Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-02-2010, 02:03 PM   #1
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
2012 cant come fast enough

Obama holding postelection news conference
November 2, 2010
The White House said Tuesday that Obama will take reporters' questions Wednesday at 1 p.m. in the East Room.

It'll be the first chance for Obama to react to what are widely forecast to be major Democratic losses in the midterm elections, including the possible Republican capture of one or both houses of Congress.


Will this guy give it a break? Does he have to be on TV every day? Hes just like the popular guy at work thats always blabbing at meetings but you wonder "what has that guy ever done?" Its been 2 yrs of campaigning...he'll come on and say that he wants to work with the republicans in the house, that we cant do notthing for 2 yrs, that we need to work for the american people. All the while just campaigning for 2012. Laying the foundation for blame. My President come on tv when you have SOMETHING to tell us. SOMETHING other than politics. Spend less time crafting messages and more time developing solutions. Wedsnesday, you should be calling all the newly elected congressmen to the WH to welcome them, roll up your sleeves and GET TO WORK! We;re tired of all the talking!

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 02:31 PM   #2
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,609
RIJIMMY, from your lips to Gid's ears, 2012 cannot come fast enough.

Obama's megalomania wikll ensure that he misreads today's result. He will not see this as a rejection of his liberal agenda from a center-right populace, rather he'll conclude that we're simply too stupid to be able to comprehend the brilliance of his accomplishments.

After all, according to him, everyone who disagrees with him is an irrational boob. To quote Obama...""facts and science and argument does not seem to be winning the day all the time...because we're hard-wired not to always think clearly when we're scared. And the country is scared." Translation...anyone who disagrees with Obama is irrational. This, from the guy who ordained himself as the one who would descend from the heavens and unite as all.

Personally, I just hope Palin doesn't run. My fear is that she would very possibly win the primary, but that she's not electable in the general election. Lots of good prospects out there...Bobby Jindal, Tim Pawlenty, David Patreus (God I wish he'd run), Mike Pence, Newt Gingrich (who would be my first choice).
Jim in CT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 02:50 PM   #3
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 18,283
There's so little in common between Newt and Petreus I'm not sure how you can even utter them in the same sentence.

Newt is a smart guy but a slimeball with no shame. He doesn't have a chance in a Presidential election.

The General might just do it, but I'd wager he'd run as a Democrat.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
spence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 03:15 PM   #4
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 32,684
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
The General might just do it, but I'd wager he'd run as a Democrat.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I think he would be pretty moderate but he has got to be sick to his stomach regarding the national level democratic party's handling of Iraq and AFG being far more concerned with Policitcs than the guys on the ground. The few things the Obama Admin has done pro fighting this war have only happened AFTER they were prodded by massive debate started by leaked disgruntlement by the military leadership. It will be even worse with POLITICIAN Donilon replacing Jim Jones for National Security Advisor

They (the Obama Admin) would rather lose the war than lose an election.

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 04:02 PM   #5
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,609
Spence -

"There's so little in common between Newt and Petreus I'm not sure how you can even utter them in the same sentence. "

They are both admitted conservatives who believe that (1) Islamic facism is a grave threat, and (2) the way to defeat that threat isn't to give them a hug and apologize for all our faults, but rather, to bring them to their knees with levels of force that produce "shock and awe".

"Newt is a smart guy "

Agreed. IMHO, he is brilliant, and the most qualified person on the planet for the job. But he's got baggage.

"but a slimeball with no shame. He doesn't have a chance in a Presidential election. "

Bill Clinton was more of a slimeball, but IMHO, a great president who understood that you can't spend more than you've got. Newt is also now a devout Catholic, but I agree, probably not electable.

"The General might just do it, but I'd wager he'd run as a Democrat."

He's an admitted conservative and a registered Republkican. so I'll take that bet. I remember when he gave his plan (what came to be known as "the surge") to Congress. Hilary said to him "General, to believe your plan requires the willful suspension of disbelief". In other words, she called him a liar, and he turned out to be 100% right. Did she apologize? Nope, she became SecState. So again, lack of ethics certainly doesn't preclude one from rising in the ranks of the Democraic party, does it?
Jim in CT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 04:03 PM   #6
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,784
[QUOTE=RIJIMMY;807388]Obama holding postelection news conference
November 2, 2010
The White House said Tuesday that Obama will take reporters' questions Wednesday at 1 p.m. in the East Room.

It'll be the first chance for Obama to react to what are widely forecast to be major Democratic losses in the midterm elections, including the possible Republican capture of one or both houses of Congress.


Will this guy give it a break?




he will give a very rare press conference and then take off in a 40 aircraft fleet with an entourage of 3000 of his closest friends at a cost of 200 million/per day...at least thats what I was just reading...staggering


US to spend $200 mn a day on Obama's Mumbai visitPress Trust of India, Updated: November 02, 2010 21:07 IST

Mumbai: The US would be spending a whopping $200 million (Rs. 900 crore approx) per day on President Barack Obama's visit to the city.

"The huge amount of around $200 million would be spent on security, stay and other aspects of the Presidential visit," a top official of the Maharashtra Government privy to the arrangements for the high-profile visit said.

About 3,000 people including Secret Service agents, US government officials and journalists would accompany the President. Several officials from the White House and US security agencies are already here for the past one week with helicopters, a ship and high-end security instruments
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 04:09 PM   #7
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,609
By the way, Spence, I participated in the surge with the USMC. SWe all knew that Harry Reid, swell patriot that he is, said "the war in Iraq is lost", and if you don't think it demoralizes our guys, and emboldens our enemies, when the Senate majority leader says somehting like that, you're wrong.

I love the Democratic party. Let's look at the line of succession for president.

(1) Obama. Voted to support infanticide as a state senator in IL
(2) Biden. Admitted plagiarist
(3) Nancy Pelosi. "I was never at a meeting when the CIA mentione dwaterboarding". "No, I meant to say I was at the meeting, but I didn't hear that part". "No, I meant to say that I heard that part, but they weren't specific on who they would waterboard". "No, I meant to say..."
(4)until recently, Strom Thurmond (my personal favorite), president pro tempore of the Senate, and an admitted former Wizard of the Klan who regularly used the n word until his death.
(5) Hilary Clinton, who claimed that during a visit to Bosnia, she had to DIVE! into her limo because of sniper fire. Whhen video footage clearly showed that was a lie, her excuse? "I was overtired". Everyone who has ever raised a baby has been overtired, how many then falsely claim to have been shot at?
(6) Timothy Geithner, who doesn't pay his own taxes...

Yessir, that's some list!!!
Jim in CT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 04:20 PM   #8
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 32,684
Blog Entries: 1
Jim - Thank you for your time in the Marines and your service.

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 04:31 PM   #9
Raven
........
iTrader: (0)
 
Raven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,761
Blog Entries: 1
hopefully it's Goodbye Harry
Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 06:08 PM   #10
justplugit
Registered Grandpa
iTrader: (0)
 
justplugit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east coast
Posts: 8,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
Jim - Thank you for your time in the Marines and your service.
A great sacrifice for sure. Thank you.

" Choose Life "
justplugit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 07:32 PM   #11
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 9,652
Jim in CT. thanks for your service. Much respect to you and your brethren. Always support the troops, regardless of politics!

RIJimmy...
Seriously?
You don't expect a response from the white house/?
After 2006 election, remember Bush's press conference where 'It was a thumpin"? (OK, maybe it was the morning after in 2006), but then you would just bitch the Obama should have addressed the country the night of. Were you outraged then?? C'mon Man!

Last edited by RIROCKHOUND; 11-03-2010 at 07:20 AM..

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
RIROCKHOUND is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 07:36 PM   #12
striperman36
Old Guy
iTrader: (0)
 
striperman36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 8,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
Jim - Thank you for your time in the Marines and your service.
I work and support the USMC everyday. I am down at Quantico at least once a month, the Corps is, IMO, the pride of the US Armed Forces.

Semper Fi! and you service is beyond thanks!!
striperman36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 07:40 PM   #13
Raider Ronnie
www.blackhullcharters.com
iTrader: (0)
 
Raider Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: On my boat
Posts: 9,115
Send a message via AIM to Raider Ronnie
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
Obama holding postelection news conference
November 2, 2010
The White House said Tuesday that Obama will take reporters' questions Wednesday at 1 p.m. in the East Room.

It'll be the first chance for Obama to react to what are widely forecast to be major Democratic losses in the midterm elections, including the possible Republican capture of one or both houses of Congress.


Will this guy give it a break? Does he have to be on TV every day? Hes just like the popular guy at work thats always blabbing at meetings but you wonder "what has that guy ever done?" Its been 2 yrs of campaigning...he'll come on and say that he wants to work with the republicans in the house, that we cant do notthing for 2 yrs, that we need to work for the american people. All the while just campaigning for 2012. Laying the foundation for blame. My President come on tv when you have SOMETHING to tell us. SOMETHING other than politics. Spend less time crafting messages and more time developing solutions. Wedsnesday, you should be calling all the newly elected congressmen to the WH to welcome them, roll up your sleeves and GET TO WORK! We;re tired of all the talking!



"Does he have to be on TV every day?"

Seems he's on vacation more than on tv !
Heard on the radio today he's getting ready for another one.
Raider Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 07:44 PM   #14
likwid
lobster = striper bait
iTrader: (0)
 
likwid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Popes Island Performing Arts Center
Posts: 5,869
Send a message via AIM to likwid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie View Post
"Does he have to be on TV every day?"

Seems he's on vacation more than on tv !
Heard on the radio today he's getting ready for another one.
He must be about to start a war then.

Ski Quicks Hole
likwid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 10:49 AM   #15
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
Jim in CT. thanks for your service. Much respect to you and your brethren. Always support the troops, regardless of politics!

RIJimmy...
Seriously?
You don't expect a response from the white house/?
After 2006 election, remember Bush's press conference where 'It was a thumpin"? (OK, maybe it was the morning after in 2006), but then you would just bitch the Obama should have addressed the country the night of. Were you outraged then?? C'mon Man!
Bry - you rarely heard from Bush. Obama is around 24/7 and I dont think its a good thing. This will be another campaign pitch, thats all he does. Its politics and not LEADING. I would LOVE hear him say we need to change course, LOVE to hear him say he needs to compromise. LOVE to hear him say he wants to start by extedning tax breaks, But you wont hear any of that.

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 01:22 PM   #16
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 9,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
Bry - you rarely heard from Bush. Obama is around 24/7 and I dont think its a good thing.
I think if Bush's habit of making up words didn't exist, he would have had more press conferences. he was extremely limited in availability.

Maybe he is out front too much, however, don't get annoyed because he is having a press conference post election, you look, in the words of a RI pol talking to Caprio (after 'Shove-it') like a petulant child :-P

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
RIROCKHOUND is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 02:30 PM   #17
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
uhhh Bry.....hes going to be on 60 minutes this weekend too. Is that too much for ya? Maybe next week Oprah, Daily Show?
NOW do you see what I mean. Hes all about the MESSAGE. He needs to QUIT communicating.

Obama bound for ’60 Minutes’ - On Media: Obama bound for ’60 Minutes’November 03, 2010
Categories:Barack Obama.Obama bound for ’60 Minutes’
President Obama’s next post-shellacking face-to-face with national television audiences will be this Sunday, when do does “60 Minutes,” Marc Ambinder reports.

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 03:53 PM   #18
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 18,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
I think he would be pretty moderate but he has got to be sick to his stomach regarding the national level democratic party's handling of Iraq and AFG being far more concerned with Policitcs than the guys on the ground.
And Bush didn't???

Quote:
The few things the Obama Admin has done pro fighting this war have only happened AFTER they were prodded by massive debate started by leaked disgruntlement by the military leadership. It will be even worse with POLITICIAN Donilon replacing Jim Jones for National Security Advisor
I don't agree at all. Obama has actually given the military a lot of leeway on how they've engaged in AFG. That's not to say there hasn't been meddling by some, but he hasn't held anyone's hands behind their backs.

Quote:
They (the Obama Admin) would rather lose the war than lose an election.
If that was the case he'd have left AFG upon taking office.

-spence
spence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 04:00 PM   #19
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Did Obama order more Drone strikes in his first 6 months in Office than had been ordered in the previous 6 years or something along those lines?

Didn't he also almost immediately start working towards adjusting the military focus from Bush's failed war in Iraq to where the real terrorist threats are in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
JohnnyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 04:02 PM   #20
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 18,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
By the way, Spence, I participated in the surge with the USMC. SWe all knew that Harry Reid, swell patriot that he is, said "the war in Iraq is lost", and if you don't think it demoralizes our guys, and emboldens our enemies, when the Senate majority leader says somehting like that, you're wrong.
Never been a fan of Harry Reid. While I can understand how some would have opposed the Surge at the time, his comments on the subject were pathetic.

To be quite honest, I was riding with a US Marine to a business meeting this morning and we agreed Reid was a douche. He also likes Newt, although didn't put up much of an argument when I trash talked him as a brilliant slime ball.

All that being said, I'd take Reid over Sharon Angle...she's a freak.

Quote:
I love the Democratic party. Let's look at the line of succession for president.

(1) Obama. Voted to support infanticide as a state senator in IL
(2) Biden. Admitted plagiarist
(3) Nancy Pelosi. "I was never at a meeting when the CIA mentione dwaterboarding". "No, I meant to say I was at the meeting, but I didn't hear that part". "No, I meant to say that I heard that part, but they weren't specific on who they would waterboard". "No, I meant to say..."
(4)until recently, Strom Thurmond (my personal favorite), president pro tempore of the Senate, and an admitted former Wizard of the Klan who regularly used the n word until his death.
(5) Hilary Clinton, who claimed that during a visit to Bosnia, she had to DIVE! into her limo because of sniper fire. Whhen video footage clearly showed that was a lie, her excuse? "I was overtired". Everyone who has ever raised a baby has been overtired, how many then falsely claim to have been shot at?
(6) Timothy Geithner, who doesn't pay his own taxes...

Yessir, that's some list!!!
First, let's get your chain of command straight, Obama isn't in the line of succession to be POTUS

Second, Joe Biden wears nice suits and has great style.

Third, water boarding IS torture by nearly any measure. If we employ torture or not isn't the issue, let's just be honest about it.

Fourth, I think you meant Robert Byrd.

Fifth, she's been a pretty good Sec State.

Sixth, who really cares?

-spence
spence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 04:34 PM   #21
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 9,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
uhhh Bry.....hes going to be on 60 minutes this weekend too. Is that too much for ya? Maybe next week Oprah, Daily Show?
I could give a %$%$%$%$ Jim.
All the stuff going on and THIS is what you get up in arms over.

you can admit that your MASS frustration is spilling out and clouding the logic portion of your brain.

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
RIROCKHOUND is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 05:28 PM   #22
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 32,684
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
And Bush didn't???
Bush absolutely effed up. As did Rummy, Cheney, and Bremmer (tool).

Whether or not we should have been there (we shouldn't have but as Powell said, once you break the china you own it), once we were in and once he realized - very late - that we could win or lose he put his chips on win, rather than doing what the politically easiest thing to do was. While everyone else was crying run and not winnable (Reid, Biden, Pelosi, Hillary, and pretty much the entire Dem party - sans Lieberman) he doubled down on Petraeus, our military, strategy, LUCK, and sticking it out.

The surge worked, no doubt helped out by things that changed on the ground, but it worked. No timetable.

Obama campaigned on making AFG the good and necessary fight but he stumbling over ways to get out. If different sources like Woodward's book is to be believed, the entire administration is a mess in its bickering approach to how to handle AFG other than that they want to get out ASAP and put a foolish timetable on it.

Timetable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
I don't agree at all. Obama has actually given the military a lot of leeway on how they've engaged in AFG. That's not to say there hasn't been meddling by some, but he hasn't held anyone's hands behind their backs.
Military thwarted president seeking choice in Afghanistan

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2010, 10:04 PM   #23
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 18,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
Bush absolutely effed up. As did Rummy, Cheney, and Bremmer (tool).
I've read several books on Iraq and they all seem to agree that Bremmer was a tool (never having met the man that's all I have to go by). Bush made the bed in which he slept. Rummy and Cheney had simply eaten so much of their own shyte they thought it was ice cream.

Quote:
Whether or not we should have been there (we shouldn't have but as Powell said, once you break the china you own it), once we were in and once he realized - very late - that we could win or lose he put his chips on win, rather than doing what the politically easiest thing to do was. While everyone else was crying run and not winnable (Reid, Biden, Pelosi, Hillary, and pretty much the entire Dem party - sans Lieberman) he doubled down on Petraeus, our military, strategy, LUCK, and sticking it out.

The surge worked, no doubt helped out by things that changed on the ground, but it worked. No timetable.
But you can't deny that there was a legitimate argument against the Surge given past events. Certainly a lot of the opposition was political or just people simply tired with war...but opposition alone wasn't necessarily demonstrating a lack of will.

Personally I think many just weren't close enough to the situation on the ground to sense the opportunity as the General was. The results from the Surge appear to have been the result of timing, effort and luck. Had the situation changed slightly (i.e. Sunni resistance) I'd think it could have easily failed. I'm thankful that we had all three.

Quote:
Obama campaigned on making AFG the good and necessary fight but he stumbling over ways to get out. If different sources like Woodward's book is to be believed, the entire administration is a mess in its bickering approach to how to handle AFG other than that they want to get out ASAP and put a foolish timetable on it.
Why wouldn't any President desperately seek a way out of the longest war in our countries history?

What the article seems to show is that after all the drama, Obama chose to do what the military was advocating rather than what would appease the democratic (and younger voters) base.

The "timetable" issue is a red herring though. One one hand it gives the edge to the enemy and on the other it motivates local forces to take up the slack. I call it a wash...

-spence
spence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 06:41 AM   #24
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
I've read several books on Iraq and they all seem to agree that Bremmer was a tool (never having met the man that's all I have to go by). Bush made the bed in which he slept. Rummy and Cheney had simply eaten so much of their own shyte they thought it was ice cream.


But you can't deny that there was a legitimate argument against the Surge given past events. Certainly a lot of the opposition was political or just people simply tired with war...but opposition alone wasn't necessarily demonstrating a lack of will.

Personally I think many just weren't close enough to the situation on the ground to sense the opportunity as the General was. The results from the Surge appear to have been the result of timing, effort and luck. Had the situation changed slightly (i.e. Sunni resistance) I'd think it could have easily failed. I'm thankful that we had all three.


Why wouldn't any President desperately seek a way out of the longest war in our countries history?

What the article seems to show is that after all the drama, Obama chose to do what the military was advocating rather than what would appease the democratic (and younger voters) base.

The "timetable" issue is a red herring though. One one hand it gives the edge to the enemy and on the other it motivates local forces to take up the slack. I call it a wash...

-spence
I've figured out where Spence goes when he's gone for a while
REVISIONIST HISTORY CONFERENCES

Education
Professor Exposes Federally Funded ‘Revisionist’ History
Conference

Posted on November 1, 2010
at 4:28pm by Meredith Jessup

Pearl Harbor, 1941

In July, the National Endowment for the Humanities sponsored a workshop on “History and Commemoration: The Legacies of the Pacific War in WWII” for college professors in Hawaii. Professor Penelope Blake, a veteran professor of Humanities at Rock Valley College in Rockford, Ill., was one of 25 American scholars chosen to attend the workshop, but was reportedly disheartened to find the conference “driven by an overt political bias and a blatant anti-American agenda.”

Professor Blake is now reportedly calling on Congress to implement better oversight over the NEH. In a letter addressed directly to her Illinois congressman, Rep. Don Manzullo, Blake documents conference details and asks him to vote against NEH funding for future events. According to PowerLine, copies of the letter have also been delivered to members of the NEH council and NEH chair Jim Leach.

Full letter follows (emphases hers):

Dear Congressman Manzullo:

As one of twenty-five American scholars chosen to participate in the recent National Endowment for the Humanities Summer Workshop, “History and Commemoration: Legacies of the Pacific War in WWII,” at the University of Hawaii, East-West Center, I am writing to ask you to vote against approval of 2011 funding for future workshops until the NEH can account for the violation of its stated objective to foster “a mutual respect for the diverse beliefs and values of all persons and groups” (NEH Budget Request, 2011).

In my thirty years as a professor in upper education, I have never witnessed nor participated in a more extremist, agenda-driven, revisionist conference,
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 06:59 AM   #25
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
I could give a %$%$%$%$ Jim.
All the stuff going on and THIS is what you get up in arms over.

you can admit that your MASS frustration is spilling out and clouding the logic portion of your brain.
I know its out of character for me to be critical of Obama. But.....my point is that the majority of the country thinks he is doing the wrong things. He thinks he needs to get his message across. The fact that he doenst recognize this is a big problem!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 07:03 AM   #26
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
I know its out of character for me to be critical of Obama. But.....my point is that the majority of the country thinks he is doing the wrong things. He thinks he needs to get his message across. The fact that he doenst recognize this is a big problem!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
it's simple...he's smart....you are dumb he's incapable of getting it
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 07:14 AM   #27
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 32,684
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
But you can't deny that there was a legitimate argument against the Surge given past events. Certainly a lot of the opposition was political or just people simply tired with war...but opposition alone wasn't necessarily demonstrating a lack of will.
Where were you in the mid 2000s, Spence? There was SIGNIFICANT opposition from every corner, most often from the Democratic Party. This explicitly shows those we are engaged against a lack of political will. This also shows the people we try to bring on board with us as partners that we are not a worthy ally, and could not be trusted to stick it through.

Going into Iraq was stupidly wrong. It was planned wrong, it was managed wrong. Easy to see in hindsight. Like 85% of the rest I believed in the WMD too. But that ship had sailed and all of those options sailed with it over the horizon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
Personally I think many just weren't close enough to the situation on the ground to sense the opportunity as the General was. The results from the Surge appear to have been the result of timing, effort and luck. Had the situation changed slightly (i.e. Sunni resistance) I'd think it could have easily failed. I'm thankful that we had all three.
There were significant missed opportunities from all but again, the opposition from the left did more to make it look like were were bailing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
Why wouldn't any President desperately seek a way out of the longest war in our countries history?
Because an active anti-west/US AFG will present significant security dilemmas for our nation, our kids, and our grandkids is why. When we are gone from there - and it looks a lot more like when these days than if - we will be fighting elements from AFG/PAK for decades. Probably on our own soil. Political Correctness will probably invite them to our shores for a group hug first .

Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
What the article seems to show is that after all the drama, Obama chose to do what the military was advocating rather than what would appease the democratic (and younger voters) base. -spence
- come on Spence, you've read more than that page already, right? Obama, Biden, that next mistake political hack for NSA Donilon? Yeh, we're so screwed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
The "timetable" issue is a red herring though. One one hand it gives the edge to the enemy and on the other it motivates local forces to take up the slack. I call it a wash...

-spence
Bullsheize

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2010, 07:25 AM   #28
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post

Going into Iraq was stupidly wrong. It was planned wrong, it was managed wrong. Easy to see in hindsight. Like 85% of the rest I believed in the WMD too. But that ship had sailed and all of those options sailed with it over the horizon.


Bullsheize
I think this a difficult statement to make because you need to take into account the question of where we'd be today concerning Iraq if we'd not gone in...the only alternative that the opponents offer is that we should have stuck with sanctions, the type that are working so well with Iran...what would the Middle East look like today and more importantly...in the future.... if we'd not gone in? I don't have an answer but I think it's hard to definitively say it should or should not have occured at this point and arguing the point proves nothing. Where would we be if we'd shown more resolve and not had the effort undermined at every opportunity by the opponents?....I'll just never forget "General Betrayus" and the comments from the likes of Hillary "suspending disbelief" Clinton and others as well as the comments of the opponents in the years leading up to the invasion regarding the Hussein regime(that's the Saddam Hussein regime...not the Barak Hussein regime)

Last edited by scottw; 11-04-2010 at 08:07 AM..
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com