Waterlox - Tung oil questions

[KenM]

I was searching some past threads the other day and came across a post talking about using Waterlox as a sealer .
After reading some labels on the Waterlox cans in the Ace Hardware the other day I'm a little confused.

Is Waterlox being used as a sealer before priming and painting or as a finish coat after painting or both sealer and finish coat?

It comes in different flavors, Original and Marine in both sealer and finish and there is also a Urethane finish ,which ones should I get ?

I have some "Behlen" pure tung oil I purchased from Grizzly.Can I use this the same as I would the Waterlox?

I've only made a handfull of plugs so far using red cedar and haven't been taking the time to seal them. Thought I would give the Waterlox a try and since it's a little pricey I was hoping to get the selection narrowed down a little beforehand.

I want to thank everyone on the site for all the great info shared also.
Thanks,
KenM

[capesams]

val-oil/turps

urethane/turps

urethane/linseed/turps mix: bowl turners spec.sauce

linseed/turps

waterlox marine [never tried it]

[Raven]

you didnt mention TUNG OIL

i used to do gun stocks with it....

and was always impressed with the finnish....

[capesams]

I beleive most concockion's these day's have some form of tung oil's in them/blend's of one thing or another,,,straight oils take forever to dry...urethane's contain hardner's and drier's to speed up the dring time
I was talking to someone the other day about a guy who turns bowl"s for a living,,some go for $5,000.00 and better..his sealer and finish all in one is the linseed/urethane mix.....I guess the urethane helps dry up the linseed and give's the finish abit of hardness so it doesn't stay gooie from the straight oil.

never tried straight tung oil..we alway's used linseed on gun stock's,,wiping off as not to get to much of a build up...but in time on a hot day the oil would get sticky. then would have to use fine steel wool to strip it off...a reel pain after awhile.

[KenM]

Capesams are you using those concoctions as both sealers and finishes or just sealers ?

Anyone out there using the Waterlox?

Ken

[capesams]

yes+ yes and wish I could get my hands on some two part laquer as well.

[Slipknot]

2 part laquer? you mean pre-catalyzed where they add the catalyst for you in the store? or some kind of conversion varnish? The pre catalyzed laquer has a 6 month shelf life.

[Justfishin']

Ken, I use the Waterlox a lot,it's a tung oil blend that's a fairly fast-build oil finish for cabinets and furniture. I have been using it as a sealer for my plugs('cause I have it) under enamel paints. I thin it 50% with VM&P naptha and put them in a closed container (a ziplock baggie will work) to soak 3-4 hrs, wipe them off to dry for a day or so. Sand lightly before paint. The naptha helps it penetrate and 'flashes' off quickly.However naptha is extremely flammable and has to be used outside. A safer alternative is Specs. paint thinner, it'll just take longer to dry. Again, be very careful with any type of petroleum solvent/mineral spirits, they're very flammable!. Also, you have to keep the Waterlox container tightly closed or it'll turn to jelly. Or- an inexpensive interior/exterior polyurethane thinned with specs. as above will work well as a sealer too and is cheaper with a longer shelf life. I've been using Flex Coat rod finish as a finish,again 'cause I have some.Not the toughest around rocks, but o.k..
Capesams- Try Hood Finishing- www.hoodfinishing.com .

[beachwalker]

I finish floors for a living and Waterlox is the best we use.

The original sealer and the Marfine sealer are EXACTLY the same thing. They are able to beat the VOC rules by marketing the sealer as a "marine" sealer(450ppm) and can sell it in a gallon in states where the allowable voc ppm is on 350ppm. this is because it is considered to be used outdoors. that is why you see quarts on the shelves
They both are important to use as a first coat but built up to 4-5 coats and the sealer produces a semi gloss finish.

The satin has a flattening agent in it in order to acheive the satin finish.

The gloss has some POWERFUL stuff (xylene, etc.) and does a high gloss.

The basic rule is:

2 coats sealer then 2 coats (satin/gloss) for softwoods
1 coat sealer then 3 coats finish for hardwoods

The thing I like most about it is that you can shake the cans to mix. The bubbles will go away. It takes about 4 hours to begin to set up. In normal temps of 65-70 degrees it will be dry and recoatable in 8 hours. sand between coats with 220 grit

hope this helps....

[capesams]

Slip...I was told by someone who helped out Danny p off an on over the years. It was made by Sherman-williams..two part laquer...many moons ago and like all good thing's it's gone from the market...a darter I was give[in the raw] from danny was dipped in this stuff for a sealer I do beleive..tough as nails and a very thin coating.Searching the web has come up dry for this product.

[PNG]

Originally Posted by beachwalker

I finish floors for a living and Waterlox is the best we use.

The original sealer and the Marfine sealer are EXACTLY the same thing. They are able to beat the VOC rules by marketing the sealer as a "marine" sealer(450ppm) and can sell it in a gallon in states where the allowable voc ppm is on 350ppm. this is because it is considered to be used outdoors. that is why you see quarts on the shelves
They both are important to use as a first coat but built up to 4-5 coats and the sealer produces a semi gloss finish.

The satin has a flattening agent in it in order to acheive the satin finish.

The gloss has some POWERFUL stuff (xylene, etc.) and does a high gloss.

The basic rule is:

2 coats sealer then 2 coats (satin/gloss) for softwoods
1 coat sealer then 3 coats finish for hardwoods

The thing I like most about it is that you can shake the cans to mix. The bubbles will go away. It takes about 4 hours to begin to set up. In normal temps of 65-70 degrees it will be dry and recoatable in 8 hours. sand between coats with 220 grit

hope this helps....

Helps, YES but I have a couple of questions. I am thinking of re-finishing the real hard wood floors in my house. A Behr product was used originaly. I have waxed them a couple times with Bruce but its time.

B4 refinish how much sanding? Scuff? Take her down to parade rest?

Do I need to use a sealer B4 finish coat?

What do you recommend for a finish coat? I want gloss but the boss says no

Thanks

[beachwalker]

PNG,

if you have wax on the floors then you have to sand it off and that is no easy job. The wax will load up the paper and make it a slow process. A good professional barrel sander will do the trick.
Even if there was only urethane on the floors you would still need to resand as urethane is a surface coat and the tung is more penetrating. Urethane is stronger on the surface but the beauty of the waterlox is the depth of color and the ability to recoat with ease in the future.
Is the behr urethane ? what kind of wood ?

[PNG]

Originally Posted by beachwalker

PNG,

if you have wax on the floors then you have to sand it off and that is no easy job. The wax will load up the paper and make it a slow process. A good professional barrel sander will do the trick.
Even if there was only urethane on the floors you would still need to resand as urethane is a surface coat and the tung is more penetrating. Urethane is stronger on the surface but the beauty of the waterlox is the depth of color and the ability to recoat with ease in the future.
Is the behr urethane ? what kind of wood ?

The Behr is a natural wood sealer & finish NO 92. I could not find it on their site. A quick read said it has linseed oil in it. Sounds like a great plug sealer!

Wood is Oak.

So I sand it then 1 coat "Marfine" then waterlox or just a few coats of marfine for a semi-gloss?

Thanks, sorry for the hijack

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by capesams

Slip...I was told by someone who helped out Danny p off an on over the years. It was made by Sherman-williams..two part laquer...many moons ago and like all good thing's it's gone from the market...a darter I was give[in the raw] from danny was dipped in this stuff for a sealer I do beleive..tough as nails and a very thin coating.Searching the web has come up dry for this product.

I've used sherwin williams stuff for years, good but expensive.
Try calling Camger Chemical in Norfolk, maybe they have a 2 part laquer.
Like most of the good stuff of the old days, it's gone because it was too hazardous.

[beachwalker]

Sand the oak down to bare wood. If you don't have the machinery ask a finisher if he'll give you a price for the prep only. you will be able to coat the floor yourself no problem.

Since its oak it might only need to machined to 80 grit. maybe 40 and then 80 on the machine and then buff or orbit the floor with hundred after. Make sure the edging doesn't have tons of swirls.

Then do one coat of the sealer (it can be the marine sealer. it will be cheaper by the gallon) You shouldn't have a problem getting 400-550 sq per gallon. Use a 10" lambs wool in a five gallon bucket. Unscrew the handle from the lambswool block and leave it in the remaining sealer. puyllm a plastic garbage bad over the pail overnight.

Let dry overnight and then hand sand with 220. You can even use a pole sander. Vaxumn real good and add more sealer to the bucket. coat again.

repeat until you acheive what looks right. Usually it takes 5 coats but it is acceptable with 4. Be liberal with the application and remember to tip everytjing off and it will look great. I prefer the satin because it is heavier. If you choose satin turn the cans over the night before you will use them. In the morning shake them as norm al and it will be fine. The flattening agent sinks to the bottom of the can if they sit for a whilr and it is really hard to mix with a paint stick. Turned over it releases into the can in about 12 hours or so. If you don't do this you will get flashing with the satin.

oh yea. This stuff is strong. you may want to try the low voc version. your eyes will be burning if you take to long coating. remember to have a plan and stick to it when coating with oils. don't waste time. I use 6" stain brushes so the vutting goes quick
good luck

[KenM]

Thanks for all the help guys. Looks like I need to do some experimenting now.

Ken

[PNG]

BW,

Thanks.

[Raven]

quote cape sams: yes+ yes and wish I could get my hands on some two part laquer as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
because i love a mystery...i'm like Freakin Sherlock Holmes in that...

i fired off an email to sherwin williams and they refered my inquiry about a two part lacquer to the Chemical Coatings Division:

they have sent me all the info on it via a pfd file.

sending you a PM with further instructions.

over red rover
the game is afoot Watson......................

[KenM]

I found this info while searching for Val-oil that might be helpful.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/finish2.html

Ken