Trump tweeted he will "Address the Nation

[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

National Drug Threat Assessment Summary, October 2015: Mexican TCOs transport the bulk of their drugs over the Southwest Border through ports of entry (POEs) using passenger vehicles or tractor trailers.

So what you're saying is that the drug threat isn't real, the terror threat isn't real, the crime threat isn't real, undocumented workers don't take American's jobs and pay more in taxes than they consume.

But...

We have a crisis and need a wall.

[wdmso]

Seems Trumps base has lost its sense of scope and time ..

It appears if Trump gets his 5 billion will it be crisis over just like with the deadly caravan invasion.. After he sent Troops before the midterms it went away and the went home a month or 2 later???

Will the wall be built in days weeks years or decades ? So until it’s complete what then how do we handle this national emergency ....

It’s just another Trump lie and only his base is oblivious. unable to see it for what it is ...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Cool Beans]

I am amazed at how some of you guys can see and yet not believe anything.... Some days I think there is no hope for our great country. The evidence is overwhelming that there is a HUGE problem with our unsecured borders and you think that it's all perfectly fine....

I don't understand how you can honestly think this way....

[Sea Dangles]

They are idiots with heads in sand,real snowflakes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Drinking that High Octane Kool-aid

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I am amazed at how some of you guys can see and yet not believe anything.... Some days I think there is no hope for our great country. The evidence is overwhelming that there is a HUGE problem with our unsecured borders and you think that it's all perfectly fine....

There's the rub, nobody thinks we shouldn't pay attention to security at our borders. The evidence characterizes the problem much differently than the justification being used to push a half baked politically motivated solution.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

There's the rub, nobody thinks we shouldn't pay attention to security at our borders. The evidence characterizes the problem much differently than the justification being used to push a half baked politically motivated solution.

There has been no fully baked solution. A wall is part of the bake. The problem is being characterized by politicians on both sides. The push for "comprehensive reform" in the past was usually a ruse to put it off until other conditions were met first, such as passing continuing resolution or some such thing. The "reform" never actually followed. There is no fully baked reform plan being offered, and if we put it off till after we pass a continuing resolution, the plan will remain unbaked. That is the model, the evidence, of how it has been done to this point--your notion of how the evidence characterizes the problem notwithstanding. It depends on whose evidence.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I am amazed at how some of you guys can see and yet not believe anything.... Some days I think there is no hope for our great country. The evidence is overwhelming that there is a HUGE problem with our unsecured borders and you think that it's all perfectly fine....

I don't understand how you can honestly think this way....

I feel the same way, every day this clown is at the helm, I fear the ship will run aground for sure. The evidence actually shows the problem is half of what it was a decade ago and if the damn wall was so important, why hasn’t the millions already appropriated been spent building something?

You claim we see but don’t believe, let me use that same logic in retort. I am convinced his base listen to the lies and BS but don’t hear. This was and continues to be about Trump making sure he makes good on his campaign promise; although clearly that can’t ever happen since Mexico isn’t paying for it.

Nobody on either side is fighting against good border security and the need to be constantly changing strategies as things change. To hold the government hostage and put government workers livelihoods at risk over political BS is just wrong.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

There has been no fully baked solution. A wall is part of the bake. The problem is being characterized by politicians on both sides. The push for "comprehensive reform" in the past was usually a ruse to put it off until other conditions were met first, such as passing continuing resolution or some such thing. The "reform" never actually followed. There is no fully baked reform plan being offered, and if we put it off till after we pass a continuing resolution, the plan will remain unbaked. That is the model, the evidence, of how it has been done to this point--your notion of how the evidence characterizes the problem notwithstanding. It depends on whose evidence.

Comprehensive plans are out there, the problem largely has been politicians that can't come to terms with the fact that undocumented immigrants are an important part of the American system.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Nobody on either side is fighting against good border security and the need to be constantly changing strategies as things change. To hold the government hostage and put government workers livelihoods at risk over political BS is just wrong.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Speaking of political bs....how about one side actually endorsing the idea and then “changing strategies” because the the president changed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Comprehensive plans are out there, the problem largely has been politicians that can't come to terms with the fact that undocumented immigrants are an important part of the American system.

Your laying another slick nothing egg. A variety of tactical lying.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Speaking of political bs....how about one side actually endorsing the idea and then “changing strategies” because the the president changed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think the previous Congress did just that, but then couldn't accomplish anything with a new administration.
But now it's the Democrats fault

Meanwhile, I worked with Congress on a comprehensive fix, and last year, 68 Democrats, Republicans, and Independents came together to pass a bipartisan bill in the Senate. It wasn’t perfect. It was a compromise, but it reflected common sense. It would have doubled the number of border patrol agents, while giving undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship if they paid a fine, started paying their taxes, and went to the back of the line. And independent experts said that it would help grow our economy and shrink our deficits.

Had the House of Representatives allowed that kind of a bill a simple yes-or-no vote, it would have passed with support from both parties, and today it would be the law. But for a year and a half now, Republican leaders in the House have refused to allow that simple vote.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

Comprehensive plans are out there, the problem largely has been demagogue politicians like Pelosi and Schumer that can't come to terms with the fact that Americans want our country secure and for a path for legal immigration to work better in our system so they rile up their base claiming they beat their adversary as if it is some kind of contest battle but the people see thru them unless they drink the koolaid.

fixed it for you

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I think the previous Congress did just that, but then couldn't accomplish anything with a new administration.
But now it's the Democrats fault

Meanwhile, I worked with Congress on a comprehensive fix, and last year, 68 Democrats, Republicans, and Independents came together to pass a bipartisan bill in the Senate. It wasn’t perfect. It was a compromise, but it reflected common sense. It would have doubled the number of border patrol agents, while giving undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship if they paid a fine, started paying their taxes, and went to the back of the line. And independent experts said that it would help grow our economy and shrink our deficits.

Had the House of Representatives allowed that kind of a bill a simple yes-or-no vote, it would have passed with support from both parties, and today it would be the law. But for a year and a half now, Republican leaders in the House have refused to allow that simple vote.

Did it include funding the wall? If that was done, I suspect your bill would pass. And, I know, you don't believe the wall is necessary and would do little in stopping illegal immigration. But the other side believes it would make security overall better. Isn't that what compromise is, giving the other side something it wants if it doesn't essentially harm the goal?

[Pete F.]

Here's a look back at how Trump has explained why the U.S. needs a "big, beautiful wall":
AKA slick nothing egg speeches laid by Generalissimo Donnie Bonespur and associates

June 2015

Trump wasted no time pitching his wall, weaving it into his presidential run announcement at Trump Tower in New York.

During the speech, he set up the wall promise by taking a hard-line stance against Latino immigrants, labeling migrants coming from Mexico as “people that have lots of problems,” adding that they’re bringing “drugs” and “crimes,” and going so far as to call them “rapists.” He later added that they’re also coming from “South and Latin America” and “probably from the Middle East.”

“When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best,” he said. Because of that, he promised voters that he will “build a great wall” and “will have Mexico pay for that wall.”

Mexico later denounced Trump’s claim and multiple reports have been published that show undocumented immigrants, in addition to legal immigrants, are less likely to commit crimes than native-born citizens.

September 2016

In a major immigration speech prior to the general election, Trump lamented that the U.S. doesn't know the scope of the illegal immigration problem and laid out a series of threats that he claimed immigrants posed.

Trump accused Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton of promising "uncontrolled, low-skilled immigration that continues to reduce jobs and wages for American workers, and especially for African-American and Hispanic workers within our country."

"Most incredibly, because to me this is unbelievable, we have no idea who these people are, where they come from," Trump said at the time. "I always say Trojan Horse. Watch what's going to happen, folks. It's not going to be pretty."

To combat that, Trump said the U.S. should build a wall.

"We will build a great wall along the southern border, and Mexico will pay for the wall," he said. "They don't know it yet, but they're going to pay for it. And they're great people and great leaders but they're going to pay for the wall. On Day One, we will begin working on intangible, physical, tall, power, beautiful southern border wall."


January 2017


During his first address to a joint session in Congress, the president said a wall is the answer to the “pleas of the American people for immigration enforcement and border security.” He claimed that a wall would “restore integrity and the rule of law to our borders.”

“It will be started ahead of schedule and, when finished, it will be a very effective weapon against drugs and crime,” he said.

April 2018

Trump's justification for his wall demands took on a new dimension when a migrant caravan, which consisted mostly of Central Americans, started making its way to the southern border. Trump denounced the roughly 1,000-person caravan, and said it was another reason why the United States needed a border wall.

Trump also called on Mexico to stop the migrants, and threatened to make the enforcement a condition of the new NAFTA deal that the U.S., Canada and Mexico were negotiating at the time.

The full caravan, which happens annually, did not make it to the border and instead stopped in Mexico.

October-December 2018

Prior to the midterm elections, Trump began denouncing another caravan of thousands of migrants, mostly from Honduras, as a deadly threat, and repeatedly pointed to the caravan as further proof of the need for a wall.

In a dramatic move, Trump also deployed troops to the southern border to stop the caravan, and threatened to shut down the U.S.-Mexico border.

But soon after the midterms, Trump dramatically scaled back his talk of the caravan and did not follow through on his threats to take more drastic actions.



January 4

In one of his most recent cases for the wall, Trump claimed that his predecessors expressed to him that they wished they had built a wall.

"This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me," Trump told reporters last Friday. "And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it."

However, all four living presidents have denounced Trump’s plan.

Former Presidents George W. Bush, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter have released statements saying they have not discussed the border wall with the president. Barack Obama’s spokesman declined to comment, but the former president has pushed back against Trump’s pledge to build a wall in the past.

January 4-8

White House officials have falsely claimed that Customs and Border Patrol agents caught thousands of known or suspected terrorists at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Friday and throughout the weekend said that CBP had caught 4,000 known or suspected terrorists "that came across our southern border." Vice President Mike Pence on Tuesday morning also repeated that claim during an interview with "Good Morning America."


However, NBC News reported that only six non-U.S. persons that officials encountered at the southern border were on the Terrorist Screening Database from Oct. 1, 2017 to March 31, 2018. Thirty-five American citizens or lawful permanent residents that CBP came across at the U.S.-Mexico border were also on the database.

Counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway on Monday walked back the false claim, saying it was an “unfortunate misstatement.”

After the statistic was debunked, some administration officials began using a broader statistic to point to a threat along the southern border.

More than 3,000 “special interest aliens” were encountered at the southern border in 2018. However, the definition is vague and only includes that the person has traveled to or come from 35 countries labeled "special interest" following the 9/11 attacks because of historic ties to terrorism.

Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen in a series of tweets, however, noted that being on that list does not mean they are a threat to national security.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

fixed it for you

Support for President Trump’s border wall hit a record high in a new Quinnipiac University poll Tuesday, but a majority of Americans still oppose the project, saying it’s a waste that isn’t needed to improve border security.

The poll found 43 percent do support the wall, but 54 percent oppose it and say it won’t help secure the southern boundary.

But CBS News polling from mid-November found that a majority -- 59 percent of Americans -- oppose building a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border. It's a partisan issue, though. A large majority of Republicans support the wall -- 79 percent. A majority of independents -- 66 percent -- oppose the wall, and 84 percent of Democrats are also against it.

Yep it's all about national security

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Your laying another slick nothing egg. A variety of tactical lying.

Root cause analysis.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here's a look back at how Trump has explained why the U.S. needs a "big, beautiful wall":
AKA slick nothing egg speeches laid by Generalissimo Donnie Bonespur and associates

June 2015

Trump wasted no time pitching his wall, weaving it into his presidential run announcement at Trump Tower in New York.

During the speech, he set up the wall promise by taking a hard-line stance against Latino immigrants, labeling migrants coming from Mexico as “people that have lots of problems,” adding that they’re bringing “drugs” and “crimes,” and going so far as to call them “rapists.” He later added that they’re also coming from “South and Latin America” and “probably from the Middle East.”

“When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best,” he said. Because of that, he promised voters that he will “build a great wall” and “will have Mexico pay for that wall.”

Mexico later denounced Trump’s claim and multiple reports have been published that show undocumented immigrants, in addition to legal immigrants, are less likely to commit crimes than native-born citizens.

September 2016

In a major immigration speech prior to the general election, Trump lamented that the U.S. doesn't know the scope of the illegal immigration problem and laid out a series of threats that he claimed immigrants posed.

Trump accused Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton of promising "uncontrolled, low-skilled immigration that continues to reduce jobs and wages for American workers, and especially for African-American and Hispanic workers within our country."

"Most incredibly, because to me this is unbelievable, we have no idea who these people are, where they come from," Trump said at the time. "I always say Trojan Horse. Watch what's going to happen, folks. It's not going to be pretty."

To combat that, Trump said the U.S. should build a wall.

"We will build a great wall along the southern border, and Mexico will pay for the wall," he said. "They don't know it yet, but they're going to pay for it. And they're great people and great leaders but they're going to pay for the wall. On Day One, we will begin working on intangible, physical, tall, power, beautiful southern border wall."


January 2017


During his first address to a joint session in Congress, the president said a wall is the answer to the “pleas of the American people for immigration enforcement and border security.” He claimed that a wall would “restore integrity and the rule of law to our borders.”

“It will be started ahead of schedule and, when finished, it will be a very effective weapon against drugs and crime,” he said.

April 2018

Trump's justification for his wall demands took on a new dimension when a migrant caravan, which consisted mostly of Central Americans, started making its way to the southern border. Trump denounced the roughly 1,000-person caravan, and said it was another reason why the United States needed a border wall.

Trump also called on Mexico to stop the migrants, and threatened to make the enforcement a condition of the new NAFTA deal that the U.S., Canada and Mexico were negotiating at the time.

The full caravan, which happens annually, did not make it to the border and instead stopped in Mexico.

October-December 2018

Prior to the midterm elections, Trump began denouncing another caravan of thousands of migrants, mostly from Honduras, as a deadly threat, and repeatedly pointed to the caravan as further proof of the need for a wall.

In a dramatic move, Trump also deployed troops to the southern border to stop the caravan, and threatened to shut down the U.S.-Mexico border.

But soon after the midterms, Trump dramatically scaled back his talk of the caravan and did not follow through on his threats to take more drastic actions.



January 4

In one of his most recent cases for the wall, Trump claimed that his predecessors expressed to him that they wished they had built a wall.

"This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me," Trump told reporters last Friday. "And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it."

However, all four living presidents have denounced Trump’s plan.

Former Presidents George W. Bush, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter have released statements saying they have not discussed the border wall with the president. Barack Obama’s spokesman declined to comment, but the former president has pushed back against Trump’s pledge to build a wall in the past.

January 4-8

White House officials have falsely claimed that Customs and Border Patrol agents caught thousands of known or suspected terrorists at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Friday and throughout the weekend said that CBP had caught 4,000 known or suspected terrorists "that came across our southern border." Vice President Mike Pence on Tuesday morning also repeated that claim during an interview with "Good Morning America."


However, NBC News reported that only six non-U.S. persons that officials encountered at the southern border were on the Terrorist Screening Database from Oct. 1, 2017 to March 31, 2018. Thirty-five American citizens or lawful permanent residents that CBP came across at the U.S.-Mexico border were also on the database.

Counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway on Monday walked back the false claim, saying it was an “unfortunate misstatement.”

After the statistic was debunked, some administration officials began using a broader statistic to point to a threat along the southern border.

More than 3,000 “special interest aliens” were encountered at the southern border in 2018. However, the definition is vague and only includes that the person has traveled to or come from 35 countries labeled "special interest" following the 9/11 attacks because of historic ties to terrorism.

Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen in a series of tweets, however, noted that being on that list does not mean they are a threat to national security.

Old news.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Root cause analysis.

Shmugagee.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I am amazed at how some of you guys can see and yet not believe anything.... Some days I think there is no hope for our great country. The evidence is overwhelming that there is a HUGE problem with our unsecured borders and you think that it's all perfectly fine....

I don't understand how you can honestly think this way....

And there were WMDS in Iraq ..... please what is there to see ? WHAT is being hidden from the nation and by whom? What evidence ?

Trumps administration constantly lies then when confronted with actual facts changes course

Sanders on Friday told “Fox & Friends” that “nearly 4,000 known or suspected terrorists” had crossed into the U.S. from Mexico last year. She cited the statistic again two days later on “Fox News Sunday,”

Kellyanne Conway On Sarah Sanders’ False Border Claim: ‘Everyone Makes Mistakes’


Yea OK same mistake 2 days later.

there is no hope for our country when many who voted for Donald Trump After 2 YEARS think he is the best POTUS in their life times and is good for America

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Support for President Trump’s border wall hit a record high in a new Quinnipiac University poll Tuesday, but a majority of Americans still oppose the project, saying it’s a waste that isn’t needed to improve border security.

The poll found 43 percent do support the wall, but 54 percent oppose it and say it won’t help secure the southern boundary.

But CBS News polling from mid-November found that a majority -- 59 percent of Americans -- oppose building a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border. It's a partisan issue, though. A large majority of Republicans support the wall -- 79 percent. A majority of independents -- 66 percent -- oppose the wall, and 84 percent of Democrats are also against it.

Yep it's all about national security

Yup. It is. I took a poll among my friends. 100% for the wall.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Yup. It is. I took a poll among my friends. 100% for the wall.

Does that consist of, me, myself and I?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by spence
Root cause analysis.

Originally Posted by detbuch

Shmugagee.

I think you’ve put him over the edge of his flat earth
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Does that consist of, me, myself and I?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Slanting again?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Slanting again?

Just wondering, seemed like a rapid retort
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I think you are spot on.

Wouldn’t one think that our crumbling infrastructure is more important to fund than an archaic wall??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

infastructure is trillions. How many times did you complain from 2009-2016, that infastructure was ignored? Just curious. Or did it only start concerning you in 2017...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Comprehensive plans are out there, the problem largely has been politicians that can't come to terms with the fact that undocumented immigrants are an important part of the American system.

No, they're not. There isn't the same demand for unskilled labor that there was a generation ago.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Just wondering, seemed like a rapid retort
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Actually, everyone I know that I've discussed this with, including my black Democrat friends, are in favor of the wall.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Actually, everyone I know that I've discussed this with, including my black Democrat friends, are in favor of the wall.

I think most people are in favor of border security, just not a big tall beautiful etc etc wall from sea to shining sea.
If the Generalissimo was a skilled politician and negotiater rather than a reality tv star he would probably be able to obtain what is needed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I think most people are in favor of border security, just not a big tall beautiful etc etc wall from sea to shining sea.
If the Generalissimo was a skilled politician and negotiater rather than a reality tv star he would probably be able to obtain what is needed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think he would be more popular if he would handle what his opponents or the Press say about him more like Reagan did. But that won't happen. And it would only be the backing of public popularity that would persuade his opponents to compromise. He doesn't seem to lack negotiating skills outside of dealing with Democrats. This is a critical time in determining the direction the country will take, especially for the Progressive agenda. And Trump, being an outsider to the normal politicking that has been so favorable to that agenda over the last several decades, makes him a threat that needs to be squelched. So, without a large public support that can scare the Dems into compromising, they won't. And the Progressive minded Republicans may not ultimately back him.