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look at Europe
unfortunately any change will be brought about by the welfare state and extreme liberals, why? They;re the ones that want more and want you to pay for it and they do not have to hold down full time jobs! Most working people wont have the time to rebel, they have bills to pay.
look at Europe
unfortunately any change will be brought about by the welfare state and extreme liberals, why? They;re the ones that want more and want you to pay for it and they do not have to hold down full time jobs! Most working people wont have the time to rebel, they have bills to pay.
I consider myself a liberal and pay lots of taxes. I don't want more of anything.
I guess I could say that it seems to me it will be the conservatives who don't have any concern for anyone less fortunate than themselves - the "I got mine and could care less about anyone else" mentality.
I wonder how the author of the proposal to divide up the country into 2 considers him a good American?
I consider myself a liberal and pay lots of taxes. I don't want more of anything.
I guess I could say that it seems to me it will be the conservatives who don't have any concern for anyone less fortunate than themselves - the "I got mine and could care less about anyone else" mentality.
I wonder how the author of the proposal to divide up the country into 2 considers him a good American?
typical response from you. any proof conervatives dont care about the less fortunate? run yourself a little google on charity of dems vs. repubs.....
have kids? I guess you could coddle them when they dont do well on a test, tell them it was too hard. Or you could inspire them to work harder and do better. I prefer the latter for my kids and my countrymen. no handouts needed.
typical response from you. any proof conervatives dont care about the less fortunate? run yourself a little google on charity of dems vs. repubs.....
have kids? I guess you could coddle them when they dont do well on a test, tell them it was too hard. Or you could inspire them to work harder and do better. I prefer the latter for my kids and my countrymen. no handouts needed.
and yours was a typical response from you.
Where is your proof? - I just proved your statement wrong? I would guess most repubs. give a lot of the charity to self serving things - (ie church - which is ok b/c I give a lot to my church but then I don't claim that I give more in charity then someone else).
Where is your proof? - I just proved your statement wrong? I would guess most repubs. give a lot of the charity to self serving things - (ie church - which is ok b/c I give a lot to my church but then I don't claim that I give more in charity then someone else).
I think there's plenty of research showing conservatives generally giving more as a % of income if you just look at the straight numbers.
What they fail to account for though is that the wealthy liberal elite needs the extra cash to pay for parking in the city
ahh my proof? easy one my friend. I assume you mean proof that the libs will be leading an uprising?
here you go, enjoy.....
so tell me....look like conservatives to you???
lets compare that to those tea party terrorists......
so, am I speculating, yes. BUT, I like the odds and will stick to my original statement. it will be libs uprising, just like in europe, just like the RNC. maybe not you or other hardworking, law abiding libs, but it will be the "takers", the students, those with nothing to lose. the rest of us will wake up and go to work
so, am I speculating, yes. BUT, I like the odds and will stick to my original statement. it will be libs uprising, just like in europe, just like the RNC. maybe not you or other hardworking, law abiding libs, but it will be the "takers", the students, those with nothing to lose. the rest of us will wake up and go to work
I think the uprising will be newly retired Republicans who feel they've paid into entitlement programs their entire lives and deserve the benefits they feel they own.
[QUOTE=spence;880385]I think the uprising will be newly retired Republicans who feel they've paid into entitlement programs their entire lives and deserve the benefits they feel they own.
That's a key point of the issue though...most people who work pay into SS and Medicare, and the middle class pays a much higher overall % of their income into these programs.
Geez, the violence in those terrorist tea party demonstration tapes
was atrocious. Did you see the disrespect showed to the police
when they were asked to quiet down. Terrorists for sure.
There are a lot of towns sharing services in our area, but so far it's been
garbage collection, and regionalization of schools. We may be forced to
do more regionly due to the future economy.
But there would be a big protest by the opposition of what would be called" the people of home rule."
They will be smeared too.
That's a key point of the issue though...most people who work pay into SS and Medicare, and the middle class pays a much higher overall % of their income into these programs.
-spence
Should be no problem with SS being it's stored in a "locked box".
And at our current rates, what we are doing as a nation is not sustainable.
GenX is now becoming of age where they (we'll) be taking more of the reigns. Can we fix things? How do we fix things? We're supposed to be the generation that breaks the mold on race, allowing for more tolerance, but can we do it? We're supposed to be the generation that fixes education but that doesn't look to be taking root.
Where a lot of Boomers have gotten us to where we are now, can the current awaking generation do a better job? Can many of the faults be hoisted on the boomers? Not that laying blame will fix any problems.
I do weep for my country.
Perhaps as a hypothetical exercise, we come up with a way to fix the USA's ills ?
If the hypothetical fracture comes along - I can likely be reached in TX or North Carolina.
Oh, RIJimmy, I forgot to mention, the libs can't lead the uprising. They have no guns, no military. While they certainly are the most capable for protesting and shouting hell no we won't go, they are by far the least likely to know or have taken any federally recognized oath to the Constitution and made a personal mission in life to defend it.
I would guess as a percentage, people on the left/progressive bend are more likely to have protested the Pledge of Allegiance somewhere along the line.
And at our current rates, what we are doing as a nation is not sustainable.
GenX is now becoming of age where they (we'll) be taking more of the reigns. Can we fix things? How do we fix things? We're supposed to be the generation that breaks the mold on race, allowing for more tolerance, but can we do it? We're supposed to be the generation that fixes education but that doesn't look to be taking root.
Where a lot of Boomers have gotten us to where we are now, can the current awaking generation do a better job? Can many of the faults be hoisted on the boomers? Not that laying blame will fix any problems.
I do weep for my country.
Perhaps as a hypothetical exercise, we come up with a way to fix the USA's ills ?
If the hypothetical fracture comes along - I can likely be reached in TX or North Carolina.
John, the fix was made after the first division/separation/Revolution. It was a superb document which was formed by the lessons of history, and the evolution of law from biblical times through to Roman Law and through trials of Western Civilization to the Magna Charta and the ensuing voluminous case history of the English Court system. It was devised at a point in time when men were, through that revolution, free and far from tyrannical power, a kind of historical moment that rarely exists. It was, in that rare circumstance, necessary to create a system of governance that would allow division but not allow factions to deprive individual liberty. The Framers were in a relatively "pristine" mode of thought concerning how to create and maintain such a system. Though many had different opinions and selfish personal or sectarian motives, they understood that all must be accomodated within the system. There was, in the final creation, no room for a government that allowed factional divisiveness to dominate individual liberty. The Constitution they created allowed for that liberty to flourish, as in no other known society, for a hundred years. Those Founders knew that it was a fragile system that would probably decay--even Madison predicted it would last a century.
The decay, of course, is not an organic decomposition of the parchment, but a corrosion of political and judicial fidelity to the words on that parchment as written and intended. And just as that infidelity has been intentional by progressive leaders and jurists, so can fidelity intentionally be restored. There is no need for a break-up or partitioning of this country. That original Constitution superbly allows for individuals and communities with differing ideas to stay united. It was tried successfully. But the departure from it has led to ideas of separation, and to a fiscal mess fostered by a domineering, unconstitutionally operating Federal Government.
I know that most of us are pessimistic that we can revert to correct, Constitutional government, many even believe it is not good to do so. But the fix is there, in our hands, if, as a people, we understood that. If not, there will be the constant bitching about how to fix it, and wonks will tweak at the present corrupt edges, and drift further from the fix, and, who knows . . . ?
I guess I could say that it seems to me it will be the conservatives who don't have any concern for anyone less fortunate than themselves - the "I got mine and could care less about anyone else" mentality.
That might make a great bumper-sticker, but as usual with liberal talking points, the factual reality tells a different story.
Every study I have ever seen, suggests that conservatives give more time and money to charity, than liberals. This, DESPITE the fact that, as a group, conservatives are less wealthy than liberals (think about the east and west coasts where liberalism thrives).
Look up a study called "Who Really Cares", which is considered the definitive statistical study on the subject.
Put down the Kool Aid, and get some facts before you draw yoru conclusions. I'm not saying that facts and common sense suggest that conservative sare right on every issue...but the notion that liberals have a monopoly on charity is ridiculous, and a flat-out lie.
They may be living on the liberal dole....but they really are just idiots.
Are the KKK Conservatives?.....or are they just idiots too.....bet they vote republican
You're missing the point entirely...While the KKK probably votes Republican, when the burn a cross, they aren't upholding conservative principles. They are not acting on behalf of conservative ideals.
When you look at the riots in Europe, most had their genesis in liberal ideology. They are protesting because they don't want the government to tell them they have to work until they are 62. They are rioting, SPECIFICALLY, to uphold the very core principles of liberal ideology. (namely, "gimme, gimme, gimme!"). Those are liberal riots.
John R, like you, I weep for my country, and I pray for my kid's future. When you have 40% of the country still believing in liberal ideology despite the irrefutable math, and despite what's happening in Europe, I have no idea how to heal the chasm between us. These people just don't respond to factual reality, not unless it fits their ideology. I don't get it...
I'm not really missing it...I'm just looking at it differently.
its not really right to lump Racists, Skinheads, and Religious Zealots as "Conservatives".......as well as Lumping Looters, Thieves and Punks as "Liberal"
Now both of their actions could be loosely tied to each "agenda" if people want to.....see it from both sides. But in reality they are just idiots who use each agenda to Justify their idiotic actions.
I know there were tea party members who were pissed when people labled them racist because a couple of members said some racist comments. Now are they indicative of the whole party....or are they really just a couple of idiots who latched on to some of the party's core beliefs and used that to justify their way of thinking.
There are Conservatives Collecting....and there are liberals working.....and visa versa.
just my opinion....
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
John, the fix was made after the first division/separation/Revolution. It was a superb document which was formed by the lessons of history, and the evolution of law from biblical times through to Roman Law and through trials of Western Civilization to the Magna Charta and the ensuing voluminous case history of the English Court system. It was devised at a point in time when men were, through that revolution, free and far from tyrannical power, a kind of historical moment that rarely exists. It was, in that rare circumstance, necessary to create a system of governance that would allow division but not allow factions to deprive individual liberty. The Framers were in a relatively "pristine" mode of thought concerning how to create and maintain such a system.
Great summation,Detbuch.
These were men of a deep spiritual faith who knew first hand what tyranny was
and had the intelligence to know history and look back and see what
needed to be done to live under liberty.
It all came together as the most perfect govenment document the world has ever known.
To look at it as a "living, breathing" document is bunk.
Living by it's original intent will bring a "perfect union".
What's lacking now, imho, is the Patriotism that brings us together as Americans.
The great leaders were able to bring out the best of us as Americans and made us
feel proud of who we were, even though we are imperfect.
Dad, I hear what you're saying. But in my observation (which is limited, of course), whenever I see this type of feral, anarchist behavior, it's always liberals who are either promoting liberal values, or protesting conservative values. I don't know that I've ever seen what I'd call a "conservative riot".
Does that mean all liberals are anarchists? Not at all. But as passionate as the Tea Party is, there hasn't been a riot.
Great summation,Detbuch.
These were men of a deep spiritual faith who knew first hand what tyranny was
and had the intelligence to know history and look back and see what
needed to be done to live under liberty.
It all came together as the most perfect govenment document the world has ever known.
To look at it as a "living, breathing" document is bunk.
Living by it's original intent will bring a "perfect union".
What's lacking now, imho, is the Patriotism that brings us together as Americans.
The great leaders were able to bring out the best of us as Americans and made us
feel proud of who we were, even though we are imperfect.
In the summation, I left out what might be another important factor and contribution to the writing of the Constitution--the influence of the native Indian tribes on the colonists, especially the Iroquois Confederacy. North America was exceptionally fertile for the existence of individual liberty. Even the people that theoretically emigrated from Asia to the Americas created different cultures in North and Middle/South America, at least as has been studied. The notable Indian civilizations of Middle and South America were what we call great, advanced cultures, but oppressive, autocratic versions of old world empires. North American natives, though far less "advanced," seemed to have fostered more civil societies, especially the Iriquois Nation. There is evidence, though no concrete proof, that contact with Native Americans, especially the treaties and contacts with the Iroquois Confederacy, may have had an influence on the colonists and the Founders in the writing of the Constitution.
So the Founders were not only inoculated against old world tyranny through their experience and study of history, but were living in a climate distinct from what was occuring in Europe with its French Revolution and developing theories of class struggle and the animous of "the people" against their rulers and upper classes and developing socialistic philosophies that eventually produced Marxism. The emphasis here was individual liberty, in Europe it became collective equality. And the divided nation as the subject of this thread is really about the division that occurred with the introduction here of "progressive" ideology and its intrinsic basis of class struggle. This might be the worm in the bud that defeats us and our Constitutional foundation. It is an ideology that basically does not allow for bringing together differing points of view and allowing individuals to live and let live. It is about the constant struggle of collective masses against, at present, their capitalist owners of production. During the height of progressive and academic historiagraphy in this country, the Founders were looked upon as capitalist oppressors who exploited their workers, not as a special group of men creating a great document of liberty. To them, the Constitution was a co-option of the Revolution to restore and maintain power to the capitalists. The true progressives today, especially in academia, still believe this. This is why the Constitution, which is still dear to the hearts of most citizens, cannot be openly dismissed, but we can pretend to honor it by saying that it is "living, breathing" and as such, changing to suit modern times and needs. If you want to see the nightmare of what a progressive Constitution would be, google Rexford G. Tugwell, New States of America Constitution. Tugwell was one of the three important Braintrusts for FDR. He admitted in a later article in CENTER MAGAZINE, March 1968, page 20 that the legislative schemes he helped promote for the New Deal were "torutured interpretations of a document [the Constitution] intended to prevent them."
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