Student loan forgiveness

[Sea Dangles]

Liz Warren proposing 640billion in student loan forgiveness to be passed on to taxpayers. Thoughts?

[Slipknot]

There a a lot of uninformed people in this country who also have zero common sense

add to that power hungry selfish greedy people

[Jim in CT]

the student loan universe has some deception and corruption, there needs to be some reform. and the loans should be dischargeable
in bankruptcy. but no to forgiveness. and schools
should have some skin in the game.
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[Nebe]

I find it ironic that Republicans bawl at any government assistance to the people but seem to ignore bank bailouts corperate subsidies , oil subsaties and farm aid.
I dont want to see any of it including student loan forgiveness.

What I do want to see is everyone in this country making At least $15 an hour and debt free so they can have a disposable income to help the economy thrive.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

What I do want to see is everyone in this country making At least $15 an hour and debt free so they can have a disposable income to help the economy thrive.

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how are you going to accomplish this Eben? just curious

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by scottw

how are you going to accomplish this Eben? just curious

minimum wage.

You know why it was created, right?
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[Sea Dangles]

To see everyone debt free will be accomplished with $15 minimum wage.

Great to get into the mind of a liberal!
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[JohnR]

I was talking with a smart young lady last week.

Mid / late 20s, smart, kind, dog mom, degree, lived on campus, did several years abroad. She has well in excess of 100k in student loans, wishes she had done it differently, that the experience was not worth the debt. She'll vote for Warren because getting rid of the debt is her best option.

She doesn't comprehend that all this has costs. She thinks we can get by cutting most other things other than social programs, raise taxes on other people.

She's a good kid but has little exposure outside of her echo chamber.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

minimum wage.

You know why it was created, right?
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your hero...

Democrat presidential candidate Bernie Sanders announced this weekend he will cut staffers' hours so that they can effectively be paid a $15-an-hour minimum wage, prompting mockery from critics.

"For the first time in his life, socialist Bernie Sanders practices economics and, buddy, the results are hilarious," wrote columnist and humorist Stephen Miller. He added: "Why won’t millionaire Bernie Sanders, who owns 3 homes, instead of cutting hours, pay his staff a living wage? People are starving."

[The Dad Fisherman]

No debt, that 's a good one.

Free Homes
Free Cars
Free TV's
Free Phones

or is this all going to be covered by $15 an hour

[Sea Dangles]

I will be asking for reparations if this goes through. I am actually considering loans for the remaining college just in case the liberals make this a reality.
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[Moses]

Student loan forgiveness - No

Tackle the root cause which is ridiculously expensive education costs.

[Sea Dangles]

Right on.
If we had free community college then that is worth debating. The fact that these idiots want to forgive any debt is ridiculous. Obama even paid back Iran!
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[The Dad Fisherman]

People need to understand that you don't spend tens of thousands of dollars, that you don't have, on a degree that won't translate into a paying job once you get it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

People need to understand that you don't spend tens of thousands of dollars, that you don't have, on a degree that won't translate into a paying job once you get it.

the parents aren’t looking out for their kids, and the schools aren’t being honest about what degrees generate what kind of return.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

at some point a couple of decades ago, going into "The Trades" started to be looked down upon. Last time I looked, my plumber was making more than twice what I make.

[Rmarsh]

The salaries of these professors are ridiculous.
Check out the payroll for Umass...thousands of 6 figure salaries.
When I wanted to sign up for a course to learn autocad....my dad said..."why do you need to pay someone to tell you to open a book and study". He was right...I taught myself through study and practice.
Plumbers and electricians have some protections from the invasion of illegal immigrants...as far as the carpentry trade.....forget it.

The top salaries are listed by name, job title and annual pay.

Mohammad A. Karim, Provost, Executive VC, COO, $295,100
Divina G. Grossman, Chancellor, $280,210
Mary Lu Bilek, Dean, UMass Law, $273,890
Mark Preble, VC, Admin. & Fiscal Services, $229,999
Steven E. Lorenz, Dean of SMAST, $229,413
Jeannette Riley, Dean, College of Arts & Sciences, $219,999
Angappa Gunasekaran, Dean, Charlton College of Business, $219,811
Robert E. Peck, Dean, College of Engineering, $216,589
Magali M. Carrera, Vice Provost for Academic Affairs, $196,402
Farhad Azadivar, Professor, Engineering, $181,166
Matthew H. Roy, Asst. Provost & Dir. Civic Engagment, $180,874
Gerard Kavanaugh, Sr. VC, Strategic Management, $180,000

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

The salaries of these professors are ridiculous.
Check out the payroll for Umass...thousands of 6 figure salaries.
When I wanted to sign up for a course to learn autocad....my dad said..."why do you need to pay someone to tell you to open a book and study". He was right...I taught myself through study and practice.
Plumbers and electricians have some protections from the invasion of illegal immigrants...as far as the carpentry trade.....forget it.

The top salaries are listed by name, job title and annual pay.

Mohammad A. Karim, Provost, Executive VC, COO, $295,100
Divina G. Grossman, Chancellor, $280,210
Mary Lu Bilek, Dean, UMass Law, $273,890
Mark Preble, VC, Admin. & Fiscal Services, $229,999
Steven E. Lorenz, Dean of SMAST, $229,413
Jeannette Riley, Dean, College of Arts & Sciences, $219,999
Angappa Gunasekaran, Dean, Charlton College of Business, $219,811
Robert E. Peck, Dean, College of Engineering, $216,589
Magali M. Carrera, Vice Provost for Academic Affairs, $196,402
Farhad Azadivar, Professor, Engineering, $181,166
Matthew H. Roy, Asst. Provost & Dir. Civic Engagment, $180,874
Gerard Kavanaugh, Sr. VC, Strategic Management, $180,000

and a huge number of the professors don’t work
anywhere near 2,000
hours a year.
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[DZ]

If you accept loan forgiveness there has to be a "repayment" to society.
Maybe for every $25,000 in loan forgiveness... you serve one year in military.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by DZ

If you accept loan forgiveness there has to be a "repayment" to society.
Maybe for every $25,000 in loan forgiveness... you serve one year in military.

Always thought this would make a good pathway to citizenship.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

The salaries of these professors are ridiculous.
Check out the payroll for Umass...thousands of 6 figure salaries.

If you want to be a good contractor you don't hire a bunch of illegal immigrants, do you?

You hire people whose qualifications meet your needs, whether they are laborers or millwrights and good ones are better compensated than hacks.

Why would people at the top of their field work for less in education, than they can command in the private sector?
If you google most any of the people in the top salaries list, you'll find that they have extensive experience, a great CV and are extensively published.
There are some hacks in Community Colleges and also some people who love to teach, but the compensation doesn't compare.
I know one guy who is a CC professor that loves it, he said it is way easier than working for a major university or College. No publish or perish, no year round labs, no masters or doctorate programs to deal with. Just students when you are in session and short terms. That is not true for top schools.

When I wanted to sign up for a course to learn autocad....my dad said..."why do you need to pay someone to tell you to open a book and study". He was right...I taught myself through study and practice.

You are lucky to be able to self educate, many people can't.

You can become a lawyer in some states by reading the law without ever going to law school, but few people do it.
I don't know many other professions that you can do that in, you have to go to college to get the creds and what college you attend matters. That is why people bribing people to get into schools was in the news recently.

Plumbers and electricians have some protections from the invasion of illegal immigrants...as far as the carpentry trade.....forget it.

You are lucky to be able to self educate, many people can't.

You can become a lawyer in some states by reading the law without ever going to law school, but few people do it.
I don't know many other professions that you can do that in, you have to go to college to get the creds and what college you attend matters. That is why people bribing people to get into schools was in the news recently.

I remember years ago sitting at break, one of the guys said "I learned my trade, blah, blah" Someone said what trade is that?
He said carpentry and the other guy said: "Kid, you're in Vermont, carpentering is something most any farmer can do."
The guy with a trade became a teacher, actually.

There were a lot of farmers turned hack contractors in the 70s. I know a few that were pretty good though. Self taught good mechanics.

[Jim in CT]

"Why would people at the top of their field work for less in education, than they can command in the private sector?"

Because teaching is supposed to be a calling. Not something that people were drawn to because of the cushy lifestyle, stupid pensions, or salaries. There's a retired UCONN finance professor, whose annual pension is over $300,000. I took 7 Finance courses when he was teaching there, and I was a serious student, and I never heard of him. Not one student ever decided to go to UCONN because he teaches there. Nothing to see...

If you're OK with teachers making hundreds of thousands of dollars, you can't complain about student debt.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Always thought this would make a good pathway to citizenship.
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It is "Naturalization Through Military Service"

https://www.uscis.gov/military/natur...litary-service

but "After Serving in the Military, Immigrants Now Face Deportation"

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...portation.html

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It is "Naturalization Through Military Service"

https://www.uscis.gov/military/natur...litary-service

but "After Serving in the Military, Immigrants Now Face Deportation"

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...portation.html

Thats a "Kinda" the same but not really. The naturalization through military service requires you to be a legal permanent resident to enlist. Those coming in illegally can't join the military so they don't qualify for it. Which is more what I was referring to. They want illegals to have a pathway to citizenship, maybe allowing them to enlist is a way.

the 2nd article is fluff that really has no bearing. I feel sorry for the guy, but A) he never filed to become naturalized and B) he became a felon, so that's a big 'Sorry, Not Sorry" for me.

maybe there is some tweaking that needs to be done with the rule.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Why would people at the top of their field work for less in education, than they can command in the private sector?"

Because teaching is supposed to be a calling.

I love building things, always have, are you suggesting I should do it for free?

Just how much, now that you are an admitted communist, would you set education professionals compensation at?

You seem to have a problem with markets setting prices only in this case.

The higher ed market is currently thinning itself out, teaching jobs in colleges are much scarcer than they were 15 years ago.

Thinking that professors salaries drives the cost of higher ed is incorrect, here is one retired dean's take on it.

Students in the USA (unlike in other countries) have come to expect MUCH more from college than just education. They want an active social life, a luxurious (or at least very comfortable) room in the domitory, high quality food in the cafeteria, lots of fun sports, fraternities and sororities—FUN, FUN, FUN. They also want a beautiful campus with lots of lovely buildings and state of the art equipment, etc. All of this is expensive.

Can we significantly lower the cost of higher education? Absolutely. Eliminate all the frills and provide high quality teaching—ONLY. Nothing else. Do some or all teaching online (teaching online has become very sophisticated and very effective). This eliminates the need for huge costly campuses that require massive maintenance. A single building where administration resides, some classrooms are available, and testing is done should be enough. And eliminate the formula for government subsidies for tuition. Give students a fixed sum instead of a percentage of tuition to help with costs.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Thats a "Kinda" the same but not really. The naturalization through military service requires you to be a legal permanent resident to enlist. Those coming in illegally can't join the military so they don't qualify for it. Which is more what I was referring to. They want illegals to have a pathway to citizenship, maybe allowing them to enlist is a way.

the 2nd article is fluff that really has no bearing. I feel sorry for the guy, but A) he never filed to become naturalized and B) he became a felon, so that's a big 'Sorry, Not Sorry" for me.

maybe there is some tweaking that needs to be done with the rule.

You didn't read the whole article.
Trump eliminated MAVNI almost immediately after election.

There's another much smaller group of veterans who face potential deportation -- asylum seekers, refugees and certain visa-holders who served in the military to provide specific language, health care backgrounds or cultural skills considered vital to the nation's interest. This group is part of the Military Accessions Vital to National Interest program, otherwise known as MAVNI.

More than 10,000 enlisted in MAVNI from 2009 to late 2016, when the program was essentially abolished, according to retired U.S. Army Lt. Colonel Margaret Stock, who spearheaded MAVNI. Under Stock, the program made it possible for newly enlisted immigrants to get access to a sped-up naturalization process while still in basic training.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I love building things, always have, are you suggesting I should do it for free?

Just how much, now that you are an admitted communist, would you set education professionals compensation at?

You seem to have a problem with markets setting prices only in this case.

The higher ed market is currently thinning itself out, teaching jobs in colleges are much scarcer than they were 15 years ago.

Thinking that professors salaries drives the cost of higher ed is incorrect, here is one retired dean's take on it.

Students in the USA (unlike in other countries) have come to expect MUCH more from college than just education. They want an active social life, a luxurious (or at least very comfortable) room in the domitory, high quality food in the cafeteria, lots of fun sports, fraternities and sororities—FUN, FUN, FUN. They also want a beautiful campus with lots of lovely buildings and state of the art equipment, etc. All of this is expensive.

Can we significantly lower the cost of higher education? Absolutely. Eliminate all the frills and provide high quality teaching—ONLY. Nothing else. Do some or all teaching online (teaching online has become very sophisticated and very effective). This eliminates the need for huge costly campuses that require massive maintenance. A single building where administration resides, some classrooms are available, and testing is done should be enough. And eliminate the formula for government subsidies for tuition. Give students a fixed sum instead of a percentage of tuition to help with costs.

i never said private sector work was a calling. i said teaching is supposed to be a calling. you have a real problem hearing what people are saying, don’t you? when trump says rat infested, you hear black infested. When i say teaching is supposed to be a calling, you hear that construction is supposed to be a calling? maybe get checked for
dimentia, or try taking off the tin foil
hat.

baltimore spends over $16,000 per student, each year. is the problem a lack of money? or is the problem a misallocation of money? there are some problems, for which the solution, isn’t higher taxes.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I love building things, always have, are you suggesting I should do it for free?

Just how much, now that you are an admitted communist, would you set education professionals compensation at?

You seem to have a problem with markets setting prices only in this case.

The higher ed market is currently thinning itself out, teaching jobs in colleges are much scarcer than they were 15 years ago.

Thinking that professors salaries drives the cost of higher ed is incorrect, here is one retired dean's take on it.

Students in the USA (unlike in other countries) have come to expect MUCH more from college than just education. They want an active social life, a luxurious (or at least very comfortable) room in the domitory, high quality food in the cafeteria, lots of fun sports, fraternities and sororities—FUN, FUN, FUN. They also want a beautiful campus with lots of lovely buildings and state of the art equipment, etc. All of this is expensive.

Can we significantly lower the cost of higher education? Absolutely. Eliminate all the frills and provide high quality teaching—ONLY. Nothing else. Do some or all teaching online (teaching online has become very sophisticated and very effective). This eliminates the need for huge costly campuses that require massive maintenance. A single building where administration resides, some classrooms are available, and testing is done should be enough. And eliminate the formula for government subsidies for tuition. Give students a fixed sum instead of a percentage of tuition to help with costs.

"Just how much, now that you are an admitted communist, would you set education professionals compensation at?"

Here in CT, education compensation is at levels that are tens of billions of dollars more, than the highest taxes in the country, could ever fund. That is mathematical fact. And it suggests to me, that the spending is the problem.

So I'd set all public employee compensation at whatever can be funded by reasonable taxes. I'm sure that sounds bonkers to you.

"Thinking that professors salaries drives the cost of higher ed is incorrect, here is one retired dean's take on it."

I love it when you find one guy somewhere who writes something, and as long as it's liberal, that's good enough for you to give it 100% credibility.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Trump eliminated MAVNI almost immediately after election.

That's another kinda, sort of, but not really.

MAVNI was extended through December 2016 but wasn't picked back up. Its suspended, not eliminated. This happened in 2009 and wasn't activated again until 2012.

and this is only for Legal Non-Immigrants, legal being the operative word

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i never said private sector work was a calling. i said teaching is supposed to be a calling. you have a real problem hearing what people are saying, don’t you? when trump says rat infested, you hear black infested. When i say teaching is supposed to be a calling, you hear that construction is supposed to be a calling? maybe get checked for
dimentia, or try taking off the tin foil
hat.

baltimore spends over $16,000 per student, each year. is the problem a lack of money? or is the problem a misallocation of money? there are some problems, for which the solution, isn’t higher taxes.
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So teaching is a kind of work that you do not need to be paid for, or just less valuable in your mind and should only be done by old maids?

What does Baltimore education or the cost thereof, have to do with higher ed?