Cairo

[scottw]

[QUOTE=spence;836216]

What's perhaps most important is that one of the largest Islamic nations has led a completely peaceful coup. -spence[/QUOTE

right, almost noone died or was injured.....

A-jad and Chavez like democracy too and Obama, Carter etc. approve of those "democracies"

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

right, almost noone died or was injured....

This wasn't a violent protest...certainly there was some, especially with what looks to have been police instigation or the general break down of control leading to criminal activity, but this didn't appear to be driven by the thrust of the protesters.

Hell, I remember fires in the streets, people being beaten up, bottles thrown at police and getting tear gassed.

VEISHA at Iowa State 1994

-spence

[scottw]

By Tom Perry

CAIRO, Feb 9 (Reuters) - In Tahrir Square, the memory of young Egyptians killed in the revolt against President Hosni Mubarak has mobilised more opposition to his 30-year rule.

For those who saw fellow protesters die, some clubbed by men claiming loyalty to Mubarak, others shot by police, the toll of "martyrs of the revolution" has hardened their resolve.

......................

"All (four) were killed by gunshot, with one hit in the head," said Dr Mohammed Ismail, at a makeshift clinic in Abdulmenem Riad Square, next to Tahrir (Liberation) Square, taking the death toll over the past 24 hours to seven.

..........................

"Most of the casualties came in in the last three hours, many with gunshot wounds," he told AFP early morning, putting the total wounded toll since Wednesday at more than 1,000 people.

...........................

One in 10 people have some kind of visible injury, an AFP correspondent said, with volunteers distributing food and clothing to the exhausted protesters

[scottw]

from yesterday's NY Times


“In the process many have formed some unusual bonds that reflect the singularly nonideological character of the Egyptian youth revolt, which encompasses liberals, socialists and members of the Muslim Brotherhood.

‘I like the Brotherhood most, and they like me,’ said Sally Moore, a 32-year-old psychiatrist, a Coptic Christian and an avowed leftist and feminist of mixed Irish-Egyptian roots. “They always have a hidden agenda, we know, and you never know when power comes how they will behave. But they are very good with organizing, they are calling for a civil state just like everyone else, so let them have a political party just like everyone else’

[spence]

Seems like you're talking about violence in opposition to the protests.

The military didn't seem to think it was that violent, hell, they just sat on their tanks. Even when it looks like Mubarak might have tried to provoke a violent response the people stayed pretty calm.

Perhaps you're just upset that a big group of Muslims aren't acting like the stereotype you want them to? Hmmmm...

-spence

[scottw]

you said "one of the largest Islamic nations has led a completely peaceful coup" ...not accurate...that's all...insinuate what you want....

[buckman]

I agree. For the most part, a peaceful protest that appears to be working. Maybe GB was right all along!!!

[Raven]

you also left out how many people were arrested and tortured who PAID an ultimate price for the rebellion .........

peaceful HOW?
because they were denied guns and only had stones

they even threw their shoes while running around on broken bottles
most of which were from Molotov cocktails

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

you said "one of the largest Islamic nations has led a completely peaceful coup" ...not accurate...that's all...insinuate what you want....

Mubarak didn't step down because of violence, it was because the people showed their strength through non-violent means. This is precisely why this event is so dramatic.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Mubarak didn't step down because of violence, it was because the people showed their strength through non-violent means. This is precisely why this event is so dramatic.

-spence

I didn't say that he did, but you should google egypt protests and click images and then come back and tell me that it was ...

"a completely peaceful coup....and....non-violent means"

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

I didn't say that he did, but you should google egypt protests and click images and then come back and tell me that it was ...

"a completely peaceful coup....and....non-violent means"

I think you're just a little frustrated BO will take credit for this

-spence

[scottw]

according to BO, Panetta and Clapper, the only thing they know is what they learn from watching the news, so...while I'm sure you will cheerfully heap credit on him till it turns bad...not really sure what he had to do with anything....

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

according to BO, Panetta and Clapper, the only thing they know is what they learn from watching the news, so...while I'm sure you will cheerfully heap credit on him till it turns bad...not really sure what he had to do with anything....

I'm sure they love Drudge reporting (and Salty broadcasting) that the Admin is out to lunch.

Then the Islamists can't accuse the US of meddling in Muslim affairs

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I think you're just a little frustrated BO will take credit for this

-spence

Hmmm, I thought the blood soaked peaceful protesters deserve the credit!! But you are dead on, He will take credit for it.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Hmmm, I thought the blood soaked peaceful protesters deserve the credit!! But you are dead on, He will take credit for it.

It happened on his watch, if it turns into a disaster he'll get all the blame.

Looks like Google might get all the credit, along with the protesters.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

It happened on his watch, if it turns into a disaster he'll get all the blame.


-spence

Little early, 8 hrs, to proclaim credit or blame.

Good idea to wait a year or two before making any judgements,
this is far from over.

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by spence

It happened on his watch, if it turns into a disaster he'll get all the blame.

Looks like Google might get all the credit, along with the protesters.

-spence

It is interesting how Google and Twitter are covering themselves in glory over this. They were not so quick to claim credit after the disturbances in Iran last year where the government was able to find and arrest dissidents by tracing their social networking accounts

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Little early, 8 hrs, to proclaim credit or blame.

Good idea to wait a year or two before making any judgements,
this is far from over.

Agree, as I said earlier...headed in the right direction.

Long row to hoe, but the pieces look to be there for something good.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by mosholu

It is interesting how Google and Twitter are covering themselves in glory over this. They were not so quick to claim credit after the disturbances in Iran last year where the government was able to find and arrest dissidents by tracing their social networking accounts

Ain't marketing great

Here it's interesting as a Google exec was actually there helping to lead the protests.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/tech...lution-20.html


-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Agree, as I said earlier...headed in the right direction.

Long row to hoe, but the pieces look to be there for something good.

-spence

the only organized opposition currently is the Muslim Brotherhood....
is that one of the pieces that you are referring to?


Bakhtiar dissolved SAVAK, freed political prisoners, ordered the army to allow mass demonstrations, promised free elections and [B]invited Khomeinists and other revolutionaries into a government of "national unity".[/B](sound familiar?)

again..NY Times two days ago,,
NY Times
“In the process many have formed some unusual bonds that reflect the singularly nonideological character of the Egyptian youth revolt, which encompasses liberals, socialists and members of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Other opposition groups[50] included constitutionalist liberals — the democratic, reformist Islamic Freedom Movement of Iran, headed by Mehdi Bazargan, and the more secular National Front. They were based in the urban middle class, and wanted the Shah to adhere to the Iranian Constitution of 1906 rather than to replace him with a theocracy,[51] but lacked the cohesion and organization of Khomeini's forces.[52] [COLOR="blue"]([B]who, like the MB were organized and ready to assume control when they took their place in the "unity government[/B]")[/COLOR]( I'm guessing the MB will be well funded and doing a lot of high profile charity work until the elections)

not predicting which way it will go and I'm certainly praying for a US friendly democracy or at least the beginnings perhaps modeled and inspired by Iraq rather than a hostile Islamist state but history seems to be repeating itself....trends in the area as a whole are not encouraging

don't know how many actual protesters there were but there are 7 million people in Cairo and just over 80 million in Egypt hoeing rows

maybe Obama is secretly behind the scenes directing the Egyptian Military and the events(at least that's what the BO loyalist would love to imply) and has everything under control...and he and his people seeming clueless and on completely different pages is just a smoke screen...yeah, that's a good one...I smell another nobel peace prize

http://www.yalibnan.com/2011/02/09/m...-waiting-game/
...............................................
In Uncertain Egypt, a Few Certainties

February 11, 2011 3:59 P.M. By Amir Taheri

However, it is clear to me that change in Tunisia was ultimately imposed by the army. In Egypt, on the other hand, the army tried to prop up Mubarak until the last minute. It was the popular uprising that forced Mubarak out. This means that we have just witnessed a genuinely historic moment: the first time an Arab despot has been forced out by a mass movement.

The second certainty is that the Obama administration discredited itself by praising Mubarak to the skies before trying to dictate his departure. That sorry exercise revealed the weakness of the United States while casting it as a fickle friend that might stab you in the back.

The third certainty is that radical anti-democratic forces are already preparing to ambush the new Egypt. The first move in that direction came from Syria last night when its official television station announced “the end of the Camp David peace” with Israel and urged the adoption of a new strategy to “face the Zionist foe.” Iran, though shaken by an Egyptian uprising that echoed its own pro-democracy movement in 2009, is developing a similar theme.
we should send Nancy Pelosi to Syria again to get that little situation squared away

[spence]

More fear mongering, you almost sound like you're trying to justify another invasion. Egypt isn't Iran, not even close.

Note: There are thousands of volunteers in Tahrir Square today cleaning up the mess. Hell, you can't even get that kind of goodwill at a Fish concert.

-spence

[JohnR]

The end of the beginning I 'spect. I hope they can find a way to pull together a workable, peace wanting democratic system.

In other notes: El Baradei said they could have a functioning government in a year yet the Muslim Brotherhood says it will take less time - wonders.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

The end of the beginning I 'spect. I hope they can find a way to pull together a workable, peace wanting democratic system.

Agree, but like I said before, Egypt seems to have a decent set of piece parts to make this work...it's certainly not going to be easy for the military to maintain enough control while reforms take place. Hopefully some strong leadership can rise up and keep the people focused on a common vision.

I think we should not be overly optimistic though, there's always the possibility of a radical Islamist take over, Sharia, the Caliphate and a new world order that swallows Israel and destroys America.

We should probably take this one day at a time.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

We should probably take this one day at a time.

-spence

Yup, there's more possible scenarios than Carter has pills.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Yup, there's more possible scenarios than Carter has pills.

Hopefully this is an indication of an initial direction...

After the statement, the main opposition coalition — a loosely based grouping of youth and traditional opposition groups — said it would end its main protest in Cairo's Tahrir, or Liberation, Square but would call for weekly demonstrations after Friday prayers.

The group also listed its demands for the first time during a press conference. Those included: the lifting of hated emergency laws, the forming of a presidential council and broad-based unity government, the dissolution of parliament and creation of a committee to amend or rewrite the constitution. They called for reforms ensuring freedom of the press, freedom to form political parties and more transparent media institutions.

The coalition also called for an investigation into allegations of endemic corruption within the regime and the trial of officials responsible for the deaths of protesters.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Note: There are thousands of volunteers in Tahrir Square today cleaning up the mess. Hell, you can't even get that kind of goodwill at a Fish concert.

-spence

or at an Obama innauguration....

not fear mongering, just looking at the facts...you appear desperate to wildly mischaracterize my views but offer very little other than the basic current talking point highlights of the Obama apologists

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Hopefully this is an indication of an initial direction...



-spence

brilliant stuff genius

[scottw]

Barry Rubin writes quite a bit on the Middle East...

"We should remember that as of this moment the regime is still in power, merely having shed its leader. The regime would have been happy to get rid of Mubarak a couple of years ago, not because he was oppressive but because he was getting too old and trying to foist his son on them.

In a sense, the regime has pulled off one of the greatest public relations' operations in history. By getting rid of one man it has transformed itself from being incredibly unpopular to wildly popular. If the regime can hold on--and the army isn't going to give up easily--the results might not be so bad as long as the army isn't radicalized. And by radicalized I don't mean Islamized but moving to a radical nationalist position."

RubinReports

[scottw]

Originally Posted by scottw

Barry Rubin writes quite a bit on the Middle East...

In a sense, the regime has pulled off one of the greatest public relations' operations in history. By getting rid of one man it has transformed itself from being incredibly unpopular to wildly popular. If the regime can hold on--and the army isn't going to give up easily--the results might not be so bad as long as the army isn't radicalized. And by radicalized I don't mean Islamized but moving to a radical nationalist position."

RubinReports

no way?



Egypt's activists skeptical about army intentions
Feb 21, 7:09 AM (ET)

CAIRO (AP) - Some of the young activists who launched the Egyptian uprising that toppled President Hosni Mubarak say they are skeptical about the military's pledges to hand over power to a democratically elected government.

They also warned Western diplomats in Cairo Monday that the remnants of Mubarak's regime that still hold positions of power could overturn the uprising's gains.

The seven activists - representatives of a broad coalition of youth groups - also called on the international community to support Egypt's transition toward democracy, and asked for help in tracking down Mubarak's assets - rumored to be in the billions of dollars.