OBAMA gets TOUGH

[Raven]

35.5 miles per gallon by 2016,

that is the biggest JOKE
i have yet to hear....

if that's getting tough
then he's a G.D. WIMP

a spaghetti Noodle !!

TRY [[[ 50 MPG ]]]
that's getting tough!!!

[JohnnyD]

Considering average gas mileages have only gone from 23.1 in 1980 to 24.7 in 1994, I think 35.5 is a pretty decent goal to set. Automakers spend 2-3 years performing R&D for new models. This gives them about 6 years to develop the technology needed to increase gas mileage by about 50%.

While I was hoping for at least 40MPG, I'm glad Obama at least pulled the trigger on an issue Bush refused to address.

[Cool Beans]

I always think it's funny how every idiot we get in office (both parties) they always make grand plans that should come to fruition after they leave office, knowing full well that the next guy will more than likely not continue it. So they can never be called on it.... if it doesn't happen, it was the next guys fault.....

I think it would be cool to have a plan that you can actually finish during your term. Shoot for 1/2 the difference in 3 to 4 years.

[JohnnyD]

I agree with you Cool Beans. Bush, Clinton, Bush and now Obama have all put a number of policies in place that won't come to fruition until after they leave. Many of the situations could have been handled within the time frame of their term depending on when the policy was issued (early in the term as opposed to late in their term).

However, I think it would be tough to press the MPG regulations much sooner than 2016 because of the R&D that needs to take place. Let's not forget that the automotive industry is getting raped at the moment. This policy will put additional pressure on the companies to develop new technologies.

My opinion is that more car companies need to move over to diesel engines. Have PR campaigns that dissolve many of the current stigmas about diesel and "how dirty it is", as current diesel engines used in cars are more efficient, more powerful and about as clean as gasoline engines.

Hell, I average 30-31MPG in my car, 35MPG if I make a round-trip drive to Truro. I also go about 75MPH on the highway and accelerate quickly, so I could be doing even better. But my car is Japanese - we'll see if the American companies can pull it off.

[Nebe]

so long SUV... nice knowing you.

[Raven]

as far as SUV's are concerned

it's what they are made of...
that will make them obsolete... IMHO

since the quality of the steel is total CRAP
not to mention way to heavy
Just don't lean on your car with your ass because you'll dent it
President
Obama:
i think he needed to go for 50 mpg so that the auto makers
would at least have to achieve 40 mpg
Since............
we all know that many worthwhile inventions for making cars run
even more efficiently have been shelved instead of implemented.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Nebe

so long SUV... nice knowing you.

then they wont sell. The challenge is to make a car people want and gets good mileage. A honda civic wont pull my boat.
I had a toyota tercel with 150K miles on it and it got over 35mpg.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

then they wont sell. The challenge is to make a car people want and gets good mileage. A honda civic wont pull my boat.

You'll still be able to get that SUV or truck, it's just going to cost you a premium to pull the boat. It is a luxury item anyway is it not?

-spence

[Cool Beans]

So because someone deems it a luxury item, I have to pay more? Who gets to decide what's a luxury and what's not. To most of us with boats, it's a necessity.

The truck is definitely a necessity.

I think all these cute little Toyota Prias' are luxury items....

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

You'll still be able to get that SUV or truck, it's just going to cost you a premium to pull the boat. It is a luxury item anyway is it not?

-spence

not sure if you shop around at all, but dont i already pay a premium? Compare a pathfinder to a sentra, a 4 runner to a camry. tens of thousands more. supply/demand should drive what I pay, not the government. didnt you post you have an audi? sounds like a luxury item to me, a yugo will be just fine for you comrade.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

not sure if you shop around at all, but dont i already pay a premium? Compare a pathfinder to a sentra, a 4 runner to a camry. tens of thousands more. supply/demand should drive what I pay, not the government. didnt you post you have an audi? sounds like a luxury item to me, a yugo will be just fine for you comrade.

Hasn't that freedom from supply/demand simply drained trillions in wealth from the US to enrich the Gulf States?

Sounds like more efficient cars would be a good thing.

-spence

[buckman]

There wont be any companies left to build them anyway so it's a moot policy. This should be the last straw for the auto makers. WTF

[EarnedStripes44]

JD, just out of curiousity, what do you mean when you say "when inflation skyrockets". Do you mean a galloping double digit inflation, the likes of the years following Vietnam or do you mean 5% or 6% inflation? Nevertheless, in either case, this is well above target levels of the fed.

Only asking because some are arguing that a dose of inflation may be what this country needs considering the accrued private and public debt of late.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

Only asking because some are arguing that a dose of inflation may be what this country needs considering the accrued private and public debt of late.

The some who are arguing for a dose of inflation never worked or lived during the 70's inflation years, or they would have a different perspective.

Salaries didn't keep up with inflation, loans were as high as 20%.

Never got to the point of Argentina where people moved there money daily to
pick up an extra 1/4%, but with all the spending we have going on now, it could very well happen to us.

[Jenn]

correct me if I am wrong but I thought it was an average of all vehicles a company makes. So 35.5 MPG is pretty good if you ask me. If you average trucks that get 20 and cars that get much higher...


oh wait....I get it. No one should be allowed to drive a truck anymore? It will never happen.......Trucks make the world go round. What about the fancy secret service cars.....now way they are getting 35.5 or better!

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Jenn

correct me if I am wrong but I thought it was an average of all vehicles a company makes. So 35.5 MPG is pretty good if you ask me. If you average trucks that get 20 and cars that get much higher...


oh wait....I get it. No one should be allowed to drive a truck anymore? It will never happen.......Trucks make the world go round. What about the fancy secret service cars.....now way they are getting 35.5 or better!

35.5 is the average but...

"Under the plan, cars would have to get 39 mpg and trucks 30 mpg."

Read more: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...xzz0G5s5rqSN&B

Also, there's a lot of pissing and moaning when this news was released about it putting substantial stress on the automotive companies. Well...

"The White House said it was able to bring industry and consumer groups into agreement on the standard without a lot of wrangling."

Read more: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...xzz0G5sawiU6&B

[EarnedStripes44]

pardon the digression, not trying to turn this into a Michael Vick...eerrr...inflation thread.

[JohnnyD]

One more thing...

The estimated increased cost to provide the higher MPG is estimated at $1500/vehicle.

Doing some of my own number crunching:

Assuming those costs are passed directly onto the consumer and the taking the Federal Estimate of 15,000 miles traveled/year, the added costs will be recouped within 3-4 years of ownership with an average pump price of $3/gallon (a figure that is extremely conservative for 6 years from now).

For someone like me that drives 20,000+ miles/year, I'd be looking at a break even point of under 3 years of ownership.

[fishbones]

All right, JD. When I used the word "bullying", it was hyperbole. Maybe not the right choice of words, but I don't claim to be as intelligent as most of the smarty pants here who always choose the right words. The tax break is an "incentive", which is a good thing. But, I don't want to be punished if I choose to buy a vehicle that doesn't qualify for the incentive. If the tax money is coming from people who don't buy the hybrids, it doesn't seem very fair. Now I don't know where this money for the tax breaks is coming from, so my point may be mute. But, if the government is getting the money for the tax breaks through taxes, everyone is paying into it. In that case, I feel bullied that the government is taking my money and giving it to someone else based on the choice they make when buying a car.

That being the case, I'm all for requiring better mileage in auto's. Anything that decreases the use of oil should bring the prices down based on supply and demand. I even think offering the tax incentives for hybrids is a great idea as long as the money isn't coming from my taxes.

[JohnnyD]

Gotcha. And don't sell yourself short, you have me bashing my head against the wall sometimes trying to think of a suitable rebuttal to some of your comments. Not to mention you're one of the few to realize I'm not quite as liberal as many think.

Given that, my understanding with tax incentives (and this area is definitely not a strong source for me) is that the government isn't "paying out" so they don't have to find a source for the money. It's a matter of not as much in taxes being paid into the system, just as if a cheaper car was purchased. It helps the consumer offset the additional cost and government collects almost the same in taxes as if they purchased the cheaper car.

The government has been known to provide these incentives as a way of helping bring new technology to light and help the consumer

[RIJIMMY]

just curious, what else can the money be coming from other than your taxes?
Flea Market at the Smithsonian?

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

just curious, what else can the money be coming from other than your taxes?
Flea Market at the Smithsonian?

I'll buy Fonzie's leather jacket.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

just curious, what else can the money be coming from other than your taxes?
Flea Market at the Smithsonian?

If people won't buy a hybrid because of the increased costs, the government would not be getting the taxes anyway. They would only be able to collect the lesser taxes paid on a cheaper car.

Once consumers don't need the added incentive to purchase hybrid (because most do come with sacrifices in performance) and massive prices at the pump are the incentive, then the government can remove the tax rebate.

In both cases - buying a hybrid or buying a cheaper car, the collected taxes to the government are similar.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

If people won't buy a hybrid because of the increased costs, the government would be getting the taxes anyway. They would only be able to collect the lesser taxes paid on a cheaper car.

Once consumers don't need the added incentive to purchase hybrid (because most do come with sacrifices in performance) and massive prices at the pump are the incentive, then the government can remove the tax rebate.

In both cases - buying a hybrid or buying a cheaper car, the collected taxes to the government are similar.

Johnny, are you saing that the people who buy hybrids are going to be paying for their own tax rebate?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Johnny, are you saing that the people who buy hybrids are going to be paying for their own tax rebate?

Essentially, yes.

People are going to pay more in taxes when they purchase a hybrid due to its increased costs over a non-hybrid, then because of the tax incentive, they'll receive a little bit more money back come Tax Day.

This is going with our previous assumption that the consumer would not buy a hybrid because of the increased Price Tag.

**I edited my post that you quoted. It should have said "The government would *not* be getting the taxes anyway."

[RIJIMMY]

If Liberace's is there I'm sure Spence will bid on it

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

If Liberace's is there I'm sure Spence will bid on it

No, but we're talking about Julia Child's copper pots and pans I'd be all over it

And FB, it's "moot".

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

No, but we're talking about Julia Child's copper pots and pans I'd be all over it

And FB, it's "moot".

-spence

Thanks for correcting me, Liberace.

[BigJim]

I have a good plan! How about a president who ACTUALLY means it when he pledges allegiance to our country flag and constitution and get us out of this bureaucratic, new world order nightmare. Then, maybe they could restore our constitution and civil liberties that our founding fathers fought and died for. Wow!!!! What a far out vision!!! What was this "right wing radical" thinking?