Rumors or where there's smoke there's something

[Pete F.]

The dots connect, maybe it's true about Trumps consigliere

New report claims more whistleblowers have come forward to Democrat-led House of Representatives with claims of wrongdoing by Trump officials
Report says one whistleblower is alleging that Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law, approved Saudi plans to arrest Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi
According to Spectator, Turkey intercepted call between Kushner and Saudi Prince Mohammed bin Salman, and then used it to gain leverage over Trump
Trump agreed to remove American troops from northern Syria after a phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan
By ARIEL ZILBER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM and REUTERS

Jared Kushner gave permission to Saudi ruler Mohammad bin Salman to arrest Jamal Khashoggi before he was killed and dismembered, a whistleblower claims.

However, Turkish intelligence intercepted the call and President Recep Erdogan then used the information to force President Trump to remove his troops from northern Syria, according to the Spectator.

The report claims that investigators on the Democratic-led House Intelligence Committee are aware of these allegations and are planning to dig further into them while pursuing the impeachment inquiry over Trump’s dealings with Ukraine.

It also claims that the number of intelligence whistleblowers who are willing to give evidence to the impeachment committee is seven.

[Sea Dangles]

Shocking allegation there.😮

I wonder what will come of this story...
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Shocking allegation there.😮

I wonder what will come of this story...
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It's similar to what I posted a month ago about why Trump folded on Syria

Possible Trump motives

1) Protecting income flow from Trump Towers Istanbul

2) Payoff to Turkey to cover up recording of Khashoggi murder by Trump allies

3) Obeisance to Putin

4) Warning to House: if you impeach me, Ill burn every American alliance and interest before I go

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It's similar to what I posted a month ago about why Trump folded on Syria

Possible Trump motives

1) Protecting income flow from Trump Towers Istanbul

2) Payoff to Turkey to cover up recording of Khashoggi murder by Trump allies

3) Obeisance to Putin

4) Warning to House: if you impeach me, Ill burn every American alliance and interest before I go

Geez . . . you left out a lot of other "possibilities," many favorable to Trump's motives. But, I understand--rumors, possibility, maybe, conjecture, innuendo, could be, perhaps--these figure deeply in how you come to conclusions. But why are these verbal nebulae re you're analyses of Trump always selected from a negative point of view?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Geez . . . you left out a lot of other "possibilities," many favorable to Trump's motives. But, I understand--rumors, possibility, maybe, conjecture, innuendo, could be, perhaps--these figure deeply in how you come to conclusions. But why are these verbal nebulae re you're analyses of Trump always selected from a negative point of view?

There is a term for the exchange of U.S. intelligence or, worse, policy for money: espionage.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

There is a term for the exchange of U.S. intelligence or, worse, policy for money: espionage.

OK. Quit being vague. Are you accusing Trump of espionage?

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It's similar to what I posted a month ago about why Trump folded on Syria

Possible Trump motives

1) Protecting income flow from Trump Towers Istanbul

2) Payoff to Turkey to cover up recording of Khashoggi murder by Trump allies

3) Obeisance to Putin

4) Warning to House: if you impeach me, Ill burn every American alliance and interest before I go

Well,it seems you have determined that you were right all along. Good work PeteF.
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[wdmso]

TRUMP cant commit treason or espionage or tell the Truth .. in his and his faithfuls Eyes

He has unlimited power and can not be charged with a crime while in office...

He wants the whistleblower exposed .. regardless what the federal says ..

PETE, they only believe conservative generated conspiracy Theories
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

TRUMP cant commit treason or espionage or tell the Truth .. in his and his faithfuls Eyes

He has unlimited power and can not be charged with a crime while in office...

He wants the whistleblower exposed .. regardless what the federal says ..

PETE, they only believe conservative generated conspiracy Theories
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Very convincing. Brilliant stuff.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Very convincing. Brilliant stuff.

And what point wasn't True
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

And what point wasn't True
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None of your points are true.

Those who voted for Trump or "support" him do not believe that he can't commit treason or espionage or tell the truth, as you put it. They don't believe, without solid evidence, that he committed treason or espionage. And they recognize that he has told some lies and some truth, not that everything he says is a lie.

They don't believe he has "unlimited power". Many believe that it is Progressives who think that the central government should have unlimited power to do what it thinks is "good."

I am not sure, but I don't think that federal law gives a blanket immunity for a whistleblower from being identified.

And they're not more prone to "conspiracy theories" than anybody else.

[Pete F.]

If Taylor & Hill & Vindman & Morrison & Sondland & Eisenberg & Pompeo & Perry & Giuliani & Bolton & the still-anonymous whistleblower all knew what Trump was up to regarding Biden & Ukraine, how could Trump's 2nd banana possibly be in the dark?

Whatever Trump did with regard to Ukraine, Mike Pence was mixed up in it, too. We know that Pence read, or at least was given a transcript of, Trump's call with Volodymyr Zelensky. We know he met with the Ukrainian president in Warsaw. And we know that Pence had his own call with Zelensky—a fact that Trump himself offered up unsolicited, seemingly eager to spread around the blame.

"I think you should ask for Vice President Pence's conversation," Trump tattled to reporters, "because he had a couple of conversations also."
The president characterized his Pence-Zelensky calls as "perfect." Congress is not so sure and has formally requested transcripts of those calls.
Despite saying a month ago that he had "no objection" to releasing the transcripts, Pence has yet to do so.

The vice president has assured us of his innocence. "As I said the day after that meeting," he told reporters, "we focused entirely, in my meeting with President Zelensky of Ukraine, on the issues that President Trump has raised as a concern, namely the lack of support from European partners for Ukraine and real issues of corruption in Ukraine."

When asked point-blank whether he was aware of Trump shaking down Zelensky to implicate Joe Biden, the former debate team champion twisted himself into a rhetorical pretzel to avoid a direct answer. "I never discussed the issue of the Bidens with President Zelensky," Pence said.

[wdmso]

Ambassador Acknowledges Linking Ukraine Military Aid To Investigation

. military aid was tied to a public statement of "corruption" from Kiev,

From the newly released Transcripts ...

Cant wait to see the usual suspects excuse this away..

Must be an amazing unheard of coordination of witness and testimony by all these people..

Yet Trump supporters believe so many debunked theories. And now are convinced its a deep state attempt to overthrow the election because they hate Trump.. Maybe they just love American more.

Maybe his supporters need to start doing the Same .love their country more than the man
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[Sea Dangles]

These allegations,like all the others will pass. Get them out of the way and go back to the job at hand. MAGA!
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

These allegations,like all the others will pass. Get them out of the way and go back to the job at hand. MAGA!
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Make Associates Get Attorneys

My Attorney Got Arrested (again?)

Make America Grope Again

Morons Are Governing America

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Make Associates Get Attorneys

My Attorney Got Arrested (again?)

Make America Grope Again

Morons Are Governing America

Trump's version is nicer, gentler, more patriotic, positive, kinder, more inspiring, and all around better than yours. He seems to be a more pleasant and likeable person than you. PaulS might note that there is a lot of hate in you.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Trump's version is nicer, gentler, more patriotic, positive, kinder, more inspiring, and all around better than yours. He seems to be a more pleasant and likeable person than you. PaulS might note that there is a lot of hate in you.

America was Great before Floridaman, it will be great in the future, this will pass.
It will take a while to fix the damage done by him.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

America was Great before Floridaman, it will be great in the future, this will pass.
It will take a while to fix the damage done by him.

So you think that the "new normal" achieved under Obama with its slow growth, dying middle class, stagnating wages, and expanding socialism was great.
And you do not see that as damage. I know . . . I know . . . he inherited all that. Right . . . right.

And things in those areas, except expanding socialism and the "new normal" are improving at a more positive rate under Trump. And you see that as damage that it will take time to fix.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

America was Great before Floridaman, it will be great in the future, this will pass.
It will take a while to fix the damage done by him.

8 years is like the blink of an eye
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[Sea Dangles]

When America is winnining, Americans win. It’s too bad there is nobody opposing Trump that has a plan to help the old guard back to relevance.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Let's see


GDP
Jun 30, 2019 2.28%
Dec 31, 2018 2.52%
Dec 31, 2017 2.80%
Dec 31, 2016 2.03%
Dec 31, 2015 1.90%
Dec 31, 2014 2.88%
Dec 31, 2013 2.61%
Dec 31, 2012 1.47%
Dec 31, 2011 1.61%
Dec 31, 2010 2.57%
Dec 31, 2009 0.18%
Dec 31, 2008 -2.75%

Where's the damage that must be fixed? Also keep in mind that growth rate is not the monetary value of the economy. Rate would naturally slow when the size has reached a big enough level. A similar growth rate between a weak and a strong economy does not mean the economies are equal in value. In fact, a similar growth rate between a strong economy and a weak one would indicate an actual greater economic value in growth attained by the stronger economy.

Sales of new homes steadily grew under Trump and are much better than under Obama

Consumer comfort index constantly rose under Trump and is much better than under Obama.

People in employment rose steadily under Trump and are much better than under Obama.

Unemployment steadily declined under Trump and is much better than under Obama.

Size of the Economy is larger and healthier under Trump.


Median income

Dec 31, 2018 61,937.00
I didn't bother with 2017 since Trump needs a 2 year jump to not look so bad
Dec 31, 2016 59,039.00
Dec 31, 2015 56,515.84
Dec 31, 2014 53,657.47
Dec 31, 2013 51,939.48
Dec 31, 2012 51,016.86
Dec 31, 2011 50,053.97

What's the damage that must be fixed?

Wage growth
Trump’s own Council of Economic Advisers contradicts his “decades of flat wages” claim, saying 2018 was “the sixth consecutive year of positive real hourly earnings growth for nonsupervisory workers and the longest streak since the eight years of consecutive earnings growth from 1995 through 2002.” (The CEA adjusts for inflation using the Personal Consumption Expenditures Price Index, or PCE, not the Consumer Price Index that BLS uses.)

What's the damage that needs to be fixed?

Socialism
Trump’s tariffs are not only a new tax for Americans, but a policy of directly picking winners and losers in the economy. The interests of steel workers, for example, are being placed above the interest of consumers and farmers. This leads to the government using tax dollars to prop up farmers. Of course this spending means that tax-paying consumers are hit yet again, with their tax dollars being used for this new welfare program.

Government interventionism doesn’t simply stop there. The natural result of these new government barriers is for businesses to seek ways around them, such as Harley’s decision to move some manufacturing to Europe. This, of course, sparked backlash from President Trump, threatening further retaliation for such a move. As we've seen time and time again, the more Trump digs in to his support for protectionism, the more he will seek to interfere with the actions of individual companies.

Welcome to your New Normal of Lies and Exaggerations by the Greatest Con man

Tariffs are not a new tax for Americans. They were the main source of Federal income for the new nation. The Founders were also in favor of tariffs on foreign competitors of American business. They were very much in favor of protecting American business from foreign predation. They were absolutely "America First."

They were also very much for free trade so long as it was not destructive of American business or of national security. Tariffs would be applied to equalize imbalances in trade when foreign governments created it with its own tariffs or regulations that made their goods cheaper to make and sell and American goods difficult to sell. Tariffs also made it more possible for the manufacture of necessary weapons, critical for our defense and sovereignty, to be made in America rather than depending on foreign sources, especially when those sources might be inimical to our interests.

And Tariffs are not socialism. And they don't directly pick winners and losers in the American economy. They create the ability to have winners in the American economy. Harley is FREE to move if it cannot compete with other American companies. That is not socialism.

Trump's new "new normal" is much better than Obama's.

[Pete F.]

As long as you claim it it must be true
Long economic expansions are always felt as safer the longer they last.
This one started under Obama and has continued steadily since.
This administration has chosen which businesses had to pay tariffs.
Redistribution of income, choosing who can succeed is socialism.
Tariffs were the only tax the USA had for more than a century.
Trump is more protectionist than Bernie and he threatened to penalize Harley if they offshored their production to offset the retaliatory tariffs.
He’s a conman
🍑🤡
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[Got Stripers]

Damage isn’t tied to the economy, it’s withour allies and the lost trust in how the US values the agreements it enters into. The environment is the big loser in Trump world.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Damage isn’t tied to the economy, it’s withour allies and the lost trust in how the US values the agreements it enters into. The environment is the big loser in Trump world.
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It is a talking point that Trump has damaged trust in us by our allies. The notion that there is this unified cluster of allies who are all trustworthy is nonsense. Can you name a European country that has not changed its policies, or governmental structures, or economic and trade policies since the U.S. entered an alliance with them. They are all in a constant state of flux. And the only component in which they truly put a trust in us is our power and the hope that we would be the big brother who protects them and their interests. Interests, BTW, which have often been at odds with ours.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

As long as you claim it it must be true

Thanks for claiming that. But I stand on what I said as being true. Rebut it if you can.

Long economic expansions are always felt as safer the longer they last. This one started under Obama and has continued steadily since.

None last forever--few, if any, without interruptions. Determining the start point in a continuously fluid national economy is prone to biased interpretation. Where we are now started around 1776--with bumps and changes evolving to what we have now.

If we must attribute an economy to the President who presides over it, then Trump's economy is better than Obama's. I don't see the damage it has created that must, as you say, be fixed.

This administration has chosen which businesses had to pay tariffs.

Businesses that created a competitive advantage for themselves by buying foreign components or manufacturing in foreign countries.


Redistribution of income, choosing who can succeed is socialism.

That is nonsense. All buying and selling redistributes income. And that process "chooses" success and failure. Businesses fail annually by the thousands because they are not able to redistribute others incomes into their coffers. That is not socialism.

What we commonly, politically, refer to as redistribution of income, is government taking of income by taxes and directly redistributing it to those who have done nothing to get it, buy it, or earn it. That kind of redistribution of income is not the collateral effect of competition nor the monopolization of manufacturing nor the gaining of competitive edge by avoiding taxes and regulations, nor of hiring cheaper labor or buying cheaper resources, nor the placing of tariffs on any of those practices.


Tariffs were the only tax the USA had for more than a century.

I essentially said that in a bit lengthy edit of my post while you were replying, so didn't see your post till after I finished editing. So, indeed, tariffs are not a new tax for Americans as you claimed.

Trump is more protectionist than Bernie and he threatened to penalize Harley if they offshored their production to offset the retaliatory tariffs.
He’s a conman
����

Protectionism is not socialism. As I said, the founders were protectionists, and for good reason. Our national sovereignty is in a vulnerable position now because much of the strong manufacturing sector that we once had, and which produced all we needed for defense has been "offshored" to foreign nations, some of which are now our greatest enemies.

There is no "con" in trying to correct that. Nor will it be easy. Nor does opposing everything Trump tries to do helpful.

[Pete F.]

Here you go
How to apply for exemption from paying tariffs that are decided on a case by case basis.
https://www.interlogusa.com/answers/...china-tariffs/

You can think that our historical allies are not eyeing this administration skeptically perhaps you could ask the Israelis, Ukraine, South Korea, Japan, North Korea, Russia, China, Taiwan, etc

They all see that Florida-man has no well considered foreign policy and flies by the seat of his pants using either his gut or the great and unmatched wisdom he claims to have.
He is easily manipulated, his word has no value because it can change in a moment for no discernible reason.
Just keep believing
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here you go
How to apply for exemption from paying tariffs that are decided on a case by case basis.
https://www.interlogusa.com/answers/...china-tariffs/

You can think that our historical allies are not eyeing this administration skeptically perhaps you could ask the Israelis, Ukraine, South Korea, Japan, North Korea, Russia, China, Taiwan, etc

They all see that Florida-man has no well considered foreign policy and flies by the seat of his pants using either his gut or the great and unmatched wisdom he claims to have.
He is easily manipulated, his word has no value because it can change in a moment for no discernible reason.
Just keep believing
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Great analysis!! Very coherent, simply put, easy to follow, and the true key to solving the problem. You really do know so much about Trump and the rest of the world and what they all think. You would make a fabulous, well admired, and first rate talking head on CNN.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Great analysis!! Very coherent, simply put, easy to follow, and the true key to solving the problem. You really do know so much about Trump and the rest of the world and what they all think. You would make a fabulous, well admired, and first rate talking head on CNN.

As you would on RT
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[Sea Dangles]

Poor guy,he is getting close to snapping.
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[scottw]

I bet he was up all night in his bunker taping articles and pictures on the wall convincing himself of things that aren't true