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Old 01-16-2019, 09:17 AM   #1
Pete F.
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Is Trump a dealmaker?

Negotiation Journal a quarterly published by the Program on Negotiation at Harvard Law School will devote it's next issue to the current President.
It will be the first time an entire issue has been devoted to a president.
From what I read they are not impressed.
His win-lose dealmaking style is outmoded by 50 years and as has been demonstrated lately is not very effective.
Attacking the people around you both on your side and the other is not productive.
Not being trustworthy is very counterproductive.
Now some will say he is a Billionaire and therefore must be a good negotiator.
Is he really, how do you know?

“Anybody who in any way tarnishes the reputation of John McCain deserves a whipping, because most of those who would do the wrong thing about John McCain didn’t have the guts to do the right thing when it was their turn.”
Johnny Isakson
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:05 PM   #2
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I don't give a damn if he's the "great dealmaker", what I like is he is a true "Capitalist" and the way that everything he says makes the socialists on here and all over, absolutely lose their minds, automatically rejecting anything he says, even if it means supporting a complete idiot like Ocasio-Cortez and make statements like abolish ICE.
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:30 PM   #3
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Negotiation Journal a quarterly published by the Program on Negotiation at Harvard Law School will devote it's next issue to the current President.
It will be the first time an entire issue has been devoted to a president.
From what I read they are not impressed.
His win-lose dealmaking style is outmoded by 50 years and as has been demonstrated lately is not very effective.
Attacking the people around you both on your side and the other is not productive.
Not being trustworthy is very counterproductive.
Now some will say he is a Billionaire and therefore must be a good negotiator.
Is he really, how do you know?
"From what I read they (Harvard) are not impressed"

Can't be because they hate him...

"must be a good negotiator.
Is he really, how do you know"

Pretty sure that's an opinion, not something that can be proven.

He made a lot of money in real estate in NYC, meaning dealing with politicians, unions, the mob...

Had a very successful book

Had a very successful TV show (for some reason)

defeated the most inevitable presidential candidate, in the history of the country

That doesn't mean he's a good dealmaker. I can't prove he is, Harvard can't prove he isn't. You got all excited because someone at Harvard doesn't like him...
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:31 PM   #4
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I don't give a damn if he's the "great dealmaker", what I like is he is a true "Capitalist" and the way that everything he says makes the socialists on here and all over, absolutely lose their minds, automatically rejecting anything he says, even if it means supporting a complete idiot like Ocasio-Cortez and make statements like abolish ICE.
True, he's also skilled at making his adversaries, willingly go out and humiliate themselves. Sometimes, in this regard, I wonder if he's a hypnotist.
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:41 PM   #5
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I don't give a damn if he's the "great dealmaker", what I like is he is a true "Capitalist" and the way that everything he says makes the socialists on here and all over, absolutely lose their minds, automatically rejecting anything he says, even if it means supporting a complete idiot like Ocasio-Cortez and make statements like abolish ICE.
Here we go with the fear narrative that socialist are taking over America.... a true go to argument when you have nothing else

And fear of an 1 idiot who seems to fill conservatives needs to lash out at her when ever she speaks
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:06 PM   #6
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Here we go with the fear narrative that socialist are taking over America.... a true go to argument when you have nothing else

And fear of an 1 idiot who seems to fill conservatives needs to lash out at her when ever she speaks
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Have a little compassion. Not everyone is as brave as you.
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:45 PM   #7
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He's a con man and always has been. Maybe he should start selling Wall Bonds, with the rate of return that he claims for the wall he could give a great rate of return, like Bernie Madoff.

Here's a couple of descriptions of his business dealings
This one has lots of illustrations
https://www.internationalbusinessgui...siness-career/

This one has lots of verbiage
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-7173666.html

“Anybody who in any way tarnishes the reputation of John McCain deserves a whipping, because most of those who would do the wrong thing about John McCain didn’t have the guts to do the right thing when it was their turn.”
Johnny Isakson
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:00 PM   #8
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Is Donald Trump a good negotiator?

Sean Quinn, lives in The United States of America
Updated Feb 8, 2017
I’ve known a few real estate and construction heavy weights, including someone who worked for him, who operated in NYC back when Trump was actually a real estate investor and developer compared to the last 20 or so years when he’s basically been a brand (his own) marketer. When he actually had to negotiate the finer points of deals they’ve said he wasn’t great and that what he ended up doing was just not paying people and defaulting on those contracts. Those contracts were with vendors and lenders. I know it’s cliche now and it obviously didn’t matter to those who voted for him but from everything I’ve heard from people who dealt with him back then (and I heard some of these stories well before the Presidency was even a twinkle in Trump’s eye) was that he was nothing special. He had inherited equity, good family relationships with both equity and debt investors and his father had a tough yet good reputation in town that Donald was able to ride in the 70’s and 80’s.

After people saw how he dealt with the fallout-and a lot of real estate developers in the 80’s blew up just the same as he did-they just weren’t going to deal with him again. In the cyclical real estate development world, especially pre-1990’s when it wasn’t so institutional and there were many more independent cowboys out there building large scale projects, people failed all the time. However, the ones who were able to bounce back dealt with the fallout better. They tried to repay vendors and lenders and renegotiated in good faith with them. Donald didn’t. His negotiating skills didn’t matter because he wasn’t going to pay them: you can say that you want 100, and I can say sure but it doesn’t matter to me because I’m only ever planning to pay you 50. So do I get to say I’m a good negotiator?

That’s why he hasn’t really invested in NYC real estate at scale since then. No one wanted to do a deal with him. The projects that have his name on them are primarily deals that he’s lent his name to, not his money, in a marketing deal where he receives a cut of the profit and gets ongoing property management and development fees in exchange for putting his name on the project. Cunning marketing and a great rebound because no one was really willing to deal with him as a developer again? Yes. And maybe he’s good at negotiating those deals but when you’re the developer of a project that’s in the hundreds of millions to billions, the marketing, branding and property management folks are small parts of much larger moving pieces so I’d guess that they didn’t really care that The Donald got an extra few bps here or there. There’s no doubt that he built his brand up because that’s what he’s good at: selling a concept, no matter how ugly it is. Did you ever stay in one of his old casinos or hotels? Gaudy as all hell. Gold-colored crap everywhere with tacky marble. But he was driving his brand of 80’s style wealth.

I suppose he’s been able to gain foreign investors since he became a TV star because New York wasn’t willing to. He sold them on the glitz and glamour of the Trump brand. I don’t know about that one for sure, but I hadn’t heard of anyone going into a deal with him who was from NYC.

I spent a couple of decades in private equity. My role was to source, structure, negotiate and close deals, most of them very complex with multiple negotiations occurring simultaneously. I attended a few classes and read a wide variety of negotiating books and a fair amount were helpful but at the base I found that empathy was the most important quality for someone who was negotiating. Not a wishy-washy empathy where I wanted someone to cry on my shoulder, but simply being able to understand where the other person was coming from and being able to put myself in their shoes. I was a fairly tough negotiator, but I took a long outlook on my career. I never wanted to sucker someone or beat the crap out of them when they were down because if I got a reputation as someone who was willing to #^&#^&#^&#^& someone over I wasn’t going to be able to be in my business for very long. Those are the best negotiators in my opinion: put yourself in the other person’s shoes, think about how you can both walk away from the situation at least feeling somewhat content and get the best terms for your side while doing so. Those are the people that I emulated early on in my career and who themselves built long careers with reputations as solid individuals with integrity. But it takes empathy. I highly doubt Donald Trump has that character trait.

“Anybody who in any way tarnishes the reputation of John McCain deserves a whipping, because most of those who would do the wrong thing about John McCain didn’t have the guts to do the right thing when it was their turn.”
Johnny Isakson
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:26 PM   #9
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Good lord, how about the simple fact that his practices were so bad no US banks would’nt loan him money? This isn’t rocket science,
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Last edited by spence; 01-16-2019 at 07:11 PM..
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:45 PM   #10
Jim in CT
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i find that when you are evaluating someone, it makes the
most sense to look at everything, good and bad. when you choose to ignore the good, and dwell on the bad, thatbpaints a rather one sided picture. if your goal
at the outset was predetermined, that you had every intention of bashing someone unfairly, this
is a productive way to accomplish that. If accuracy matters, you need to take a different approach.
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:53 PM   #11
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i find that when you are evaluating someone, it makes the
most sense to look at everything, good and bad. when you choose to ignore the good, and dwell on the bad, thatbpaints a rather one sided picture. if your goal
at the outset was predetermined, that you had every intention of bashing someone unfairly, this
is a productive way to accomplish that. If accuracy matters, you need to take a different approach.
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Trump has always had a lot of BS and not much good.
He always claims that things he does are better and everyone else is horrible.
He is the weakest man to ever be president.
Time will show the effects of his presidency, such as it is.

“Anybody who in any way tarnishes the reputation of John McCain deserves a whipping, because most of those who would do the wrong thing about John McCain didn’t have the guts to do the right thing when it was their turn.”
Johnny Isakson
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:54 PM   #12
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Good lord, how about the simple fact that his practices were so bad no US banks would loan him money? This isn’t rocket science,
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Oh contrare, the Russians do and I have no doubt, If and when this is over and the NYAG hasn’t got him; there will be a Trump tower going up in Moscow.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:11 PM   #13
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Oh contrare, the Russians do and I have no doubt, If and when this is over and the NYAG hasn’t got him; there will be a Trump tower going up in Moscow.
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Edited my post to fix the mistake.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:05 PM   #14
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Good lord, how about the simple fact that his practices were so bad no US banks would’nt loan him money? This isn’t rocket science,
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Jeff, did you really edit this post already?

Hope all is well.
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PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:07 PM   #15
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So glad you are not in the rocket business. And I thought the Spencer men were always right...
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:35 AM   #16
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Jeff, did you really edit this post already?

Hope all is well.
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That time when you have nothing to say so you resort to harp on someone fixing a typo. This.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:45 AM   #17
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Russian banks loan him money when most US sources dry up. Trump publically stated in front of the world ahead of any attempt to walk it back, he believed Russia didn’t interfere with the 2016 election. Trump has insisted on meeting with Putin privately when they meet and even seized the interpreters notes. Recent votes to continue sanctions failed with Trumps circle of arse kissing senators continuing their job of protecting his back. Endictments and evidence mounting that all things point to the kremlin. Moves to undermine our allies and even the recent sudden and unexpected announcement to withdraw from Siria, has Putin laughing his Russian arse off, like having his birthday last all year long.

But just remember our commander and chief has stated no collusion, well I think I remember him saying it once or twice, so there is nothing there folks just move on.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:46 AM   #18
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That was fixed? Get some rest Tiger.
You know what you meant.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:08 AM   #19
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True, he's also skilled at making his adversaries, willingly go out and humiliate themselves. Sometimes, in this regard, I wonder if he's a hypnotist.
I think you were here during the Obama administration when the Repub. anger became so evident they lost their minds.

Peter King calling his tan suit unpresidential and that he didn't care about national security threats.

"Sarah Palin said Obama liked to pal around with terrorists. Glenn Beck opined early on that Obama hated white people, or white culture. Others in the conservative camp suggested Obama was anti-American because he was a member of Jeremiah Wright’s church. The birthers, still a goodly portion of the conservative constituency, believed that Obama was not even a U.S. citizen, but rather, a Manchurian Candidate (yet we know have a president who meets with the Russian president and won't let any other American know what was discussed) who intended on bringing America down from the inside out. Many in Tea and conservative land still doubt that Obama is a Christian....insisting that Obama’s Muslim and African loyalties trump any loyalties he might still have for the U.S.

Obama wanted Gitmo terrorists brought to the Homeland, wanted four Americans killed in Benghazi so badly that he ordered a “stand down”, purposely planned for government healthcare “death panels”, and is now staging the partial genocide of U.S. citizens by intentionally allowing Ebola to spread inside our country."

How many times where pictures of Obama's mom jeans posted here?
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:11 AM   #20
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How can anyone be considered a good deal maker when he shows his hand constantly? Before entering a shutdown where the goal is to get people to believe it is the other side's fault, he took total blame for it. Amatuer move.

He should have read his book that he didn't write.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:32 AM   #21
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I think you were here during the Obama administration when the Repub. anger became so evident they lost their minds.

Peter King calling his tan suit unpresidential and that he didn't care about national security threats.

"Sarah Palin said Obama liked to pal around with terrorists. Glenn Beck opined early on that Obama hated white people, or white culture. Others in the conservative camp suggested Obama was anti-American because he was a member of Jeremiah Wright’s church. The birthers, still a goodly portion of the conservative constituency, believed that Obama was not even a U.S. citizen, but rather, a Manchurian Candidate (yet we know have a president who meets with the Russian president and won't let any other American know what was discussed) who intended on bringing America down from the inside out. Many in Tea and conservative land still doubt that Obama is a Christian....insisting that Obama’s Muslim and African loyalties trump any loyalties he might still have for the U.S.

Obama wanted Gitmo terrorists brought to the Homeland, wanted four Americans killed in Benghazi so badly that he ordered a “stand down”, purposely planned for government healthcare “death panels”, and is now staging the partial genocide of U.S. citizens by intentionally allowing Ebola to spread inside our country."

How many times where pictures of Obama's mom jeans posted here?
"I think you were here during the Obama administration when the Repub. anger became so evident they lost their minds."

A small number of people like Sean Hannity lost their minds. I watched the 8PM Foxnews show occasionally during the Obama years, it was BY FAR the most popular cable news show at the time, and the host regularly praised Obama.

That was nothing compared to this. Nothing. Look at the threads started here. Look at the "not my president" marches. Look at ANTIFA.

I don't know how to quantify it Paul, I giess you could look and see which networks gave Obama and Trump what percentage of favorable and unfavorable coverage. But I'd bet my 401k in exchange for $1 from you, that Foxnews gave way more favorable coverage to Obama, than CNN or MSNBC give to Trump. Now some of that is deserved because of his style no question. But not all of it is deserved.

Trump bashes MS-13, and there's the speaker of the house defending them.

"Glenn Beck opined early on that Obama hated white people"

I'm certain Beck was right. No one sits in Rev Wright's church and likes what he is hearing, unless he dislikes white people.

Posting individual examples of people bashing Obama doesn't prove your point. It doesn't prove that it isn't far more widespread now.

Just my opinion, I have no way to prove it, you have no way to disprove.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:38 AM   #22
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How can anyone be considered a good deal maker when he shows his hand constantly? Before entering a shutdown where the goal is to get people to believe it is the other side's fault, he took total blame for it. Amatuer move.

He should have read his book that he didn't write.
Again, your side is really getting in the habit of claiming a generalization is true, because you can point to one specific example.

In your other thread, you tried to prove that Obama hatred was as bad as Trump hatred, by listing a few specific examples of Obama hatred. It doesn't work that way. Showing that there was more than zero Obama hatred, doesn't mean that Trump hatred isn't way worse.

Same here. Listing examples of his bad deals, doesn't make him a bad dealmaker. You list all of his deals, compare the good and the bad, and see if the good outweighs the bad, or vice versa.

You know this. But you aren't capable of that degree of fairness because you hate the man.

I concede that I despised Obama, I hated his personality, his style, his policy, almost everything about him. But he did some great things with the economy, and he did some great things in the war on terror.

You need to honestly evaluate the good and the bad Paul. If you ignore the good and fixate on the bad, I admit, he looks pretty damn bad.

How many stories do you think CNN and MSNBC have done, interviewing people who were unemployed but now have good jobs? Or families like mine who received a little bump in take-home pay thanks to the tax cuts?
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:13 AM   #23
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Trump may be the unwitting idiot the Kremlin was and continues to use, but Rudy is the idiots idiot, or he is getting ahead of another indictment about to come out of the mueller investigation. This administration has set a new record for walking statements back that will probably never be surpassed again. Now Rudy is saying he never said there was no collusion between anyone in the campaign, only that the president never had knowledge of it. Must be something big coming if Rudy is throwing the bosses kids under the bus.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:19 AM   #24
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How many stories do you think CNN and MSNBC have done, interviewing people who were unemployed but now have good jobs? Or families like mine who received a little bump in take-home pay thanks to the tax cuts?
Trump started calling the media fake very early in his campaign and he's been "working the referee" ever since.
He's good at it, but referees get tough on teams that do that.
If you want a fair shake, you need to play ball within the rules.
Otherwise they will foul you out, call you for holding, pass interference or you'll throw more balls and less strikes.
It's not the way the game should be played, but the guy working the ref is typically a crybaby at heart anyways.

“Anybody who in any way tarnishes the reputation of John McCain deserves a whipping, because most of those who would do the wrong thing about John McCain didn’t have the guts to do the right thing when it was their turn.”
Johnny Isakson
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:26 AM   #25
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Again, your side is really getting in the habit of claiming a generalization is true, because you can point to one specific example.

In your other thread, you tried to prove that Obama hatred was as bad as Trump hatred, by listing a few specific examples of Obama hatred. It doesn't work that way. Showing that there was more than zero Obama hatred, doesn't mean that Trump hatred isn't way worse.something like 40% of Repubs. believed (and I'm sure many still do) that Obama was a Muslim and not born here with zero proof. If that doesn't demonstrate hatred, what does?

Same here. Listing examples of his bad deals, doesn't make him a bad dealmaker. You list all of his deals, compare the good and the bad, and see if the good outweighs the bad, or vice versa.It has been shown that he could have made more $ by selling everything his father left/gave him and putting it an index fund and he would be worth more than he his worth now.

You know this. But you aren't capable of that degree of fairness because you hate the man.I dislike him bc he is a vile, petty crass, vindicative, etc. Prob. the same reasons I would hate a person down the street if they act like him.

I concede that I despised Obama, I hated his personality, his style, his policy, almost everything about him. But he did some great things with the economy, and he did some great things in the war on terror.

You need to honestly evaluate the good and the bad Paul. If you ignore the good and fixate on the bad, I admit, he looks pretty damn bad.

How many stories do you think CNN and MSNBC have done, interviewing people who were unemployed but now have good jobs? Or families like mine who received a little bump in take-home pay thanks to the tax cuts?
But the tax cuts are never going to pay for themselves like we were promised. Everyone not in the admin. said that and that is turning out to be the case. I have told you before, not everyone here makes what you make so the tax cuts where inconsequential to many people. Plus until I actually do my taxes I don't know if it benefits me or not bc of my propery taxes deduction is now limited.
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:17 AM   #26
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But the tax cuts are never going to pay for themselves like we were promised. Everyone not in the admin. said that and that is turning out to be the case. I have told you before, not everyone here makes what you make so the tax cuts where inconsequential to many people. Plus until I actually do my taxes I don't know if it benefits me or not bc of my propery taxes deduction is now limited.
"something like 40% of Repubs. believed (and I'm sure many still do) that Obama was a Muslim "

Lots of stupid people out there on my side. But you aren't commenting at all on Trump derangement, so I can't tell which president you feel was treated worse. You're only presenting one side, the side that helps your cause.

"It has been shown that he could have made more $ by selling everything his father left/gave him and putting it an index fund and he would be worth more than he his worth now"

As far as I can tell, he turned money onto more money, in a tough business. I also heard he didn't do better than an index fund. I haven't seen the math.

"I dislike him bc he is a vile, petty crass, vindicative, etc"

me too. I agree with you 100%. But unlike most people who dislike him, I can set aside my disdain when evaluating whether or not his policies help.

"But the tax cuts are never going to pay for themselves like we were promised"

They rarely do, anyone who says different is a liar. Most government programs run up debt. Obama added more dollars to the debt, I think, than everyone before him (much of that was the wars he inherited, so not on him). But the stimulus cost $750B and won't pay for itself, and I don't know anyone who benefitted from it. I know a lot of people benefitting from the tax cut. That's the difference, and it's a big difference in my mind.
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Old 01-24-2019, 08:01 AM   #27
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Another example of Trumps prowess in negotiating is the state of the union speech. The story is that he was shocked that Pelosi actually went ahead and disinvited him from giving the speech. He has in inflated opinion of himself and while he generally has a power advantage over the person he is “negotiating” against, he did not recognize Pelosi had the power advantage in this situation.
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Old 01-24-2019, 08:15 AM   #28
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Vote every last one of them out. This is beyond rediculous. A bunch of rich entitled adult children fighting over power. None of them are working for the interest of our countries best interest. It’s party first. So sad.
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Old 01-24-2019, 08:39 AM   #29
Got Stripers
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Love the fact four Heads of DHS, including Kelly, sent Trump a letter requesting he end the shutdown. The aviation industry sent a letter with a dire warning that the risks to the public are growing and they are predicting if this goes on the entire system is at risk to down. There are economists predicting zero first quarter growth if this doesn’t end, but Lara Trump and a couple on this board feel this “little” bite of pain is worth it.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:29 AM   #30
wdmso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers View Post
Love the fact four Heads of DHS, including Kelly, sent Trump a letter requesting he end the shutdown. The aviation industry sent a letter with a dire warning that the risks to the public are growing and they are predicting if this goes on the entire system is at risk to down. There are economists predicting zero first quarter growth if this doesn’t end, but Lara Trump and a couple on this board feel this “little” bite of pain is worth it.
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Pain is easy to handle when it's not you in pain and those here commented it's only 1 pay check

They Wouldn't work an hour never mind 40hrs if they weren't getting paid at the end of the week

And some are naive to think banks and lenders are going to play nice once they do get paid , computers don't care

It's sad Americans willing to see other Americans suffer ... because Trump lost the house .... such an honorable reason seeing he couldn't get his wall 2 years earlier

IF IT WAS THEIR SS CHECK WHAT A DIFFERENT TUNE THEY WOULD SING
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