This is why Republicans are dubbed Obstuctionists

[JohnnyD]

"Senate Republicans Vow to Block Dem Legislation Until Tax Cuts, Budget Pass"
Senate Republicans Vow to Block Dem Legislation Until Tax Cuts, Budget Pass - FoxNews.com

I completely agree that these are the two most pressing issues right now, but this looks very much like a "play by my rules or I'm going to take my ball and go home" attitude. The Republicans need to refine their image and I don't think this is going to win them any votes from the middle of the road voters.

All the usual suspects here will immediately turn this into a thread about the Democ... I'm sorry... Liberals.

But in the spirit of attempting to tap into people's critical-thinking skills, as opposed to the usual propaganda - how do you guys think this will effect the public image of the Republicans in the eyes of Independents? What's the strategy behind making the announcement now with barely 3 weeks left in the year as opposed to right after, or even before the elections?

[RIROCKHOUND]

It's the same thing with unemployment extensions.
They are holding that card until the Bush Tax cuts are extended.

[RIJIMMY]

are you guys F'in kidding?


I just got a note today from the company that administers my commuter benefit, as of 1/1 the amount that is tax free reduces from $230 to$ 130 a month - that is unless Congress extends the tax cuts! You didnt hear about that now did you? So not only will I have a higher rate, I'll have more TAXABLE income due to the change in pre-tax exemptions! I have a BUDGET, I have expenses and BILLS TO PAY! So me, you and everyone in this entire country has NO IDEA HOW MUCH TAKE HOME PAY THEY WILL HAVE IN JUST OVER 30 DAYS !!!! Get it???? If the tax rates for EVERYONE increase, so will your withholdings in your paycheck!
So lets see - lets debate dont ask dont tell! WTF !!!! This is your weekly take home pay we are talking about! Real dollars!
Are you nuts - ITS THE HIGHEST PRIORITY!!!!
ITs Obama F-in promise too, remember??????????????

oh and PS - I am an independent and this is how I feel! Cut the crap and get it DONE!!

[Piscator]

Most people that vote, don't read or educate themselves on what is really going on. I might be a little bias but reading the article what I see is that the Republicans are saying they want to bring the tax issue to the floor first. They want to bring that to the floor before talking about a push to repeal the military's policy banning gays from serving openly, or the bill giving illegal immigrant students and military members legal status and an extension of long-term unemployment benefits. I agree the Tax discussion is the top priority. There is a reason (Taxes/Spending) why the Senate picked up so many Republican seats and they should be heard. They want to get to what they think is the top priority discussed first. In that discussion I'm sure there will be compromise. If an Independant looks at the headline and doesn't read the story, they won't get the whole picture in my view.

Again, maybe I'm bias....

[RIJIMMY]

taint no big deal?
below would mean - without factoring ANYTHING for tax rate or salary. I pay $1000 more in taxes ( I have 2 kids!)
So add in marriage penalty and tax rate - I'll be paying to less that $3000 in addl taxes - MINIMUM???

THIS IS NOT POLITICS BUT REAL MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!! I CANT AFFORD IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most ordinary people these days are paying a marginal rate of 15% or 25%. If we let the tax cuts expire, that might rise for many to 28%. Based on data supplied by the AICPA these ordinary folks would take a tax bump of anywhere between a few hundred and a few thousand dollars.

For a typical single filer with adjusted gross income of around $40,000 it might be about $400 a year.

For someone on $80,000, about $1,600.

How about married couples filing jointly? They'd get hit with higher tax rates and a lower standard deduction. (It was raised in 2001).

A couple earning $80,000 a year in adjusted gross income might pay about $2,200 extra. A married couple on $160,000 a year: Maybe $5,500 extra.

If they have children it would be more, as the child tax credit would revert from $1,000 to $500. Ouch.

[scottw]

you can afford it...so can "the rich".... shut up and pay...maybe sell some of those luxuries...

[RIJIMMY]

someone collecting unemplyment and has 3 kids will be paying $1500 more in taxes.

[scottw]

funny thing is that you know damn well if the dems could let all of the tax rates expire and raise everyone's taxes...they'd do it in a heartbeat...you have Obama now claiming to be the champion of keeping the current tax rates for the "middle class" for no other reason than the fact that it would be insane to increase the rates with the economy teetering...

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

are you guys F'in kidding?


I just got a note today from the company that administers my commuter benefit, as of 1/1 the amount that is tax free reduces from $230 to$ 130 a month - that is unless Congress extends the tax cuts! You didnt hear about that now did you? So not only will I have a higher rate, I'll have more TAXABLE income due to the change in pre-tax exemptions! I have a BUDGET, I have expenses and BILLS TO PAY! So me, you and everyone in this entire country has NO IDEA HOW MUCH TAKE HOME PAY THEY WILL HAVE IN JUST OVER 30 DAYS !!!! Get it???? If the tax rates for EVERYONE increase, so will your withholdings in your paycheck!
So lets see - lets debate dont ask dont tell! WTF !!!! This is your weekly take home pay we are talking about! Real dollars!
Are you nuts - ITS THE HIGHEST PRIORITY!!!!
ITs Obama F-in promise too, remember??????????????

oh and PS - I am an independent and this is how I feel! Cut the crap and get it DONE!!

Not surprisingly, your post has nothing to do with the point of the post:
"But in the spirit of attempting to tap into people's critical-thinking skills, as opposed to the usual propaganda - how do you guys think this will effect the public image of the Republicans in the eyes of Independents? What's the strategy behind making the announcement now with barely 3 weeks left in the year as opposed to right after, or even before the elections? "

and everything to do with:
"All the usual suspects here will immediately turn this into a thread about the Democ... I'm sorry... Liberals. "

Also, this is a load of crap:

oh and PS - I am an independent and this is how I feel! Cut the crap and get it DONE!!

You can't bitch and complain about everything any politician with a -D after their name says, while habitually calling out everyone who's opinion isn't directly in line with Conservative ideologies and then call yourself an independent. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

For someone on $80,000, about $1,600.

Except of course, that the plan of the administration would keep the Bush tax rate for everyone under $250,000. If you had the number for $280,000 then it would be a valid point.

I'm actually in favor of keeping the cuts for everyone under $500,000 or $1,000,000/yr to take any potential impacts to most small businesses that fall just above the 250K mark...

Johnny's point is that this type of obstructionism will revert independents back to the the left if they continue playing these games.

[scottw]

I would think that the "game playing" would be arbitrarily deciding who has to fork over more of their income to the govt and who doesn't and routinely moving that threshold depending on the political advantage

I'm ok with "obstructionists" when they're obstructing "destructionists"

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Johnny's point is that this type of obstructionism will revert independents back to the the left if they continue playing these games.

Exactly my point. My post wasn't about the policies they are trying to push to the forefront, it was about what, if any, public image issues may come out of these actions.

Piscator is right that most voters probably don't take the time to educate themselves on pressing topics, and it's exactly those people I have in mind when it comes to the possible ramifications to the GOPs public image.

People on the Right are immediately going to support the actions stating something along the lines of how the tax cuts will help the economy and we need to set the budget. People on the Left are going to say, "There go the Republicans being obstructionists again."

But what are the people truly in the Middle going to think?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Not surprisingly, your post has nothing to do with the point of the post:
"But in the spirit of attempting to tap into people's critical-thinking skills, as opposed to the usual propaganda - how do you guys think this will effect the public image of the Republicans in the eyes of Independents? What's the strategy behind making the announcement now with barely 3 weeks left in the year as opposed to right after, or even before the elections? "

and everything to do with:
"All the usual suspects here will immediately turn this into a thread about the Democ... I'm sorry... Liberals. "

Also, this is a load of crap:

You can't bitch and complain about everything any politician with a -D after their name says, while habitually calling out everyone who's opinion isn't directly in line with Conservative ideologies and then call yourself an independent. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

that was quite possibly your least informed post ever. Did you read my replies?
there was no POLITICS in my reply. My critical thinking skills tell me that I will lose THOUSDANDS OF DOLLARS IF THE TAX CUTS ARE NOT EXTENDED! EVERYONES TAXES WILL GO UP!!
the Repub strategy for announcing this? Congress just got back in session, they discussed their strategy and communicated it and btw - there are only a few weeks to resolve this! think about the amount of changes that need to take place from a payroll perspecitive. All teh IT changes! Massive amounts of coding changes! IT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED ASAP!!! Thats why!! Yet I watch the news and their debating Dont Ask Dont Tell? Thats a pressing issue??????????????????????????

johnny D - where in my reply did I say ANYTHING about democrats? Please enlighten me.

And just so you know - independent and conservative are not mutually exclusive. its a fact, I am not republican. FACT. I know how I registered. And as you say I walk lock step with all conservative thinking? Well, cut and paste this and put on your desktop-
Im pro gay marriage
pro choice
pro gays in the military
for more gun laws
I think global warming is real

Not one thing above have I ever stated otherwise, ever. RIR will back me up on that.

The repubs did the RIGHT thing we dont need another Health Care type debate - GET IT DONE!!!!

[RIROCKHOUND]

Yes,
I'll back up that RIJ has his own little party, but is basically an independent with fiscal conservative/libertarian and socially liberal.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Yes,
I'll back up that RIJ has his own little party, but is basically an independent with fiscal conservative/libertarian and socially liberal.

I'm in RIJIMMY's party. He's the best and smartest guy in here.




And I'm not just saying that because I'll do anything to get out on his boat.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Except of course, that the plan of the administration would keep the Bush tax rate for everyone under $250,000. If you had the number for $280,000 then it would be a valid point.

I'm actually in favor of keeping the cuts for everyone under $500,000 or $1,000,000/yr to take any potential impacts to most small businesses that fall just above the 250K mark...

Johnny's point is that this type of obstructionism will revert independents back to the the left if they continue playing these games.

Your blessed Dems are not on the same page with this either. They couldn't get a vote done when they had full control.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by buckman

Your blessed Dems are not on the same page with this either. They couldn't get a vote done when they had full control.

No %$%$%$%$. it's frustrating that both sides hem and haw until they have a month left and then try to get something done.

It is unfortunate that we have two largely unfunded wars ongoing, but we can't extend unemployment at least through the holidays....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

No %$%$%$%$. it's frustrating that both sides hem and haw until they have a month left and then try to get something done.

It is unfortunate that we have two largely unfunded wars ongoing, but we can't extend unemployment at least through the holidays....

the Repubs are willing to extend but want money used that is already been allocated elsewhere and is not being used rather than going further into debt....

I found this interesting

Unemployment Extension Battle In Washington Will Affect Only A Few In Connecticut
By MARA LEE, maralee@courant.com

The Hartford Courant
November 29, 2010

Last summer, Republicans in the Senate blocked long-term unemployment benefits for 51 days, and in the first month, almost 2.2 million people stopped getting checks. Eventually, they were paid for the time during the gap.

The same program expires today, and advocates for the unemployed estimate that another 2 million people will stop getting checks in December if Congress doesn't vote to renew it before representatives go home for Christmas.

Republicans in the House voted against the $12.5 billion program last week because cuts were not made elsewhere in the budget to offset it. The Senate has not yet voted.

In Connecticut, few of the nearly 80,000 people who have been getting unemployment checks for more than six months would be affected because of the way state laws interact with the patchwork of federal extensions. (Almost 60 percent of the state's unemployed have been out of work for more than six months.)

Compensation for the first six months of unemployment comes from a fund paid by employers and managed by the state. The next year and a week of checks are paid by the federal government, but the time was added piecemeal as unemployment rates climbed. When the legislation expires people don't get kicked off immediately, but as they reach the end of each segment, anywhere from one to 20 weeks from now.In states like New York, that means their checks dry up. And that will affect a few hundred New York residents who used to work in Connecticut.

But in Connecticut, unemployed in those segments, almost 60,000 people, will transition to an emergency program that's not part of the extension legislation, with 20 more weeks of coverage. It had been paid 100 percent by the federal government, but after the deadline, it becomes half-state, half-federal.

A few Connecticut residents will lose checks sooner, according to Chris Gilly, an operational support manager at the Department of Labor.

"I'd say it's in the dozens. It's not a large number of people," he said. "You couldn't say nobody's benefits will cease."

Those residents did a little temporary work in the past year, and didn't earn enough to qualify for unemployment, he said.


Copyright © 2010, The Hartford Courant


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[buckman]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

No %$%$%$%$. it's frustrating that both sides hem and haw until they have a month left and then try to get something done.

It is unfortunate that we have two largely unfunded wars ongoing, but we can't extend unemployment at least through the holidays....

No excuse for being unemployed for more then 2 years get a job or create one yourself. Alot of these people collecting won't take a job that pays less then they are collecting. I know several and they are out hunting this week while I work. The Holidays...your breaking my heart.

FYI...Mr. Independent started this thread by calling Republicans "Obstuctionists".

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

FYI...Mr. Independent started this thread by calling Republicans "Obstuctionists".

"Hearing is a Sense, Listening is a Skill."

I started this thread by stating that I agree with their position but think they are hurting their public image through the way they are going about it.

Then, I made what has been proven to be a futile attempt at promoting discussion by asking, "how do you guys think this will effect the public image of the Republicans in the eyes of Independents? What's the strategy behind making the announcement now with barely 3 weeks left in the year as opposed to right after, or even before the elections?"

Unfortunately (as is typical), most people in here are incapable of *discussing* a topic and just want to bitch and complain while repeating the same statements they do in every single thread here.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

"Hearing is a Sense, Listening is a Skill."

I started this thread by stating that I agree with their position but think they are hurting their public image through the way they are going about it.

Then, I made what has been proven to be a futile attempt at promoting discussion by asking, "how do you guys think this will effect the public image of the Republicans in the eyes of Independents? What's the strategy behind making the announcement now with barely 3 weeks left in the year as opposed to right after, or even before the elections?"

Unfortunately (as is typical), most people in here are incapable of *discussing* a topic and just want to bitch and complain while repeating the same statements they do in every single thread here.

affect

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

"Hearing is a Sense, Listening is a Skill."

I started this thread by stating that I agree with their position but think they are hurting their public image through the way they are going about it.

Then, I made what has been proven to be a futile attempt at promoting discussion by asking, "how do you guys think this will effect the public image of the Republicans in the eyes of Independents? What's the strategy behind making the announcement now with barely 3 weeks left in the year as opposed to right after, or even before the elections?"

Unfortunately (as is typical), most people in here are incapable of *discussing* a topic and just want to bitch and complain while repeating the same statements they do in every single thread here.

Man, you are pretty ignorant Johnny. I try not to insult here but your post was directly answered multpile time in a non-partisian fashion. Me thinks (as buckman noted , your thread title) you were just baiting to bash repubs. Sorry we are able to use our critical thinking and realize that you can BS around an issue or you can get it resolved. You view the action by the repubs as obstruction, I view it as getting it done. Lets see what the populace response to the repubs action is the first week in January and everyones paycheck is less. Will the blame the repubs?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

"Hearing is a Sense, Listening is a Skill."

I started this thread by stating that I agree with their position but think they are hurting their public image through the way they are going about it.

Then, I made what has been proven to be a futile attempt at promoting discussion by asking, "how do you guys think this will effect the public image of the Republicans in the eyes of Independents? What's the strategy behind making the announcement now with barely 3 weeks left in the year as opposed to right after, or even before the elections?"

Unfortunately (as is typical), most people in here are incapable of *discussing* a topic and just want to bitch and complain while repeating the same statements they do in every single thread here.

The Republicans are doing just what they were told to do in the election. Lower taxes and less spending.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

"how do you guys think this will effect the public image of the Republicans in the eyes of Independents? What's the strategy behind making the announcement now with barely 3 weeks left in the year as opposed to right after, or even before the elections?

If one just reads the HEADLINE of the article “Senate Republicans Vow to Block Dem Legislation Until Tax Cuts, Budget Pass”, There is a sinister tone to it (surprised it was from Fox News). There is basically one quote in this article from the Republican side and it is:

"While there are other items that might ultimately be worthy of the Senate's attention, we cannot agree to prioritize any matters above the critical issues of funding the government and preventing a job-killing tax hike," they wrote. "Given our struggling economy, preventing the tax increase and providing economic certainty should be our top priority."

This title could have also read “Republicans vow to focus on Legislation for 2011 Tax/Budget before all other Legislation”

So, how will this affect public image of Republicans in an Independents eye?
I think if the Independent just read the Headline it might be negative. If they read the article and actually thought about it, I would think they would not view it as negative at all, but as “prioritization”.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Piscator

If one just reads the HEADLINE of the article “Senate Republicans Vow to Block Dem Legislation Until Tax Cuts, Budget Pass”, There is a sinister tone to it (surprised it was from Fox News). There is basically one quote in this article from the Republican side and it is:

"While there are other items that might ultimately be worthy of the Senate's attention, we cannot agree to prioritize any matters above the critical issues of funding the government and preventing a job-killing tax hike," they wrote. "Given our struggling economy, preventing the tax increase and providing economic certainty should be our top priority."

This title could have also read “Republicans vow to focus on Legislation for 2011 Tax/Budget before all other Legislation”

So, how will this affect public image of Republicans in an Independents eye?
I think if the Independent just read the Headline it might be negative. If they read the article and actually thought about it, I would think they would not view it as negative at all, but as “prioritization”.

Bingo!

In trying to dig up some more information about the Republican's stance (couldn't find a copy of the letter last night), it was difficult to really find any decent reports from the Republican side of the coin. The emphasis of most articles I dug up last night and this morning either had little information on the Republican's stance or focused a fair amount on Reid's response that was basically, "This strategy is very cynical but very obvious and transparent." A recurring theme from both left and right leaning news outlets was the same as the first paragraph in the above article, "Every Senate Republican has signed onto a letter vowing to block all Democratic-backed legislation until the chamber extends the Bush tax cuts and approves a spending bill to keep the government running, Fox News has learned." (Emphasis mine.)

It was because of the consistent theme across news outlets focusing on Senate Republican's vowing to block all the Dem-backed legislation that made me think about how the Republican's vow is being presented to the public as obstructionist.

As Piscator stated above, most voters probably don't take the time to look further into political situations or reports. In the 24-hour news cycle we live in now, I believe that public image pays more dividends to politicians than their intent or even voting history (just look at how the landslides Frank keeps getting elected by). It's a shame.

Contrary to the words others try to put in my mouth ("You view the action by the repubs as obstruction, I view it as getting it done."), I don't view this vow as obstruction but I do think the people who watch left-leaning news outlets like MSNBC or CNN and even those that read the article above from Fox might.

As I stated in my initial post, the two issues that Republicans are declaring as their top priority should be everyone's top priority. Allowing people to continue sitting on their ass by extending Unemployment, allowing gays in the military, giving $4.5 billion in reparations to black farmers and American Indians and passing Food Bills have no where near the importance as settling if and how the Bush Tax breaks will be extended and funding the government free of pork.

[Jim in CT]

Johnny, a few weeks ago the independents swung big time to the Republicans, and a big reason was the looming tax increase. As Obama used to say 2 years ago, "elections have consequences" (funny he hasn't said that in the last few weeks).

If the GOP makes it clear that avoiding tax increases is the top priority right now, I don't think that's alienating independents. Rather, it's doing precisely what the independents elected them to do...to stop the runaway taxing and spending.

Here's some more critical thinking. During the second half of Bush's tenure, the Democrats didn't just roll over and agree to everything he wanted to do. Yet not once did I ever hear anyone refer to the Democratic party as "obstructionist". What I heard was liberals saying that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism". Now that there's a liberal in the white house, dissent is labeled as "obstructionist", or more commonly, as racist.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Here's some more critical thinking. During the second half of Bush's tenure, the Democrats didn't just roll over and agree to everything he wanted to do. Yet not once did I ever hear anyone refer to the Democratic party as "obstructionist". What I heard was liberals saying that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism". Now that there's a liberal in the white house, dissent is labeled as "obstructionist", or more commonly, as racist.

thats a good one

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Here's some more critical thinking. During the second half of Bush's tenure, the Democrats didn't just roll over and agree to everything he wanted to do. Yet not once did I ever hear anyone refer to the Democratic party as "obstructionist". What I heard was liberals saying that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism". Now that there's a liberal in the white house, dissent is labeled as "obstructionist", or more commonly, as racist.

Ouch.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Here's some more critical thinking. During the second half of Bush's tenure, the Democrats didn't just roll over and agree to everything he wanted to do. Yet not once did I ever hear anyone refer to the Democratic party as "obstructionist". What I heard was liberals saying that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism". Now that there's a liberal in the white house, dissent is labeled as "obstructionist", or more commonly, as racist.

Great point Jim...they hate when they are confronted with the truth.

[scottw]

too many examples to count

5 percent unemployment was a travesty under Bush...now 9.8 percent...ehhh, "the new norm"
Saddam was Hilter reincarnate during the Clinton years...Bush years...ehhh, just a nuisance
homelessness was a national disgrace under Regan, Bush, Bush....ehhhh, never hear about it now and there must be a couple at least
3 dollar gas under Bush...investigate the oil companies for gouging!!!....now, ehhhh, "the cost of fuel and utilities willl necessarily rise"...and there's no inflation
repubs win an election..voters were disenfranchised and stupid and scared....dems win and voters wisely gave dems a mandate to do whatever the hell they want

oh...and if you are a dem and disgrace the Congress for many years and get censured... you get a STANDING OVATION

such odd behavior

...remember this one? the treatment of Ken Starr vs. Fitzgerald?....I actually feel bad for the movie makers because based on what we were told and not told by the left, media and prosecutor...their movie would be quite accurate....but if the Wash PO editorial board felt it necessary to comment on the blatant inaccuracies...it must be really bad

Hollywood myth-making on Valerie Plame controversy

"It's accurate," Ms. Plame told The Post. Said Mr. Wilson: "For people who have short memories or don't read, this is the only way they will remember that period."