Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-10-2008, 10:31 AM   #1
Hooper
Southsider
iTrader: (0)
 
Hooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Bass River, Mass.
Posts: 1,226
Question A Mideast Perspective

This showed up in my email from a good friend. It makes sense to me, I thought this might be the place to post and debate. S-B has always had spirited Mideast debates in the past.....



Middle East Imperative



Subject: This is sobering.

This is from the guy who had his finger on the nuclear trigger for three years as head of our defense and response complex buried under Cheyenne Mountain at Colorado Springs. He was the only person who could initiate a nuclear attack after advising the sitting president of a missile launch by our enemies and our need to respond. No political or civilian type in the US had more knowledge about day-to-day military actions around the world.

Everyone should find quiet time to read this.

John R. (Jack) Farrington Major General, USAF (Retired)



Middle East Imperative

BY: JIM CASH, Brig. Gen., USAF, Ret.

I recently wrote about the war in Iraq and the larger war against radical Islam, eliciting a number of responses. Let me try and put this conflict in proper perspective.

Understand, the current battle we are engaged in is much bigger than just Iraq. What happens in the next year will affect this country and how our kids and grand kids live throughout their lifetime, and beyond. Radical Islam has been attacking the West since the seventh century. They have been defeated in the past and decimated to the point of taking hundreds of years to recover. But they can never be totally defeated. Their birth rates are so far beyond civilized world rates that in time they recover and attempt to dominate again.

There are eight terror-sponsoring countries that make up the grand threat to the West. Two, Saudi Arabiaand Pakistan, just need firm pressure from the West to make major reforms. They need to decide who they are really going to support and commit to that support. That answer is simple. They both will support who they think will hang in there until the end, and win. We are not sending very good signals in that direction right now, thanks to the Democrats.

The other six, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea and Libya will require regime change or a major policy shift. Now, let's look more closely.

Afghanistan and Iraq have both had regime changes, but are being fueled by outsiders from Syria andIran. We have scared Gaddafi's pants off, and he has given up his quest for nuclear weapons, so I don't think Libya is now a threat.

North Korea (the non-Islamic threat) can be handled diplomatically by buying them off. They are starving. That leaves Syria and Iran. Syria is like a frightened puppy. Without the support of Iran they will join the stronger side. So where does that leave us? Sooner or later, we are going to be forced to confront Iran, and it better be before they gain nuclear capability.

In 1989 I served as a Command Director inside the Cheyenne Mountain complex located in Colorado Springs, Colorado for almost three years. My job there was to observe (through classified means) every missile shot anywhere in the world and assess if it was a threat to the US or Canada. If any shot was threatening to either nation I had only minutes to advise the President, as he had only minutes to respond.

I watched Iran and Iraq shoot missiles at each other every day, and all day, for months. They killed hundreds of thousands of their people. Know why? They were fighting for control of the Middle East and that enormous oil supply.

At that time, they were preoccupied with their internal problems and could care less about toppling the west. Oil prices were fairly stable and we could not see an immediate threat. Well, the worst part of what we have done as a nation in Iraq is to do away with the military capability of one of those nations. Now,Iran has a clear field to dominate the Middle East, since Iraq is no longer a threat to them. They have turned their attention to the only other threat to their dominance, they are convinced they will win, because the US is so divided, and the Democrats (who now control Congress and may control the Presidency in 2008) have openly said we are pulling out.

Do you have any idea what will happen if the entire Middle East turns their support to Iran, which they will obviously do if we pull out? It is not the price of oil we will have to worry about. Oil WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE to this country at any price. I personally would vote for any presidential candidate who did what JFK did with the space program; declare a goal to bring this country to total energy independence in a decade.

Yes, it is about oil. The economy in this country will totally die if that Middle East supply is cut off right now. It will not be a recession. It will be a depression that will make 1929 look like the "good-old-days". The bottom line here is simple. If Iran is forced to fall in line, the fighting in Iraq will end over night, and the nightmare will be over.

One way or another, Iran must be forced to join modern times and the global community. It may mean a real war - if so, now is the time, before we face a nuclear Iran with the capacity to destroy Israel and begin a new ice age.

I urge you to read the book "END GAME" by two of our best Middle East experts, true American patriots and retired military generals, Paul Vallely and Tom McInerney. They are our finest, and totally honest in their assessment of why victory in the Middle East is so important, and how it can be won. Proceeds for the book go directly to memorial fund for our fallen soldiers who served the country during the war on terror. You can find that book by going to the Internet through Stand-up America at www.ospreyradio.usor www.rightalk.com.

On the other hand, we have several very angry retired generals today, who evidently have not achieved their lofty goals, and insist on ranting and raving about the war. They are wrong, and doing the country great harm by giving a certain political party reason to use them as experts to back their anti-war claims.

You may be one of those who believe nothing could ever be terrible enough to support our going to war. If that is the case I should stop here, as that level of thinking approaches mental disability in this day and age. It is right up there with alien abductions and high altitude seeding through government aircraft contrails. I helped produced those contrails for almost 30 years, and I can assure you we were not seeding the atmosphere. The human race is a war-like population, and if a country is not willing to protect itself, it deserves the consequences. Nuff-said!!!

Now, my last comments will get to the nerve. They will be on politics. I am not a Republican. And, George Bush has made enough mistakes as President to insure my feelings about that for the rest of my life. However, the Democratic Party has moved so far left, they have made me support those farther to the right. I am a conservative who totally supports the Constitution of this country. The only difference between the United States and the South American, third world, dictator infested and ever-changing South American governments, is our US Constitution.

This Republic (note I did not say Democracy) is the longest standing the world has ever known, but it is vulnerable. It would take so little to change it through economic upheaval. There was a time when politicians could disagree, but still work together. We are past that time, and that is the initial step toward the downfall of our form of government. I think that many view Bush-hating as payback time. The Republicans hated the Clintons and now the Democrats hate Bush. So, both parties are putting their hate toward willingness to do anything for political dominance to include lying and always taking the opposite stand just for the sake of being opposed.

JUST HOW GOOD IS THAT FOR OUR COUNTRY? In my lifetime, after serving in uniform for Presidents Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and Bush I have a pretty good feel for which party supported our military, and what military life was like under each of their terms. And, let me assure you that times were best under the Republicans.

Service under Jimmy Carter was devastating for all branches of the military. And, Ronald Reagan was truly a salvation. You can choose to listen to enriched newscasters, and foolish people like John Murtha (he is no war hero), Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Michael Moore, Jane Fonda , Harry Reid, Russ Feingold, Hillary Clinton, Ted Kennedy, and on-and-on to include the true fools in Hollywood if you like. If you do, your conclusions will be totally wrong.

The reason that I write, appear on radio talk shows, and do everything I can to denounce those people is simple. THEY ARE PUTTING THEIR THIRST FOR POLITICAL POWER AND QUEST FOR VICTORY IN 2008 ABOVE WHAT IS BEST FOR THIS COUNTRY. I cannot abide that. Pelosi clearly defied the Logan Act by going to Syria, which should have lead to imprisonment of three years and a heavy fine.

Jane Fonda did more to prolong the Vietnam War longer than any other human being (as acknowledged by Ho Chi Minh in his writing before he died). She truly should have been indicted for treason, along with her radical husband, Tom Hayden, and forced to pay the consequences.

This country has started to soften by not enforcing its laws, which is another indication of a Republic about to fall. All Democrats, along with the Hollywood elite, are sending us headlong into a total defeat in the Middle East, which will finally give Iran total dominance in the region. A lack of oil in the near future will be the final straw that dooms this Republic. However, if we refuse to let this happen and really get serious about an energy self- sufficiency program, this can be avoided. I am afraid, however, that we are going in the opposite direction.

If we elect Hillary Clinton and a Democrat-controlled congress, and they carry through with allowing Iran to take control of the Middle East, continue to refuse development of nuclear energy, refuse to allow drilling for new oil, and continue to do nothing but oppose everything Bush, it will be over in terms of what we view as the good life in the USA.

Now, do I think that all who do not support the war are un-American ... of course not. They just do not understand the importance of total victory in that region.

Another failure of George Bush is his inability to explain to the American people why we are there, and why we MUST win. By the way, it is not a war. It is martial law that is under attack by Iranian and Syrian outside influences, and there is a difference.

So, what do I believe? What is the bottom line? I will simply say that the Democratic Party has fielded the foulest, power hungry, anti-country, self-absorbed group of individuals that I have observed in my lifetime. Our educational system is partially to blame for allowing the mass of America to be taken in by this group.



To win wars, you must put boots on the ground. When you put boots on the ground, soldiers are going to die. A President must make the war decision wisely, and insure that the cause is right before using his last political option. However, CONTROLLING IRAN AND DEMOCRATIZING THE MIDDLE EAST IS THE ONLY CHOICE IF WE ARE HELL- BENT ON DEPENDING ON THEM FOR OUR FUTURE ENERGY NEEDS.

Jimmy L. Cash, Brig. Gen., USAF, Ret. Lakeside , Montana 59922



"I'll tell you what war is all about, you've got to kill people, and when you've killed enough they stop fighting." - Gen. Curtis LeMay
Hooper is offline  
Old 03-10-2008, 12:06 PM   #2
Joe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 3,650
Reads like he's advocating a pre-emptive strike on Iran followed by an occupation and the establishment of a western-style democracy. He's got a dash of "final solution to the Muslim problem" in there too. I might be going out on a limb here, but I don't think he's going to have much of a post-military career as a political strategist.

Joe is offline  
Old 03-11-2008, 04:35 PM   #3
Raven
........
iTrader: (0)
 
Raven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,805
Blog Entries: 1
Thumbs up true

but Israel would probably have to do that before we did...


seeing as how they have already been threatened to be wiped off the map...

so that leaves us no other option than to put our boots on the ground.

But of course as soon as we do anything pre-emptive to prevent a nuclear holocaust
the strait of hamuz will be littered with blown up and burning oil vessels
until our jets finish the bombing of IRAN.

either way the flow of oil will stop and we will be running off of our reserves.

So the statement ....we need a president who is going to make energy independance
happen within ten years or less is the most
relevant . a very sobering read. Thanks
Raven is offline  
Old 03-11-2008, 08:12 PM   #4
justplugit
Registered Grandpa
iTrader: (0)
 
justplugit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east coast
Posts: 8,592
While I'm no expert ,by any imagination on the mid east, his perspective sounds well grounded.

I like to get perspectives from people who have been involved on the front lines rather than some politician who is always pandering for votes, takes a trip to the hot zones every 5 years,
holds his finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing or some press that has their own agenda.

Like the Brigadier General said," They are putting their thirst for political power and quest for victory in 2008 above what is best for this county."

I would venture to say that except for a few political slogans the average American has no clue as to what is really going on in the world.
Too busy living on Easy Street.

Common sense tells me this area will always be a hot bed as for centuries people have hated and killed each other.
Don't see any change either as every peace strategy ever thought of and tried has never lasted for long.

If it weren't for our need of their oil to survive we would have no need to be there.

Unfortunately for us, until we come up with our own energy needs, whether it's nuclear power, coal, or drilling for oil in Anwar, we will have no choice but to be there.

Imho, it's a case of pay me now or pay me later, with now being the harder choice but later the easy way, but with a lot more consequence.

" Choose Life "
justplugit is offline  
Old 03-11-2008, 09:11 PM   #5
Raven
........
iTrader: (0)
 
Raven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,805
Blog Entries: 1
actually

Quote:
Originally Posted by justplugit View Post
need to be there.

Unfortunately for us, until we come up with our own energy needs, whether it's nuclear power, coal, or drilling for oil in Anwar, we will have no choice but to be there.

.
we have found an unlimited energy source already .....problem is its on the moon trapped in the soil and its called helium 3 ....

it sounds far fetched i'm sure but an elevator of sorts built out of carbon nano tubes will eventually transport materials into outer space and back again...to earth... that will make oil look like bubble gum in comparison... the technology is still ongoing tho.
Raven is offline  
Old 03-11-2008, 10:09 PM   #6
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 34,942
Blog Entries: 1
And yet, quality career people - like the as of today resigning CENTCOM Commander Admiral Fallon - are cut out of the picture for apparently (possibly) displeasing Washington & the White House. There goes the "stabilizing" force for the middle east. I sure as hell hope Gates don't promote a YESMAN to command Centcom ala General Tommy Franks

Get ready for $7 gas folks, Georgie is going to Tehran sometime in the next 8 months.

I really hope - no pray - that we get a STRONG leader that fosters our Military, keeps us strong, and yet can build the bridges in the world for peace. Whatever happened to Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick?

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline  
Old 03-12-2008, 05:36 PM   #7
justplugit
Registered Grandpa
iTrader: (0)
 
justplugit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east coast
Posts: 8,592
Talking

Clammah is a spelling moderator.

If so he may be the man we are looking for, don't know anything about him carrying a big stick,

but he does speak softly, or is it vica- versa.

Last edited by justplugit; 03-12-2008 at 07:10 PM.. Reason: spellin error

" Choose Life "
justplugit is offline  
Old 03-12-2008, 09:19 PM   #8
Clammer
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Clammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Warwick RI,02889
Posts: 11,702
OOOOOOOOOPS >>>>>>>>>>Time to quit the slow dead & demoralizing of our soldiers & Blow the f #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g place up >.. that,s the only wakeup call they will understand & even if they don,t >>. fu ck up there military /atomic abilities & let them piss on their dead ;;

In WW ! & 2 & Korea we entered to win >> In V/N a totally new kind of war & IMO we were not ready for it & chose not to use the force to put a end to it >.

This cluster f uck / has been that from the beginning of the 1st movie >>> attack Iraq 1 ;;

followed by A/I 2 ... with a part time army /running around in the hot sand / getting blow up by people we are training >>>>>>>>>>>>>> why do we have big ass ship & war planes & missles >>>...saving them for what >>>>>>>>> blow them the %$%$%$%$ up >>>>>
It stopped Japan ..real f #^&#^&#^&#^&#^& quick // now there beating us in education & buying up half the world >. but they too will be %$%$%$%$e d in the stoppage of fuel ;;

If this country doesn,t stop this soon >soon it will be too late >>>>>>>>> we are a country that will die a quick death if the fuel switch is turned off ;;

Its a shame Bush f ucked this up .. by trying to go at it as less coastly to all lives as possible ;;
now >. no matter what >. R & D,s both want him out //

Like John said >.he,s gonna make a move in the next 8 months >> if he,s right >>> i {PRAY} that he has seen the light 7 goes balls to the walls ;;
After that the only reasonable change we have is if McCain would live long enough to pull a upset ;;

I,m on the down side on life & even with the bumps /its been a good one >>>> but I ain,t blind & I cry for those younger than me >>>>> all people ,not just my kids & grandkids ::;

Seriously CLAMMER

ENJOY WHAT YOU HAVE !!!

MIKE
Clammer is offline  
Old 03-13-2008, 09:42 AM   #9
Saltheart
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
Saltheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Cumberland,RI
Posts: 8,555
I think we should have spent the gaziilion dollars we spent on the war towards energy self sufficiency. The idea of going after energy independence with a antional directive , like going to the moon in a decade , is so obvious and sound , its amazing we are not doing it already.

As far as our foreign policy goes , i say we stay out of other contries unless we are attacked by them or by individual terrorist groups supported by them. There should be no measured responses. We either go in Whole hog or stay out. we also should just go in , blast them back 200 years , and then get out. Why do we have to colonize everywhere?

Last thing is that i will never , ever , ever vote for an oil man to hold public office again. Too much conflict of interest.

Saltheart
Custom Crafted Rods by Saltheart
Saltheart is offline  
Old 03-14-2008, 01:45 PM   #10
striperman36
Old Guy
iTrader: (0)
 
striperman36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 8,760
Unfortunately I don't see any choice for president in 2008 make the strong stand to expand the conflict to go after the true disruptor Iran and put it all in to do so.
The Republic as it stands, stands truly on the brink of a precipice. I unfortunately can't see it standing there for much longer, probably less than my lifetime. We have lost some much in this Republic, all be it in small little bitty pieces, this last large chunk will just allow to fall all the way down.
Like the fall of the Roman Empire, that took centuries, but for us it will on take decades before we follow every other Post WWII power over the edge.
striperman36 is offline  
Old 03-14-2008, 02:49 PM   #11
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,181
I thought I had penned a response to this thread earlier in the week, but I must have botched the submit...oh well.

To be honest I think this guy is a bit of a nut, and the simple fact that he was trained to tell a bottle rocket from an ICBM gives him about as much street cred to discuss foreign policy as I have

I won't bother with a blow by blow retort, but his factual assertions above seem to be based mostly on a heavily biased opinion and not objectivity.

Like the now defunct Cheyenne Mountain where he served, he seems to be another Cold War relic, who's identity is driven more by his percieved enemy than his own purpose.

Iran is going to be an ongoing challenge, but it's hardly a "true disruptor". Rather, I'd more accurately describe them as "opportunists".

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 03-15-2008, 06:39 AM   #12
Hooper
Southsider
iTrader: (0)
 
Hooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Bass River, Mass.
Posts: 1,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by striperman36 View Post
Unfortunately I don't see any choice for president in 2008 make the strong stand to expand the conflict to go after the true disruptor Iran and put it all in to do so.
The Republic as it stands, stands truly on the brink of a precipice. I unfortunately can't see it standing there for much longer, probably less than my lifetime. We have lost some much in this Republic, all be it in small little bitty pieces, this last large chunk will just allow to fall all the way down.
Like the fall of the Roman Empire, that took centuries, but for us it will on take decades before we follow every other Post WWII power over the edge.

Pretty dire predictions S-Man, you think this country is self-destructing? I have a close friend who is very optimistic, he believes that now with energy being the biggest single need in the world today, mankind has the intelligence to develop new radical forms of energy, some of them limitless.

Talk about turning the Mid-East into the irrelevant.
Hooper is offline  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:43 PM   #13
striperman36
Old Guy
iTrader: (0)
 
striperman36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 8,760
Would be nice if that were true, however, as history shows, nothing lasts forever.
striperman36 is offline  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:49 PM   #14
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,181
The World is going to change a lot in the next several decades, there's no doubt about that. I certainly do see an drop in the wealth (and excess) of the US, but this might not be all of a bad thing as long as we can keep global wars, famine etc... at bay.

I believe some radical change is going to be needed in our system to control this transition. But to date, I've not heard anything from Barak that gives me confidence he understands or has a strategy to help guide us. McCain may not be much better...

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:56 PM   #15
striperman36
Old Guy
iTrader: (0)
 
striperman36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 8,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
The World is going to change a lot in the next several decades, there's no doubt about that. I certainly do see an drop in the wealth (and excess) of the US, but this might not be all of a bad thing as long as we can keep global wars, famine etc... at bay.

I believe some radical change is going to be needed in our system to control this transition. But to date, I've not heard anything from Barak that gives me confidence he understands or has a strategy to help guide us. McCain may not be much better...

-spence
Just as long as we can fish.

And yes, I don't see anyone running that can help guide us. And Bush just wants to go back to the ranch.
striperman36 is offline  
Old 03-15-2008, 02:10 PM   #16
Nebe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Nebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltheart View Post
I think we should have spent the gaziilion dollars we spent on the war towards energy self sufficiency. The idea of going after energy independence with a antional directive , like going to the moon in a decade , is so obvious and sound , its amazing we are not doing it already.

As far as our foreign policy goes , i say we stay out of other contries unless we are attacked by them or by individual terrorist groups supported by them. There should be no measured responses. We either go in Whole hog or stay out. we also should just go in , blast them back 200 years , and then get out. Why do we have to colonize everywhere?

Last thing is that i will never , ever , ever vote for an oil man to hold public office again. Too much conflict of interest.
wiser words were never spoken.
Nebe is offline  
Old 03-15-2008, 04:00 PM   #17
Raven
........
iTrader: (0)
 
Raven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,805
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooper View Post
mankind has the intelligence to develop new radical forms of energy, some of them limitless.

.
one of those would be wave power,the other is solar.the other is wind,and another is hydro power,

to quote Saltheart: Why do we have to colonize everywhere?



more like insisting every other society is a democracy
Raven is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com