Is this the Place?

[Grapenuts]

Originally Posted by Tagger

Good info there ,,, wish I saw that first ... I got a couple of surface,, out the butt Jerry's way ,,,whoops ?? .. Did make some needles that way too .. That's funny because JS started, just screwing the barrel swivel to the bottom of the plug ..and later went to out the butt method ..

I do beleive JS only made so many an then handed everything over to fishmaster..were they made a few changes like making the body longer and out the butt swivel for their convience.

[Grapenuts]

d-post..?

[Diggin Jiggin]

Originally Posted by numbskull

GOD I HATE EPOXY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been pretty lucky so far this year.

I ran out of sys 3 clearcoat so I ordered some more, when I opened it I was suprised to see how clear the hardener was. The last of my old hardener was very dark yellow, the new stuffs almost clear.

I've been heating my plugs before I epoxy them (The basements cold) and it seems like that lets the epoxy go on easier. I flipped the last set of darters and I was suprised how quickly the cool air made the clear coat stop running. I bet I only needed to flip 2 or 3 times in the first 30 minutes or so.

[chrisjoe13]

Mistakes I made this time:
-during epoxy sealing, dropped a plug, spilling thinned epoxy all over
-countersunk belly grommets a little too deep
-dropped (more than one) on cement floor after paint but before clear coat
-scratched tail end of a few while doing tailwraps
-dropped one while 'flipping', had 6" dust bunnies on it when I picked it up
-some tail wraps look good, others look like I've never seen one before
-painted over some scales by mistake (there is a one side scaled plug)
-and of course the mandatory abundance of dust and bubbles!

[chrisjoe13]

here a pic of my current dust collection unit.

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by numbskull

GOD I HATE EPOXY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL. I am going to do my first batch today. Got to hit church first, Our Lady of Perpetual Motion, to pray to saint George the patron saint of top coats for a little help.


Diggin the hardener will eventually get yellow. Doesn't seem to effect the stuff though

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by Diggin Jiggin

Eddie, just for kicks I tried that scale with the circle thing. I'm almost 2 hours in and its still not done.

My first thought when i saw that technique is nice but way too long in application which equals way to many instances for me to screw up. I will just admire others attempts and not bother.

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by pbadad

Good Morning to all you plug afficienodos. I'm done with with my original plan. I have a few dozen bodies to make for friends who want to finish them as kits. I too George had some epoxy problems?? You would think after a few years of doing this epoxy finish with success everything is cool. "NOT". I've been hanging and flipping . I noticed "dry" spots on 8 of the same plugs and in the same place. Mind you human hands never touched these bodies after painting. Blew them down and finished. The bellies had unusual dry areas. I recoated the entire plug. Tried to spot in the areas but you can't get the blend right. Not that the fish give a S**t. Oh well never "assume" you got it by the "balls". The demons are out there.

Every year it always takes me a few batches before I get the hang of it, and I'm doing my first today so I am sure i will be posting how much I hate epoxy tomorrow. I'll do some crap plugs that I intend to fish today.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

GOD I HATE EPOXY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This might sound funny, but I've found the epoxy to be the easiest part of this entire process. This is due to the fact I'm setting them up on my rod spinner and proceeding like I'm finishing a rod. I'm only doing 5-6 plugs at a time, thus it will take me 8-10 sessions to get everything done as the system three takes a while to set up. I'll get some pics up later.

[numbskull]

It all went wrong.

Drying box too hot, maybe, caused pull away from the darter edges. New batch of epoxy, it skims in the cup and produces clumps when you brush it. That and too much dust in the shop. Some kind of silicone problem in the paint. So now I have 40 odd no-slip darters with pock marks and easy wear edges.

I want to build stuff for other people, but giving away this crap is embarrassing. It was all looking so good right up to that last step.
So it goes.

[ProfessorM]

OMG you should have never said that. Run fast to St. Mary's and pray to St. George or you will be jinxed

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

This might sound funny, but I've found the epoxy to be the easiest part of this entire process. .

Stay away from me. You are now TOTALLY jinxed, poor soul. The epoxy gods do not tolerate insolence.

[ProfessorM]

G. I had the clumping problem last year, same exact problem, skims in cup, clumps as I applied it, and talked endlessly to Mike Fixture about the problem and to system 3 about the problem. Might want to call them direct , they were a big help. I will see if I saved the e mails from them about the particular problem. I seemed to remember I solved it but can't remember what the out come was as I forget everything nowadays.

I now remember what they told me. They asked me what the stock # was on the bottles, they have a sample of every product they sell./ They then looked it up and then mixed a few batches of the stuff I had.The had the same clumping situation but told me if you let it sit longer after mixing ,before you apply it, it will eventually un clump and the end result is good. I will still see if I can locate the e mails we traded back and forth. MIke Fixture recommend a brush change which i did as I was using acid brushes and that also helped a lot too. I found some cheap priced nice disposable brushes on line that work great and won't break the bank. I know you were using a new brush this year. I don't think the clumping has anything to do with the brush though.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

G. I had the clumping problem last year and talked endlessly to Mike Fixture about the problem and to system 3 about the problem. Might want to call them direct , they were a big help. I will see if I saved the e mails from them about the particular problem. I seemed to remember I solved it but can't remember what the out come was as I forget everything nowadays.

System three begins to clump a little roughly 10 minutes after mixing. The clumps go away pretty quickly and are not an issue, although it seems kind of strange when they appear. Also, the clumps can be minimized a bit if you constantly stir the stuff and don't try to go back over the work you've done by adding more. I also applied all my finish with a popsicle stick, not a brush, and this minimizes bubbles and the like.

[Diggin Jiggin]

Originally Posted by numbskull

It all went wrong.

Drying box too hot, maybe, caused pull away from the darter edges. New batch of epoxy, it skims in the cup and produces clumps when you brush it. That and too much dust in the shop. Some kind of silicone problem in the paint. So now I have 40 odd no-slip darters with pock marks and easy wear edges.

I want to build stuff for other people, but giving away this crap is embarrassing. It was all looking so good right up to that last step.
So it goes.

That sucks but don't worry about giving them out, no one will complain. Last year darters were the only thing I had problems with on the spinner, I'm not sure why but i think its because they're not symetrical and it couldn't flow evenly around the body like a round plug does. Darters are the only plugs I still flip...

[ProfessorM]

yeah no going back over. Better off waiting till next day. System 3 was a great help, worth a call. IMO it is hands down the best epoxy out there for plugs but requires a little more attention. Worth the effort.

G. I find 90 to maybe a 100 degrees plenty hot enough, you may have gone too hot as you said. Try a sample mix and see if you wait a while longer that the clumps will eventually dissolve. I only do 8 plugs at a time so I can wait a while longer.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by numbskull

It all went wrong.

Drying box too hot, maybe, caused pull away from the darter edges. New batch of epoxy, it skims in the cup and produces clumps when you brush it.

I want to build stuff for other people, but giving away this crap is embarrassing. It was all looking so good right up to that last step.
So it goes.

George, you might want to abandon the drying box and let them just spin for a day on your rod dryer as it seems to work best for me. My basement is about 70 degrees and the sys 3 sets up good in 12 hours and is real hard in 24. I can imagine the heated dryer will keep the stuff viscous longer than you want, thus the running problems may occur.

My stuff skimmed in the cup if I let it sit there too long and didn't stir it. If you treat the stuff like a cement mixer and keep stirring, the clumps are minimized.

Keep in mind here I'm doing small batches (30cc) and only coating 5-6 plugs at a time.

Finally, I hate to sound like a know it all on the sys 3 as I'm a rank beginner plug builder, but I've finished hundreds of fishing rods and the sys 3 properties are
much like aftcote properties with regard to mixing/applying, minus the clumping.

[ProfessorM]

Don't forget epoxy hates sharp edges and daters have sharp edges. I break all my corners on all my edges so the epoxy won't draw back off the edges. Might require 2 coats. I have yet to epoxy my darters yet, but all my other stuff has no real sharp edges.

[eastendlu]

Originally Posted by numbskull

It all went wrong.

Drying box too hot, maybe, caused pull away from the darter edges. New batch of epoxy, it skims in the cup and produces clumps when you brush it. That and too much dust in the shop. Some kind of silicone problem in the paint. So now I have 40 odd no-slip darters with pock marks and easy wear edges.

I want to build stuff for other people, but giving away this crap is embarrassing. It was all looking so good right up to that last step.
So it goes.

Good morning all.I am in epoxy hell also one whole batch ruined I am sick of it their has to be a better way.

[ProfessorM]

I find that keeping the box, spinner set up at around 90 gives a much better finish than just room temp, and also keeps the dust and pets, and wood stove and daughter away from the plugs. Mike you know about epoxy with the rods so yo are no novice. I also find something that works with one person sometimes won't with another. Everyone has to find their comfort level and what works for them, that is why epoxy sucks so much

[ProfessorM]

Hey G I luv ugly, clumpy, epoxied plugs and I bet Alan and Art do too.

[ProfessorM]

Mike I will say this I never had any luck epoxying plugs in temps that low. Always had some sort of problem with them. That is just my 2 cents. Like I said nothing ever seems to be the same for any 2 individuals.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

Don't forget epoxy hates sharp edges and daters have sharp edges. I break all my corners on all my edges so the epoxy won't draw back off the edges. Might require 2 coats. I have yet to epoxy my darters yet, but all my other stuff has no real sharp edges.

Two light coats versus one heavy is a good stategy for a difficult surface, no doubt. This is also how I would do a rod.

Been doing the plugs with one heavy coat. Admittedly, I do have some dust devils showing due to the fact I'm finishing in an open room versus a sealed dryer.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

Mike I will say this I never had any luck epoxying plugs in temps that low. Always had some sort of problem with them. That is just my 2 cents. Like I said nothing ever seems to be the same for any 2 individuals.

My basement is actually closer to 70 degrees, not 60.... my typo....sorry.

[ProfessorM]

LOL. Dust devils really only show up on dark painted plugs so I never really care. I also do one heavy coat 90% of the time. If I have a screw up I do another coat a few days later.

Have a good day guys.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

LOL. Dust devils really only show up on dark painted plugs so I never really care.

Did I mention cheerios, dog hair, and the occasional nose goblin also show up at times?

The old addage with plugs is every one is unique, right?

[Jigman]

Just finished wiring up and adding hooks to a batch for a swap on the other site. CCBC jointed striper pikie clones with a modified version of a Gary2 Smoky Joe paint scheme.



One that that I learnt with Systems 3 is that it really likes 70 degree or higher temps and low huminity. As with any epoxy, it doesn't like sharp edges as PM noted. I round edges at least a little with sandpaper, even on darters. Have used done the flip thing and the spinner thing. Both seem to work fine. Never tried the heater deal. Mix it well and evenly and keep above 70 degrees and you are fine. Its a little fussy otherwise.

Oh, and PM, its "Fixter"

Jigman

[eastendlu]

Only a machinist would get this one "Mike Fixture" hahahahahaha!!!

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by chrisjoe13

Mistakes I made this time:
-during epoxy sealing, dropped a plug, spilling thinned epoxy all over
-countersunk belly grommets a little too deep
-dropped (more than one) on cement floor after paint but before clear coat
-scratched tail end of a few while doing tailwraps
-dropped one while 'flipping', had 6" dust bunnies on it when I picked it up
-some tail wraps look good, others look like I've never seen one before
-painted over some scales by mistake (there is a one side scaled plug)
-and of course the mandatory abundance of dust and bubbles!

WOW

I think you are being too hard on yourself the these guys

sounds like correctable mistakes
a good craftsman knows how to fix his mistakes,remember that

[Tagger]

When You guys (especialy Backbeach) say system 3 ,, Are you talking about mirror coat ,,clear coat ,,? assume not sb112 ?