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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

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Old 11-16-2010, 06:46 PM   #1
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Ok I just hurled a bit

Massachusetts governor's second term will push tuition for illegal immigrants - Fall River, MA - The Herald News

GTFOOH!
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:10 PM   #2
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im about ready to denounce my citizenship so i get all the free stuff, i mean why be a middle age white single male with a job?
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:34 PM   #3
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I'm going for the french citizenship living illegally in the US until I am 62 then retire with full health care and pension in Marseilles, with subsided condo on the cape during the fishing season.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:23 PM   #4
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I'm marrying Striperman,because that's ok in this state.Then off to France where dudes wear speedos!
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:27 PM   #5
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I'm marrying Striperman,because that's ok in this state.Then off to France where dudes wear speedos!
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Hey, don't tell my French wife about this. Maybe we can work something out
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:28 PM   #6
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Crap like this enrages me.

Maybe instead of allowing illegals to go to school for free at my expense, they should pretend like they're allowing the illegals to go for free. Acquire a list of all those pieces of %$%$%$%$ living here illegally and then hand the list over to INS.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:35 PM   #7
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Crap like this enrages me.

Maybe instead of allowing illegals to go to school for free at my expense, they should pretend like they're allowing the illegals to go for free. Acquire a list of all those pieces of %$%$%$%$ living here illegally and then hand the list over to INS.
It's more the problem for their children born here, that according to our Constitution are now illegally, legal aliens.
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:12 AM   #8
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section 8 i go skool frEe noW
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Old 11-17-2010, 05:31 AM   #9
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they'll be needing new cars too....
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:59 AM   #10
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and free fishing licenses and gear

No insurance

Welfare, WWDC and Food Stamps.

And when they are 69 SS

I just got sick again


How many people here had parents or grandparents that came here with nothing, Took nothing from the govt. and worked their asses off to stay and support your family?
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:07 AM   #11
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wastin' away again in Liberalville

Calif., RI, Mass are and will continue to be magnets for illegals

it's what you get for continuing to elect maggots like Chaffee, Coupe de Vall and Jerry Brown and then reinforce them with the illegals best friends like David Ciciline, Barney Frank, Theresa Paiva Weed.....it's sad and it's not going to get better

hey Salty, if you want great...free... health insurance, just renounce your citizenship, get pregnant and move to Rhode Island...the advocates will be falling all over themselves to provide a choice of health plans, monthly checks and other services...and when you are ready to get a job you can get governement work and we won't even inquire as to your status because "that would be too divisive"...you can get a job at the registry and sell drivers licenses out the back door during your frequent coffee breaks to other illegal aliens and make a bundle

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Old 11-17-2010, 10:24 AM   #12
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We just had a chance to vote this nut out of office and failed. I can't believe anyone is even considering giving free rides to illegals. Our tax money going to support illegals in any way is wrong. Absolutley dispicable, I'm sure when my boy is up for college the gov't will be standing guard at the door- Sorry son your dad worked every day and paid taxes,you aren't entitled to any help. WTF?

Dude where's my sneakers?
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:01 PM   #13
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im speechless. he should be dragged out of his office and tar and feathered.

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Old 11-17-2010, 12:07 PM   #14
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Thank you sir...may I have another. We learn nothing for our mistakes.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:31 PM   #15
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Down here in the People's Republic Of Connecticut, we also offer in-state tuition to families who are here illegally. I had an unpleasant chat with my state senator, a liberal Democrat who supported the bill.

This is so stupid, it really is tough to contemplate. The whole point of offering in-state tuition to state residents is due to the fact that state residents pay taxes which fund state schools. Since state residents (who pay taxes) are already giving money to state schools, they should pay less than out-of-state residents who don't pay taxes to support those schools.

Folks here illegally obviously pay no taxes, and therefore deserve no subsidized tuition.

If anything, when the illegals show up to get their discounted tuition, they should be given (1) a one-way bus ticket to wherever they came from, and (2) a copy of the rules explaining how they can apply to come back legally.

I am one of 5 boys. When I was at UCONN, we had 2 others in college at the same time, and the money simply ran out. I went to a community college for a year, then enlisted in the Marines and got some $$ from them. My parents were absolutely devastated that they couldn't afford to keep me in UCONN. If they were relieved of the burden of paying taxes their whole lives (a benefit we offer to illegals), I could have stayed in school without having to literally fight for my life in Iraq to pay for it.

How do you justify giving tuition breaks to families that are here illegally, instead of using that $$ to assist tax-paying citizens who are in need of help?

Furthermore, these kids shouldn't be allowed to go to public college at all, let alone for a discounted rate. Colleges limit the number of kids they accept. So for every illegal who gets in, that's one less spot available for a kid whose parents are here legally and pay taxes. Instead of paying taxes, those legal families would be better off NOT paying taxes and instead paying for private tutors for their children, to make sure they don't get bypassed by illegals who are not burdened by taxes.

To anyone who supports this, I say 2 things. First, since I assume you have been painting inside with the windows shut, you need to open the windows a bit. Those fumes can effect your brain. Second, what would you say to the parents (tax paying citizens) of a kid who got rejected from UMASS to make room for a kid whose family is here illegally, and pays no taxes? What do you tell that kid and his parents?

This is a great example of why I claim that liberalism is a mental disorder. How else can you explain this type of madness?

Last edited by Jim in CT; 11-17-2010 at 01:39 PM..
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:10 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post

Folks here illegally obviously pay no taxes,

they pay sales tax

. Second, what would you say to the parents (tax paying citizens) of a kid who got rejected from UMASS to make room for a kid whose family is here illegally, and pays no taxes? What do you tell that kid and his parents?
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:16 PM   #17
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or ... say a NH resident that works in MA. Pays MA state income tax - which funds education. If he/she sends their kid to a state school in MA, they'd pay out of state tuiton. However an illegal would pay in-state tuition. How the heck is that fair. Both are not LEGAL residents of MA!!!

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Old 11-17-2010, 07:28 PM   #18
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im speechless. he should be dragged out of his office and tar and feathered.
I got 30 chicken saddles. Get the tar. Friggin A-hole. I totally DID NOT VOTE for the %$%$%$%$%$%$%$
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
To anyone who supports this, I say 2 things. First, since I assume you have been painting inside with the windows shut, you need to open the windows a bit. Those fumes can effect your brain. Second, what would you say to the parents (tax paying citizens) of a kid who got rejected from UMASS to make room for a kid whose family is here illegally, and pays no taxes? What do you tell that kid and his parents?
I do not support this as written. If you believe in the constitution as written, for now, children of illegals who were born here, are leagal. Do you punish them for their parents?

Working in academia, I have encountered children of residents, immigrants and maybe, illegal immigrants, I have no idea. As a rule (w/ the obvious caveat that there are always exceptions) the children of immigrants, exchange students and older students (especially former military!) are typically in the upper echelon of working hard at learning and are the least likely to screw off on mommy and daddy's nickel. You probably fell into this category Jim.

Several observations to think about, but not meant to be argumentative for this
1. What % of the total funding from a state university comes from the state (i.e. taxes). It may be less than you think, for example, URI is <15% now. I suspect UMASS is in the same vein.

2. The parents of the rejected students, if they were accepted/rejected on academic standards, i.e. SAT et al., High School GPA etc... then they should have worked harder, or go to a CC for a year and get all of those numbers up and reapply.

Again, I do not support illegal immigrants getting instate tuition. I do think the legal children of illegals is a grayer area, and I'm not sure how I feel about this. I just wanted to offer some insight to direct your anger at the proper places.

Bryan

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Old 11-17-2010, 09:21 PM   #20
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I do not support this as written. If you believe in the constitution as written, for now, children of illegals who were born here, are leagal. Do you punish them for their parents?
Simple answer, yes.

There needs to be some damn accountability in this effing country. How many times have we heard it on the news that some illegal mother is allowed to stay here (on our dime) because she crossed over the border and squirted out a kid on our soil (a pregnancy that was more than likely paid for, again, on *OUR* dime)? How many more times do you think it happens and we haven't heard about it?

Take away the incentives, increase the danger, drop them in concentration camps until they're shipped home - one thing I don't mind paying for. Do those three things and eventually there won't be any incentive and as such, no motivation to come here.

They are like cockroaches, leeching off of our society. AZ makes a law to try and solve the problem, and the roaches leave the kitchen and spread throughout the house.
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:33 AM   #21
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[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;811648] If you believe in the constitution as written, for now, children of illegals who were born here, are leagal. Do you punish them for their parents?QUOTE}

I believe in the Constitution as written...... (hope you get to read this Bryan)..."working in academia", can you show us where in the Constitution "as written" it provides automatic citizenship for the children(born here) to those that have come or are here illegally?

Actually, it's the 14th Ammendment written after the civil war and then an 1898 Supreme Court decision which is cited/distorted and allowing this to occur...

After the Civil War, the 14th Amendment (overturning, in part, Dred Scott v. Sandford, which said that no black could be a U.S. citizen) clarified the conditions of citizenship: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside."

Many today assume the second half of the citizenship clause ("subject to the jurisdiction thereof") merely refers to the day-to-day laws to which we are all subject. But the original understanding referred to political allegiance. Being subject to U.S. jurisdiction meant, as then-Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee Lyman Trumbull stated, "not owing allegiance to anybody else [but] subject to the complete jurisdiction of the United States." The author of the provision, Sen. Jacob Merritt Howard of Michigan, pointed out that the jurisdiction language "will not, of course, include foreigners."

[Read more about U.S. immigration reform.]

It was in 1898 (in United States v. Wong Kim Ark) that the Supreme Court expanded the constitutional mandate, holding that the children of legal, permanent residents were automatically citizens. While the decision could be (and is often) read more broadly, the court has never held that the clause confers automatic citizenship on the children of temporary visitors, much less of illegal residents.

The broader reading is a constitutional misreading. Not only does it grant citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants, it also gives full due-process rights to the likes of Taliban fighter Yasir Hamdi (born in the United States of visiting Saudi parents and captured fighting U.S. soldiers 20 years later in Afghanistan).

But it is the principle of the matter that is most problematic. The broad claim of automatic birthright citizenship traces its roots more to the feudal concept of perpetual allegiance of subjects to kings, rather than equal rights and the consent of the governed. It violates bedrock American principles and undermines the rule of law.

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Old 11-18-2010, 01:25 PM   #22
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[RIROCKHOUND...

"Do you punish them for their parents? "

Yes, denying these kids spots at public colleges is punishing kids for the actions (CRIMES) of their parents. However, what this proposed bill does is worse...it punishes kids whose parents ARE OBEYING THE RULES. Here's why. Illegals use the same services that we do, but they don't pay taxes, so that means the rest of us have to pay higher taxes. Some folks, as a result of those inflated taxes, cannot afford to pay full tuition at UMASS. And instead of helping those folks out, the state wants to penalize them FURTHER by using tax dollars to give tuition breaks to families that are here illegally, and also not paying income taxes.

In a perfect world, everyone could afford college. We don't live in that world. But it's indefensible and unbelievably stupid to punish law-abiding taxpayers, and reward law-breakers at the same time.

Finally, I'm not sure that telling illegals that they need to pay full tuition is "punishing" them. The facts are, they don't deserve tuition subsidies, because they avoid paying taxes.

Since you work in academia, what message does it send to all kids, if they see that lawbreakers get rewarded (tuition breaks) for breaking the law? Doesn't that create an incentive for others to dodge taxes? How about teaching kids the basics of citizenship and shared responsibility?

"1. What % of the total funding from a state university comes from the state (i.e. taxes). It may be less than you think, for example, URI is <15% now. I suspect UMASS is in the same vein. "

Fine, if that state contribution does not provide any benefit whatsoever to the taxpayers footing the bill, give that money back to the taxpayers. The professors can take a commensurate pay cut to offset it.

CA currently pays $300 million a year for tuition breaks to illegals. It's insane to spend 1 penny on that, particularly in this economy.

"2. The parents of the rejected students, if they were accepted/rejected on academic standards, i.e. SAT et al., High School GPA etc... then they should have worked harder, or go to a CC for a year and get all of those numbers up and reapply. "

But my point was that the parents who pay taxes are AT A COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE, compared to illegals,because of the fact that they have to pay taxes. If the parents of the rejected kids had never paid taxes in their lives, they could have had private tutors to help their kid boost his credentials, enroll their kid in SAT prep courses, etc.... But since those parents have to work an extra 4 months a year to pay their tax burden, those are significant resources (time and money) that illegals can dedicate to educating their kids, but taxpayers cannot. God, this is infuriating me as I type
it...

"Again, I do not support illegal immigrants getting instate tuition. I do think the legal children of illegals is a grayer area"

In my opinion, priority should be given to people who benefit all of society by killing themselves to pay taxes. If all taxpayers who want to go to UMASS get in and can afford it, and there's STILL money leftover, I'd be in favor of giving it to those kids.

But the fcat is, resources are limited, and I don't see how anyone can try to make a case that illegals (including their kids) have more of a right to those limited resources, than the people who provide the resources.

Keep in mind we're talking about college, which isn't a right. Kids of illegals should have access to healthcare and a place to live, things necessary to stay alive. None of them has a right to a college education, particularly not at the expense of those struggling to pay taxes.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:01 PM   #23
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Jim: Thanks for a well thought out response. this is the discourse I enjoy in the political forum. I don't have time to go through point by point right now, but appreciate the response

Bryan

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Old 11-18-2010, 03:21 PM   #24
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Jim: Thanks for a well thought out response. this is the discourse I enjoy in the political forum. I don't have time to go through point by point right now, but appreciate the response
translation...he doesn't believe a word of what you just wrote and he needs to get back to painting inside with the windows shut :rotf2

key word....illegal...illegal....illegal....just doesn't have the stigma that it used to does it?

hey Jim, UC students.....mostly 28 year old "Peace Studies" students from what they say..... are protesting today over tuition fee hikes in academia in the very bankrupt state of California ....go figure?

Studies put Texas' cost of educating undocumented students as high as $1.65 billion a year, an expense that easily outpaces other costs associated with illegal immigration, such as medical and criminal justice services. The cost of illegal immigration to Texas' public schools jumps to about $4 billion a year, according to one study, when the immigrants' children — some of whom were born in the United States and are, therefore, citizens — are counted.

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Old 11-18-2010, 03:54 PM   #25
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Watchit you can't say %$%$%$%$%$%$%$ anymore

or a hole

one infraction

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I got 30 chicken saddles. Get the tar. Friggin A-hole. I totally DID NOT VOTE for the %$%$%$%$%$%$%$
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:02 PM   #26
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like I said..."Peace Studies"

After violence erupted Wednesday when a University of California committee began considering a tuition increase, on Thursday that committee approved the plan to raise student fees by 8 percent next fall while expanding financial aid to more students.
Thursday morning’s vote by the finance committee of the UC Board of Regents comes a day after a student protest outside the meeting at the University of San Francisco, which left four police officers injured and lead to more than a dozen protester arrests.

According to KGO-TV in San Francisco, one officer had to pull his gun when a group of 40 protesters jumped him in a parking garage. The group wrestled the officer’s baton away from him and were beating him with it. When the officer drew his gun, the Daily Nexus reports, the small mob began chanting “Take his gun!”
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:50 PM   #27
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like I said..."Peace Studies"

After violence erupted Wednesday when a University of California committee began considering a tuition increase, on Thursday that committee approved the plan to raise student fees by 8 percent next fall while expanding financial aid to more students.
Thursday morning’s vote by the finance committee of the UC Board of Regents comes a day after a student protest outside the meeting at the University of San Francisco, which left four police officers injured and lead to more than a dozen protester arrests.

According to KGO-TV in San Francisco, one officer had to pull his gun when a group of 40 protesters jumped him in a parking garage. The group wrestled the officer’s baton away from him and were beating him with it. When the officer drew his gun, the Daily Nexus reports, the small mob began chanting “Take his gun!”

Again, this is why I claim, with a great deal of validity, that liberalism is a mental disorder. That's the party that claims to be about open-mindedness and inclusiveness. Until the university chancellor disagrees with them about something, at which point they riot and assault cops.

It simply isn't possible to have an intellectually honest conversation with a liberal. It cannot be done. In 5 seconds, you can point out a dozen glaring inconsistincies (or flat-out lies) in the ideology, at which point they either (1) call you a racist, or (2) throw something at you. Anything to bring an abrupt end to the debate.

Just think for a second about an ideology that says that a serial killer has the right to live, but not an unborn baby. How much do you have to despise the notion of individual responsibility to arrive at that inane conclusion?
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