Is Trump the leader of the GOP or it’s downfall

[Got Stripers]

So I’m curious of the right leaning posters on this board, how many are in that 70% of republicans group who still believe the big lie? How many of you feel Trump cost the GOP three key states with his action and rhetoric? How many think this guy is good for the party at this point? How many think Trump still ranting about a stollen election, even going so far now to suggest the GOP in GA would be better off voting for Abrahms because Kemp wouldn’t help fudge the results? How many of you would prefer the GOP run someone else in 24?

[Jim in CT]

a a great question, sincerely.

I think Trump is neither. Not the leader, not the downfall. He was an amazing person, an unbelievable jerk ( well covered) who nonetheless implemented policies which a record. umber of americans claimed made them better off ( which liberals are desperate to avoid talking about.).

after 8 years of obama, the democrats held fewer elected offices than at any time since Civil War reconstruction.

for gods sake the gop has 50 senators, a razor thin minority in the house, and a majority of governorships and state legislatures. you call that a fringe party? the gop is fine.

I don’t believe the election was stolen. I think he got creamed.

There wasn’t another human being who could have defeated Hilary Clinton, nobody. And that win, allowed him to change/save the supreme court to the conservative mindset, That was a gift from God for conservatives.

Conservatives are way better off right now, than we’d be if Jeb Bush won the 2016 nomination and got clobbered by Hilary and she put three judges on SCOTUS. Not even close. i can’t see how youd make the case that the gop would be better off right now, had Hilary won the general
in 2016.

But he needs to not run again, for sure. That would be very bad for the GOP. We don’t need his shock value anymore. We did in 2016 to expose things that wouldn’t have been exposed otherwise. But we don’t anymore.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

So I’m curious of the right leaning posters on this board, how many are in that 70% of republicans group who still believe the big lie? How many of you feel Trump cost the GOP three key states with his action and rhetoric? How many think this guy is good for the party at this point? How many think Trump still ranting about a stollen election, even going so far now to suggest the GOP in GA would be better off voting for Abrahms because Kemp wouldn’t help fudge the results? How many of you would prefer the GOP run someone else in 24?

Trump who?
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[Pete F.]

From the WSJ

The Facts on Trump’s Fraud Letter
His 2020 monomania is news, and it reflects on his fitness for 2024.


The progressive parsons of the press are aflutter that we published a letter to the editor Thursday from former President Trump, objecting to our editorial pointing out that he lost Pennsylvania last year by 80,555 votes. We trust our readers to make up their own minds about his statement. And we think it’s news when an ex-President who may run in 2024 wrote what he did, even if (or perhaps especially if) his claims are bananas.

Mr. Trump’s letter is his familiar barrage, with 20 bullet points about alleged irregularities that he says prove “the election was rigged.” It’s difficult to respond to everything, and the asymmetry is part of the former President’s strategy. He tosses off enough unsourced numbers in 30 seconds to keep a fact-checker busy for 30 days. When one claim is refuted, Mr. Trump is back with two more.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fac...on-11635449578

[wdmso]

I am more concerned with the changes in election law on stripping power from election officials and Secretary of states and giving them to partisan legislature
after seeing the Turn out from the 2020 election with stuff like this

Former President Donald J. Trump on Monday took aim at a Georgia official he considers one of his biggest enemies: Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, who refused Mr. Trump’s pressure to overturn the state’s election results last year.

By endorsing Jody Hice, a Republican congressman, in his bid to unseat Mr. Raffensperger, the former president made his most prominent effort yet to try to punish elected officials who he believes have crossed him. Mr. Raffensperger, a Republican, is among the top targets for Mr. Trump, along with the state’s governor, Brian Kemp.

Trump endorses ‘big lie’ proponents for state election posts
Swing state by swing state, former President Donald Trump is trying to get people who tried to overturn the 2020 election chosen to be in charge of the 2024 election.

and what happen jan 6th

and for Republican to look the other way they deserve never to hold the office of POTUS again

but only gerrymandering and the electoral college is saving them.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

but only gerrymandering and the electoral college is saving them.

the senate is tied 50-50, those are statewide races. please tell us how gerrymandering or the electoral college help
republicans won senate seats.

the gop also controls a majority of governorships, which are statewide races. please tell us how gerrymandering or the electoral college help republicans win governorships.

if there was no electoral college, republicans would
obviously campaign very differently. so there’s no way of knowing what would have happened if there were no electoral college. it’s not the GOPs fault that they do a better job of responding to the mathematical
realities of the electoral
college, then democrats. hilary chose to stay out of Wisconsin. that’s her fault, not trumps fault. someone should
tell the democrats that appealing to
more and more californians and new yorkers at the expense of voters in swing states, isn’t a great play.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

but only gerrymandering and the electoral college is saving them.

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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

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because they’re evil TDF, they don’t care about anyone at all. thats why gerrymandering and the EC are the only reasons why republicans are relevant, even though there are other posts that say the gop is already dead so not relevant.

gerrymandering and the EC are why a reliably blue state like VA, is so closely contested in its governor race.

here’s some truth wayne. a record number of americans said they were better off after 4 years of trump, and they said that during a pandemic. No president ever scored that high in gallops poll. during a pandemic when everything was closed.

there’s only one conclusion to draw from that, combined with trump getting creamed at red-election.

here it is ( heads up, you won’t like it). Americans liked Trumps policies. They hated his antics. This is precisely why the left is so completely terrified of popular republicans who will advocate for similar ( popular) policies, but without the stupid antics. The left knows they can’t attack, say, Ron Desantis the way they relentlessly smeared Trump. With a guy like Desantis ( or Tom Cotton or Nikki Haley or Tim Scott), america is more likely to judge them honestly based on the effect of their policies. that kind of rational judgment is the very last thing democrats want to happen. Which is why they need crises ( the housing collapse in 2008, covid in 2920, why they constantly pit us against each other), they NEED crisis and fear and hate, to distract americans away from the fact that america is still a center right country. that might be the case in a few years, but it’s true today.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

because they’re evil TDF, they don’t care about anyone at all. thats why gerrymandering and the EC are the only reasons why republicans are relevant, even though there are other posts that say the gop is already dead so not relevant.

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the party of love and tolerance absolutely collectively despises anyone that dares to disagree with them on any issue...it pretty remarkable to watch them slide into a cult of darkness...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

the party of love and tolerance absolutely collectively despises anyone that dares to disagree with them on any issue...it pretty remarkable to watch them slide into a cult of darkness...

all you need to know about them, is how dishonestly they frame issues. best example is abortion.

Pro life people are pro life, because they have empathy for the baby. that’s it, it’s that simple. so in an honest debate, a pro abortion person would say “the pro life position is based on empathy for the baby. i believe it’s mis-placed empathy, but empathy nonetheless.”

i have never, not once, not ever, heard any liberal describe the pro life position this way. instead we hate women, want to enslave women, want them to be nothing more than baby incubators.

this is what they do on most issues. if you are opposed to single
payer healthcare, you hate sick people. if you support a southern border that’s actually a border, you hate latinos. if you are kooky enough to feel that people
with wee wees should pee in the men’s room, you are a homophobe. if you think there are limits to how much the government should
spend, you hate poor people. if you’re against reparations, you hate blacks. and on and on we go.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i have never, not once, not ever, heard any liberal describe the pro life position this way. instead we hate women, want to enslave women, want them to be nothing more than baby incubators.

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ummmm....you aren't allowed to say "women" anymore particularly as it refers to bearing children because we now know that men can, in fact, have babies...we are now referring to "women" as "people with vaginas"....as it is terribly offensive to women with penises when we generally refer to what we formerly knew as "women" as women.......

[The Dad Fisherman]

Birthing Person
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Birthing Person
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and unibaby

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

the senate is tied 50-50, those are statewide races. please tell us how gerrymandering or the electoral college help
republicans won senate seats.







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Your willfully blind

North dakota 762,062 people Senate seats 2 south dakota 884,659 Senate seats 2 for a total of 4

California 39.51 million Senate seats 2

republicans have 50 Senate seats but represent 40 million less people

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

here’s some truth wayne. a record number of americans said they were better off after 4 years of trump, and they said that during a pandemic. No president ever scored that high in gallops poll. during a pandemic when everything was closed.



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yes Jim his approval ratings on the economy in the final pre-election poll, Trump fares relatively well—but not on his overall rating,"

And yet he still lost the election How could that Be ?

because you like to present Trump as a savior selectivity while implying how great he was




I thought this was about the GOP downfall not a Trump pep rally

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Your willfully blind

You are = You’re 👀
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

all you need to know about them, is how dishonestly they frame issues. best example is abortion.

Pro life people are pro life, because they have empathy for the baby. that’s it, it’s that simple. so in an honest debate, a pro abortion person would say “the pro life position is based on empathy for the baby. i believe it’s mis-placed empathy, but empathy nonetheless.”

i have never, not once, not ever, heard any liberal describe the pro life position this way. instead we hate women, want to enslave women, want them to be nothing more than baby incubators.

this is what they do on most issues. if you are opposed to single
payer healthcare, you hate sick people. if you support a southern border that’s actually a border, you hate latinos. if you are kooky enough to feel that people
with wee wees should pee in the men’s room, you are a homophobe. if you think there are limits to how much the government should
spend, you hate poor people. if you’re against reparations, you hate blacks. and on and on we go.
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Poor victim, your tribe wants to be able to define the only acceptable reason to disagree with you and claim that others say you hate.

“Conservatives” want women to carry any and all pregnancies to term, but here are the things they do not want:

1/ To include birth control in insurance plans or give it away
2/ To pay for prenatal care for anyone else
3/ To expand Medicaid for more women and children…
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Your willfully blind

North dakota 762,062 people Senate seats 2 south dakota 884,659 Senate seats 2 for a total of 4

California 39.51 million Senate seats 2

republicans have 50 Senate seats but represent 40 million less people

i’m fully aware of what you posted. i totally agree that the 50 gop senators represent fewer people, and therefore the electoral math favors republicans in presidential
elections.

now, you said gerrymandering and the electoral college is all that keeps the gop relevant. please explain how the gerrymandering and electoral college helps the gop win senate races or governorships, BOTH OF WHICH ARE STATEWIDE RACES?

you can’t comment on this. nor can you comment on the fact that according to the Gallup poll
done every 4 years, more americans said they were better off after 4 years of trump than after 4 years of any president Gallup has polled. i keep posting that, and all of the lefties pretend they didn’t read it, because you have no response.

i can accept all facts you post, even the ones i don’t like. you cannot ever respond to anything that doesn’t favor liberalism. Why is that?

Most Americans liked trump’s
policies, but they hated trump. I also fall into both of those categories. I will not deny that trump was an awful human being. but you’ll deny ( more accurately, ignore) that americans liked his policies.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Poor victim, your tribe wants to be able to define the only acceptable reason to disagree with you and claim that others say you hate.

“Conservatives” want women to carry any and all pregnancies to term, but here are the things they do not want:

1/ To include birth control in insurance plans or give it away
2/ To pay for prenatal care for anyone else
3/ To expand Medicaid for more women and children…
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i never said i’m a victim. i said ( and showed) that liberals are constantly dishonest about framing the issues.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i never said i’m a victim. i said ( and showed) that liberals are constantly dishonest about framing the issues.
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No, you’ve claimed
Meanwhile as you rant about the unborn and how you’re the great and magnificent empath, when Joe Biden met with Pope John Paul II in 1980 for 45 minutes, it was described as unusually long — and he himself was surprised he got that much time as the pope waved off aides trying to end the meeting.

President Biden the most recent time met with Pope Francis for 90 minutes.

Perhaps your Pope sees other issues as more important to humanity
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete

President Biden the most recent time met with Pope Francis for 90 minutes.

Perhaps your Pope sees other issues as more important to humanity

[size=1

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Perhaps Biden kept falling asleep or wandering off or babbling nonsensically, all of which he tends to do, creating many delays in the negotiations ….
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i never said i’m a victim. i said ( and showed) that liberals are constantly dishonest about framing the issues.
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Pete is a remarkably bitter soul. It’s not healthy
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

No, you’ve claimed
Meanwhile as you rant about the unborn and how you’re the great and magnificent empath, when Joe Biden met with Pope John Paul II in 1980 for 45 minutes, it was described as unusually long — and he himself was surprised he got that much time as the pope waved off aides trying to end the meeting.

President Biden the most recent time met with Pope Francis for 90 minutes.

Perhaps your Pope sees other issues as more important to humanity
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it wasn’t a post about the merits of
abortion, pete, it was an example of
how your side frames issues so dishonestly. they do that, because the know that an honest framing of the issue, paints them in a negative light. they do this in most of the big issues, always demonizing the other sideS.

i’m sure you’re very knowledgeable about catholicism pete.


the catholic faith has some beliefs which are binding ( believing jesus is the son of God), and some which are non binding ( that you should say the rosary).

being opposed to abortion, is a binding belief. it’s not optional. supporting abortion while claiming to be catholic is about as sincere as Joey Chestnul claiming to be a vegan.

it’s what sleazeball politicians do who want the catholic vote, and they want the pro choice vote. it’s as unprincipled as it gets, a classic case of wanting to have your cake
and eating it too. it’s the act of a whore, completely devoid of
any principles except wanting to win.


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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

it wasn’t a post about the merits of
abortion, pete, it was an example of
how your side frames issues so dishonestly. they do that, because the know that an honest framing of the issue, paints them in a negative light. they do this in most of the big issues, always demonizing the other sideS.

i’m sure you’re very knowledgeable about catholicism pete.


the catholic faith has some beliefs which are binding ( believing jesus is the son of God), and some which are non binding ( that you should say the rosary).

being opposed to abortion, is a binding belief. it’s not optional. supporting abortion while claiming to be catholic is about as sincere as Joey Chestnul claiming to be a vegan.

it’s what sleazeball politicians do who want the catholic vote, and they want the pro choice vote. it’s as unprincipled as it gets, a classic case of wanting to have your cake
and eating it too. it’s the act of a whore, completely devoid of
any principles except wanting to win.


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For hundreds of years the Catholic Church allowed abortion.

This hardline stance on abortion lasted only three years. In 1591 the new Pope Gregory XIV reversed the decision, declaring abortion to only be homicide if it took place after ensoulment, which he determined took place 166 days into a pregnancy, or well over halfway through the second trimester. This decision lasted for 278 years until Pope Pius IX reversed the decision yet again in 1869 and made abortion after conception a sin that automatically excommunicated those involved in its procurement from the Catholic Church.

No it’s not being a whore, it’s realizing that what you believe is not the same as others and not claiming that yours trumps others.

The majority of Catholics don’t agree with you on abortion, unless they’ve recently flip flopped like the former guy
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[wdmso]

Ireland votes by landslide to legalise abortion

The scale of the victory makes it almost impossible for opponents to challenge the laws that the government must now pass, which are expected to allow abortion on request up to 12 weeks

While conservatives want to go backwards.. because they can’t win on ideas they will keep pressing cultural issues instead . We shall not be replaced
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Ireland votes by landslide to legalise abortion

The scale of the victory makes it almost impossible for opponents to challenge the laws that the government must now pass, which are expected to allow abortion on request up to 12 weeks

While conservatives want to go backwards.. because they can’t win on ideas they will keep pressing cultural issues instead . We shall not be replaced
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abortion=forward? you might have to explain that position to the unborn someday. if that happens, i’d rather be in my shoes than your shoes.

“conservatives can’t win on ideas.”

for the tenth time, a record number of americans said they were better off after 4 years of trump, more than ever said they were better off after 4?years of any other president.

republicans frequently win on ideas in america. liberals
make it about anything other than ideas ( usually about hating everyone who isn’t like you).
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

abortion=forward? you might have to explain that position to the unborn someday. if that happens, i’d rather be in my shoes than your shoes.

“conservatives can’t win on ideas.”

for the tenth time, a record number of americans said they were better off after 4 years of trump, more than ever said they were better off after 4?years of any other president.

republicans frequently win on ideas in america. liberals
make it about anything other than ideas ( usually about hating everyone who isn’t like you).
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Here’s the thing that you and Trump missed.
It is an incredibly damning indictment of Trump personally that, in a country where a majority of the people believe they are better off than they were four years ago, he lost so badly in his bid for a second term.

Americans by far, in historic numbers said go away.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here’s the thing that you and Trump missed.
It is an incredibly damning indictment of Trump personally that, in a country where a majority of the people believe they are better off than they were four years ago, he lost so badly in his bid for a second term.

Americans by far, in historic numbers said go away.
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i didn’t miss that trump lost. he got creamed.

but that poll showed what it showed. which tells me americans liked his policies, but hated him personally. what other interpretation so there pete?

this is exactly why you’re all scared sh*tless of someone likel Desantis. because he will advocate for trumps policies, while not making it so easy for the media to atta on his ethics.

i can immediately admit what trump’s defeat means. you can’t admit what that pill
means.

pete, the pill was taken at the height of the pandemic, and still a record number of americans said that were better off after 4 years of trump.

rbi’s is exactly why republicans need to get the attention away from fake claims of racism, and focus the debate in actual
ideas, what works and what doesn’t.

we’re not a country that’s meaningfully liberal. not even close. we’re probably moving that way, but not there today. this is why the media does t spend any time talking about what each side actually believes. that’s not a winning strategy for democrats.
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[Pete F.]

DeathSantis killed 40,000 of his citizens, math counts
He’ll catch NYS in the next couple months
But the money……
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

DeathSantis killed 40,000 of his citizens, math counts
He’ll catch NYS in the next couple months
But the money……
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so do Cuomo kill 56,000 of his citizens? or did Fesantis kill all them, too?

until Cuomo got caught harassing women, the left loved him so much, they literally invented awards to give him.

your “math” only matters when you can use it as a club against republicans. that same exact math makes your side look worse.

such a stupid argument. desantis killed them all.
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