Trump vs Amazon

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You can also hyperinflate the market by doing what Obama did, borrowing a couple of trillion and dumping it into the market.
What would you have suggested he do at that point in time? Wait for things to sort themselves out?



OK, so when the inevitable correction/recession occurs, none of it will be connected to anything Obama did, all of it will be Trump's fault. That's "honest"?
Since the claim is made that all things good are due to Trump's policies, surely the converse must be true?

When the market goes on a tear for 9 years, it typically gives back at some point. If Hilary had won, we'd still be due for a correction/recession. That's the cycle. Sure, there are things presidents can do to make it more or less severe.
Would that be like cutting taxes and increasing the deficit in the middle of an expansion. Sure you have a short term "good" but long term?

You are right, assuming there's a correction/recession on Trump's watch, you can bet he will place all of the blame elsewhere.

We agree on one thing

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

We agree on one thing

"What would you have suggested he do at that point in time? Wait for things to sort themselves out?"

See, this is the dishonesty I was referring to. Both Obama and Trump took significant steps to try and help the economy. Both took risks, that as of now, appear to be working. You are concerned about the potential downside to Trump's actions, yet you have no concerns about what Obama did, because in your mind his moves were brilliant and necessary.

As of right now, the evidence shows both have helped the economy. You give credit to one, and issue dire warnings about the other. The one you give credit to, is a democrat, the one you cannot bring yourself to give credit to, is (supposedly) a Republican.

That's honest?

If the economy crashes tomorrow, all the liberals will say it's all Trump's fault (nothing to do with Obama), and all the conservative purists will say it had nothing to do with Trump. The truth is in the middle somewhere, as usual.

"Since the claim is made that all things good are due to Trump's policies, surely the converse must be true?"

Who made that claim? I have said many times, including on this thread, that the economy did well under Obama. Again, are you being honest? Who said all good things are due to Trump? Show us who said that, or admit you made it up?

"Would that be like cutting taxes and increasing the deficit in the middle of an expansion. Sure you have a short term "good" but long term?"

OK so today, you are opposed to increasing the deficit. What was your stance on increasing the deficit, from, oh, say, 2009-2016?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"What would you have suggested he do at that point in time? Wait for things to sort themselves out?"

See, this is the dishonesty I was referring to. Both Obama and Trump took significant steps to try and help the economy. Both took risks, that as of now, appear to be working. You are concerned about the potential downside to Trump's actions, yet you have no concerns about what Obama did, because in your mind his moves were brilliant and necessary.
When Obama did that the economy was in a tailspin, when Trump did that the economy was and had been growing. There is a big difference. Now we could discuss the fact that Trump claimed throughout his campaign, that all the economic statistics were false. When he was elected all of the sudden, without a change in methods or practitioners they became true.

As of right now, the evidence shows both have helped the economy.
Cite the evidence with dates that what Trump did produced a significant effect on the economy. You give credit to one, and issue dire warnings about the other. The one you give credit to, is a democrat, the one you cannot bring yourself to give credit to, is (supposedly) a Republican.

That's honest?

If the economy crashes tomorrow, all the liberals will say it's all Trump's fault (nothing to do with Obama), and all the conservative purists will say it had nothing to do with Trump. The truth is in the middle somewhere, as usual.

"Since the claim is made that all things good are due to Trump's policies, surely the converse must be true?"

Who made that claim?
I have heard Sarah Sanders say it numerous times, it is her standard line in every press conference.
“The economy is incredibly strong right now,” she said. “We’re infinitely better off today than where we were before the president took office, particularly on the economy. We have historically low unemployment and we actually have increasing wages for American workers.”
"The economy is stronger than it’s been in ages, ISIS is on the run, the remaking of the judiciary. Jobs are coming in at record numbers. There are historic things that have taken place in the first year."
“Lower taxes, higher pay and bonuses, more jobs and opportunity for all,” Sanders tweeted. “Trumponomics is Obamanomics in reverse.”
"Does the President have second thoughts about taking credit for a booming economy? Absolutely not," Sanders said.

This is the administrations standard message, I don't have to make it up, they make up plenty on their own.

I have said many times, including on this thread, that the economy did well under Obama. Again, are you being honest? Who said all good things are due to Trump? Show us who said that, or admit you made it up?

"Would that be like cutting taxes and increasing the deficit in the middle of an expansion. Sure you have a short term "good" but long term?"

OK so today, you are opposed to increasing the deficit. What was your stance on increasing the deficit, from, oh, say, 2009-2016?

End with a But ______________, typical gaslighting move.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

End with a But ______________, typical gaslighting move.

"When Obama did that the economy was in a tailspin, when Trump did that the economy was and had been growing. There is a big difference"

Yes there is a difference. But if there is a difference, why did you think it relevant to post stock market performance by president? Answer - that statistic makes Obama look good. But using your logic, after th ecrash Obama inherited, stock increases aren't the same as stock market increases after Trump.

The economy was not in a tailspin for Obama's last few years, yet he left quantitative easing in place. How come? And how come you aren't concerned about the ramifications?

Let me answer for you...as long as Obama was in office, the right thing to do, is whatever it was that Obama did. Since Trump took office, the right thing to do, is opposite of whatever Trump did.

Is that about right?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"When Obama did that the economy was in a tailspin, when Trump did that the economy was and had been growing. There is a big difference"

Yes there is a difference. But if there is a difference, why did you think it relevant to post stock market performance by president? Answer - that statistic makes Obama look good. But using your logic, after th ecrash Obama inherited, stock increases aren't the same as stock market increases after Trump.

The economy was not in a tailspin for Obama's last few years, yet he left quantitative easing in place. How come? And how come you aren't concerned about the ramifications?

Let me answer for you...as long as Obama was in office, the right thing to do, is whatever it was that Obama did. Since Trump took office, the right thing to do, is opposite of whatever Trump did.

Is that about right?

It's not what he does it's the consistent BS, I think he believes if he says it, it becomes truth.
How about one of his recent speeches on his standard subject to talk and do nothing about, Infrastructure.
2:09 p.m. — Trump begins with a reference to his election victory: “What a group. Remember, you can’t win unless you win the state of Ohio, right?”
2:14 p.m. — Trump falsely claims that a California project to replace a section of existing border wall...is indeed his own wall project...“We started building our wall. I’m so proud of it. We started. We started. We have $1.6 billion. And we’ve already started. You saw the pictures yesterday, and I said what a thing of beauty. And on September 28 we go further. And we’re gettin’ that sucker built. And you think that’s easy? People said, ‘Oh, has he given up on the wall?’ Nah, I never give up."
2:16 p.m. — Trump says the U.S. has been treated better on trade by its enemies than its allies: “Frankly our friends did more damage to us than our enemies."
2:24 p.m. — Trump falsely claims, “We got rid of the bump stocks. The bump stocks now are under very strict control.” His administration’s proposed ban on the firearm device has not been finalized.
2:34 p.m. — Trump falsely claims that he was opposed to the Iraq War “from the beginning.” He haltingly supported the war when radio host Howard Stern asked him in 2002, saying, “Yeah, I guess so. I wish the first time it was done correctly.”
2:35 p.m. — Trump appears to ad-lib a major foreign policy declaration that is at odds with his administration’s stated policy—claiming, with no details, that he will withdraw the U.S. military from Syria “very soon.”
“And by the way we’re knockin’ the hell out of ISIS. We’ll be coming out of Syria like very soon. Let the other people take care of it now. Very soon. Very soon. We’re coming out."
2:36 p.m. — Trump falsely claims, for the ninth time in office, that the U.S. has spent $7 trillion on Middle East wars...Trump then says, “Nobody ever heard of the word trillion until 10 years ago.”
2:39 p.m. — Trump expresses confusion about all of the judicial vacancies that greeted him upon entering office: “I don’t know why Obama left that. It was like a big beautiful present to all of us. Why the hell did he leave it?"
2:45 p.m. — Trump says he does not know what a community college is. He says community colleges should be called vocational schools, though those are entirely different..."use vocational, because that’s what it’s all about. People know what that means. We don’t know what a community college means.”
2:54 p.m. — Trump says America’s infrastructure is “like, in many cases, a Third World country.”
2:58 p.m. — Trump tells workers: “You’re restoring pride in this country again. Our country had very little pride. Look back. See what was happening. Our country had very little pride.”
2:59 p.m. — “Even look at Roseanne! I called her yesterday! Look at her ratings! Look at her ratings! I got a call from Mark Burnett, he did The Apprentice, he’s a great guy. He said, ‘Donald, I called just to say hello and to tell you, did you see Roseanne’s ratings?’ I said, ‘Mark, how big were they?’ They were unbelievable! Over 18 million people! And it was about us! They haven’t figured it out! The fake news hasn’t quite figured it out yet! They have not figured it out! So that was great. And they haven’t figured it out. But they will. And when they do, they’ll become much less fake. May take a while, but it’s happening.”