Critical Race Theory

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

good lord i didn’t even catch that. god almighty.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Also vacations
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

Also vacations
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

if you read that, you’d conclude he thinks that all working dads, work 24 hours a day.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if you read that, you’d conclude he thinks that all working dads, work 24 hours a day.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He thinks some pretty funny stuff
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You’re proof that the Venn diagram of men who are saying paternity leave isn't necessary cause babies don't need their fathers and people who blame all racial disparity in the U.S. on a "lack of black fathers" is a circle.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by scottw

You do know that babies who have fathers who work get to see them after work, before work and on weekends and holidays right?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

good lord i didn’t even catch that. god almighty.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by scottw

Also vacations
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if you read that, you’d conclude he thinks that all working dads, work 24 hours a day.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by scottw

He thinks some pretty funny stuff
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Absolute proof that the Venn diagram of men who are saying paternity leave isn't necessary cause babies don't need their fathers and people who blame all racial disparity in the U.S. on a "lack of black fathers" is a circle.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Absolute proof that the Venn diagram of men who are saying paternity leave isn't necessary cause babies don't need their fathers and people who blame all racial disparity in the U.S. on a "lack of black fathers" is a circle.

Pete, for gods sake, paternity leave applies to the first few weeks of a baby's life. Kids, especially boys, need dads for their entire childhood, not just the first 8 weeks.

Let me know if that's going too fast for you.

"who blame all racial disparity in the U.S. on a "lack of black fathers"

No one ever said it's "all" because of lack of fathers (hearing voices again). But it's the single largest contributor. The only folks who deny that, are those with a vested interest in denying it. In your case, that vested interest is a desperate, pathetic need to always protect your master, liberalism.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

there are two points to my question.

(1) since non-whites are the most economically successful ethnicity in the US, it’s a stretch ( actually, it’s a pile of horsesh*t) to suggest there’s widespread racial discrimination.

(2). why can’t we expand in the approach that works amazingly well for asians, and advocate for policies that encourage other struggling groups to do the same things?

the main point was to bitch slap you into a corner from which you had no possible escape. because this simple post shows that the people
running the cities, don’t actually want blacks to do well, otherwise they’d be encouraging blacks to emulate the behavior of those who succeed.

i would never suggest that boys don’t do as well because of bigotry against men. i’d say it’s because they don’t work as hard. if i borrowed a page from your book, i’d say it was because the system is rigged against men, but i know that’s crap.

it’s your side that blames everything on race, making helpless victims out of blacks instead of giving them
the tools they need to succeed. because for democrats, the goal
isn’t to get them to succeed. the goal is to create a permanent underclass of reliable democratic voters.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Since it is the liberal cities that are the problem why is that the highest number of Black Americans can be found in Texas (3.96 million), Florida (3.70 million), Georgia (3.54 million) or if you do it as a percentage of population It's Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia and Maryland.
Which Side controls those states?

There is a list below that you can rebut to prove that systematic racism doesn't exist.

There was a time where White people in America were not ashamed of racism and flaunted it openly. White racists documented for the world to see, their systemic efforts to build advantages for themselves, while simultaneously disadvantaging those they called a myriad of different names to separate them from membership in their group. In other words, racism was not hidden. The evidence of systemic racism is copious in books, manuscripts, memoirs, laws, public debates, legislative halls and numerous famous court cases.

To argue that systemic racism is a myth is to erase all of those sources of evidence. It is impossible to do so. So those who make the argument have been forced to use one of the oldest tricks known to man, they blame the victims for their condition. I’ve previously written about victim blaming on a number of occasions so I won’t rehash that here. Simply put, victim blaming is finding some characteristic shared by members of a class of people you want to treat poorly, and using that as the rationale for treating them poorly.

For Native Americans it took the form of blaming them for “wasting” the land by not using the land in the way Europeans wanted to use it. For Africans kidnapped and forced to work for free for two and a half centuries, America called them lazy and dumb while making them work sixteen to eighteen hour days and also making it illegal for them to learn to read and write. For those who one day were citizens of Mexico and then forced to be Americans with the The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, it was calling their language and traditions uncivilized. Those who migrated from Asia were told their way of life was poisonous to this nation and they themselves were a “yellow peril.”

All of these things are copiously documented by White people. Their words in speeches, books, court decisions and numerous other places provide all the evidence needed to prove the existence of long-term systemic racism. Can people who want to shame other Whites into not learning this ugly history erase this evidence? Of course they can’t. Instead they try to double down on the lies we all learned in school about America. Lies are becoming quite the rage over the last four years.

If these deniers of systemic racism are right, then certain fundamental things must be either true or false. Let’s explore a long list of some of these things. Only a fool or liar would deny these things if they spent a little time at a local library or bookstore.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then people of African descent must have voluntarily left their families, friends, and communities by placing themselves in chains and sitting on the coast of Africa waiting for thousands of slaving ships over nearly four hundred years to arrive and take them to an unknown land so that they could work for free.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then millions of Indigenous people must have gotten together and decided that the millions of square miles of homelands they loved were worthless and should be given to strange men from afar so that they could disassociate themselves from their cultures and traditions.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Africans and Native people must have seen a great benefit in working for free from before the sun rose until well after it set, all to give the fruits of their labor to these people who called themselves Christians.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then those Native leaders who convinced their people to fight people with superior weapons must have just simply wanted to see their families and friends slaughtered for the pure fun of it.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then those Africans who escaped their captivity by fleeing to the brutal winters in Canada must have really preferred freezing to death to living in the comfort of what Isabel Wilkerson called the “warmth of other suns.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then those people of European ancestry must have some real advantage intellectually, and never feared giving Africans a level playing field by allowing them to read and write for generations.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then African and Native women must have been detestable creatures that White men could only find sexually attractive as rape victims.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then White women who slept with Black men while their husbands and mates were away fighting the Civil War, had no attraction to the forbidden fruit known as “negro brutes” by their husbands.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then all of the African ancestored people called mulatto, quadroon, octoroon etc. really did not have the blood of White rapists coursing through their veins, they were simply born with pale skin, blue eyes and non-curly hair.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Black people who were given barely edible scraps like the intestines of the hog by Whites really saw no value in eating high off the hog as Whites did.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Thomas Jefferson never said “ I advance it therefore as a suspicion only, that the blacks, whether originally a distinct race, or made distinct by time and circumstances, are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the U.S. Supreme Court in the famous Dred Scott case did not say about Blacks that, “They had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior, that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect; and that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then President Andrew Jackson in his fifth annual message to the country never said this about native Americans. “They have neither the intelligence, the industry, the moral habits, nor the desire of improvement which are essential to any favorable change in their condition. Established in the midst of another and a superior race, and without appreciating the causes of their inferiority or seeking to control them, they must necessarily yield to the force of circumstances and ere long disappear.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Theodore Roosevelt never said this about Native Americans. “The settler and pioneer have at bottom had justice on their side; this great continent could not have been kept as nothing but a game preserve for squalid savages. Moreover, to the most oppressed Indian nations the whites often acted as a protection, or, at least, they deferred instead of hastening their fate.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming did not at one time have a law on the books prohibiting marriage of Asians (they used the term Mongoloids) and Whites.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then a Georgia court in 1869 did not rule that, “The amalgamation of the races is not only unnatural but is always productive of deplorable results.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Alabama did not write a law stating, “It shall be unlawful for a negro and white person to play together or in company with each other at any game of pool or billiards.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the Federal Housing Administration underwriting manual did not include an article stating “The infiltration of inharmonious racial groups will produce the same effects as those which follow the introduction of nonconforming land uses which tend to lower the levels of land values and to lessen the desirability of residential areas.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the U.S. Justice Department in 2012 did not find evidence of widespread mortgage lending discrimination by Wells Fargo Bank and say that “African-American and Hispanic wholesale borrowers paid more than non-Hispanic white wholesale borrowers, not based on borrower risk, but because of their race or national origin. Wells Fargo’s business practice allowed its loan officers and mortgage brokers to vary a loan’s interest rate and other fees from the price it set based on the borrower’s objective credit-related factors . This subjective and unguided pricing discretion resulted in African-American and Hispanic borrowers paying more. The complaint alleges that Wells Fargo was aware the fees and interest rates it was charging discriminated against African-American and Hispanic borrowers, but the actions it took were insufficient and ineffective in stopping it.”

I could continue with a significantly longer list. I’ll suffice it to say that the examples stated above provide evidence of the longstanding practices, polices and beliefs which are the core of systemic racism. It is not hidden history, it was simply omitted history. The facts were and still are left out of what we learn about American history to our detriment. As a result, many still cling to the belief that America has always supported freedom, justice and liberty for all. Contrary to Trump’s executive order no one is teaching Americans to hate their country. That’s like saying that if you tell a person to learn that they got what they had because of the advantage of being White that they should hate America.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the tremendous disparities we see across the country are emblematic of flawed people of color.

For those who choose to continue believing these things, you are a part of the problem. Your denials are counterproductive and tell us why there is so much division in this country today. The United States of America is at the proverbial fork in the road. 2020 will go down as a squandered opportunity to finally tell the truth as Germany and South Africa (regardless of how flawed the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa has been) both did about their horrible pasts. It could possibly go down as the year we finally expanded our truth telling of the racism embedded in the basic fabric of America. White Americans of “goodwill” must decide which path we take. People of color have done their part by sharing their stories.
Written by Reggie Jackson

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Since it is the liberal cities that are the problem why is that the highest number of Black Americans can be found in Texas (3.96 million), Florida (3.70 million), Georgia (3.54 million) or if you do it as a percentage of population It's Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia and Maryland.
Which Side controls those states?

There is a list below that you can rebut to prove that systematic racism doesn't exist.

There was a time where White people in America were not ashamed of racism and flaunted it openly. White racists documented for the world to see, their systemic efforts to build advantages for themselves, while simultaneously disadvantaging those they called a myriad of different names to separate them from membership in their group. In other words, racism was not hidden. The evidence of systemic racism is copious in books, manuscripts, memoirs, laws, public debates, legislative halls and numerous famous court cases.

To argue that systemic racism is a myth is to erase all of those sources of evidence. It is impossible to do so. So those who make the argument have been forced to use one of the oldest tricks known to man, they blame the victims for their condition. I’ve previously written about victim blaming on a number of occasions so I won’t rehash that here. Simply put, victim blaming is finding some characteristic shared by members of a class of people you want to treat poorly, and using that as the rationale for treating them poorly.

For Native Americans it took the form of blaming them for “wasting” the land by not using the land in the way Europeans wanted to use it. For Africans kidnapped and forced to work for free for two and a half centuries, America called them lazy and dumb while making them work sixteen to eighteen hour days and also making it illegal for them to learn to read and write. For those who one day were citizens of Mexico and then forced to be Americans with the The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, it was calling their language and traditions uncivilized. Those who migrated from Asia were told their way of life was poisonous to this nation and they themselves were a “yellow peril.”

All of these things are copiously documented by White people. Their words in speeches, books, court decisions and numerous other places provide all the evidence needed to prove the existence of long-term systemic racism. Can people who want to shame other Whites into not learning this ugly history erase this evidence? Of course they can’t. Instead they try to double down on the lies we all learned in school about America. Lies are becoming quite the rage over the last four years.

If these deniers of systemic racism are right, then certain fundamental things must be either true or false. Let’s explore a long list of some of these things. Only a fool or liar would deny these things if they spent a little time at a local library or bookstore.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then people of African descent must have voluntarily left their families, friends, and communities by placing themselves in chains and sitting on the coast of Africa waiting for thousands of slaving ships over nearly four hundred years to arrive and take them to an unknown land so that they could work for free.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then millions of Indigenous people must have gotten together and decided that the millions of square miles of homelands they loved were worthless and should be given to strange men from afar so that they could disassociate themselves from their cultures and traditions.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Africans and Native people must have seen a great benefit in working for free from before the sun rose until well after it set, all to give the fruits of their labor to these people who called themselves Christians.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then those Native leaders who convinced their people to fight people with superior weapons must have just simply wanted to see their families and friends slaughtered for the pure fun of it.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then those Africans who escaped their captivity by fleeing to the brutal winters in Canada must have really preferred freezing to death to living in the comfort of what Isabel Wilkerson called the “warmth of other suns.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then those people of European ancestry must have some real advantage intellectually, and never feared giving Africans a level playing field by allowing them to read and write for generations.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then African and Native women must have been detestable creatures that White men could only find sexually attractive as rape victims.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then White women who slept with Black men while their husbands and mates were away fighting the Civil War, had no attraction to the forbidden fruit known as “negro brutes” by their husbands.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then all of the African ancestored people called mulatto, quadroon, octoroon etc. really did not have the blood of White rapists coursing through their veins, they were simply born with pale skin, blue eyes and non-curly hair.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Black people who were given barely edible scraps like the intestines of the hog by Whites really saw no value in eating high off the hog as Whites did.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Thomas Jefferson never said “ I advance it therefore as a suspicion only, that the blacks, whether originally a distinct race, or made distinct by time and circumstances, are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the U.S. Supreme Court in the famous Dred Scott case did not say about Blacks that, “They had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior, that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect; and that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then President Andrew Jackson in his fifth annual message to the country never said this about native Americans. “They have neither the intelligence, the industry, the moral habits, nor the desire of improvement which are essential to any favorable change in their condition. Established in the midst of another and a superior race, and without appreciating the causes of their inferiority or seeking to control them, they must necessarily yield to the force of circumstances and ere long disappear.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Theodore Roosevelt never said this about Native Americans. “The settler and pioneer have at bottom had justice on their side; this great continent could not have been kept as nothing but a game preserve for squalid savages. Moreover, to the most oppressed Indian nations the whites often acted as a protection, or, at least, they deferred instead of hastening their fate.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming did not at one time have a law on the books prohibiting marriage of Asians (they used the term Mongoloids) and Whites.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then a Georgia court in 1869 did not rule that, “The amalgamation of the races is not only unnatural but is always productive of deplorable results.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Alabama did not write a law stating, “It shall be unlawful for a negro and white person to play together or in company with each other at any game of pool or billiards.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the Federal Housing Administration underwriting manual did not include an article stating “The infiltration of inharmonious racial groups will produce the same effects as those which follow the introduction of nonconforming land uses which tend to lower the levels of land values and to lessen the desirability of residential areas.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the U.S. Justice Department in 2012 did not find evidence of widespread mortgage lending discrimination by Wells Fargo Bank and say that “African-American and Hispanic wholesale borrowers paid more than non-Hispanic white wholesale borrowers, not based on borrower risk, but because of their race or national origin. Wells Fargo’s business practice allowed its loan officers and mortgage brokers to vary a loan’s interest rate and other fees from the price it set based on the borrower’s objective credit-related factors . This subjective and unguided pricing discretion resulted in African-American and Hispanic borrowers paying more. The complaint alleges that Wells Fargo was aware the fees and interest rates it was charging discriminated against African-American and Hispanic borrowers, but the actions it took were insufficient and ineffective in stopping it.”

I could continue with a significantly longer list. I’ll suffice it to say that the examples stated above provide evidence of the longstanding practices, polices and beliefs which are the core of systemic racism. It is not hidden history, it was simply omitted history. The facts were and still are left out of what we learn about American history to our detriment. As a result, many still cling to the belief that America has always supported freedom, justice and liberty for all. Contrary to Trump’s executive order no one is teaching Americans to hate their country. That’s like saying that if you tell a person to learn that they got what they had because of the advantage of being White that they should hate America.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the tremendous disparities we see across the country are emblematic of flawed people of color.

For those who choose to continue believing these things, you are a part of the problem. Your denials are counterproductive and tell us why there is so much division in this country today. The United States of America is at the proverbial fork in the road. 2020 will go down as a squandered opportunity to finally tell the truth as Germany and South Africa (regardless of how flawed the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa has been) both did about their horrible pasts. It could possibly go down as the year we finally expanded our truth telling of the racism embedded in the basic fabric of America. White Americans of “goodwill” must decide which path we take. People of color have done their part by sharing their stories.
Written by Reggie Jackson

"Since it is the liberal cities that are the problem"

I dont think I ever said that. In any event, it's not "liberal cities" that are the problem. The biggest problem is black fatherlessness, which exists in liberal cities and conservative cities. That problem, however, is made much worse by liberal principles - casual sex, men are bad, masculinity is toxic, the nuclear family is an anachronism, all family structures are equally functional, telling blacks that the reason they are failing to thrive is racism instead of the choices they choose to make, paying teenage girls a bonus to not have a dad around to raise the baby. From where I sit, a core principle of liberalism is, "if it feels good, do it and ignore the consequences." Turns out, that's a short-sighted and stupid philosophy.

"If systemic racism isn’t real, then the tremendous disparities we see across the country are emblematic of flawed people of color."

For the most part, thats correct. But it has nothing to do with race, here's proof of that.

Black children born into homes with two loving, committed, stable parents, tend to do fine.

White kids born out of wedlock to teenage mothers with chaotic and unstable lives, tend to struggle mightily.

It has almost nothing to do with race.

White privilege is billsh*t. The one privilege that actually matters, is "I was born into a strong family with two loving parents who were dedicated to me" privilege.

You don't like that truth, so you blame it on racism.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Since it is the liberal cities that are the problem why is that the highest number of Black Americans can be found in Texas (3.96 million), Florida (3.70 million), Georgia (3.54 million) or if you do it as a percentage of population It's Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia and Maryland.
Which Side controls those states?

There is a list below that you can rebut to prove that systematic racism doesn't exist.

There was a time where White people in America were not ashamed of racism and flaunted it openly. White racists documented for the world to see, their systemic efforts to build advantages for themselves, while simultaneously disadvantaging those they called a myriad of different names to separate them from membership in their group. In other words, racism was not hidden. The evidence of systemic racism is copious in books, manuscripts, memoirs, laws, public debates, legislative halls and numerous famous court cases.

To argue that systemic racism is a myth is to erase all of those sources of evidence. It is impossible to do so. So those who make the argument have been forced to use one of the oldest tricks known to man, they blame the victims for their condition. I’ve previously written about victim blaming on a number of occasions so I won’t rehash that here. Simply put, victim blaming is finding some characteristic shared by members of a class of people you want to treat poorly, and using that as the rationale for treating them poorly.

For Native Americans it took the form of blaming them for “wasting” the land by not using the land in the way Europeans wanted to use it. For Africans kidnapped and forced to work for free for two and a half centuries, America called them lazy and dumb while making them work sixteen to eighteen hour days and also making it illegal for them to learn to read and write. For those who one day were citizens of Mexico and then forced to be Americans with the The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, it was calling their language and traditions uncivilized. Those who migrated from Asia were told their way of life was poisonous to this nation and they themselves were a “yellow peril.”

All of these things are copiously documented by White people. Their words in speeches, books, court decisions and numerous other places provide all the evidence needed to prove the existence of long-term systemic racism. Can people who want to shame other Whites into not learning this ugly history erase this evidence? Of course they can’t. Instead they try to double down on the lies we all learned in school about America. Lies are becoming quite the rage over the last four years.

If these deniers of systemic racism are right, then certain fundamental things must be either true or false. Let’s explore a long list of some of these things. Only a fool or liar would deny these things if they spent a little time at a local library or bookstore.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then people of African descent must have voluntarily left their families, friends, and communities by placing themselves in chains and sitting on the coast of Africa waiting for thousands of slaving ships over nearly four hundred years to arrive and take them to an unknown land so that they could work for free.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then millions of Indigenous people must have gotten together and decided that the millions of square miles of homelands they loved were worthless and should be given to strange men from afar so that they could disassociate themselves from their cultures and traditions.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Africans and Native people must have seen a great benefit in working for free from before the sun rose until well after it set, all to give the fruits of their labor to these people who called themselves Christians.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then those Native leaders who convinced their people to fight people with superior weapons must have just simply wanted to see their families and friends slaughtered for the pure fun of it.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then those Africans who escaped their captivity by fleeing to the brutal winters in Canada must have really preferred freezing to death to living in the comfort of what Isabel Wilkerson called the “warmth of other suns.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then those people of European ancestry must have some real advantage intellectually, and never feared giving Africans a level playing field by allowing them to read and write for generations.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then African and Native women must have been detestable creatures that White men could only find sexually attractive as rape victims.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then White women who slept with Black men while their husbands and mates were away fighting the Civil War, had no attraction to the forbidden fruit known as “negro brutes” by their husbands.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then all of the African ancestored people called mulatto, quadroon, octoroon etc. really did not have the blood of White rapists coursing through their veins, they were simply born with pale skin, blue eyes and non-curly hair.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Black people who were given barely edible scraps like the intestines of the hog by Whites really saw no value in eating high off the hog as Whites did.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Thomas Jefferson never said “ I advance it therefore as a suspicion only, that the blacks, whether originally a distinct race, or made distinct by time and circumstances, are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the U.S. Supreme Court in the famous Dred Scott case did not say about Blacks that, “They had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior, that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect; and that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then President Andrew Jackson in his fifth annual message to the country never said this about native Americans. “They have neither the intelligence, the industry, the moral habits, nor the desire of improvement which are essential to any favorable change in their condition. Established in the midst of another and a superior race, and without appreciating the causes of their inferiority or seeking to control them, they must necessarily yield to the force of circumstances and ere long disappear.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Theodore Roosevelt never said this about Native Americans. “The settler and pioneer have at bottom had justice on their side; this great continent could not have been kept as nothing but a game preserve for squalid savages. Moreover, to the most oppressed Indian nations the whites often acted as a protection, or, at least, they deferred instead of hastening their fate.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming did not at one time have a law on the books prohibiting marriage of Asians (they used the term Mongoloids) and Whites.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then a Georgia court in 1869 did not rule that, “The amalgamation of the races is not only unnatural but is always productive of deplorable results.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then Alabama did not write a law stating, “It shall be unlawful for a negro and white person to play together or in company with each other at any game of pool or billiards.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the Federal Housing Administration underwriting manual did not include an article stating “The infiltration of inharmonious racial groups will produce the same effects as those which follow the introduction of nonconforming land uses which tend to lower the levels of land values and to lessen the desirability of residential areas.”

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the U.S. Justice Department in 2012 did not find evidence of widespread mortgage lending discrimination by Wells Fargo Bank and say that “African-American and Hispanic wholesale borrowers paid more than non-Hispanic white wholesale borrowers, not based on borrower risk, but because of their race or national origin. Wells Fargo’s business practice allowed its loan officers and mortgage brokers to vary a loan’s interest rate and other fees from the price it set based on the borrower’s objective credit-related factors . This subjective and unguided pricing discretion resulted in African-American and Hispanic borrowers paying more. The complaint alleges that Wells Fargo was aware the fees and interest rates it was charging discriminated against African-American and Hispanic borrowers, but the actions it took were insufficient and ineffective in stopping it.”

I could continue with a significantly longer list. I’ll suffice it to say that the examples stated above provide evidence of the longstanding practices, polices and beliefs which are the core of systemic racism. It is not hidden history, it was simply omitted history. The facts were and still are left out of what we learn about American history to our detriment. As a result, many still cling to the belief that America has always supported freedom, justice and liberty for all. Contrary to Trump’s executive order no one is teaching Americans to hate their country. That’s like saying that if you tell a person to learn that they got what they had because of the advantage of being White that they should hate America.

If systemic racism isn’t real, then the tremendous disparities we see across the country are emblematic of flawed people of color.

For those who choose to continue believing these things, you are a part of the problem. Your denials are counterproductive and tell us why there is so much division in this country today. The United States of America is at the proverbial fork in the road. 2020 will go down as a squandered opportunity to finally tell the truth as Germany and South Africa (regardless of how flawed the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa has been) both did about their horrible pasts. It could possibly go down as the year we finally expanded our truth telling of the racism embedded in the basic fabric of America. White Americans of “goodwill” must decide which path we take. People of color have done their part by sharing their stories.
Written by Reggie Jackson

The guy who wrote that nonsense, wants there to be systemic racism.

You can't just see that average black income is lower than average white income (called a univariate analysis, because you're only looking at one variable - race), and conclude it's because if race. You must "normalize" for all other variables so that the only difference between the 2 groups is race, and then see what average incomes look like. If you don't do that, your race groups could be (in this case, will be) very different in terms of family structure of each, average education of each, professions entered by each, etc).

If black doctors who went to Harvard medical school and graduated with a 4.0, make less than white doctors with the same exact credentials, it could be racism. But you need to make your comparisons "apples to apples". You can't just compare white income to black income, unless you account for all the other variables, and force them to be the same between the two groups.

The author of that article took you for a sucker.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

good lord i didn’t even catch that. god almighty.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I did, and I just scrolled on by. Keeps the blood pressure down
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I did, and I just scrolled on by. Keeps the blood pressure down
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

would be good for me to take a sabbatical from this forum for awhile
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The guy who wrote that nonsense, wants there to be systemic racism.

You can't just see that average black income is lower than average white income (called a univariate analysis, because you're only looking at one variable - race), and conclude it's because if race. You must "normalize" for all other variables so that the only difference between the 2 groups is race, and then see what average incomes look like. If you don't do that, your race groups could be (in this case, will be) very different in terms of family structure of each, average education of each, professions entered by each, etc).

If black doctors who went to Harvard medical school and graduated with a 4.0, make less than white doctors with the same exact credentials, it could be racism. But you need to make your comparisons "apples to apples". You can't just compare white income to black income, unless you account for all the other variables, and force them to be the same between the two groups.

The author of that article took you for a sucker.

The rhetoric you recite shows who you are. Do you say this out loud at work?
Or hide what you believe?

Black men with a 4 year college degree can get to within 80% of whites

https://www.jbhe.com/news_views/47_f...gedegrees.html
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The rhetoric you recite shows who you are. Do you say this out loud at work?
Or hide what you believe?

Black men with a 4 year college degree can get to within 80% of whites

https://www.jbhe.com/news_views/47_f...gedegrees.html
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"The rhetoric you recite shows who you are. Do you say this out loud at work?
Or hide what you believe?"

No way I'd say it at work, too many woke ignoramuses like you would get triggered. Yes, it does show who I am. I am someone who thinks that if a black child was born with the same parents I had, and did everything the same way I did, they'd pretty much be exactly where I am right now.

Pete, show me the data that says when you do a true apples to apples comparison, there are huge differences in outcomes by race. There's simply no way that's true, because it would be against the law, and every ACLYU lawyer in the world would be suing on behalf of the victims.

For the 4th or 5th time, if it's white racism keeping blacks down, HOW COME ASIANS DO BETTER THAN WHITES?

The Brookings Institute did a well-known (and much-despised by the left) study. Turns out, if you want to avoid poverty, you can be almost guaranteed to do so, by following three very simple rules...

"1. Graduating from high school.

2. Waiting to get married until after 21 and do not have children till after being married.

3. Having a full-time job.

If you do all those three things, your chance of falling into poverty is just 2 percent. Meanwhile, you’ll have a 74 percent chance of being in the middle class.

Applies to everyone
These rules apply to all races and ethnic groups. "

Given these facts, why not encourage everyone to follow those rules? Do you think blacks are genetically incapable of following those rules? I don't.

https://www.jacksonville.com/article...NION/801258741

"Black men with a 4 year college degree can get to within 80% of whites"

I doubt the gap is that big when you normalize for other variables besides race. But let's address the huge problem (fatherlessness), get blacks to within 80%, then chip away at the remaining obstacles.

I looked up a fascinating stat. Black immigrants from Africa, have higher average incomes, than American blacks. That's astounding to me. Black immigrants from Africa have an average income of 43k, while the average income for American born blacks is 33.5k, 22% lower.

Why is that? Are you going to tell me that white supremacists aren't as racist towards black immigrants as they are towards American blacks? Or is it possible that black immigrants haven't yet been exposed to the poisonous culture that liberalism shrouds American blacks in? You'd say the former. I'd say the latter. Immigrants, for the most part, come here wanting to work, wanting their kids to get the best possible education. Liberalism goes a long way towards destroying those impulses in American blacks, because liberals tell blacks they're victims and can't help themselves, therefore they need to vote for democrats to get a big welfare check.


https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...nt-population/

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The rhetoric you recite shows who you are. Do you say this out loud at work?
Or hide what you believe?

Black men with a 4 year college degree can get to within 80% of whites

https://www.jbhe.com/news_views/47_f...gedegrees.html
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I read your idiotic post. Same issue, it's not apples to apples. So the conclusions are invalid.

Here's where your 80% gibberish comes from, within your link...

"In 2003 black males with a bachelor's degree had a median income of $41,916, which was only 82 percent of the $51,138 median income of similarly educated white males. Thus, a very large racial income gap persists for black men"

The author looked at black males with a bachelors, and compared average income to white males with a bachelors. The average incomes for blacks are 20% less, and the author immediately (stupidly) concludes that every cent of that is due to racism.

That over simplistic conclusion, would get you a richly deserved F in any serious statistics class or social sciences class.

Why? Because there are several acceptable, non-racial reasons, why that income gap can exist. Most obvious is the nature of the degrees obtained by each group. I am purely speculating here, but if blacks are more likely to go to less prestigious schools, less likely to pursue majors that are the most lucrative, that would be an explanation that has nothing to do with race. If more blacks go into teaching, and more whites go into engineering, that explains the gap and there's nothing racist about it.

You need to compare groups that are identical in every way, except race. Otherwise, the effect of another variable will skew the results. That's rudimentary social science math. You learn that the first week.

Sorry to destroy your desperate attempt to show we're racist, but all it took was an understanding of chapter 1 of a statistics text.

Liberals tried the same crap to show a gender pay gap, which just about disappears when you normalize for years of experience and the fact that women and men tend to pursue different professions.

You cannot win an honest debate on this topic. You're not holding any cards.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I read your idiotic post. Same issue, it's not apples to apples. So the conclusions are invalid.

Here's where your 80% gibberish comes from, within your link...

"In 2003 black males with a bachelor's degree had a median income of $41,916, which was only 82 percent of the $51,138 median income of similarly educated white males. Thus, a very large racial income gap persists for black men"

The author looked at black males with a bachelors, and compared average income to white males with a bachelors. The average incomes for blacks are 20% less, and the author immediately (stupidly) concludes that every cent of that is due to racism.

That over simplistic conclusion, would get you a richly deserved F in any serious statistics class or social sciences class.

Why? Because there are several acceptable, non-racial reasons, why that income gap can exist. Most obvious is the nature of the degrees obtained by each group. I am purely speculating here, but if blacks are more likely to go to less prestigious schools, less likely to pursue majors that are the most lucrative, that would be an explanation that has nothing to do with race. If more blacks go into teaching, and more whites go into engineering, that explains the gap and there's nothing racist about it.

You need to compare groups that are identical in every way, except race. Otherwise, the effect of another variable will skew the results. That's rudimentary social science math. You learn that the first week.

Sorry to destroy your desperate attempt to show we're racist, but all it took was an understanding of chapter 1 of a statistics text.

Liberals tried the same crap to show a gender pay gap, which just about disappears when you normalize for years of experience and the fact that women and men tend to pursue different professions.

You cannot win an honest debate on this topic. You're not holding any cards.

The rhetoric you recite shows who you are.

Do you say this out loud at work?

Or hide what you believe?

For the second time...........

No Jim, I assume that there are other factors.
What would they be, unless you are saying that blacks are dumber than whites.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The rhetoric you recite shows who you are.

Do you say this out loud at work?

Or hide what you believe?

For the second time...........

this is the LOWEST FORM OF DISCOURSE...GREAT JOB X 2

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

this is the LOWEST FORM OF DISCOURSE...GREAT JOB X 2

Can you?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

No way I'd say it at work, too many woke ignoramuses like you would get triggered. Yes, it does show who I am. I am someone who thinks that if a black child was born with the same parents I had, and did everything the same way I did, they'd pretty much be exactly where I am right now.

It pretty much triggers you, doesn't it?

And yet you see absolutely no evidence of white privilege.

https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-j...ect-imaginable

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It pretty much triggers you, doesn't it?

And yet you see absolutely no evidence of white privilege.

https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-j...ect-imaginable

"It pretty much triggers you, doesn't it?"

No, it just gives me the opportunity to bitch slap you some more.

"yet you see absolutely no evidence of white privilege"

Pretty sure I didn't say that. What I said, is that race isn't anywhere near the force your side desperately wants it to be.

Pete, I used sound facts and logic to completely annihilate your post. You can't just concede I might have a small, valid point there?

I believe in some white privilege, as I believe there's such a thing as black privilege (affirmative action, etc). I believe that race-based privilege is nothing compared to the caliber of the parents one is born into.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"It pretty much triggers you, doesn't it?"

No, it just gives me the opportunity to bitch slap you some more.

"yet you see absolutely no evidence of white privilege"

Pretty sure I didn't say that. What I said, is that race isn't anywhere near the force your side desperately wants it to be.

Pete, I used sound facts and logic to completely annihilate your post. You can't just concede I might have a small, valid point there?

I believe in some white privilege, as I believe there's such a thing as black privilege (affirmative action, etc). I believe that race-based privilege is nothing compared to the caliber of the parents one is born into.

No annihilation occurs when you quote tropes as truth, silly girl

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

No annihilation occurs when you quote tropes as truth, silly girl

I see. So it's a "trope", not a "truth", to say you need to do a multivariate analysis, not a univariate analysis, when attempting to answer such questions.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I see. So it's a "trope", not a "truth", to say you need to do a multivariate analysis, not a univariate analysis, when attempting to answer such questions.

No, your tropes are simpler than that
Black fatherlessness
If they were like the good Asians
If they would only just obey they wouldn't be shot
If they studied like Asians
Black parents don't want their children to graduate from high school.
Black parents don't want their children to get married until after 21 and not have children till after being married.
Black parents don't want their children to have a full-time job.
All they are good for is professional sports and they should keep their mouths shut and be thankful. Well, except if they are antivaccine

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

No, your tropes are simpler than that
Black fatherlessness
If they were like the good Asians
If they would only just obey they wouldn't be shot
If they studied like Asians
Black parents don't want their children to graduate from high school.
Black parents don't want their children to get married until after 21 and not have children till after being married.
Black parents don't want their children to have a full-time job.
All they are good for is professional sports and they should keep their mouths shut and be thankful. Well, except if they are antivaccine

"If they were like the good Asians
If they would only just obey they wouldn't be shot"

Never said anything remotely like that (hearing them voices, I see). We were talking about economic success.

"Black parents don't want their children to graduate from high school.
Black parents don't want their children to get married until after 21 and not have children till after being married.
Black parents don't want their children to have a full-time job."

I didn't say blacks don't want those things. I'm not great at mind-reading. But they aren't doing those things often enough. Not because racists prevent them from doing so (your stupid argument), but because they don't embrace the importance of doing so. And liberalism is greatly responsible for that, because liberalism doesn't preach hard work, personal responsibility. Liberalism is all about the quick feel-good payoff.

"All they are good for is professional sports and they should keep their mouths shut and be thankful."

I can't imagine how you concluded that from anything I said. What I said, is that when blacks make good decisions, they do just as well as any other race who makes good decisions.

Pete, who are you responding to with this nonsense? It's not me.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

For Gods sake Pete, if racism was a big factor in anything, why are Asians the most economically successful ethnicity in the country? Asians are wealthier than whites. How could that possibly happen in a nation of white supremacists?

Answer - Asian culture places huge importance on strong families, and the incredible power of education and hard work. That's it. Nothing to do with race. Zip.

You never said……..
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You never said……..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

where in there, did i say blacks are only good for sports?

i’ll ask you another simple question which you’ll
dodge.

if blacks had tight knit families and embraced their
kids’ education and work ethic like asians, do you not think blacks would do as well as asians? if not, why not?

i’m saying any group, regardless of race, who makes the wrong decisions, will struggle. any group who makes the right decisions, regardless of race, will do fine.

the data is clear, blacks ( for whatever reason) aren’t making the productive decisions as frequently as other races. That’s why they aren’t thriving to the same degree as other races.

if it’s racism, how come black immigrants are doing so
much better the. american born blacks? how could you possibly explain that?

i’m friendly with the family that runs the shell station in my town, i go
i’m the convenience store a lot. they came from africa with nothing, mother father and two
kids who are now in college. he was the first person i ever heard say, that his kids ( being black) were better off being born in africa and coming here as immigrants, than if they were born here. there’s some american cultural force that is pushing blacks to make unproductive decisions. liberalism is absolutely a part of it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i’m saying any group, regardless of race, who makes the wrong decisions, will struggle. any group who makes the right decisions, regardless of race, will do fine.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Bingo
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT;1216607

if blacks had tight knit families and embraced their
kids’ education and work ethic like asians, do you not think blacks would do as well as asians?

[size=1

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device[/size]

Another statement for the history books

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks

'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks


https://www.brookings.edu/research/a...eneralization/


You’ve been radicalized to believe Liberals are responsible for racism, slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan. They admire Mussolini and Hitler, and modern liberalism is little different from fascism or, even worse, communism. The mainstream media and academia cannot be trusted because of the pervasive, totalitarian nature of liberal culture.

Jim you have been completely indoctrinated by the right wing

You regurgitation of these talking points over and over . Is clear evidence … you’re down the rabbit hole .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Another statement for the history books

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks

'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks


https://www.brookings.edu/research/a...eneralization/


You’ve been radicalized to believe Liberals are responsible for racism, slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan. They admire Mussolini and Hitler, and modern liberalism is little different from fascism or, even worse, communism. The mainstream media and academia cannot be trusted because of the pervasive, totalitarian nature of liberal culture.

Jim you have been completely indoctrinated by the right wing

You regurgitation of these talking points over and over . Is clear evidence … you’re down the rabbit hole .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

more than 70% of black kids are born without a dad in the home.

is that a fact? or have i been indoctrinated?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Another statement for the history books

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks

'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks


https://www.brookings.edu/research/a...eneralization/


You’ve been radicalized to believe Liberals are responsible for racism, slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan. They admire Mussolini and Hitler, and modern liberalism is little different from fascism or, even worse, communism. The mainstream media and academia cannot be trusted because of the pervasive, totalitarian nature of liberal culture.

Jim you have been completely indoctrinated by the right wing

You regurgitation of these talking points over and over . Is clear evidence … you’re down the rabbit hole .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"You’ve been radicalized to believe Liberals are responsible for racism, slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan."

Democrats weren't the party of slavery and segregation? Then who was? The Whigs? The Tories?

"They admire Mussolini and Hitler"

I obviously never said anything like that...

"Jim you have been completely indoctrinated by the right wing "

Yet I can list major issues on which I think conservatives are 100% wrong and liberals are 100% right. Show me that you're not the radical, indoctrinate done. Go ahead, tell us which major policy issues, you think liberals are 100% wrong on, and conservatives are 100% correct on.

If you can't list any, I'm pretty sure that means you're the radical, and I'm the moderate. You can't criticize liberals in favor of a conservative, ever. But you're not radical or indoctrinated?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Another statement for the history books

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks

'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks


https://www.brookings.edu/research/a...eneralization/


You’ve been radicalized to believe Liberals are responsible for racism, slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan. They admire Mussolini and Hitler, and modern liberalism is little different from fascism or, even worse, communism. The mainstream media and academia cannot be trusted because of the pervasive, totalitarian nature of liberal culture.

Jim you have been completely indoctrinated by the right wing

You regurgitation of these talking points over and over . Is clear evidence … you’re down the rabbit hole .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

From one of your links...

"It is certainly true that treated as a whole group, Asian-Americans appear to be doing well. Relative to other racial and ethnic minorities, they live in wealthier neighborhoods, have high marriage rates, high levels of educational achievement, and are successful in the labor market."

Proving me 100% correct.

"Asian-Americans are more likely to believe that academic achievement results from greater effort, rather than greater skill. This belief can in fact explain a large part of the superior academic outcomes for Asian-Americans, according to some studies. Believing that hard work pays off, Asian-American students work harder—and, for them, it pays off."

Also proving me 100% correct.

Did you not read these?

"Asian-Americans live near better schools. This explanation for higher achievement is of course a rather boring one, compared to appeals to culture. But it suggests that policymakers would do better to promote higher-performing schools than worry too much about promoting “Asian values.”

Idiotic (its not random that asians live near better schools, it's because they are wealthy), but even if you assume that's valid, its a great argument for school choice. Which party supports school choice, and which party opposes school choice, Wayne?

"But there are wide differences between different Asian-American groups. Many are struggling economically;"

Obviously true. No one ever said all asians are identical. We're making broad generalizations here. Not all blacks are identical, not all whites are identical.

"The Asian groups faring poorly are those living in areas with poorer quality schools—similar, in fact, to those in which African Americans live"

Again, a superb argument in favor of school choice.

Wayne, you think any of that proves me wrong somehow?

If you stay in school, work hard, don't have kids until you are married, then regardless of race, it's very very unlikely you will be poor.

If you don't like that fact, that's your problem. If racism was a big deal, the data would show that blacks don't escape poverty when they follow those rules. But the data is clear, blacks enjoy similar benefits when they make productive decisions. That doesn't mean there's zero racism, but it's not a big deal.