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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
05-19-2021, 04:16 PM
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#2
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05-20-2021, 05:45 AM
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#3
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Canceled
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For an actual conversation on critical race theory, I happen to know of a podcast you might be interested in.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/19/o...us-racism.html
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05-20-2021, 01:38 PM
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#4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
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I read the transcript and listened to the podcast. It is a conversation around CRT and a disclaimer of what it is not, But it is not a substantial description of what it is. Nor is it even a resounding affirmation of it. They have a general agreement that the theory as propounded in the 1970's was interesting and somewhat useful, but the panelists don't agree that the current iteration of CRT as it is being used is the same as the original. McWhorter says that it was an interesting idea that transmogrified into something that's gone over the rails.
I tried viewing a video by Kimberle Crenshaw, one of the scholars who expound the theory, but her style couldn't hold my attention.
The video I posted just before your post deals with the impact on minorities other than Black. CRT, at least the current version, seems to deal with black victimhood of white supremacy as a systemic problem. But Asians somehow manage to thrive in spite of the supposed systemic barriers against non-whites.
Last edited by detbuch; 05-20-2021 at 02:49 PM..
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06-23-2021, 08:38 AM
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#5
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09-13-2021, 11:44 AM
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#6
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One of the reasons why looking at how race affects us all is important
America has a death problem.
No, I’m not just talking about the past year and a half, during which COVID-19 deaths per capita in the United States outpaced those in similarly rich countries, such as Canada, Japan, and France. And I’m not just talking about the past decade, during which drug overdoses skyrocketed in the U.S., creating a social epidemic of what are often called “deaths of despair.”
I’m talking about the past 30 years. Before the 1990s, average life expectancy in the U.S. was not much different than it was in Germany, the United Kingdom, or France. But since the 1990s, American life spans started falling significantly behind those in similarly wealthy European countries.
According to a new working paper released by the National Bureau of Economic Research, Americans now die earlier than their European counterparts, no matter what age you’re looking at. Compared with Europeans, American babies are more likely to die before they turn 5, American teens are more likely to die before they turn 20, and American adults are more likely to die before they turn 65. At every age, living in the United States carries a higher risk of mortality. This is America’s unsung death penalty, and it adds up. Average life expectancy surged above 80 years old in just about every Western European country in the 2010s, including Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Germany, the U.K., Denmark, and Switzerland. In the U.S., by contrast, the average life span has never exceeded 79—and now it’s just taken a historic tumble.
Why is the U.S. so much worse than other developed countries at performing the most basic function of civilization: keeping people alive?
“Europe has better life outcomes than the United States across the board, for white and Black people, in high-poverty areas and low-poverty areas,” Hannes Schwandt, a Northwestern University professor who co-wrote the paper, told me. “It’s important that we collect this data, so that people can ask the right questions, but the data alone does not tell us what the cause of this longevity gap is.”
Finding a straightforward explanation is hard, because there are so many differences between life in the U.S. and Europe. Americans are more likely to kill one another with guns, in large part because Americans have more guns than residents of other countries do. Americans die more from car accidents, not because our fatality rate per mile driven is unusually high but because we simply drive so much more than people in other countries. Americans also have higher rates of death from infectious disease and pregnancy complications. But what has that got to do with guns, or commuting?
By collecting data on American life spans by ethnicity and by income at the county level—and by comparing them with those of European countries, locality by locality—Schwandt and the other researchers made three important findings.
First, Europe’s mortality rates are shockingly similar between rich and poor communities. Residents of the poorest parts of France live about as long as people in the rich areas around Paris do. “Health improvements among infants, children, and youth have been disseminated within European countries in a way that includes even the poorest areas,” the paper’s authors write.
But in the U.S., which has the highest poverty and inequality of just about any country in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, where you live is much more likely to determine when you’ll die. Infants in the U.S. are considerably more likely to die in the poorest counties than in the richest counties, and this is true for both Black and white babies. Black teenagers in the poorest U.S. areas are roughly twice as likely to die before they turn 20, compared with those in the richest U.S. counties. In Europe, by contrast, the mortality rate for teenagers in the richest and poorest areas is exactly the same—12 deaths per 100,000. In America, the problem is not just that poverty is higher; it’s that the effect of poverty on longevity is greater too.
Second, even rich Europeans are outliving rich Americans. “There is an American view that egalitarian societies have more equality, but it’s all one big mediocre middle, whereas the best outcomes in the U.S. are the best outcomes in the world,” Schwandt said. But this just doesn’t seem to be the case for longevity. White Americans living in the richest 5 percent of counties still die earlier than Europeans in similarly low-poverty areas; life spans for Black Americans were shorter still. (The study did not examine other American racial groups.) “It says something negative about the overall health system of the United States that even after we grouped counties by poverty and looked at the richest 10th percentile, and even the richest fifth percentile, we still saw this longevity gap between Americans and Europeans,” he added. In fact, Europeans in extremely impoverished areas seem to live longer than Black or white Americans in the richest 10 percent of counties.
Third, Americans have a lot to learn about a surprising success story in U.S. longevity. In the three decades before COVID-19, average life spans for Black Americans surged, in rich and poor areas and across all ages. As a result, the Black-white life-expectancy gap decreased by almost half, from seven years to 3.6 years. “This is a really important story that we ought to move to the forefront of public debate,” Schwandt said. “What happened here? And how do we continue this improvement and learn from it?”
One explanation begins with science and technology. Researchers found that nothing played bigger roles in reducing mortality than improvements in treating cardiovascular disease and cancer. New drugs and therapies for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and various treatable cancers are adding years or decades to the lives of millions of Americans of all ethnicities.
Policy also plays a starring role. Schwandt credits the Medicaid expansion in the 1990s, which covered pregnant women and children and likely improved Black Americans’ access to medical treatments. He cites the expansion of the earned-income tax credit and other financial assistance, which have gradually reduced poverty. He also points to reductions in air pollution. “Black Americans have been more likely than white Americans to live in more-polluted areas,” he said. But air pollution has declined more than 70 percent since the 1970s, according to the EPA, and most of that decline happened during the 30-year period of this mortality research.
Other factors that have reduced the Black-white life-expectancy gap include the increase in deaths of despair, which disproportionately kill white Americans, and—up until 2018—a decline in homicides, which disproportionately kill Black Americans. (The recent rise in homicides, along with the disproportionate number of nonwhite Americans who have died of COVID-19, will likely reduce Black life spans.)
Even then, Black infants in high-poverty U.S. counties are three times more likely to die before the age of 5 than white infants in low-poverty counties. But Schwandt insists that highlighting our progress is important in helping us solve the larger American death problem. “We are wired to care more about bad news than about good news,” he said. “When life expectancy rises slightly, nobody cares. But when life expectancy declines, suddenly we’re up in arms. I think that’s a tragedy, because to improve the health and well-being of our populations, and especially of our disadvantaged populations, we have to give attention to positive achievements so that we can learn from them.”
We’re a long way from a complete understanding of the American mortality penalty. But these three facts—the superior outcomes of European countries with lower poverty and universal insurance, the equality of European life spans between rich and poor areas, and the decline of the Black-white longevity gap in America coinciding with greater insurance protection and anti-poverty spending—all point to the same conclusion: Our lives and our life spans are more interconnected than you might think.
For decades, U.S. politicians on the right have resisted calls for income redistribution and universal insurance under the theory that inequality was a fair price to pay for freedom. But now we know that the price of inequality is paid in early death—for Americans of all races, ages, and income levels. With or without a pandemic, when it comes to keeping Americans alive, we really are all in this together.
Derek Thompson is a staff writer at The Atlantic, where he writes about economics, technology, and the media.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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09-13-2021, 12:48 PM
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#7
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
One of the reasons why looking at how race affects us all is important
America has a death problem.
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Critical Race Theory is going to solve America's death problem?
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09-13-2021, 01:46 PM
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#8
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Canceled
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You have a complete misconception of what critical race theory is
How surprising
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09-13-2021, 02:06 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
You have a complete misconception of what critical race theory is
How surprising
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So Critical Race Theory is not going to solve our death problem?
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09-13-2021, 02:16 PM
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#10
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
So Critical Race Theory is not going to solve our death problem?
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It's the Hair-Restoring, Hemorhoid-soothing, life-prolonging miracle elixir we've been waiting for.
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Last edited by The Dad Fisherman; 09-13-2021 at 03:05 PM..
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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09-13-2021, 02:22 PM
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#11
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Canceled
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
So Critical Race Theory is not going to solve our death problem?
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Just like in the rest of life, only propaganda and gaslighting provide a simple, elegant and incorrect solution to a problem.
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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09-13-2021, 02:54 PM
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#12
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Just like in the rest of life, only propaganda and gaslighting provide a simple, elegant and incorrect solution to a problem.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Since the subject of this thread is Critical Race Theory, one might assume that you are suggesting that it is propaganda and gaslighting.
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10-25-2021, 12:39 PM
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#13
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Just like in the rest of life, only propaganda and gaslighting provide a simple, elegant and incorrect solution to a problem.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Critical Race Theory IS gaslighting and propaganda:
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10-25-2021, 01:31 PM
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#14
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Canceled
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Poor starving victim
How The Rise Of White Identity Politics Explains The Fight Over Critical Race Theory
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...l-race-theory/
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10-25-2021, 01:38 PM
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#15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
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do schools teach which political party was on the wrong side of the slavery and segregation issues? i bet not.
if today’s whites are responsible for slavery, why aren’t today’s democrats.
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10-25-2021, 01:55 PM
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#16
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Canceled
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Not a political science student are you?
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10-25-2021, 01:59 PM
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#17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
do schools teach which political party was on the wrong side of the slavery and segregation issues? i bet not.
if today’s whites are responsible for slavery, why aren’t today’s democrats.
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Today, Black Americans are the strongest Democratic constituency and White Southerners are the strongest Republican group—but it used to be the other way around. The usual story places 1960s civil rights policymaking at the center of the switch, but an important prior history in the North and the South made it possible. Keneshia Grant finds that the Great Migration north changed the Democratic Party because Black voters became pivotal in Democratic cities like New York, Chicago, and Detroit, leading politicians to respond, including new Black elected officials. Boris Heersink finds that Southern Republican state parties became battles between racially mixed and lily-white factions, mostly for control of patronage due to national convention influence. The lily-white takeovers enabled early Republican gains in the South. These trends predated national civil rights policymaking and help explain how we reached today’s divided regional and racial politics.
https://www.niskanencenter.org/the-r...racial-switch/
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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10-25-2021, 02:00 PM
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#18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Not a political science student are you?
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enough to know which party fought for slavery, fought for segregation, fights against school choice, and is in charge of the majority of our large urban cities, which have seen a Holocaust of fatherlessness after 50 years of one-party rule. oh, the same party which refused to celebrate lowest black unemployment ever, at Trumps state of the union.
a white kid who’s a descendent of John Brown, owes something because of collective guilt over slavery? makes all kinds of sense
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Last edited by Jim in CT; 10-25-2021 at 02:06 PM..
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10-25-2021, 02:09 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Poor starving victim
I didn't realize that I was starving. I don't feel like I am. Not losing any weight. Bur if you say so, it must be true.
Thanks for telling me. I'll tell Biden, and, for sure, he'll see to it that I get some food. I have noticed that my food prices have gone up quite a bit. And for everything else too. I'm sure he's on it. We're good.
How The Rise Of White Identity Politics Explains The Fight Over Critical Race Theory
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...l-race-theory/
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The "critical difference between my video and your article re CRT is that my video analyzes in detail various aspects of CRT but your article doesn't. Barely talks about it at all. Your article is, like CRT--gaslighting.
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10-25-2021, 02:58 PM
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#20
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Canceled
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
enough to know which party fought for slavery, fought for segregation, fights against school choice, and is in charge of the majority of our large urban cities, which have seen a Holocaust of fatherlessness after 50 years of one-party rule. oh, the same party which refused to celebrate lowest black unemployment ever, at Trumps state of the union.
a white kid who’s a descendent of John Brown, owes something because of collective guilt over slavery? makes all kinds of sense
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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The anti-CRT bills, threats, & protests copy almost verbatim the racist language of Massive Resistance, Citizens Councils, & the Klan, even down to the red-baiting.
Impressive
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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10-25-2021, 03:31 PM
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#21
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
The anti-CRT bills, threats, & protests copy almost verbatim the racist language of Massive Resistance, Citizens Councils, & the Klan, even down to the red-baiting.
Impressive
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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There you go again with analysis by comparisons--actually, not even analysis. Your look at this other shiny object methodology is, here's a comparison for you, your methodology is like a sort of gaslighting.
Actually it is a form of gaslighting. You try to convince us by deflecting to something else in order to convince us that what is obvious actual analysis as in my video is not true.
My video is actually an analysis of CRT, not a deflection to another subject. Go ahead and deal with the content of the video . . . if you can.
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10-25-2021, 03:35 PM
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#22
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
You have a complete misconception of what critical race theory is
How surprising
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I heard Condoleeza talking about CRT recently....but you probably know much more about education, academia, racism and even more about being black than she does ![Smilie](http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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10-25-2021, 03:38 PM
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#23
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
Go ahead and deal with the content of the video . . . if you can.
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every time I think pete can't become more unhinged...he impresses me
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10-25-2021, 04:37 PM
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#24
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Registered User
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Posts: 20,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
I heard Condoleeza talking about CRT recently....but you probably know much more about education, academia, racism and even more about being black than she does ![Smilie](http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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msnbc host today said Rice is just a mouthpiece for white supremacy. Nice!
let’s force kids to learn everything about slavery and segregation, except that it was the democrats who fought to keep those institutions. that part we keep secret.
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10-25-2021, 05:01 PM
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#25
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Registered User
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Location: RI
Posts: 21,182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
let’s force kids to learn everything about slavery and segregation, except that it was the democrats who fought to keep those institutions. that part we keep secret.
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If you keep saying this my head is going to explode. I don't believe you're an actuarial if you are really this dense.
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10-25-2021, 06:14 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
If you keep saying this my head is going to explode. I don't believe you're an actuarial if you are really this dense.
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so it wasn’t the democrats who fought for slavery and segregation, who oppose school
choice, and created modern day plantations in our cities?
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10-25-2021, 06:46 PM
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#27
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Canceled
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Location: vt
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Let’s see, in the full 116th Congress, the overwhelming majority of racial and ethnic nonwhite members are Democrats (90%), while just 10% are Republicans.
I guess the rest didn’t get your memo
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10-25-2021, 07:52 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
If you keep saying this my head is going to explode. I don't believe you're an actuarial if you are really this dense.
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Did you refer to Jim as “an actuarial” and then call him dense?
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Last edited by scottw; 10-26-2021 at 02:54 AM..
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10-25-2021, 08:01 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Let’s see, in the full 116th Congress, the overwhelming majority of racial and ethnic nonwhite members are Democrats (90%), while just 10% are Republicans.
I guess the rest didn’t get your memo
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not what i asked
which party fought for slavery, segregation, against school
choice?
i’m well aware of how blacks vote.
any chance you can just answer
my question?
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10-26-2021, 01:05 AM
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#30
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Canceled
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
not what i asked
which party fought for slavery, segregation, against school
choice?
i’m well aware of how blacks vote.
any chance you can just answer
my question?
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I’ve answered your question plenty of times
It’s pretty simple to find how the parties flipped sides on race in the past century
You can ignore history but can’t rewrite it
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
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