karzai International Airport, defying Biden administration restrictions to rescue colleagues trapped in Kabul city.
“Moving after nightfall in near-pitch black darkness and extremely dangerous conditions, the group said it worked unofficially in tandem with the United States military and U.S. embassy to move people, sometimes one person at a time, or in pairs, but rarely more than a small bunch, inside the wire of the U.S. military-controlled side of Hamid Karzai International Airport,” ABC News added.
“As of Thursday morning, the group said it had brought as many as 500 Afghan special operators, assets and enablers and their families into the airport in Kabul overnight, handing them each over to the protective custody of the U.S. military,” the outlet needed.
The operation came to light following a deadly terrorist attack in Kabul on Thursday that left nearly 200 dead, including 10 U.S. Marines, 2 U.S. Army soldiers, and 1 U.S. Navy hospital corpsman. The blast did affect some of the “Pineapple Express” travelers, the veterans associated with the mission said. They do not yet know whether some of their colleagues are among the dead.
Around 130 individuals have been smuggled into the protective custody of the U.S. military inside the perimeter of HKIA by a separate “Task Force Pineapple,” “an informal group whose mission began as a frantic effort on Aug. 15 to get one former Afghan commando who had served with group founder Col. Scott Mann, a former Green Beret.
“Dozens of high-risk individuals, families with small children, orphans, and pregnant women, were secretly moved through the streets of Kabul throughout the night and up to just seconds before ISIS detonated a bomb into the huddled mass of Afghans seeking safety and freedom,” Mann said.
Many of those who assisted Task Force Pineapple chose to defy orders, Mann said, exiting the secure perimeter, even as the Biden administration demanded they stay within airport walls, reportedly over President Joe Biden’s fear of a “Black Hawk Down” moment.
“This Herculean effort couldn’t have been done without the unofficial heroes inside the airfield who defied their orders to not help beyond the airport perimeter, by wading into sewage canals and pulling in these targeted people who were flashing pineapples on their phones,” Mann said.
“With the uniformed U.S. military unable to venture outside the airport’s perimeter to collect Americans and Afghans who’ve sought U.S. protection for their past joint service, they instead provided overwatch and awaited coordinated movements by an informal Pineapple Express ground team that included “conductors” led by former Green Beret Capt. Zac Lois, known as the underground railroad’s ‘engineer,’” ABC News reported.
Lois told ABC that he was proud of and astounded by the effort.
“That is an astounding number for an organization that was only assembled days before the start of operations and most of its members had never met each other in person,” he said.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

When this began and thousands of people were left to fend for themselves, I knew somehow, some way someone would step up to the plate and go in there. These guys deserve a helluva lot of gratitude and respect, so do those in the military there that defied orders. I pray they make it home safe. Evil exists.

http://mailer.bytesignal.com/ga/clic...71b-8ec56ef40b


Veterans of the United States special forces have “secretly rescued” hundreds of members of Afghanistan’s Special Forces and their families in recent days — allies who had been “left for dead” by the Biden administration, according to the Daily Mail.
The operation, codenamed “Pineapple Express” involved a “group of special op soldiers including retired Green Berets and SEAL Team commanders” who were inspired to taken matters into their own hands “after one of the Afghan commandos they served with contacted them to say he was on the run from the Taliban. His visa had not been approved when the Taliban took over on August 14 and thousands ran for the airport,” the Mail said Friday.
“The special ops soldiers first devised a system with US troops at the airport where they sent their comrades to a gate and told them to identify themselves with the password ‘pineapple’ to be put on a plane by the Marines on the ground. Some also showed the troops pictures of pineapples on their phones,” the outlet continued.
After getting their former colleagues out of Afghanistan, they began venturing outside the U.S. military perimeter around Hamid Karzai International Airport, defying Biden administration restrictions to rescue colleagues trapped in Kabul city.
“Moving after nightfall in near-pitch black darkness and extremely dangerous conditions, the group said it worked unofficially in tandem with the United States military and U.S. embassy to move people, sometimes one person at a time, or in pairs, but rarely more than a small bunch, inside the wire of the U.S. military-controlled side of Hamid Karzai International Airport,” ABC News added.
“As of Thursday morning, the group said it had brought as many as 500 Afghan special operators, assets and enablers and their families into the airport in Kabul overnight, handing them each over to the protective custody of the U.S. military,” the outlet needed.
The operation came to light following a deadly terrorist attack in Kabul on Thursday that left nearly 200 dead, including 10 U.S. Marines, 2 U.S. Army soldiers, and 1 U.S. Navy hospital corpsman. The blast did affect some of the “Pineapple Express” travelers, the veterans associated with the mission said. They do not yet know whether some of their colleagues are among the dead.
Around 130 individuals have been smuggled into the protective custody of the U.S. military inside the perimeter of HKIA by a separate “Task Force Pineapple,” “an informal group whose mission began as a frantic effort on Aug. 15 to get one former Afghan commando who had served with group founder Col. Scott Mann, a former Green Beret.
“Dozens of high-risk individuals, families with small children, orphans, and pregnant women, were secretly moved through the streets of Kabul throughout the night and up to just seconds before ISIS detonated a bomb into the huddled mass of Afghans seeking safety and freedom,” Mann said.
Many of those who assisted Task Force Pineapple chose to defy orders, Mann said, exiting the secure perimeter, even as the Biden administration demanded they stay within airport walls, reportedly over President Joe Biden’s fear of a “Black Hawk Down” moment.
“This Herculean effort couldn’t have been done without the unofficial heroes inside the airfield who defied their orders to not help beyond the airport perimeter, by wading into sewage canals and pulling in these targeted people who were flashing pineapples on their phones,” Mann said.
“With the uniformed U.S. military unable to venture outside the airport’s perimeter to collect Americans and Afghans who’ve sought U.S. protection for their past joint service, they instead provided overwatch and awaited coordinated movements by an informal Pineapple Express ground team that included “conductors” led by former Green Beret Capt. Zac Lois, known as the underground railroad’s ‘engineer,’” ABC News reported.
Lois told ABC that he was proud of and astounded by the effort.
“That is an astounding number for an organization that was only assembled days before the start of operations and most of its members had never met each other in person,” he said.

To bad the Afghan army couldn’t or wouldn’t fight like their Afghan counterparts.. but not sure how anyone can suggest what the correct number of Afghans is to get out .. seeing we’ve been there 20years ..

When you have so many competing agencies trying to get personal who worked for them out all at the same time .. it’s crazy

No matter where people stand regards to Biden

Stay or go! 60k or 100k people out kias or no Kia There is no solution that would satisfy anyone in this partisan environment in the USA
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[wdmso]

As mentioned Britain withdrew its last combat troops in 2014

So Blair really has no dog in the fight does he
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[Got Stripers]

Twenty years, trillions of dollars, almost 200K lives lost, now almost 50K evacuated without loss of life, the right and hawks are struggling for any win.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Twenty years, trillions of dollars, almost 200K lives lost, now almost 50K evacuated without loss of life,

.

definitely a huge success...biden should get a nobel prize

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

definitely a huge success...biden should get a nobel prize

You might be correct for once

As a marine who served in Afghanistan twice said, he can explain it in two sentences

One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

Biden pulled the plug and it’s over.
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[scottw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post

definitely a huge success...biden should get a nobel prize

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You might be correct for once

^^^^^HALL of FAME material

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Over and over again, through history, you find the Right embracing violence and eventually dictatorship when the political tide turns and democracy is no longer in their favor.

It's a leftist cliche that "the Right" embraces violence and dictatorship. It is in leftist lexicology wherein "the Right" is defined as dictatorial. But over and over again, through history, as you put it, dictators, violent or otherwise, have been defined as "the Left" as well.

That’s what we’re watching now. A rejection of institutions and a lust for authoritarianism.

And it is evident, worldwide, that it is currently what is referred to as "the Left" which has been rejecting institutions and foundations and linguistic meaning and history and local and national cultures and fundamentally transforming societies and governments with an authoritarian lust.

Genocide which you claim is a solution will be the next step, perhaps you can explain just which other humans besides Muslims you think should be exterminated.
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I was not in favor of going to war with the Taliban. My preference is to make this country too strong to mess with and use whatever force necessary against those who would do us harm. Exterminating those who want to exterminate us doesn't prick my conscience.

But if you go to war, then achieve total victory. If you want to call that genocide and that word horrifies you, then avoid war. And pray that your pacifism will shield you from those wolves who would prey on your flock and utterly destroy you. Islam has a built in mission to place the world in submission to it. And not by friendly mutually satisfying terms. It is methodically doing that now to non-Muslims in territories in Africa and the Middle East that are under Islamic control.

I would shed no tears if the Taliban were totally exterminated.

[Pete F.]

New: Roughly 21,600 people were evacuated from Kabul between 3 AM EDT on 8/23 and 3 AM EDT this morning.

Since 8/14, we've gotten approx. 58,700 people out. 63,900 people since the end of July.
Meanwhile
A huge contradiction has emerged in GOP criticism of Afghan evacuation:

Part of the party attacks Biden for hopelessly botching it and failing to rescue Afghans who helped US.

Another part of the party (and some of the same people) don't want to let more Afghans in the US.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

GOP criticism

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I bet if trump was still president and this exact thing happened you and your friends would be wanting him nominated for a nobel prize