HR 4269

[spence]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

I don't want to see our country end up like Australia

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-in-australia/

[buckman]

[QUOTE=spence;1089921]http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-in-australia/[/QUOTE

Did you write that Snopes article ?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-in-australia/

Yes, because what works in Australia, would necessarily work the same here. Because Australia is exactly like the US, Australia has just as many blacks, and shares a similar open border with Mexico, right?

We don't have a problem here in the US with Australian immigrants committing a lot of crime. Our violent crime is predominantly taking place within population cells which have no socioeconomic counterpart in Australia.

Spence, gun ownership is huge in South Dakota, yet there is almost zero gun crime. Gun ownership is very low in Chicago, yet every weekend looks like a re-enactment of D-Day at Omaha Beach.

There is one, and exactly one, reason for these facts...cultural values (or lack thereof) will ultimately determine crime rates, moreso than the existence of guns.

There's also that pesky Constitution. Despite what the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave believes, we don't get to ignore the parts of the Constitution we don't happen to like. Australia, as far as I know, isn't bound by the same constitution.

Encourage people in Chicago to behave more like people in South Dakota, and then it doesn't matter if everyone owns a machine gun. Liberal policies have the exact opposite effect, they have incentivized exactly what we are seeing in Chicago every weekend.

When you plant potatoes, you get potatoes. For reasons that I will never grasp, liberals cannot comprehend that notion.

[buckman]

[QUOTE=wdmso;1089904]It's a gun volume issue if you follow the 2a guys only logic that gun laws attack law abiding gun owners ? Then were are all the illegal guns com ing from? If all sales need to go through a dealer As I have stated before have as many guns as you want but they should be regerstered .. I served 22 years in the infantry and 28 years and counting as a correctional officer not a liberal past. But as it's been said by some others if the Nra keeps it's current stance as the lobby of NO! Sooner or later legislation will be Ram rodded down their throats..[/QUOTE

Like I said before. If making them illegal would prevent criminals from having illegal guns then where is all the heroin coming from in this country ?
Obama's executive order will not save one life. Check 2016 stats and I will bet you , you will see no improvement
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[Sea Dangles]

Like any other topic there will be some who are for it and others who are against it. I truly believe the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Certainly each side can present a compelling argument on their behalf and back it up to a degree that seems sensible to them. I have to laugh and shake my head when a moron calls those who choose not to bear arms a coward,hiding behind a gun is not my idea of bravery but it is certainly an escape you are entitled to. With or without a gun does not make one a tough guy.
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[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Like any other topic there will be some who are for it and others who are against it. I truly believe the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Certainly each side can present a compelling argument on their behalf and back it up to a degree that seems sensible to them. I have to laugh and shake my head when a moron calls those who choose not to bear arms a coward,hiding behind a gun is not my idea of bravery but it is certainly an escape you are entitled to. With or without a gun does not make one a tough guy.
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Derogatory labeling of members here doesn't do much to sway a person's opinion. A little respect goes a long way.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

Derogatory labeling of members here doesn't do much to sway a person's opinion. A little respect goes a long way.
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I have read nothing posted by said moron that would come close to garnering respect. If we all walk around trying to have the biggest gun then our society is doomed. I have never met Andy but I have heard he is nice and would be happy to wet a line with him. I respect that he offers his opinion but to call somebody who chooses not to carry a coward is placing himself at the bottom of the food chain. I have been involved with a brave gun toter that decided to point it at me in a street fight,poor guy ended up peeing himself before sleepy time. Ha,another brave guy with a gun.
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[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I have read nothing posted by said moron that would come close to garnering respect. If we all walk around trying to have the biggest gun then our society is doomed. I have never met Andy but I have heard he is nice and would be happy to wet a line with him. I respect that he offers his opinion but to call somebody who chooses not to carry a coward is placing himself at the bottom of the food chain. I have been involved with a brave gun toter that decided to point it at me in a street fight,poor guy ended up peeing himself before sleepy time. Ha,another brave guy with a gun.
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Which is dumber pulling a gun in a street fight or attacking someone with a gun pointed at you. I wonder what kept him from pulling the trigger.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

Which is dumber pulling a gun in a street fight or attacking someone with a gun pointed at you. I wonder what kept him from pulling the trigger.
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Ha,I was young and dumb,now old and dumb.
He was a coward hiding behind a gun.
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[tysdad115]

I have to laugh at people who want restrictions on something they don't even know what they are.

[nightfighter]

So here is a prime example why I do not my rights limited by this proposed bill; North Hollywood Bank of America robbery and shootout. Look it up. The bad guys illegally modified their guns to be automatic. They were using 7.65x39 ammo. Also wore body armor, which defeated the police issued 9mm and .38sp ammo. Perps were walking, driving, shooting without deterrent. Police had to commandeer AR15s from a local gun shop in order to turn the tide in the resulting shoot out!
As I once told my son, when you are in a fight that involves physical bodily damage, you don't fight fairly. You fight to win. I do not want to be outgunned. Ever. No way I am going to be without a SHTF weapon available, safely locked, but available.

[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

So here is a prime example why I do not my rights limited by this proposed bill; North Hollywood Bank of America robbery and shootout. Look it up. The bad guys illegally modified their guns to be automatic. They were using 7.65x39 ammo. Also wore body armor, which defeated the police issued 9mm and .38sp ammo. Perps were walking, driving, shooting without deterrent. Police had to commandeer AR15s from a local gun shop in order to turn the tide in the resulting shoot out!
As I once told my son, when you are in a fight that involves physical bodily damage, you don't fight fairly. You fight to win. I do not want to be outgunned. Ever. No way I am going to be without a SHTF weapon available, safely locked, but available.

So what, you can engage with the bad guys as they attempt to flee? Let the SWAT team handle it, events like this are pretty rare.

[wdmso]

So where do theses gang bangers and criminals who legally cannot buy a gun.. get their guns?

Are they being supplied from? Legal owners ? or irresponsible owners? i think below gives us our answer ...


1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released today by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). This number represents an estimated average of 232,400 firearms stolen each year— about 172,000 stolen during burglaries and 60,300 stolen during other property crimes.

[Slipknot]

Chris, he may be an A hole but he is far from being a moron

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So where do theses gang bangers and criminals who legally cannot buy a gun.. get their guns?

if we knew that, we would tell the police so they could lock them up to be prosecuted and sent to prison.

build more prisons

[redlite]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So where do theses gang bangers and criminals who legally cannot buy a gun.. get their guns?

Are they being supplied from? Legal owners ? or irresponsible owners? i think below gives us our answer ...


1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released today by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). This number represents an estimated average of 232,400 firearms stolen each year— about 172,000 stolen during burglaries and 60,300 stolen during other property crimes.

Guy on my hockey team is head of NB gun unit. He has been very busy lately. I asked him last nite where they are comin from and he said most of them are comin from house robberies or the such. He said a lot of the guns they take off street or used in the soarin murder rate are stolen from old family members that dont even know they are gone. A lot comes back to laws regarding proper securing and storage of firearms.
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[nightfighter]

Spence, as I have stated in these forums previously, when I choose to carry a weapon, I do not go looking for trouble. I carry in the event trouble chooses to come to me.
I am no vigilante. Not looking to engage anything beyond a paper or steel target. The only useful statement in your post is that these events are pretty rare. True enough. My point was when trouble arises, the perps come prepared to pack a punch. Why should Obama's 124 Democratic reps think I should not have the right to punch back equally?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

So what, you can engage with the bad guys as they attempt to flee? Let the SWAT team handle it, events like this are pretty rare.

Correct, these are pretty rare. What's much more common, are garden-variety shootings. Or accidents where kids get ahold of improperly stored guns.

I don't own a gun. I won't keep one in a house with little kids, that's just my belief.

But I do believe in the Constitution (even the parts I don't like), so we need to be careful here.

Liberals, as is often the case, are myopic on this subject. When it comes to the issue of gun violence, 99.99% of their effort is spent on gun control. That's part of the solution. But we also need to talk about making it easier to institutionalize the mentally ill before they hurt someone - liberals tend to be uncomfortable with this. We also need to talk about the violence we bombard our kids with - liberals tend to be uncomfortable talking about that (Hollywood gives huge $$ to Democrats, just like the NRA gives huge $$ to the GOP). And finally, we need to talk about implementing public policy that encourages (rather than undermines and mocks) traditional family values - liberals cannot stand talking about this, despite the fact that nothing would reduce violence more than this.

Part of the conversation is gun control. A small part. But liberals are fanatically fixated on this one small piece of the puzzle. Because they don't want to solve the problem if it means alienating their voting base. So they focus on gun control, and then accuse the GOP of not caring about the issue. That way, they can claim that they care, and as always, label the GOP as bloodthirsty hatemongers.

[ecduzitgood]

The preferred gun is a ghost gun that has no record.
And when I say ghost gun I am referring to guns that are made in the shacks of poverty ridden third world countries like the Philippines. Exact copies of legal guns with no record that would cause arrest if the police find you in possession of a gun.
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[PaulS]

Just saw this.

http://www.vpc.org/fact-sheets/state...-by-rate-2014/

State Firearm Death Rates, Ranked by Rate, 2014

Rank State Rate
1 Alaska 19.68
2 Louisiana 19.27
3 Mississippi 18.27
4 Alabama 16.81
5 Montana 16.80
6 Arkansas 16.72
7 New Mexico 16.30
8 Wyoming 15.92
9 South Carolina 15.87
10 Oklahoma 15.76
11 Tennessee 15.57
12 Missouri 15.55
13 West Virginia 15.46
14 Nevada 15.11
15 Kentucky 14.37
16 Georgia 13.78
17 Arizona 13.77
18 Idaho 13.03
19 North Dakota 12.98
20 Oregon 12.52
21 Indiana 12.40
22 Colorado 12.38
23 North Carolina 12.13
24 Florida 12.11
25 Utah 11.45
26 Kansas 11.33
27 Michigan 11.05
28 Vermont 11.01
29 Delaware 10.90
30 Pennsylvania 10.87
31 Virginia 10.68
32 Texas 10.56
33 Ohio 10.44
34 South Dakota 10.43
35 Maine 10.00
36 Washington 9.94
37 Nebraska 9.51
38 New Hampshire 9.19
39 Illinois 9.15
40 Maryland 9.14
41 Wisconsin 8.46
42 Iowa 7.76
43 California 7.58
44 Minnesota 6.91
45 New Jersey 5.24
46 Connecticut 5.20
47 New York 4.43
48 Massachusetts 3.37
49 Rhode Island 3.22
50 Hawaii 2.82
. National Firearm Death Rate 10.54

*Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Just saw this.

http://www.vpc.org/fact-sheets/state...-by-rate-2014/

State Firearm Death Rates, Ranked by Rate, 2014

Rank State Rate
1 Alaska 19.68
2 Louisiana 19.27
3 Mississippi 18.27
4 Alabama 16.81
5 Montana 16.80
6 Arkansas 16.72
7 New Mexico 16.30
8 Wyoming 15.92
9 South Carolina 15.87
10 Oklahoma 15.76
11 Tennessee 15.57
12 Missouri 15.55
13 West Virginia 15.46
14 Nevada 15.11
15 Kentucky 14.37
16 Georgia 13.78
17 Arizona 13.77
18 Idaho 13.03
19 North Dakota 12.98
20 Oregon 12.52
21 Indiana 12.40
22 Colorado 12.38
23 North Carolina 12.13
24 Florida 12.11
25 Utah 11.45
26 Kansas 11.33
27 Michigan 11.05
28 Vermont 11.01
29 Delaware 10.90
30 Pennsylvania 10.87
31 Virginia 10.68
32 Texas 10.56
33 Ohio 10.44
34 South Dakota 10.43
35 Maine 10.00
36 Washington 9.94
37 Nebraska 9.51
38 New Hampshire 9.19
39 Illinois 9.15
40 Maryland 9.14
41 Wisconsin 8.46
42 Iowa 7.76
43 California 7.58
44 Minnesota 6.91
45 New Jersey 5.24
46 Connecticut 5.20
47 New York 4.43
48 Massachusetts 3.37
49 Rhode Island 3.22
50 Hawaii 2.82
. National Firearm Death Rate 10.54

*Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

I assume those numbers also include suicide and accidental deaths by firearm or is it just the homicide rate?
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[PaulS]

I don't know. Here is the link from the original story that lead me to that chart.

http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/C...te-6738257.php

[MAC]

I'd bet if you took out suicides and gang related incidents the #s would fall dramatically.

Liberal media won't delve into that though. Doesn't fit the agenda.

GO TRUMP