this is brilliant

[scottw]

Attorney General Eric Holder is a staunch opponent of laws requiring voters to show photo ID at the polls to improve ballot security. He calls them “unnecessary” and has blocked their implementation in Texas and South Carolina, citing the fear they would discriminate against minorities.

I wonder what Holder will think when he learns just how easy it was for someone to be offered his ballot just by mentioning his name in a Washington, D.C., polling place in Tuesday’s primaries.

In Washington, it was child’s play for O’Keefe to beat the system. O’Keefe’s assistant used a hidden camera to document his encounter with the election worker at Holder’s polling place:

Man: “Do you have an Eric Holder, 50th Street?

Poll worker: “Let me see here.”

Man: Xxxx 50th Street.

Poll Worker: Let’s see, Holder, Hol-t-e-r, or Hold-d-e-r?

Man: H-o-l-d-e-r.

Poll Worker: D-e-r. Okay.

Man: That’s the name.

Poll Worker: I do. Xxxx 50th Street NW. Okay. [Puts check next to name, indicating someone has shown up to vote.] Will you sign there . . .

Man: I actually forgot my ID.

Poll Worker: You don’t need it; it’s all right.

Man: I left it in the car.

Poll Worker: As long as you’re in here, and you’re on our list and that’s who you say you are, we’re okay.

Man: I would feel more comfortable if I go get my ID, is it all right if I go get it?

Poll Worker: Sure, go ahead.

Man: I’ll be back faster than you can say furious!

Poll Worker: We’re not going anywhere.

Note that O’Keefe’s assistant never identified himself as Eric Holder, so he was not illegally impersonating him.

....a new study by the Pew Research Center found at least 1.8 million dead people are still registered to vote. They aren’t likely to complain if someone votes in their place.

Why We Need Voter-ID Laws Now - John Fund - National Review Online

[justplugit]

Except for the politicians not wanting it to milk it for votes, I could never understand the big deal in registering to vote and being able to prove your idenity.

You do it once, proves you are a citizen over the age of 18 and not a felon. Your official signature is sighned in the poll books and each time you go to vote you sighn your name under the original signature proving who you are and eligble.If your eligble there should be no problem in having
a photo ID either.

What's the big deal, no violation of rights here, just showing you are eligible.

[Jim in CT]

I'm with justplugit. What i sthe harm in verifying someone's identity at the voting booth? Isn't ensuring identity, for the purposes of election integrity, a good thing? Why are liberals opposed to this? Why would it discriminate against minorities? Is it better for those minorities if someone uses their identity to vote illegitimately?

I see no earthly reason to oppose this, but liberals, as a group, vehemently oppose it.

[PaulS]

So, O'Keefe lied and he is praised?

You conservatives have no morals.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So, O'Keefe lied and he is praised?

You conservatives have no morals.

Paul, there you go again, saying mean, nasty things. When I do it, you tell me I'm mean and nasty. When you do it, it's OK, I guess?

I see nothing immoral about exposing the issue of voter fraud. If the person actually voted as Eric Holder, that would be immoral.

When someone called Gov Scott Walker (in Wisconsin) and pretended to be one of the Koch brothers, did you call that out as immoral? Because most liberals jumped to the conclusion that the Koch brothers have Walker in their back pocket...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Paul, there you go again, saying mean, nasty things. When I do it, you tell me I'm mean and nasty. When you do it, it's OK, I guess?I figure what is good for the goose is good for the gander - the decorum in this forum has good way down over the last year or so. I figure since your constantly railing against "liberals", that I'll start calling sleazy sleazy

I see nothing immoral about exposing the issue of voter fraud. If the person actually voted as Eric Holder, that would be immoral. If the sleazy conservative didn't vote, how is it voter fraud. Your missing the point - O'Keefe is lying to someone - he is conservative and sleazy. Therefore, using the logic you use daily, and no conservatives have called him out, therefore they are all sleazy.

When someone called Gov Scott Walker (in Wisconsin) and pretended to be one of the Koch brothers, did you call that out as immoral? Because most liberals jumped to the conclusion that the Koch brothers have Walker in their back pocket...

As w/me, the person who did it saw how sleazy cons. are and figured he would do the same.

Last week I saw that some sleazy conserv. tried the same thing (even setting up a website!) and got caught. I'm sure others have been contacting him and tell him where he went wrong.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by PaulS

You conservatives have no morals.

Maybe I missed something,please show me where I have posted something that was imoral.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Maybe I missed something,please show me where I have posted something that was imoral.

something about "goose decorum"...which I think is similar to "pink slime" ....sleazy sleazy

the guy didn't lie about anything, and he didn't try to cast a vote....just demonstrated how easy it is to vote for a dead guy..or apparently for a live guy too... a live guy (Holder)who doesn't see a problem with people voting for dead guys..

and it wasn't O'Keefe..it was his assistant

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Maybe I missed something,please show me where I have posted something that was imoral.

that your so willing to lie and that it comes so easy.

Originally Posted by scottw

:

the guy didn't lie about anything, He implied that he was Holder - you can tell he was implying he was Holder, right?and he didn't try to cast a vote....just demonstrated how easy it is to vote for a dead guy..How did he demonstrate that if he didn't actually vote?

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by PaulS

that your so willing to lie and that it comes so easy.

Please show me a post where I have lied.

You seem to be very judgemental and self righteous.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Please show me a post where I have lied.

O'Keefe (or his assistant) lied by implying he was Holder. O'Keefe is a conservative. There are either cons. or liberals (no in between) here. Your a conserv., therefore your a liar. That is how this forum now operates.

You seem to be very judgemental medo you read any other posts in this forum? I've been pointing out how judgemental this forum has become for about a year now.and self righteous.

Nope, but that is what this forum has turned into.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Lets take our foot off the gas pedal and relax.

and ease up on the name calling......just because people do it doesn't mean its right

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Lets take our foot off the gas pedal and relax.

and ease up on the name calling......just because people do it doesn't mean its right

Agree, and let's refrain from painting with broad brushes.
The only thing I posted on this thread was my opinion on voting registration.
Neither imoral or a lie.

[Jim in CT]

Can we get back to the point of the original post? Why do Obama and most liberals oppose identity verification? Whose civil rights get violated, and how do they get violated, if we ask folks to prove their identity at the voting booth?

I just don't see a valid argument against this, but liberals tend to paint it as discriminatory...

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I just don't see a valid argument against this, but liberals tend to paint it as discriminatory...

Because once you bring discrimmination into the argument, it tends to quiet the opposition. No one wants to be labeled as discriminatory.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Because once you bring discrimmination into the argument, it tends to quiet the opposition. No one wants to be labeled as discriminatory.

Good point FB.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Can we get back to the point of the original post? Why do Obama and most liberals oppose identity verification? Whose civil rights get violated, and how do they get violated, if we ask folks to prove their identity at the voting booth?

I just don't see a valid argument against this, but liberals tend to paint it as discriminatory...

Frankly, a free ID card (if you don't have a license/passport/military ID, etc.) wouldn't bother me all.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Frankly, a free ID card (if you don't have a license/passport/military ID, etc.) wouldn't bother me all.

Don't people need ID to get welfare or other social services? I would think an ID wouldn't be too difficult to get if someone really wanted one.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Don't people need ID to get welfare or other social services? I would think an ID wouldn't be too difficult to get if someone really wanted one.

If I'm not mistaken its actually required to register to vote.....just not required to actually vote at the polls.

just can't see why its such an issue to have one on you when you vote.....you needed it to register

[scottw]

Originally Posted by fishbones
Don't people need ID to get welfare or other social services? I would think an ID wouldn't be too difficult to get if someone really wanted one.

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

If I'm not mistaken its actually required to register to vote.....just not required to actually vote at the polls.

not so sure about that

October 14, 2008

Just this week, a federal judge ordered [1] Ohio’s top elections official to verify the identity of newly registered voters by matching them with other government documents. The very next day a 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals set aside the federal judge’s order [2] on verifying registrations.

Further igniting the voter fraud/voter registration debate was the news that a national community organizing group is being investigated in at least 14 states and several swing states for massive irregularities. This news would make headlines anyway, but what made it worse was that Barack Obama was a key player in this organization, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now .

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now [3] (ACORN) is a community-based organization that advocates for low and moderate income families founded in 1970 by Wade Rathke and Gary Delgado. Rathke [8], one of the most powerful hard-Left activists in America, is a former member of a radical 1960s group, the Students for a Democratic Society [9] (SDS). The Weathermen terrorist group split off from the SDS in 1969. ACORN [10] says its priorities include better housing and wages for the poor, more community development investment from banks and governments, and better public schools.

ACORN is also known for its voter registration efforts.
This year alone ACORN has registered 1,315,037 voters.(it's unclear whether Acorn was checking ID's)

Although the organization prides itself for its registration efforts, it also has a long history of scandal. In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members [12] were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert “Red” Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for “Operation Big Vote” — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.

On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 [13] “potentially fraudulent” voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006 [14], 20,000 to 35,000 [14] questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials [15] in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera [16] that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted [17] for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees [18] in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.

And, that was just Missouri.

This year there have been several accusations of fraud against ACORN. Over a dozen states are investigating the organization already. Here is a complete list of the ongoing investigations:

North Carolina — State Board of Elections officials have found [19] at least 100 voter registration forms with the same names over and over again. The forms were turned in by ACORN. Officials sent about 30 applications to the state Board of Elections for possible fraud investigation.

Ohio — The New York Post [20] reported that a Cleveland man said he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times. The complaints have sparked an investigation by election officials into the organization, whose political wing has supported Barack Obama. Witnesses have already been subpoenaed [21] to testify against the organization.

Nevada — Authorities raided [22] the headquarters of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now on Tuesday October 7, 2008, after a month-long investigation. The fraudulent voter registrations included the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up.

Indiana — More than 2,000 voter registration forms [23] filed in northern Indiana’s Lake County filled out by ACORN employees turned out to be bogus. Officials also stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.

Connecticut — Officials are looking into a complaint [24] alleging ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registration cards in Bridgeport. In one instance, an official said a card was filled out for a 7-year-old girl [25], whose age was listed as 27. 8,000 cards were submitted in Bridgeport.

Missouri — The Kansas City election board is reporting 100 duplicate applications and 280 with fake information. Acorn officials agreed [26] that at least 4% of their registrations were bogus. Governor Matt Blunt condemned [27]the attempts by ACORN to commit voter fraud.

Pennsylvania — Officials are investigating [28]suspicious or incomplete registration forms submitted [29] by ACORN. 252,595 voter registrations were submitted in Philadelphia. Remarkably, 57,435 were rejected — most of them submitted by ACORN.

Wisconsin — In Milwaukee ACORN improperly used felons [7] as registration workers. Additionally, its workers are among 49 cases of bad registrations sent to authorities for possible charges, as first reported by the Journal Sentinel.

Florida — The Pinellas County Elections supervisor says his office has received [30] around 35 voter registrations that appear to be bogus. There is also a question of 30,000 felons [31]who are registered illegally to vote. Their connections with ACORN are not yet clear.

Texas — Of the 30,000 registration cards ACORN turned in, Harris County tax assessor Paul Bettencourt says just more than 20,000 are valid. And just look at some of the places ACORN was finding those voters. A church just next door is the address for around 150 people. More than 250 people claim a homeless outreach center as their home address. Some listed a county mental health facility as their home and one person even wrote down the Harris County jail at the sheriff’s office [32].

Michigan — ACORN in Detroit is being investigated [33] after several municipal clerks reported fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications coming through. The clerk interviewed said the fraud appears to be widespread.

New Mexico – The Bernalillo County clerk has notified prosecutors that some 1,100 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in [34] by ACORN.
these are just the ones that were caught when the microscope was finally on, they've been at this for years

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

you can tell he was implying he was Holder, right?..

How did he demonstrate that if he didn't actually vote?

what he specifically asked the poll worker was..

“Do you have an Eric Holder, 50th Street?"

yes, that could imply to the poll worker that he was Eric Holder and was there to vote, but anyone could walk in and ask if they have anyone on their list at a particular address, I don't think it's illegal or lying.....does show just how pathetically easy it is to make a mess of the system...imagine if some organization(oh, say ACORN) was dedicated to making a mess of the system?


he demonstrated that it was very easy to walk into a polling place, ask if they had a name and an address and get a ballot by simply signing on the line, now in this case, if he had taken the ballot and voted(that woud be illegal), and if Holder had shown up at a later date there would be a contested ballot...if the name he asked for was a dead guy, there wouldn't be anyone to walk in later and try to vote under the same name and create a contested ballot...is this really that difficult to grasp?

the obvious irony is that he went to ask for Holder, the top law official in the land who adamantly opposes voter id.....outstanding

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

not so sure about that

I said it was required....didn't say it was actually followed.

I know HAVA requires all absentee registrations to include a copy of ID when submiiting them.

Again, requiring it and actually enforcing it are 2 different things.....

I also think having a 3rd party doing Voter Registrations is a stupid concept and helps lead to issues like these.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I said it was required....didn't say it was actually followed.

I know HAVA requires all absentee registrations to include a copy of ID when submiiting them.

Again, requiring it and actually enforcing it are 2 different things.....

I also think having a 3rd party doing Voter Registrations is a stupid concept and helps lead to issues like these.

HAVA was signed in 2002 and look at the concerted attempt to undermine the voting process that took place in 2008. Cloward-Piven Strategy applied to voter registration I imagine.

also: HAVA- The specifics of implementation have been left up to each state, which allows for varying interpretations of the Federal law. (some states simply require a signed affadavit in lieu of a picture id)

ACORN is still in business operating under a different name and despite the obvious organized attempt to undermine the process you still have many fighting voter id requirements...this will be a record year for voter fraud and all sorts of claims of voting irregularities, particularly if you know who is ousted

bottom line is, like you stated... the solution is very simple

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

the obvious irony is that he went to ask for Holder, the top law official in the land who adamantly opposes voter id.....outstanding

But he wasn't able to vote - which is the whole point (the same w/the Acorn examples).

W/Acorn, they were paying people by the # of folks they got to register. There is no indication any of them actually voted. There has never been any indication of wide spread voter fraud - never (Although I don't know how that hasn't happened in New Orleans or Chicago).

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

But he wasn't able to vote - which is the whole point (the same w/the Acorn examples).

the poll worker clearly "implies"(your word) that he very well could have

the only thing that stopped him was his honesty?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

W/Acorn, they were paying people by the # of folks they got to register. nice, paying to undermine America


There is no indication any of them actually voted. how would you know? There has never been any indication of wide spread voter fraud - never (Although I don't know how that hasn't happened in New Orleans or Chicago).

huh???

[spence]

Acorn? Oh Jesus....

The simple question is what's more likely, voter fraud or voter disenfranchisement?

O'keef's vid is nothing more than another stunt to feed the crack heads.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Acorn? Oh Jesus....

The simple question is what's more likely, voter fraud or voter disenfranchisement?

O'keef's vid is nothing more than another stunt to feed the crack heads.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Spence, are you saying that verifying identity at the voting booth will cause "disenfranchisement"? Can you please explain?

I have to show id at the doctors office, at my kids' school, when I buy prescriptions aty the pharmacy, when I get on a plane. WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL? When asked to verify id, my rights (specifically my right to vote) is being protected, my rights aren't being violated.

It never occurred to me to feel disenfranchised, whatever the hell that is...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

huh???

nice, paying to undermine America How if someone lies on a registration form is that undermining America if they didn't vote? Weren't some of the names obviously fake?


how would you know? - Well, how would you know that they voted? We've heard many stories about Acorn and voter fraud. I would have thought you could pull up many articles about how numerous folks got arrested for voter fraud related to the Acorn registrations?

[Piscator]

Clean it up, it's simple. Require an ID to vote. Common sense...........