Barely 60% of Working Age Adults paytaxes - wtf?

[Backbeach Jake]

Flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage, say 10 to 15%. Eliminate all other taxes.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

Flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage, say 10 to 15%. Eliminate all other taxes.

too many lawyers would be out of business

[PRBuzz]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

Flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage, say 10 to 15%. Eliminate all other taxes.

Yes to the flat tax! Key is eliminating ALL deductions and putting ALL income into a single category (salary, capital gains L/S, interest/dividends, etc), the country could probably make out collecting higher taxes only charging 5-10%!

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

The top 10% of earners, paid 73 % of income taxes collected.

That's flat like Pamala Anderson

That's not the point...

at all.

You did take high school math right? Oh yea, didn't you go to prep school???

-spence

[RIROCKHOUND]

Do the top 10% earn more than 73% of the total wealth?

I'm just asking..

Flat tax = less money to states, what's to stop them from jacking up state taxes?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Do the top 10% earn more than 73% of the total wealth? 44%

I'm just asking..

Flat tax = less money to states, what's to stop them from jacking up state taxes?

what's to stop any of them from jacking up taxes...didn't you hear Volker the other day?....higher taxes on everything, on energy through Cap and Tax and a VAT coming soon!

[striperman36]

As stated, VAT is coming to every finished product very soon

[likwid]

Gleaned from wherever:

About 45 percent of households will owe no federal income tax in 2010, according to our estimates. Half of them earn too little, while the other half -- mostly middle- and lower-income households -- will take advantage of tax credits such as the earned income credit, the child and child-care credits, the American Opportunity and Lifetime Learning credits, which help pay for college, and the saver's credit, which subsidizes retirement saving.
But even citizens who pay no income tax still pay other kinds of taxes. They pay Social Security and Medicare taxes when they work, sales taxes when they buy things and property taxes on their homes. Drivers pay gasoline taxes, and smokers and drinkers pay excise taxes on tobacco and alcohol. According to our research, more than 75 percent of us will pay at least some form of federal tax in 2010.
Those who pay no federal taxes are mostly the low-income elderly or very poor families with children. Even about half of those with annual incomes under $10,000 pay some federal tax, most often payroll taxes on wages.
And yes, the richest Americans pay taxes, too. Though a tiny minority manage to avoid federal income tax through elaborate tax planning, 99.7 percent of those with annual incomes above $1 million will pay federal taxes this year, surrendering 27 percent of their earnings to the government. The average American taxpayer pays 18 percent.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by likwid

Gleaned from wherever:

But even citizens who pay no income tax still pay other kinds of taxes. .

and the people who actually pay all of the federal taxes pay those "other taxes" as well and are far less likely to be recieving government assistance and various freebies...isn't this the illegal alien argument that the left uses?..."well...they pay other taxes like sales tax and stuff.. ya know"....good God! the social security"tax" is supposed to be for their social security, not a tax...medicare...same thing...a downpayment on a future entitlement....where exactly did you glean this from?...I'd really love to know we're right at the tipping point...more people voting themselves benefits out of other peoples wallets than people that believe it's their responsibility to take care of their own wallet and a whole lot of enablers....YIKES!

[striperman36]

Here it comes!!!

VAT bend over U.S. eyes sales tax - BostonHerald.com

[stcroixman]

Originally Posted by likwid

Gleaned from wherever:

About 45 percent of households will owe no federal income tax in 2010, according to our estimates. Half of them earn too little, while the other half -- mostly middle- and lower-income households -- will take advantage of tax credits such as the earned income credit, the child and child-care credits, the American Opportunity and Lifetime Learning credits, which help pay for college, and the saver's credit, which subsidizes retirement saving.
But even citizens who pay no income tax still pay other kinds of taxes. They pay Social Security and Medicare taxes when they work, sales taxes when they buy things and property taxes on their homes. Drivers pay gasoline taxes, and smokers and drinkers pay excise taxes on tobacco and alcohol. According to our research, more than 75 percent of us will pay at least some form of federal tax in 2010.
Those who pay no federal taxes are mostly the low-income elderly or very poor families with children. Even about half of those with annual incomes under $10,000 pay some federal tax, most often payroll taxes on wages.
And yes, the richest Americans pay taxes, too. Though a tiny minority manage to avoid federal income tax through elaborate tax planning, 99.7 percent of those with annual incomes above $1 million will pay federal taxes this year, surrendering 27 percent of their earnings to the government. The average American taxpayer pays 18 percent.

This is how it really is. People without experience practing as tax professionals just give biased opinions. Good post!

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Here it comes!!!

VAT bend over U.S. eyes sales tax - BostonHerald.com

Yesterday, the Congressional Budget Office acknowledged it’s studying a value-added tax, also known as VAT, at the request of unidentified congressional staffers. No dollar amounts were mentioned.

The congressional staffers will have to be identified eventually, and then they will be voted out of office.

“The tax code remains too long, too complicated and too chock full of wasteful subsidies and giveaways that don’t make economic sense,” Kerry said in a statement.

“A big reform is overdue. We should simplify. You should look at and consider everything that would take some of the burden off of working people. We should definitely debate alternatives like the VAT, but the test of any idea should be fairness, progressivity and economic growth." -John Kerry

4 more years of dealing with the idiot. I just went to John Kerry's official website to try and find what he's done for Massachusetts lately... can't find anything.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by stcroixman

This is how it really is. People without experience practing as tax professionals just give biased opinions. Good post!

you are ignoring the handout that is the EITC both state and federally, not only are many not paying any federal income tax, but many are enjoying free money courtesy of the US taxpayer...

The United States federal Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC or EIC) is a refundable tax credit; it is means tested, and designed to encourage low-income workers and offset the burden of U.S. payroll taxes. For tax year 2009, a claimant with one qualifying child can receive a maximum credit of $3,043. A claimant with two qualifying children can receive a maximum credit of $5,028. The credit is expanded for tax year 2009 and 2010. For claimants with three or more qualifying children, the maximum credit is $5,657. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, and siblings can also claim a child as their qualifying child provided they shared residence with the child for more than six months of the tax year. However, in tie-breaker situations in which more than one filer claims the same child, priority will be given to the parent. A foster child also counts provided the child has been officially placed by an agency or court. There is a much more modest EIC for persons and couples without children that reaches a maximum of $457.[1]

Since the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) became part of the income tax code in 1975, it has quietly become the largest cash transfer program in the United States. At a cost of more than $44 billion per year, EITC spending dwarfs that of the traditional welfare program—Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)—and nd food stamps combined. More than 23 million households currently receive the credit.

“From 1985 to 2006, EITC payments grew from $2.1 billion to $44.4 billion, or by an eye-popping 2,014 percent,”. “Total federal income tax revenues rose by 217 percent over that same period. Similarly, the number of returns claiming the EITC rose from 6.4 million to 23 million—an increase of 255 percent—over a perperiod when the total number of federal income tax returns increased by 36 percent.

“Bottom line: Immigrants accounted for about 13 percent of the U.S. population in 2008 but receive an estimated 26 percent of EITC benefits—about $12 billion.”

The most distressing aspect of EITC stems from unlawful immigrants tapping into the program on a massive scale. For example, in Greeley, Colorado this year, district attorney Buck Young raided a tax filing agency to find over 1,000 fraudulent returns by unlawful workers. While they paid little or nothing in taxes, they received hundreds of thousands in bogus returns. That same scam multiplies all over the country.

“Tax relief" goes to people who never paid a cent in taxes, and may have already defrauded the government of huge sums each year. "EITC scams are common, well-organized, and massive," Rubenstein writes in the report. EITC ranks second out of 57 government programs in fraudulent payments.

“But enthusiasm for the credit has blinded policy makers to its problems. The EITC program is dominated by fraud. Year after year about one-third of all EITC returns are based on illegal multiple returns, phony Social Security numbers, or claims of non-existent children or spouses. A disproportionate share of illegal alien households receives the benefit.

“Washington’s love affair with the EITC has allowed the minimum wage to decline in real value. Native workers have suffered as a result. So have labor unions. In effect, the EITC subsidizes employers who hire low-wage immigrants and reject equally qualified natives. No one should be surprised; therefore, that Wal-mart, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and most liberal activist groups are major EITC supporters.

“For most poor families, the tax credit check is the largest single sum of money they will receive during the year. Most receive it after filing income taxes. But some need the money immediately, and they can get it—for a price. A niche financial sector thrives by leending EITC recipients immediate cash in return for a hefty chunk of their credit check. The cost to the poor of these so-called Refund Anticipation Loans (RALs) has been estimated at 6 percent of the entire EITC program.

“Widespread availability of high-interest RALs made poor borrowers easy marks for sub-prime mortgage hucksters. The resulting defaults have pushed the entire economy to the brink of collapse. While the sub-prime story is well known, few are aware of the EITC’s role in introducing the poor to the culture of debt.”

Has the EITC lived up to its hype? In answering this, consider the following:

The EITC originated as an anti-poverty program; the number of the returns claiming EITC benefits rose 25 times faster than the poverty population over the past two decades.

EITC benefits rise sharply with parenthood; poverty rates for families with children have risen faster than those for childless families since the credit was created.

The EITC is the most illegal-immigrant friendly of poverty programs; illegal immigrants constitute a far larger share of the poverty population now.

Implication: The EITC is a textbook case of unintended consequences. Our economic meltdown may be among them.

“The current federal EITC provides large benefits to families with children, mostly single mothers, and minimal benefits to singles, even though declining wages have affected all low-income workers. These disparities create disincentives to work in the formal labor market and for poor men and women to marry, cohabitate, and co-parent,” said Rubenstein. “President Obama’s stimulus package increased EITC payments by $600 for poor families with three or more children, while leaving the program’s perverse disincentives intact. This will merely exacerbate the credit’s bias against work and marriage.”

[likwid]

You forgot the title to your c/p

FRAUD & ABUSE: EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT BY UNLAWFUL IMMIGRANTS

[scottw]

Originally Posted by likwid

You forgot the title to your c/p

FRAUD & ABUSE: EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT BY UNLAWFUL IMMIGRANTS

actually, this concerns the EITC as a whole for the most part and is from two sources the first defining it and then a littany of reasons that it is problematic......but if you find fraud and abuse of taxpayers dollars on a large scale by illegal aliens and others not paying any federal income tax yet recieving checks each spring amusing, .....I....don't know what to say....

[spence]

I could see the VAT in our future but it would be a way off.

As bad as the tax code is, it's not going to be easy to change.

-spence

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by spence

I could see the VAT in our future but it would be a way off.

As bad as the tax code is, it's not going to be easy to change.

-spence

they're not going to change the existing tax code they are going to add VAT on top of itl

[spence]

Originally Posted by striperman36

they're not going to change the existing tax code they are going to add VAT on top of itl

No, the VAT would be a replacement as part of a restructured tax code.

-spence

[Mr. Sandman]

In theory I support this and think it makes sense on a lot of levels. The problem is they will never drop the income tax. So as long as that is around I oppose any and all other taxes.

I like a single 17% flat tax with no deductions (no mortgage deduction no nothing) OR I would support a big sales tax on goods and services BUT they have to drop the income tax. and cap gains taxes.

I support them for several reasons

1) it is much simpler and does away with deductions and people twisting the reality to get deductions.

2) AMT - is a joke While they claim they don't raise taxes this is a stealthy way they get more money from you without "raising " taxes Our tax system is way too complex.

3) Everyone pays based on what they consume. Even illegals and drug dealers when they buy their speed boats, fancy cars and guns. We will see more revenue . You buy something you pay.

4) There is no filing

5) Most libs don't like it because right not now the "poor" don't pay much in the way of taxes and now they would have to pay something (although since they are are poor they don't consume much so they would not pay much) Also this could be progressiveized with some sort of standard deduction.

6) I like it because they could do away with the cap gains tax as well. This would spur investment and could grow us out of the giant hole we are in.


The problem with Libs is that while they are "pro jobs" they are anti-business and see profit and capitalism as a sin. They love taxes, they like playing robin hood and growing government.

You want good jobs... create incentives for the wealthy to invest in creating NEW business...let them (the wealthy) keep the $ they make by taking risks with their capital. That's it.