Barely 60% of Working Age Adults paytaxes - wtf?

[JohnR]

Why is it that only a low 60% of Americans (working age adults) pay taxes and 40% don't? Why do 60% of Americans pay the lion's share of the nut?

"You've got a larger and larger share of people paying less and less for the services provided by the federal government," says Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. "The concern is that the majority can say, 'Let's have more benefits, spend more,' if they're not paying for it. It's 'free.' That's not a good thing to have."

By historic standards, today's situation is an aberration. Between 1950 and 1990, the number of owe-no-money federal tax returns averaged 21 percent, dipping to 18 percent in 1986, according to Tax Foundation data. In the 1990s, the owe-no-money percentage hovered around 25 percent of taxpayers.

From: The Income Tax System is Broken - CBS News

Data: Tax Units with Zero or Negative Tax Liability, 2009-2019

Why do I bust my a$$ in two jobs trying to make things better for my family and I have to pay to make someone elses' life better too? I have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to help others but where is the balance? We have all of these programs, we get more and more programs, and get more and more taxes and fees? Other than death, when or how does it end? When did we stop being a responsible country?

I'm just in a really pi$$y mood because after doing two shows and a couple server installs next month I will finally have enough time to do my taxes. Time to start another thread.

[PRBuzz]

Don't forget all those people on Welfare and other forms of government assistance that you are also supporting since they are paid for by YOUR tax $.

[striperman36]

and all the retired politico's with their kiss in the mail

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

Don't forget all those people on Welfare and other forms of government assistance that you are also supporting since they are paid for by YOUR tax $.

I don't mind some of my tax dollars helping people when they are down bu I have a problem with those hat perpetually keep themselves down. I'd much rather be putting money to the kids "C" fund than to pay for people abusing services or shirking responsibility.

Originally Posted by striperman36

and all the retired politico's with their kiss in the mail

Their pension and health benefits are certainly taken care of...

[scottw]

I guess we've revised the 80/20 rule...I'm pretty sure that someone once warned that the Republic would collapse when we reached a point where the number of folks not paying into the system but able to vote themselves increased benefits from the system exceeded the number actually supporting the our system....

[Raven]

you trade your SKILLS for a service rendered
or you sell a product for X amount of dollars

but when the Government steps in and takes half of your
earnings

and then doesn't deliver the services they said they would provide
and are threatening to take even more

people eventually say......hey ya know what..... F-them
THIS is no longer an "equitable trade" anymore

so i believe, you have to L(o)(o)k at it that way ALSO

not strictly from the "i'm supporting the non tax payers"
ANGLE.

[Raven]

the TAX dollars...................

are not solely staying in AMERICA....

just helping Americans or the American infrastructure

they are being given away to PAKISTAN
and many other non American countries
and fighting wars that the "government"
deems necessary ....

just imagine how wonderful things would be in
America if all those tax dollars were only spent
on AMERICANS and AMERICA

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Raven

the TAX dollars...................

are not solely staying in AMERICA....

just helping Americans or the American infrastructure

they are being given away to PAKISTAN
and many other non American countries
and fighting wars that the "government"
deems necessary ....

just imagine how wonderful things would be in
America if all those tax dollars were only spent
on AMERICANS and AMERICA

Correct, but there is a catch. If US money is not spent overseas in many cases it may cost more American blood & treasure in the long run. This is not to say the Guv has been right more often than not but they try.

What concerns (pisses) me is we spend ungodly amounts domestically and some of these programs may collapse in the future. Hell our economy and way of life has the potential to collapse. We're may be close to the tipping point. A nation in decline.

[Raven]

But as a Nation in Decline

we have to move back closer to Isolationism

because it is as out of *control now ..............*out of balance
as is

plover preservation

[Joe]

About 15% are either unemployed or have given up and are living under a bridge. The under-employed constitute close to another 10%, those working part time or those settling for jobs for which they are grossly over-qualified.
My accountant told me that a lot of his customers have simply stopped filing because they don't have the money to pay.

[stcroixman]

I prepare taxes and there has been a big drop in income the last 2 years. A smentioned above unemployement and people taking any job just for a little $$ are a big reason, but I also think the undergound economy has grown.

Unreported Bartering Income and underreporting of Cash Income decrease one's taxes as well. Cash is always preferred over check and CC.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Joe

About 15% are either unemployed or have given up and are living under a bridge. The under-employed constitute close to another 10%, those working part time or those settling for jobs for which they are grossly over-qualified.
My accountant told me that a lot of his customers have simply stopped filing because they don't have the money to pay.

exactly Joe, not only are some paying...and many not paying anything(some even getting a nice check through the EITC)...but a lot of the middle can no longer afford to pay...not only has govt. spending gone way up but tax revenues have dropped as well...

[Joe]

I don't know how a wage earner in the middle can avoid paying. Which is why they don't typically audit wage earners - not much opportunity to cheat.

[scottw]

you just said.... "My accountant told me that a lot of his customers have simply stopped filing because they don't have the money to pay."

I assumed you meant... pay their taxes...or did you mean they aren't filing because they don't have the money to pay the accountant?

sole-owner and small business proprietors, independent contractors(sales people, realtors etc.), anyone paying quarterlies and property tax...these people are not all high earners and not counted in the unemployment stats when business dries up ....but they are people that keep the money moving through the system through their activity.....falling behind....penalties and interest piling up...just trying to keep the lights on...I know a bunch of them...

[Joe]

I'm quite sure there are more than a few who are so broke they don't have the money to pay the accountant/tax preparer. But what I meant was that people who have federal withholding and get paid a wage (not a salary and bonus) typically can't stop paying their taxes because they have no control over it. A wage earner can't stop paying their fed withholding if their employer is not in on it.

People like these are not filing at all:
Business owners who went belly-up but owe sales/use and income taxes for the year but are now broke and can't pay.

People who made some money during the course of the year that they typically would pay at tax time, but whose situation changed during the course of the year and they spent the money they typically would save for paying their taxes.

Unemployed people who have raided their 401K's and annuities for lump-sum payments to stay in their homes and did not have the taxes withheld and who now find themselves with a whopping tax bill.

[Raven]

they are getting paid
taxes are being withdrawn
but they will never file

there are 4.8 million of them

[Joe]

I don't see how our economy in its present state will lift enough people to the point where they will ever have a federal tax liability.
We've switched from a manufacturing economy to a service/knowledge economy where opportunity for people without higher education is very low. With 72% of our workforce with less than bachelors degree, it does not point to much improvement in the short-mid term. Most of our workforce is only qualified for jobs can be done abroad much cheaper.

[striperman36]

Love this one in MA also

Runaway health costs are rocking municipal budgets - The Boston Globe

[Joe]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Love this one in MA also

Runaway health costs are rocking municipal budgets - The Boston Globe

unsustainable

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Joe

unsustainable

Happens all the time in every state

[PRBuzz]

Originally Posted by Raven

they are getting paid
taxes are being withdrawn
but they will never file

there are 4.8 million of them

IRS: $1.3 billion still unclaimed for '06, and deadline looms

(CNN) -- Some people who didn't file a federal tax return for 2006 have more than 1 billion reasons to reconsider, but they need to do it fast, according to the Internal Revenue Service.

The IRS says it has more than $1.3 billion in refunds for 1.4 million people who didn't file a 2006 return. But to collect the cash, they will have to file for that year by April 15.

Does the states give a clue as to who has not filed?
The IRS estimates the median unclaimed refund for 2006 nonfilers is $604. California is the state with the most nonfilers who qualify for refunds from that year (159,700), with Texas (109,600) and Florida (101,700) right behind.

[Raven]

thats like calling the "meegra" on yerself....
yo....Uncle Sam.... we need to go back to Mexico or Brazil
cuz were having a Big wedding there.

the IRS is as dillusional as Cheney

[Raven]

by the way...i never planned on Uncle SAM paying me a Single Dime of
social security benefits... and have planned accordingly...

i truly believe they'll come up with some friggan excuse in
2017......mark my words...

[PRBuzz]

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability.

The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners -- households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 -- paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.

Here's how they did it, according to Deloitte Tax:

The family was entitled to a standard deduction of $11,400 and four personal exemptions of $3,650 apiece, leaving a taxable income of $24,000. The federal income tax on $24,000 is $2,769.

With two children younger than 17, the family qualified for two $1,000 child tax credits. Its Making Work Pay credit was $800 because the parents were married filing jointly.

The $2,800 in credits exceeds the $2,769 in taxes, so the family makes a $31 profit from the federal income tax. That ought to take the sting out of April 15.

That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.

[spence]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability.

Which is actually 2% LESS than the last year under a different president. It looks like the recession and government incentives to support the lower wage earners have influenced the numbers a lot.

The interesting thing is to look at taxes paid relative to income earned. While the wealthy do pay slightly more it's more flat than one might think.

Also, these numbers are usually reflecting marginal Federal rates only. The lower wage earners do pay taxes, but are able to lower their burden mostly on the Federal portion.



-spence

[JohnnyD]

It's interesting that you brought this up. I just left Sweetwater's house and were *literally* just discussing this issue. I'd go into it but the conversation lasted a handful of beers and a couple cigars.

To sum up both of our opinions....

[stcroixman]

Funny, I never see anyone in practice who gets credits complain like everyone above.That includes people with low incomes to high incomes.

I also don't know of anyone who returned the Bush or Obama handouts of 2009 or previous years.

It's easy to bitch on an internet board, but in real life most people are paying taxes. A typical couple around 45- 50 earning $100k - $150k a year with a house and 2 kids in college is not rich IMO, and more likely struggling right now and should get some relief.

Greedy owners and Greedy unions drove away the jobs to China.They are not returning in our lifetime.

Focus on property taxes, sales taxes, car taxes those are rising much faster than income taxes.

[FishermanTim]

With the slew of taxes levied on us on a daily/weekly/yearly basis, we are being taxes literally for just being alive, breathing air and taking up space on this planet.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

The interesting thing is to look at taxes paid relative to income earned. While the wealthy do pay slightly more it's more flat than one might think.



-spence

The top 10% of earners, paid 73 % of income taxes collected.

That's flat like Pamala Anderson

[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

The top 10% of earners, paid 73 % of income taxes collected.

That's flat like Pamala Anderson

only suckers work and pay taxes in America...