You Want the truth you can't handle the truth.

[Duke41]

I read the foreclosure thread. As a front line real estate agent who sold 37 short sales and bank owned homes last year, please allow me to share because this %$%$%$%$ is going to blow your mind.

59 X street Norton. Homeowner is disabled and wheelchair bound has a total disability check of $917 per month. Wells Fargo gives him $200,000 mortgage in 2002. The payments are $1,400 per month. After he wipes out his savings and money from a law suit, a few years later, they give him a home equity loan of $50,000 to pay his mortgage with. He made that last a long time. Now he is out of equity and money and time. The bank is ready to foreclose and he has nowhere and I mean nowhere to go. Out of the house and into his car. What a great country. Was he wrong ..yes should this %$%$%$%$ happen, hell no. BTW he is a white male vet.

How about this one. Lady makes $19,000/year factory work and $11,000 year nursing home part time. She owes $280,000 on her $200,000 house. Her note is $2,600 / month. She has her brother. mother and friend move in so she can save the house she had for 14 years after using it as an ATM. Out of time and out of dough. Ironically she can't fit all the crap she brought with the refi money into her 2 bedroom apartment so it sits in the garage and in the basement as a mute testimony to her stupidity.

These more much more. If you give a %$%$%$%$ let me know and I will keep going.

America is chock full of dumb asses that must be keep from hurting themselves, that's why we have the federal government to protect us from ourselves. This self policing bull%$%$%$%$ is just that bull%$%$%$%$.

One more this is good for a few laughs. A American woman from Puerto Rico marries an immigrant from El Salvador. He gets a job as a maintenance man at a local college, she works full time at a mail house, running a label machine. They buy a 2 family and go on to have 3 kids. 15, 6,and 4. He develops a drinking problem and gets a few DUI's over the years. Last summer he is %$%$%$%$faced gets pulled over after he hits a parked car, then punches the cop in the face. The cop kicks his ass ( btw I am ok with that). Off to jail he goes 7 months in county. A wake up call right. oh-oh guess who forgot to get his citizenship....only has a green card... He goes before the judge after the prison term is up and bingo after 19 years in the US an American wife , a good job, 3 kids a home. Sorry drunky does not matter. The judge orders him deported to El Salvador.. never to return. He is on the ultimate Sorry your not on the list, list.The Patriot Act in action..(yessssssss) So he lives at a church in El Salvador, his whole family lives in the USA mom ,dad, brother and sisters. Can't get a job in El Salvidor unemployment is 35%.. Wife is losing house to bank as she only makes $1300 a month.

The kicker is, I hope your are sitting down. She is getting food stamps now and will be moving into free housing paid for by our tax dollars. Yes the American way. I am so glad the government is around to protect us.

I hope you enjoyed reading these true tales from the street as I did writing and living them. I got into real estate so I could help people achieve there dreams not bury them. We %$%$%$%$ed up so lets fix it.

Goodnight..(Paul Harvey).

[Duke41]

One more thing.. before I drink myself to sleep. The guy that is buying the above mentioned 2 family is using some of the $400,000 life insurance policy his son took out before he went to fight for us in Iraq and was KIA'd. Your Welcome America. I guess every cloud has a silver lining.

[BigFish]

Let them all live in their cars and let those banks roll over, dry to dust and blow away in the wind....same with the automakers! Stupid is as stupid does!

[Backbeach Jake]

Those folks should NEVER had been given those loans in the first place. IMHO the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the loan writers. All they had to say is "no,sorry". You can't expect the average dumbass to say no to himself, someone has to do it for him.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Duke41

The kicker is, I hope your are sitting down. She is getting food stamps now and will be moving into free housing paid for by our tax dollars. Yes the American way. I am so glad the government is around to protect us.

So you'd rather her three kids go hungry and homeless?

I read a story in the WSJ last year about a family in California who had a household income of around 90K, and was given a 580,000 interest only ARM. The monthly payment (of just interest mind your) was around $3500. They limped along until the rate adjusted and the market sank. Then they were unable to make payments on a house that was really under water.

Is there an element of personal responsibility here? Absolutely, but no responsbile lender would have ever given them that loan. Even the best intentioned people can make mistakes, and the Government should be there to help ensure industry doesn't take advantage. Am I assuming money corrupts? Yes, it does...

-spence

[Adam_777]

A guy I work with fits the story to a T.Can't pay his bills.Late or misses payments.Electric and gas have been shut off before.He can't save a dime because he owes a dollar to everyone he knows.He grabbed a huge home loan a few years back and obviously had no clue what he was getting into.Shame on him for taking the crooked loan and shame on the bank for giving it to him and draining the life out of him.Nobody wins in the end.The poor kids are the ones who suffer in the long run for the big mistake.

[Duke41]

Spence I would think that you of all people could spot sarcasm.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Duke41

Spence I would think that you of all people could spot sarcasm.

Sarcasm is for me, not you...

-spence

[striperman36]

Greed rules this country.
Is it the responsibility of us to make sure others don't walk in front of the freight train? At what point does society vs individual right and wrong end?

It's a slippery slope for sure.

[Duke41]

Originally Posted by spence

Sarcasm is for me, not you...

-spence

really

[Joe]

Aughh...political forum pollution....
I'm trying to stay out of there - help a brother out.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Duke41

really

Yes, now that's sarcasm. I learned from the master

-spence

[detbuch]

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. And then along comes government to interweave even more. Being the culprit which de-regulated its original regulation that supposedly prevented the current tangled web, it now sees an opportunity to take advantage of the personal tragedies it helped to create by spending trillions on unrelated "problems." Oh what a tangled web . . .

[gf2020]

Let them all lose their homes and let the children suffer for their parents' mistakes too. This may be a national crisis but is not my crisis. My real estate problems happened a few years ago and my wife and I did not require any intervention from the government.

These people all knew what they were getting themselves in to. If you can show me a situation where someone's loan documents were fradulently altered, like in some of the cases in California, then perhaps their should be some accomodation, but people do not need to be protected from their own greed.

Here's my story...

I custom built a house in Newbury, Massachusetts in 1999 and my family moved in April 2000. By 2004, however, my wife wanted to move back closer to her job and her parents in Lynn so we started house shopping. The housing market in our area was hot and we never anticipated any problem selling our house for top dollar.

In Spring 2005 we found a house that we liked and put it under agreement. The sellers were looking to close in late August because they were waiting for a new unit in a local retirement community.

We still anticipated no issues, one of our neighbors in our upscale 55-house development had sold their house in April after about 2 months on the market. That seemed OK so we took our time and put the house on the market in July 2005.

We arranged bridge financing with our local bank and closed on the new house at the end of August 2005. My sons started school in the new town and we all commuted from our old house, about 20 miles north. By December we were starting to get a little nervous and we had now made our first 3 months of 2 mortgage payments. After doing some minor work to the new house (actually a 50+ year old house) we moved in on 12/31/05.

We let our listing expire at the end of '05 and took our house off the market for 10 weeks. We repainted some rooms after moving out and generally made the house like new. The house went back on the market with a different realtor in mid-February 2006. We had a buyer lined up by May, she actually rented the house for 3 months that summer but eventually had to back out of the sale after she could not sell her house in suburban Atlanta. So the house went back on the market and we continued to pay 2 mortgages.

In late September '06 I was laid off from my job of 9 years. I received a generous severance package and the job market was still pretty good so it was not a big worry. After 11 weeks off spent fishing and working around my 2 houses, I went back to work in early December. We had accepted an offer on the house in November and eventually closed on the sale just before Christmas 2006.

My wife and I are furious at any talk of bailouts for homeowners. We carried 2 mortgages for 15 months and spent over $60,000 in interest. We eventually sold our house for $80,000 less than its assessed value and $102,000 below our initial listing price.

Did we make a mistake? Absolutely! We should not have waited on putting our house on the market at the end of 2004 or early 2005. In our neighborhood in Newbury, the housing boom came to an abrupt halt in April 2005. But we did not ask for a government bailout, nor did we expect anything. We wiped out our savings and borrowed money from my in-laws to make it thru this period.

Now, a couple of years later, we have paid back the in-laws but we are still recovering from the lost equity and spent savings.

The lack of personal accountability that our elected officials seem to be promoting is dumbfounding to me. When did we all become "entitled"? Republican or Democrat, it does not matter, common sense seems to have taken a leave of absence everywhere.

Yes, my wife and I were not in the same situation as a tomato canning worker in Bakersfield, California who was the victim of predatory lenders and realtors. Our combined income is high and we knew what we were doing, we just had bad luck.

Anyone who knows me would say I am a nice guy and this is definitely a case where the nice guys are going to finish last.

- Gordon

[Duke41]

My beef is the mortgage fraud that went on with these no income verification loans. Also the then very popular and now deadly 20/80 loans. I know the banks were greedy and people were stupid, however if banking regulations were not thrown out the window we would not be in this mess. Could we really assume that these greedy bastards would self regulate.

[spence]

Originally Posted by gf2020

Yes, my wife and I were not in the same situation as a tomato canning worker in Bakersfield, California who was the victim of predatory lenders and realtors.

Thanks for pointing this out so I didn't have to

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Im not sure I get the point of this thread.
The government should be protecting us all from ourselves?

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Im not sure I get the point of this thread.
The government should be protecting us all from ourselves?

Last time I check it wasn't a free for all. So I guess we shouldn't have any laws protecting from fraud either?

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Last time I check it wasn't a free for all. So I guess we shouldn't have any laws protecting from fraud either?

-spence

so lets get to the real issue and not beat around the bush. Some people are not smart enough to sign contracts or make life impacting decisions on their own. So lets institute a law that in order to buy any purchase over 20k, you need to pass an exam. Same goes for having a child, you have to pass a test.
Wouldnt that get to the root of the problem?

[Travis]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Same goes for having a child, you have to pass a test.

Haha, I think that right there would solve 90% of this countries problems...

[fishbones]

Unfortunately, personal responsibility and accountibility has gone the way of the buffalo head nickle. It would be a whole other thread to discuss what's happened to cause this, but if people (including businesses, politicians, religious leaders, etc...) just thought about their actions, things would be a lot different. Not enough people think about how their actions affect themselves or others. They also realize that if they screw up, there'll be someone there to bail them out or defend what they've done.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Unfortunately, personal responsibility and accountibility has gone the way of the buffalo head nickle. It would be a whole other thread to discuss what's happened to cause this, but if people (including businesses, politicians, religious leaders, etc...) just thought about their actions, things would be a lot different. Not enough people think about how their actions affect themselves or others. They also realize that if they screw up, there'll be someone there to bail them out or defend what they've done.

Or if they decide to sit on their ass and not work, the current administration will take care of them.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

so lets get to the real issue and not beat around the bush. Some people are not smart enough to sign contracts or make life impacting decisions on their own. So lets institute a law that in order to buy any purchase over 20k, you need to pass an exam. Same goes for having a child, you have to pass a test.
Wouldnt that get to the root of the problem?

Oh lord, why do you go on these little idiological tantrums?

Just because something is bad (i.e. complete government control of your life) doesn't mean the opposite is good (i.e. complete lack of government control of your life).

Guess what? Companies are often corrupt, people are often stupid. If a little oversight by a 3rd party can help keep the system functioning we're probably all going to be better off for it.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by Travis

Or if they decide to sit on their ass and not work, the current administration will take care of them.

He, hehe he, hehe...good one Beavis.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Oh lord, why do you go on these little idiological tantrums?

Just because something is bad (i.e. complete government control of your life) doesn't mean the opposite is good (i.e. complete lack of government control of your life).

Guess what? Companies are often corrupt, people are often stupid. If a little oversight by a 3rd party can help keep the system functioning we're probably all going to be better off for it.

-spence

you need to look at the extremes.
hmm, so where do you draw the line? What if I re-mortgage my house, max my credit cards so that I can invest in some new venture? Sholdnt I be allowed to take that risk?I need a 3rd party to approve that? What about stock purchases? Can I buy 200K in mutual funds? Does a 3rd party need to review that?
very slippery slope spence.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by spence

He, hehe he, hehe...good one Beavis.

-spence

I know I might not be as smart as you...but am I wrong?

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

you need to look at the extremes.
hmm, so where do you draw the line? What if I re-mortgage my house, max my credit cards so that I can invest in some new venture? Sholdnt I be allowed to take that risk?I need a 3rd party to approve that? What about stock purchases? Can I buy 200K in mutual funds? Does a 3rd party need to review that?
very slippery slope spence.

Abortion and gun control are also slippery slope issues and we have legislation today that most people seem to be able to live with.

There's a big difference between a personal decision to enter or not enter a contract, and regulation to ensure the person issuing that contract is engaged in fair play.

You're mixing issues.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by Travis

I know I might not be as smart as you...but am I wrong?

Yes, assuming we're not talking about the part about me being smarter

Sorry.

Do people abuse welfare? Absolutely.

Does Obama being more Liberal mean people assume they get to work less? That sounds like a personal decision that's impossible to reconcile without specific data. Could it happen? I suppose so...

Here's the irony.

How much taxpayer money do you think goes towards genuine welfare abuse, compared to the amount of Federal money that sucked by Corporations through corporate welfare and loopholes?

In the end, are they any better than the iconic welfare queen?

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Abortion and gun control are also slippery slope issues and we have legislation today that most people seem to be able to live with.

There's a big difference between a personal decision to enter or not enter a contract, and regulation to ensure the person issuing that contract is engaged in fair play.

You're mixing issues.

-spence

fair play? ever watch a commerical? how many products deliver as promised? Ever had a Big Mac that looks ANYTHING like the picture?
My point - Im fine with regulation for fair play. However, you cant have a safety net on everything. Since when did buying a home become easy or safe? Its always been a risk. I really have no sympathy for the scenarios presented in the initial thread. You take a risk, you win or fail. I'll give you 10% of the people that are in mortgage trouble were just plain stupid or manipulated by lenders. The other 90% wanted more and were willing to bank on the market continuing to increase. They gambled, they lost. Such is business.

[EarnedStripes44]

Lets just play football with no referees.