Health Insurance

[Sea Dangles]

Well, now that smokers will be paying more money for their premiums do you think that the Obese are next? The amount of money they cost is dramatically more than those not categorized as obese. For now it is unconstitutional to do so but I have a feeling it is coming and it is about time. I know that I would benefit from not chipping in for those with no self control. This is a very real problem for employers.My HS son is enacting the passage of such in a mock high school senate forum in MA.

[PRBuzz]

CVS is trying to do that!

Asking it's 20,000 employees to submit various health info including BMI or pay $600 extra/yr on health ins.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Well, now that smokers will be paying more money for their premiums do you think that the Obese are next? The amount of money they cost is dramatically more than those not categorized as obese. For now it is unconstitutional to do so but I have a feeling it is coming and it is about time. I know that I would benefit from not chipping in for those with no self control. This is a very real problem for employers.My HS son is enacting the passage of such in a mock high school senate forum in MA.

Smokers have been paying more, for quite some time, where I work.

I think it's absolutely fair to surcharge for health hazards that are within one's control.

Think of car insurance. I choose to own a Honda Accord. If I choose to buy a Porsche, I should expect to pay more. No one quetsions the fairness of that.

Why does that same notion not apply to health insurance? If I choose to overeat and not exercise enough (a choice I seem to be making lately, judging by how snug my pants have been feelling), and that drives up my costs, why the heck shouldn't I pay for that extra cost?

People who have conditions that are no fault of their own, should not be penalized. People who make terrible choices should be expected to face the consequences of those choices.

Good topic.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

CVS is trying to do that!

Asking it's 20,000 employees to submit various health info including BMI or pay $600 extra/yr on health ins.

We had to do the same hting...submit to a BMI, and get a $600 credit toward the insurance cost. However, those with poor BMI's did not have to pay more than people with good BMI's. The discount was only based on participation, not the outcome.

[RIJIMMY]

my grandmother is 85, fat all her life, used to smoke like a machine, had 8 kids and still lives alone
My parents exercised when no one did, white bread was not allowed in our house, both were in amazing shape all their lives. Both died before 65.
who the hell knows?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

We had to do the same hting...submit to a BMI, and get a $600 credit toward the insurance cost. However, those with poor BMI's did not have to pay more than people with good BMI's. The discount was only based on participation, not the outcome.

Was this the first year?

If so, prob. next year the ones who "fail" will have to do some type of coaching class.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

my grandmother is 85, fat all her life, used to smoke like a machine, had 8 kids and still lives alone
My parents exercised when no one did, white bread was not allowed in our house, both were in amazing shape all their lives. Both died before 65.
who the hell knows?

Those are exceptions to the rule.

I can find a 16 year-old kid driving a Ferrari who won't have a car accident this year, that doesn't mean you give him free insurance. Yuo manage to the expectations, and the crystal clear expectation is that people whoe choose to over eat and smoke will be much more expensive to insure.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

my grandmother is 85, fat all her life, used to smoke like a machine, had 8 kids and still lives alone
My parents exercised when no one did, white bread was not allowed in our house, both were in amazing shape all their lives. Both died before 65.
who the hell knows?

Thanks for highlighting the exception Jimmy but to say who the hell knows is shortsighted at best. You usually have something to add that makes sense but fat ass costs an average of 3X somebody in good health. It's not the crap shoot you depict above.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Was this the first year?

If so, prob. next year the ones who "fail" will have to do some type of coaching class.

Great point, I have been waiting for that...

This was the 3rd year we had to do BMI and other health screenings...

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Well, now that smokers will be paying more money for their premiums do you think that the Obese are next?

I sure as hell hope so. With advances in cardiac, cholesterol and diabetic treatment, the Obese are living longer lives and draining the system dry while contributing significantly less to society. There was a report about how the obese cost more than smokers over their lifetime because smokers actually die due to their self-destructive habits. Obesity Now Costs Americans More In HealthCare Spending Than Smoking - Forbes

Not to mention the obese that haven't stuffed their faces to the point of receiving disability checks, are significantly less productive in the workplace due to missed work and an inability to stay as productive throughout the workweek. Obesity Costs U.S. Companies Billions In Lost Productivity: Gallup

Medical insurance should be tiered like automotive insurance. You drive like an idiot, rack up a bunch of tickets/accidents and demonstrate risky behavior? Then you pay significantly more for auto insurance. You eat McDonald's all day, wash down a box of poptarts with a milk shake and have eaten yourself to the point of being diabetic? Then you pay more for medical insurance.

Same goes for the druggies.

[FishermanTim]

Unfortunately the "incentive" approach doesn't work if people are not penalized for failing to at least "try" to lead a healthier lifestyle.
Maybe the health insurance approach may be the catalyst that gets people off their butts and out their doors?

I have always been a "big" man, not rotund and out of shape.
I get out and fish all year round, either walking or paddling for hours.
I may not eat the healthist, but I do try to kep a balanced diet.

My biggest problem is my age. Not the specific number, but the range I fall in. My metabolism has slowed down somewhat, as it does for most people as they age, and that creates the weight issue I deal with. I have been active for almost all of my life.
I walked and ran everywhere as a kid, I walked and cycled a lot as a young adult, and I walked and paddled a lot as a middle aged adult.

To paraphrase my aol doctor: "Getting old sucks, doesn't it?"

It's a shame that people will have to be forced to get/be healthy, when it should be part of their daily routine!

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Thanks for highlighting the exception Jimmy but to say who the hell knows is shortsighted at best. You usually have something to add that makes sense but fat ass costs an average of 3X somebody in good health. It's not the crap shoot you depict above.

I dont know dangles. Many people I know, in shape, who exercise have knee, foot, elbow, etc injuries and are constantly at the docs. I've run most of my life and have all kinds of medical expense at podiatrists, knee etc. Look how many sports medicine places there are , who do you think is paying for those? Insurance Cos. Obestity is definitley a factor, but a healthy and active lifestyle adds A TON to medical costs.
how many kids are hurt in sports? I guess we should charge them more for insurance for being active.
Also, obese people should die sooner, thus requiring less health costs while healthier people will possibley live longer and incur more costs over their lifespan. I have no clue , let the actuaries figure it out.
Insurance is a business, let the business do whats best for them and their customers.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I dont know dangles. Many people I know, in shape, who exercise have knee, foot, elbow, etc injuries and are constantly at the docs. I've run most of my life and have all kinds of medical expense at podiatrists, knee etc. Look how many sports medicine places there are , who do you think is paying for those? Insurance Cos. Obestity is definitley a factor, but a healthy and active lifestyle adds A TON to medical costs.
how many kids are hury in sports? I guess we should charge them more for insurance for being active.
Also, obese people should die sooner, thus requiring less health costs while healthier people will possibley live longer and incur more costs over their lifespan. I have no clue , let the actuaries figure it out.
Insurance is a business, let the business do whats best for them and their customers.

"Many people I know..."

You can't make national policies based on your personal observations. I actually know someone who won more than $1 million in the lottery. That doesn't mean that the statisticians are wrong when they say the odds of winning are one in a zillion.

"obese people should die sooner, thus requiring less health costs "

That's definitely a factor (also a factor for smokers). But even with the shorter life expectancy, society pays way more to provide healthcare to the "average" smoker or obese person, than we do to the "average" active person. Because during their shorter lives, they rack up enormous costs, due to their choices.

"let the actuaries figure it out"

I believe they have. Let's see if we, as a collective society, choose to hold obese people as responsible for their choices, as we have long done with smokers (who have been paying more for health and life insurance for many years).

I'm 25 pounds heavier than when I graduated college. Time to fix that!

[The Dad Fisherman]

the only problem is defining obese. If you go by BMI a lot of people would fall in the catagory of obese.

I'm 5'11 and weigh 218...according to the BMI charts I'm Obese. Don't feel it, stay pretty active, Eat healthy, Blood pressure is fine, Cholesterol is fine.....But the chart says obese.

Calculate Your BMI - Standard BMI Calculator

[Sea Dangles]

You could say 50 pounds over obese on that chart and still get a large % of offenders.20 years ago we had 7 states listed as obese,now we have 7 states that are NOT on that list.Try being fat and smoking and get a $$$ penalty for being so stupid!

[PaulS]

A huge % (like 35%) of health care costs are attributed to personal decisions (smoking, weight, etc.)

[scottw]

right, if we could just closely regulate personal decisions with regard to eating, drinking and smoking, other risky activities and sex...we could eliminate a huge % of medical expenses and probably make Obamacare affordable..........

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by scottw

right, if we could just closely regulate personal decisions with regard to eating, drinking and smoking, other risky activities and sex...we could eliminate a huge % of medical expenses and probably make Obamacare affordable..........

Makes sense. Looks like Orwell was off about 30 years in his future view.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

right, if we could just closely regulate personal decisions with regard to eating, drinking and smoking, other risky activities and sex...we could eliminate a huge % of medical expenses and probably make Obamacare affordable..........

Or... hold people accountable for their decisions and make them pay more because of them.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Or... hold people accountable for their decisions and make them pay more because of them.

Or . . . let people freely choose and pay for the results themselves, instead of Big Brother forcing us all to spread the misery.

[Sea Dangles]

It really comes down to decisions and common sense. I don't blame a fat guy for saying it is their right to be fat. I also don't mind somebody killing themselves with cigarretes as long as I don't have to breathe their smoke. But they should also assume all expenses associated with their decisions. I don't think it should cost my family more to carry their self destructive fat ass. Trust me,when the top CEO's conference about issues like this they are steaming mad that their healthy employees are forced to share these costs despite making good decisions. But of course it ultimately affects their bottom line and that will be fixed eventually.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

. I don't think it should cost my family more to carry their self destructive fat ass..

I agree and you should be able to opt out or in to insurance as it benefits you.
Look - ideally the market should do the following -
Fitco Insurance - we offer low premiums for people who have low BMI, dont drink or smoke and exercise
Fatco Insurance - we offer high premiums and you can do whatever the hell you want in life and its covered.
Both companies can manage their own finances and coverage

I think Dangles and Johnny would be happy with that and I have no complaints. BUT - I get irked when we involve the government. Our governemtn should not get involved in personal choicies - religion, sexual preference, abortion, eating healthy, exercising, etc. None of your f-ing business what I do and choose to do.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I think Dangles and Johnny would be happy with that and I have no complaints. BUT - I get irked when we involve the government. Our governemtn should not get involved in personal choicies - religion, sexual preference, abortion, eating healthy, exercising, etc. None of your f-ing business what I do and choose to do.

I absolutely would be happy with that. When I first got my driver's license, I paid more for my insurance than my girlfriend did. Why? Because statistics show that young males are higher risk to insurers, not because of more frequent accidents over females but because when accidents do happen, there tends to be significantly more damage (and cost).

Why shouldn't the same risk-management be taken into consideration for people that live unhealthy lifestyles? I don't care if you smoke, drink, do drugs or eat yourself into a coma. What I do care about is when those actions affect myself and other responsible people.

I smoke the occasional cigar and usually have a few glasses of wine at the end of the day. If my insurance was going to cost more because of it, I'd make a cost-benefit decision to either continue and pay a higher premium or limit my intake to pay less. No different than the cost-benefit decision that should be made when buying a Mustang GT with the significantly higher insurance premiums that come with it.

The root of a lot of these problems is the system of employer-supplied insurance. Damn that Truman and his wage controls...