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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
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Old 11-05-2008, 10:26 PM   #1
Nebe
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Phase II

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Old 11-06-2008, 05:30 AM   #2
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these dooshwads make me sick. BOTH of them.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:42 AM   #3
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Joe Biden is gonna wind up "Biden" Obama on the ass!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 11-06-2008, 07:27 AM   #4
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They are just looking to play the blame game.
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Old 11-06-2008, 07:43 AM   #5
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Angry im tired

not of the candidates

but the war between the fed law and state law
trumping each other back and forth is a JOKE
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Old 11-06-2008, 07:44 AM   #6
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They are just looking to play the blame game.
I actually thought Biden's remarks were extremely rational and articulate. A good percentage of the country believes the Bush Administration has very possibly violated the law.

How can we ever learn from past actions if they are not held to account?

-spence
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:18 AM   #7
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Thank you spence.
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:33 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by spence View Post
I actually thought Biden's remarks were extremely rational and articulate. A good percentage of the country believes the Bush Administration has very possibly violated the law.

How can we ever learn from past actions if they are not held to account?

-spence
My thoughts are that this is going to cost millions of dollars and still come up with nothing. How about they focus on the economy.

Good thing I am overweight. I'll be living off my fat reserves. Job prospects are terrible right now. Most prospective jobs (in my trade) are talking SPRINGTIME. No one wants to start new projects as I believe they are very concerned about the next 4 to 6 months.

I've been out of work now for 5 weeks and its not looking to get any better until April or so. The last time things got bad like this (1989) I moved out of state. Can't do that now though as I have different responsibilities.


Oh and just for the record even if McCain had won, things wouldn't be any different. Obama is going to have his hands full. Lets just hope he can do something.


And just for the record. I'm not a republican. There is a (U) after my name on the paper they checked before I voted. I didn't vote for McCain. Or for Obama for that matter.

Last edited by MAC; 11-06-2008 at 08:55 AM.. Reason: added text
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:14 AM   #9
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Larry.
Not everyone here has a short memory.

If you went back to the 04 election, I bet my posts were for the candidate who did not want us in Iraq to begin with, so me, thinking we went into Iraq under false pretenses is NOT a new idea for all of us.

As the expression goes; no one died when Clinton lied....

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:30 AM   #10
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I cant believe Bigfish is defending Bush, Larry as one who has valiently fought this fight, its not worth it. Let them be. You'll never convince these guys no matter what. Its over, Obama is President , Bush will down in history as a bad president and the Dems will do everything they can while they are in power to point the finger as Bush, while all the while saying he was a "divider" while they are uniters. Nt worth the grief Larry, take it from me.

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Old 11-06-2008, 09:30 AM   #11
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http://intelligence.senate.gov/press....cfm?id=298775

Senate Intelligence Committee Unveils Final Phase II Reports on Prewar Iraq Intelligence

-- Two Bipartisan Reports Detail Administration Misstatements on Prewar Iraq Intelligence, and Inappropriate Intelligence Activities by Pentagon Policy Office --

Contact: Wendy Morigi (202) 224-6101
Thursday, June 5, 2008



Washington, DC -- The Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, John D. (Jay) Rockefeller IV, and a bipartisan majority of the Committee (10-5), today unveiled the final two sections of its Phase II report on prewar intelligence. The first report details Administration prewar statements that, on numerous occasions, misrepresented the intelligence and the threat from Iraq. The second report details inappropriate, sensitive intelligence activities conducted by the DoD’s Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, without the knowledge of the Intelligence Community or the State Department.

“Before taking the country to war, this Administration owed it to the American people to give them a 100 percent accurate picture of the threat we faced. Unfortunately, our Committee has concluded that the Administration made significant claims that were not supported by the intelligence,” Rockefeller said. “In making the case for war, the Administration repeatedly presented intelligence as fact when in reality it was unsubstantiated, contradicted, or even non-existent. As a result, the American people were led to believe that the threat from Iraq was much greater than actually existed.”

“It is my belief that the Bush Administration was fixated on Iraq, and used the 9/11 attacks by al Qa’ida as justification for overthrowing Saddam Hussein. To accomplish this, top Administration officials made repeated statements that falsely linked Iraq and al Qa’ida as a single threat and insinuated that Iraq played a role in 9/11. Sadly, the Bush Administration led the nation into war under false pretenses.

“There is no question we all relied on flawed intelligence. But, there is a fundamental difference between relying on incorrect intelligence and deliberately painting a picture to the American people that you know is not fully accurate.

“These reports represent the final chapter in our oversight of prewar intelligence. They complete the story of mistakes and failures – both by the Intelligence Community and the Administration – in the lead up to the war. Fundamentally, these reports are about transparency and holding our government accountable, and making sure these mistakes never happen again,” Rockefeller added.

The Committee’s report cites several conclusions in which the Administration’s public statements were NOT supported by the intelligence. They include:

Ø Statements and implications by the President and Secretary of State suggesting that Iraq and al-Qa’ida had a partnership, or that Iraq had provided al-Qa’ida with weapons training, were not substantiated by the intelligence.

Ø Statements by the President and the Vice President indicating that Saddam Hussein was prepared to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups for attacks against the United States were contradicted by available intelligence information.

Ø Statements by President Bush and Vice President Cheney regarding the postwar situation in Iraq, in terms of the political, security, and economic, did not reflect the concerns and uncertainties expressed in the intelligence products.

Ø Statements by the President and Vice President prior to the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq’s chemical weapons production capability and activities did not reflect the intelligence community’s uncertainties as to whether such production was ongoing.

Ø The Secretary of Defense’s statement that the Iraqi government operated underground WMD facilities that were not vulnerable to conventional airstrikes because they were underground and deeply buried was not substantiated by available intelligence information.

Ø The Intelligence Community did not confirm that Muhammad Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague in 2001 as the Vice President repeatedly claimed.


Additionally, the Committee issued a report on the Intelligence Activities Relating to Iraq conducted by the Policy Counterterrorism Evaluation Group and the Office of Special Plans within the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy. The report found that the clandestine meetings between Pentagon officials and Iranians in Rome and Paris were inappropriate and mishandled from beginning to end. Deputy National Security Advisor Steve Hadley and Deputy Secretary Paul Wolfowitz failed to keep the Intelligence Community and the State Department appropriately informed about the meetings. The involvement of Manucher Ghobanifer and Michael Ledeen in the meetings was inappropriate. Potentially important information collected during the meetings was withheld from intelligence agencies by Pentagon officials. Finally, senior Defense Department officials cut short internal investigations of the meetings and failed to implement the recommendations of their own counterintelligence experts.

Today’s reports are the culmination of efforts that began in March 2003, when, as Vice Chairman, Senator Rockefeller initially requested an investigation into the origin of the fraudulent Niger documents. In June 2003, he was joined by all Democrats on the Committee in pushing for a full investigation into prewar intelligence, which was eventually expanded by the Committee in February 2004 to include the five phase II tasks.

The Committee released its first report on July 9, 2004, which focused primarily on the Intelligence Community’s prewar assessments of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs and links to terrorism. Those findings helped lay the foundation for some of the intelligence reforms enacted into law in late 2004.

In September 2006, the Committee completed and publicly released two sections of Phase II: The Use by the Intelligence Community of Information Provided by the Iraqi National Congress; and Postwar Findings About Iraq’s WMD Programs and Links to Terrorism and How They Compare with Prewar Assessments.

In May 2007, the Committee released the third section of Phase II: Prewar Intelligence Assessments About Postwar Iraq.

Separately, in early 2007, the Pentagon Inspector General released its own report on the intelligence activities conducted by the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy and also concluded that those activities were inappropriate.

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:24 PM   #12
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I agree Bronko.
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:45 PM   #13
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I agree Bronko.

The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. ~John Buchan
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:30 PM   #14
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I was just asking... but it doesnt just end with "misleading"

but those sly ivy league lawyers of the DoD who thought up that crap should be held to account, no? There should be hearings and subsequent war crimes indictments. And if the higher ups are found to be complicit (Rumsfeld) they should be charged as well and if found guilty sent to prison. Do you agree, partisanship aside?

This administration broke the law, plain and simple. And what the hell is up with old dude's use of presidential signing statement. According to the American Bar Association his generous use of them (as opposed to Reagans or Bush Sr.) is "contrary to the rule of law and our constitutional system of separation of powers". I'd be sweating if I was Karl Rove....

With regard to the Bush Administration, I only offer this advice.

You can fool some people all the time and fool all people some of the time, But you cant fool ALL people ALL the time....
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Old 11-06-2008, 04:09 PM   #15
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Bronko and Nebe, that theres living proof of the unity Obama brings to us all

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Old 11-06-2008, 04:13 PM   #16
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Bronko and Nebe, that theres living proof of the unity Obama brings to us all

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Old 11-06-2008, 04:22 PM   #17
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Wink

Kinda like the coyote and road runner when they punch out at the end of the day.

The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. ~John Buchan
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Old 11-06-2008, 04:23 PM   #18
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yes and I am the road runner...

thweep thweep....
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:24 PM   #19
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I'm glad Saddam is dead. I have a very low opinion of those who are not.

The beatings will continue until morale improves
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:48 PM   #20
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I'm glad Saddam is dead. I have a very low opinion of those who are not.
I see now how disconnected your rational is from anything of substance. What an odd thing to say.

-spence
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